Because Robby has a lot of orange/red on him, the spots you see on his tail could very well be a slight colorchange. But, it could also be a "blood-spot". I wouldn't worry too much if it isn't growing any....


Sure, you can scrub the algae off of the walls while the fish are in there. Heck, some goldies like it when thats happening cause they can swim around and munch up the bits that are floating around in the water.

The pH difference is nothing to worry about unlesss you were to perform a 100% waterchange on them. 50% or less and your only talking a change of 0.1ppm. That is pretty insignificant as far as pH fluctuatiuons go.



By the way, I didn't realize my AIM was off for those days. I'm back on now if you want to chat!


Paul

Update for anyone who may have been following my post:

30 days of salt @ .3%; scoped and still have chilo.

Going to try slowly increasing the salinity to .8% and hold at that level for 2 weeks. Following same treatment protocol as fantailfan1 and toothy.

Currently @ .4%.

Johnny's fin rot is healing nicely.

Wish us luck!

I'll post again w/developments, if any!

Oh chico, I'm so glad you're keeping us updated!! I was wondering how you and your boys were doing!!

Please keep us posted as I am very interested to see how this works out for all of us!! Hopefully good news all around!!

Have you guys checked out my new videos of the Chilo I have in my tanks? Its in the Chilo thread: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=12847

I got all-up-in-their-faces with my new scope and got some pretty good clips. These guys are elusive since I have all the other micromonsters to sift through to even find one or two Chilos. So, its painstakingly slow moving progress there. But, I AM building a little library of all the other beasties and will post or start a thread with the shots I get.....

Hey Toothy, LOVE THE MUSIC!!

Hahahaha, Its habit for me to turn music on when Im scoping. It helps me from not getting too ansy from sitting perfectly still for sooo long!

One song was Primus and the other is an old punk song from the early 80's. I may be getting older, but I sure like a good fast beat to jam to.........

Good shots, btw. Are you using a video camera, vs me using the video function on my digital camera??

Yeah, I'm using AVI format on my camera. I dont think the pentax zoom lens on it is suitable for mounting to the eyepiece either. So, I use a tripod set-up right next to the scope and when I find something for a picture, I swing the eyepiece around so the its sits just under the pre-positioned camera.


It works pretty well.

Now, if I could just figure out how to get these things to stop and smile for the camera, I could get some REALLY clear shots of them. Since I can't use the flash with any efficacy, things can get kinda blurry in pictures.........

Excellent videos!! So clear and the music is great. Bet you're loving that new scope, huh?

As of Friday, Jan 6, we're at .5%.

Today I had noticed the boys were sleeping a lot. Between 1pm and 4pm they were at the bottom of the tank most of the time. I was putting away the Christmas decorations so I did not spend a lot of time in there during the afternoon, but each timeI checked in they were sleeping! I thought this was quite odd.....

So at about 5pm I notice they are up and about. Johnny is being his usual crazy self. Robby seems a bit subdued. I fed them some gel food; they ate like there was no tomorrow.

HOWEVER, I noticed Robby was clamping his dorsal and pelvic fins. Even while he was eating. As he was eating, he would chew chew chew and just let himself slowly float to the bottom. Still eat....then when he needed more food he's move around, find it, then just sit down and chew. The sitting never lasted very long because Johnny would bother him and they would do their little boxing moves (swimming circles around each other).

I just checked on him again, and he's swimming around but the dorsal and pelvic fins are still clamped.

No other visible symptoms.

Tank params are:
ammo - 0
nitrIte - 0
nitrAte - ~10
ph - 8.0
temp - 68F
salt currently at .5%


Any thoughts on this? Fantailfan1 and Toothy...what physical characteristics did your fishies display while increasing the salt??

I was planning on doing a little cleaning in the tank tonight and upping the salt to .6%....maybe I should wait until tomorrow and see what happens??

Also....is it too early to contemplate getting a new 10g and just treat in that rather than trying to do this in the existing infested chilo tank?? I am just still seeing too many fin flicks and yawns for my own comfort zone....and now this fin clamping is either too coincidental or an effect of the salt.

Thanks, everyone.

Our situations are a bit different as I am treating them in 2 10 gallon tanks. For example, this is what I will do tonight:

Add X amount of salt for the day (we're going up to 0.7% tonight) to dechlorinated, temp matched tap water. Move the airstone over to the new tank (I run it under extremely hot tap water before adding it to the new tank.) Then I move the fish over. I then empty out the old tank, PP it and rinse several time with hot water then leave it out to dry.

So far the only thing I've noticed is right after I move them, Big D's (of course, my lil wimp ) tail and fins get dilated vessels. This lasts for about 2 hours after the move. I usually feed them at some point during that time to make sure they are still eating and acting fine.

So far so good. They seem to be handling the salt very well. *knocks on wood* When we were using the MG/F formulations, they became very inactive and started spending lots of time at the surface. Then, the real kicker, when I threw food in, no one moved. For me that was a red flag as my fish ALWAYS want to eat. That's when I freaked out and moved them back over to the other tank with no MG/F.

So your fish ahve been at 0.5% since yesterday and just now one is clamping his fins? Hmmm . . .. I'll ahve to leave the upping the salt thing to toothy.

Good luck and hang in there!! This is such a long process isn't it?

Its probably not much to worry about. Your describing Spuds activities as he was being brought up to 0.8%.

I think they are still acclimating (as they should be) to the constant increases in salinity. Even though it stabilizes for like 20 hours at a time, they are sill being exposed to higher and higher levels, daily. So, thier bodies are probably still working to get use to it. I think once you get to 0.8% and it remains there, you should see some improvement. Otherwise, as long as they show an appetite, they are doing very well.......


Spud has now been at 0.8% for two full days and he has not acted better since the Chloramines T almost cured him. He doesn't even wait for his freeze dried krill to hit the bottom. Aaaaand, hes taking them from my fingers again!


I think its working.....

Sunday, January 8 and we're at....

.6%

Performed a 50% water change and increased the salt level accordingly.

Robby is still sitting on the bottom; probably 50% of the time. While he's sitting, dorsal and pelvic fins still clamped. When he gets up to swim, fins are in normal position.

I also noticed a small spot of pink/red at the base of his tail. Nothing alarming...but it's there; I will assume this is in response to the salt levels??

Johnny is acting absolutely fine.

Both fish are eating ravenously, so that shows me they are doing well, overall. While Robby ate today, he did NOT float to the bottom as he did yesterday. Instead, he swam around as he ate....so I think that's pretty good.

I'll continue to watch as the day progresses.....

Spuds got a small patch of pink like you described on Robby. That would make me think that it was from stress as well......

Sounds like all is going well. I hope its a trend that continues.


By the way, I got a really up close pic of my strain with ome of its morphological characteristics. I posted it in the thread over at KP. Check it out.

Now that was a truly impressive video. I have NEVER seen my chilo do that!

Wow.....I hate to even say this, but: it would be cool if I could catch MY chilo doing that! HA!!

Anyway.....an update for all.

If you read in earlier posts, Robby started to exhibit some clamping and bottom sitting. This evening Johnny joined in on the clamping.

Also, they are both "breathing" really fast, as if they're either trying to get something out of their mouths. Imagine your ears are popped and you constantly open and close your mouth to unpop them - that's what my little guys are looking like.

We'll see how they are in the morning, and if all is well thoughout the day, we'll go to .7% tomorrow (Monday) evening.

Monday, January 9 and we're at:

.7%


Hard to tell how they feel....Robby is still bottom sitting half the time. Johnny is more active (but Johnny was always more active). They are eating just fine.

I hope to bring them up to .8% tomorrow; the quicker I do this, the quicker I can end it.

I'll do some scoping at the end of the week to see what's going on.

Ain't that the truth? This is going to be a loooooong 2 weeks!

My fishies are having some pooping issues.

They are pooping, and it seems like a lot! This morning I found a very long poop, probably a good couple inches in length, wrapped around a plant. It was clear casing w/light brown inside, then you could see the casing was empty in some spots....then it tapered off to what looked like stringy fuzz.

I have been feeding them twice a day; mostly omega one pellets and gel food. They haven't had peas in a week. I am choosing not to fast them during this salting process just because I don't want to stress them out any more.....I'm gonna give them peas this afternoon.

Think it has to do w/the salt??

Fantailfan1 or Toothy - your fishies exhibiting this pooping at all?

When I got home from work last night I could not believe all the poo floating around in their tank!! It's especially bad since there is no filter in the tank--just an airstone to push it around!

I have also noticed empty casing and stringy fuzzy stuff--mostly over the past few days (maybe since 0.6% and higher). I would guess since your fihs and my fish are both doing this now it has something to do with the salt. We'll see what toothless thinks. . . . .

Still at .7%. Robby is just bottom sitting most of the day. Johnny is active. Both are eating.

I have noticed Robby's left eye looks to be protruding a bit. I'm not sure if it's my eyes making a mountain out of a mole hill, or if it indeed is a problem. It simply looks like it's sticking out more than his right.

I took a picture; I hope someone else can tell me what they see??
(sorry if it's so big....I had to get a big shot for the visual)


Also....you think I can just stop here at .7%? These guys are just not liking this at all.....

I see what you mean from the picture. Sometimes I look at D and think the same thing. It often depends on the direction he's looking in. If Robby looks up, does the eye seem to go back in?

I just wanted to add (since I lost the time to edit the above) that it's really hard to tell if his eye is protruding, or if it's just the way he is moving his eye. In this pic it looks protruding. In other pics it looks okay....I've been studying him for a while and I really can't tell.

Poor guy is just sitting on the bottom.....

Sorry for unnecessary posts....I'm just a little overly cautious at this point!

Fantailfan1, are your fishies acting fine? Or did they at one time do a lot of bottom sitting while you were increasing the salt?


This is just buggin' me.....

Well they were doing fine until last night. D has started to do a lot of bottom sitting. But there is less redness in his tail today. If I remember correctly (and, honestly all these treatments are kinda starting to run together), he was doing a lot of bottom sitting witht the MG/F combinations.

The thing I really watch is their eating. As long as they are eating decently I try not to worry too much. I'm with you though--I don't like the bottom sitting either but perhaps once they get more acclimated to the high % of salt they will be better. I think toothy went thru that with Spud--less activity for a while but then once they were up to 0.8% for a few days he became more active (Spud, not toothy ).

Spud still clamps a bit. Not TOO much though. He also has moments where he doesn't seem to want to eat but he hasn't left any uneaten for longer than 10 minutes though. Just so that you don't feel alone seeing this......


As for increasing the salt, let them ride with 0.7% for a day or two longer. Then try to increase again. I had to do that with Spud at 0.6%.

I don't see any popeye in the pic. What I DO see is that the eye on the left is looking towards the camera. Since they don't have independently movable eyeballs, one has to give way to the others movements. So, the eye on the right is looking a bit backwartds becasue the eye on the left is looking forwards. At least, this is what I can tell from the pic. You'll know within a matter of a couple days if the swelling is increasing......


All in all, I'd say they don't sound to be doing all that bad. Clamping and bottom sitting could certainly have something to do with them not ever having been in this level of salinity before. I'm sure its irritating.


I am very eager to hear about your scoping results........


Hang in there.

Alright - thanks for the words of encouragement. If I can get a moment, I will scope tonight and post results.

I'll leave them at .7% for today and may increase to .8% tomorrow.




Don't know what I'd do without ya, Toothy!!

I scoped last night and still found chilo.

Robby is just bottom sitting most of the time. He has a favorite corner; Johnny will come over and bump him, but Robby doesn't really move too much. Both his eyes look as if they're protruding now. And his little nostriles (if that's what you call em) are both rather erect (rather than lying a little flat like Johnny's).

I fed them this morning. Robby goes after the food, but doesn't go after it w/the gusto he used to have.

On the other hand, Johnny sits a little bit of the time and clamps the fins here and there...but he's doing great compared to Robby.

Now, I am the control experiment here...between myself, fantailfan1 and toothy. Both of them are increasing the salt levels in a bare tank, performing water changes daily. I, on the other hand, am treating in a fully stocked tank with gravel, fake plants and a full-blown filter. It is my unexperienced opinion this is not the optimal conditions to treat, however at the time it is what I chose. I certainly hope those chilo are not hiding in there throughout these upcoming two weeks. Because if I have to salt again in a bare tank, I don't think I can handle it (or my poor fishies!!) Just my thoughts.....


I'll be increasing the salt today to .8% after a little vacuuming of all the poop....let's hope Robby can hang.

We're now at .8%.

I noticed, while cleaning out the tank, Robby's face is a bit puffy. The area below his eyes...his cheeks....are puffed out.

He was moving around some and eating so I feel somewhat okay.

I'm crossing my fingers this works....let the two weeks begin!

I'm sure you are all thinking I'm just a little bit obsessed about this....but I took another pic of Robby's eyes today and I have to say, even tho it's blurry, you can see his eyes are protruding. You can also see the chubbiness of his cheeks.


Any thoughts??

Alright, after confirmation with toothless, we believe Robby has popeye.


So......


He's now been transferred to his own little home - a 66 liter toy bin! HA! I took the toys out and scrubbed it out really well. Added 10 gallons of water back into it, temp matched and dechlor'd, reduced the salt down to ~.7% (b/c he was in .8%) and added Maracyn. Also rigged up a bubble wand. Hard to believe I had all the supplies right here - didn't have to go out to get anything.

He is not looking very good. I added some food after the transfer, but he has no interest. Not sure if he can't see it? Or doesn't want it??

I am not too familiar with popeye so I'll have to do some reading up....

Johnny, who is in the established 10g is doing just fine @ .8%. Just a bottom sit here and there and a clamp every now and then.

I'll post more tomorrow. Let's hope Robby can get thru this....

I am in need of some serious help, please. I totally messed this one up....

I transferred Robby to a rubbermaid bin last night; he's in 10 gallons of water salted up to ~.7% with a dose of Maracyn. The water I added to the bin was temp matched to the original tank, which was ~70F. I set the bin on the floor in the same room the original tank is in.

This morning at 10.30am I notice the water in the bin is a bit chilly.....I grab the thermometer and it reads:

63F




I had just gotten back from the petstore with a 50W Hydor heater, and I immediately put it in the bin.

Robby is just bottom sitting, dorsal fin is ERECT, and he's breathing very very slowly.

I had put three pellets in the bin last night for him, and he must have ate them because this morning they are gone.

The only params I checked in the bin are:
ammo = 0
nitrIte = 0
pH = 8.0

Questions are:

1. Should I go and buy a 10 gallon tank? Does it provide more insulation than the rubbermaid bin?

2. Do I follow the rule of slowly increasing the temp 2degrees an hour til it reaches about 78F?

3. Would I be okay in taking out a gallon of water and putting in a gallon of water that is a bit warmer??

Any advice is appreciated.

Ok Laura until Toothy gets back to you the only thing I can suggest is to slowly raise the temp back up. No more than 1-2 degrees an hour.
I am not familar with the situation Toothy is directing you in so I will let him continue with that.
I don't think that 63F is enough to throw him into hybernation (but I could be wrong), I think it is closer to the 50's.

Other than that I wouldn't change the treatment. I am sure that Toothy should be on later today though.

Alright....I have taken my many hours of online time here at koko's and hopefully put it to good use!! Experts, please let me know how I did.



I believe the fluctuation in temps in the rubbermaid bin (hospital tank) is caused by the bin being placed on the floor, rather than on a dresser/stand, etc.

So, I went to the pet store (twice!) and purchased a 10g tank w/hood and lights; hydor 50w heater; bubble wand; air pump; airline tubing; digital thermometer.

This new hospital set up is now located on a desk in our 4th bedroom.

I have filled it up accordingly (measured out 8 gallons) and I have it salted at ~.5%. I have one dose of Maracyn in there (day 2 of Maracyn). Also set up in the heater, bubble wand and thermometer.

Currently the temp is at 68F (it was at 62F this morning). So 6 degree increase in 5 hours seems pretty safe to me.

I transferred Robby into his new digs. He is moving a lot more than he was. His fins are erect for the most part. I put in a few pellets but no interest initially. About 10 minutes later the pellets were gone. Yeah!

His eyes are not looking any better. Here is another pic for your review. I believe this pic shows really well the diameters of both eyes.






I plan on increasing his temp up to around 80F.

This is a hospital tank with no filtration; therefore water changes will be done according to the test results - preferably on a daily basis.

Since I am treating him with Maracyn, and possibly performing 100% water changes on a daily basis, do I just dose once per day? Or do I double and triple dose, etc etc, as I am changing the water rather than letting it sit in there as directed? (does that make sense??)


Please cross ur fingers for my little guy....

Looks good except for one thing. NO filter.
I know that Toothy and Daryl do treatments with no filters but I am not familar on how they do it. But I do believe it is 100% water change daily. Let's see what they say.

Your spot on with everything.


100% changes, temperature matched and double dosed with a detox/dechlor and salted at appropriate level. Once the waterchange is completed and hes in the tank again, dose the powdered maracyn as per your gallonage (8 gallons=80% of a full dose). Repeat daily.


As for raising heat, its generally not recommended to go any faster than what your doing now. 6 degrees every 12 hours should be ok.....


Sorry he came down with popeye. It truly is an unexpected turn. BUT, erythromycin is an excellent drug for treating problems with the kidneys. Since the kidneys are what controls osmoregulation ANd is what is infected during bouts of popeye and possibly dropsy, perhaps his kidneys werent functioning at the needed rate for keeping bacterial infections at bay.

All in all, he is very lucky to have you as a keeper. Your doing everything you can at this point.



Paul

Oh, chico, you are doing such a great job with all of this!!

Don't you feel like you've learned soooo much in these past few months? I sure do!!

Keep up the great work. Robby is very lucky to have you watching over him so closely!

Good luck to you and Robby. D, S, and I all have our appendages crossed for you both!

Thank-you all for your encouraging words. It's because of people like you I can actually make it thru the day!!

I spent a little time with Robby and he's doing pretty good, considering. He's eagerly exploring his new digs. Looks like he may have lost a scale or two, but it's hard to tell since I don't have the light on.

Which leads me to the first of my three questions:

1. Shall I leave the light ON or OFF during these 5 days of Maracyn treatment? The directions don't say, and I've treated before with lights on. However I would think lights on would hurt Robby's eyes.


2. Toothy.....now that he is in a hospital tank, what should I do w/the salt level? Should I get it down to .3% during the next day or two and leave it there?


3. If my water parameters are in check (i.e. ammo-0, nitrIte-0) do I have to perform a water change? Remember, no filter here. Can I possibly go two days without a water change (at the absolute most)? Just exploring all my options.


We have to remember that this entire project started because we have chilo in the main tank - which is still housing Johnny who is salted at .8%.


I'm going out tomorrow night for drinks w/my friends - and let me tell you I'm gonna have a few!!!

You deserve it girl!! Have a couple for me while you're at it! Too bad we don't live closer so when this is all done we could go out together!!

I've never treated with Maracyn so i don't know about the lights. Sorry can't help ya more--I'll leave that to toothy and I'll stick to being your personal cheerleader!!

Laura I don't see why you can't leave the lights on even for a bit. Unless they are super bright.

They are two 25watt bulbs. Same light set-up as his other tank.


I was just concerned the lights will bother his eyes.......I'll turn them on tomorrow and act as if it's a regular day in his schedule.

Saturday, Jan 14

Robby Update:
In hospital tank (75F, no filter) currently salted at .3%. 4th day on Maracyn. Looks to be 100% better.


Johnny Update:
In main chilo infested (as of earlier this week) tank (68F, filter). Started to exhibit signs of pop eye, no interest in food and extended bottom sitting yesterday. Immediately started swapping out salted water for fresh water. Started a 5-day treatment of Maracyn. At ~.55% salt this morning. (Was at .8% for 3 days.) I plan on going to the store to purchase a heater for his tank to increase temp to ~75F. Also planning on reducing the salt % until I see signs of improvent.


Tomorrow is Robby's last day of Maracyn. Johnny's last day on Maracyn will be Tuesday.

My fishies just can't handle the high salt concentration.



I will scope the tanks tomorrow (sunday) as my husband is working today. Can't do it w/the kids hanging on me. So.....I presume my further actions are dependent on the results of the scope?


Like....when can put these guys back together?
What should I do w/the salt %?
Should I just transfer the fishies to a new tank all together and wipe out the existing tank (although if there is still chilo it'll prob be w/the fish)?

I have no idea what to do now......please help!

Update for those following:

Robby is in the hospital tank and doing good. I noticed he was a bit clamped this morning, so I will keep an eye out...but he's eating like a hog and swimming along fine. He seems so calm in this tank. He just swims around very lazily, no pacing that I've seen....looks very relaxed.


Johnny is in the main tank and he's salted down to ~.4%. His pop eye has gone away. Temp is a bit above 75F. Johnny is the exact opposite of Robby in that Johnny swims as if he's overdosed on speed! At times it's as if he's trying to fight his own reflection. This morning I saw him trying to jam himself behind the heating element (or whatever he was trying to do) - over and over again! When I fed him gel food this morning, he ate a couple pieces like mad, then we picked up the other pieces, chewed them a bit then spit them out. Chewed, then spit, chewed then spit. I don't know if the chilo is in his gills and is bothering him, or if it's the effects of coming off the salt........or what?

I did scope the main tank last night and did not find any chilo. I only scoped one sample, so not finding any chilo doesn't mean anything to me at the moment. I will continue to scope.


So the plan of action is once Johnny's tank is salted the same as Robby's, to put Johnny into the hospital tank and sterilize the main tank. Basically start over with a new cycle. It is my hope that the chilo doesn't come over w/the fish...but who knows. Since the fish couldn't stay salted at .8% for such a long time, I am not sure what the results will be.

One thing I would like to say is that it took me a long time to get up to the .8%. I did not go .1% per day. It was more like .1% every two days. So we can look at it in two ways:
(1) the longer salting period at the slightly lower levels could have wiped out the chilo
(2) the longer it took me to salt allowed the chilo to acclimate itself to the levels, thus continuing to grow in population
Double edged sword we got here.

It's possible I may have to try this salting process again once the fish are feeling much better. I'd like them to recover as long as possible before subjecting them to the high salt levels again.

Until the next post, I continue to learn......

My original plan was to place both fish into the hospital tank. However, after thinking about it for quite some time, and due to the lack of sterilizing supplies, I moved Robby back into the main cycled tank with Johnny.


Here is the update:


Robby is not eating. He's not sitting around clamped; however he's "hovering in space". He's stayed in the same section of the tank for the last 12 hrs. Also, he looks as if he's constantly chewing ; and I mean constantly. I dropped in some gel food. Johnny ate it up. In the meantime, Robby is chewing chewing chewing the food....then about 5 mins later it comes out and he seems as if he's oblivious to it all. Johnny sees the spit-out food and gobbles it up.


I drop in more food for Robby, literally lands on his head; doesn't seem to care.


What's going on?

Water params are perfect: ammo - 0, nitrIte - 0, nitrAte - 10, pH - 8.0, salted at .4%, heated up to 78F. Dosing w/Maracyn b/c of the pop eye.


I have still yet to find chilo; both fish are NOT pacing; no yawning. However, as written above, Robby seems totally out of it.


edit: I haven't seen food color poop in a couple days. It's usually opaque and stringy.


Any thoughts?? Please??

Laura I know Paul is really working with you and fantail on this chilo thing.

What food's are you feeding, just so I am clear. How long is he chewing? Are you able to look in his mouth and make sure nothing is stuck in there?

Feeding him gel food this morning. He chews the food for about 5 mins then it comes out in crumbs.

He's also just hanging around "chewing" all the time.


He's opening and closing his mouth pretty good...I don't see anything in there.


How would I go about physically checking?

You can gently lift him out of the water, but hold him above the water incase he slips out of your hand.
Once out of the water, a fish will automatically open his mouth wide, you then can look inside. If you have another person or can set up a light to give you a better peak is great.

I am not sure why he wouldn't be eating. I know that with parasites they spit food, has he been doing better? How long has it been since he has eaten good?

Not really sure if I can offer more for you, sorry. You can try hand feeding him, see if he'll eat some for you.

Thanks for your input Laurie.



I am sad to say....Robby has passed to the big pond in the sky.

Kind of quick, I must say. I saw him at 11am doing seemingly well (except for the chewing). Went to pick up Kenny from preschool. We had lunch, etc etc. Took Gwen up for her nap at 1.30pm; checked in on the fishies to say 'night and found Robby floating between the intake tube and the heating element. I am certain he did not die there, rather floated there after he passed.

Never did I think he was in such bad condition that death was immenent.



What can we learn from this? I am not sure yet......it's possible the high salt concentration in combination with the low tank temp (68-70F) created havoc on Robby's already weakened immune system and he was never able to recoup. It's weird because he had a few good days in there when I thought for sure all was well.



On a lighter note, Johnny seems to be fine. I will watch like a hawk. He's still salted at ~.4%. No chilo found yet.


And the saga continues.......

As I pmed you...........I am so sorry Laura. May he be at peace and whole now. Take care

OH NO LAURA! That's awful! I was praying that they would both pull through eventually! I'm so sorry

Thanks, Brittany.


Yeah - it's really hard to believe. I never even thought Robby was going to pass. Ever.

Even when I thought something was wrong w/these guys, it was because of Johnny. Robby never really showed the symptoms as Johnny did.



I haven't yet "disposed" of Robby....my 3yo son won't let me. I think "God" will have to come and take Robby away late tonight.....