First, Hello to everyone here. I don't know what I would do without Koko's site!! This forum has not only saved my two orandas, it has also saved my sanity many times . Everyone here has always been so very helpful.

My new problem is with one of my black moors (Black Eyed Peas)...I've noticed that she seems to be hanging her little head. She stays on the bottom and her tail is drooping. Is this what they call "dropsy"? If so, how do I treat it? Is it like the swim bladder problems I've had with my two orandas? I sure hope not, as that is a life long sentence.

My tank (75 gallons) is fully cycled and all parameters are very good! My other fish in the tank (1 large redcap oranda, 2 veil tails, another black moor, 3 tiny albino catfish and 1 Japanese catfish) are all healthy and getting along fine.

It still amazes me that camaraderie that transpires among these beautiful fish. They all gang up and "assist" which ever one is feeling sick. They still help my "Miracle Baby" oranda. Whenever I have to remove her from the tank for a day or two to recycle her swimbladder, and I put her back into the tank, they all literally come up to her and give her kisses and hugs!!! Then, they will help her acclimate herself back into the tank and make sure that she gets her share of the feeding!! My husband couldn't believe it until he watched it for himself!! He was like..."wow, that's amazing!!" They will also come up to the tank wall and give me kisses, especially if they don't feel too good.

That's definitely happening with my little black moor. She seems to be joining the gang when it's feeding time, but the rest of the day, she just hangs out in the back behind the ship I have in the tank. One of the veil tails has become her guardian. She will hang back there and keep BEP company and warm.

Does anyone know what might be wrong with her and what I can do to help???

I'm very "fish minded"...if you have read any of my other posts, you know that I'm still feeding one of my little orandas (Angel Baby) by hand twice a day. I make up a mash of strained baby food peas and tuna. Then, I feed her with an eye dropper. I thought that I was going to lose her back in February, but she's still hanging in there with me. She has her very own 10 gallon tank, and when the parameters in that tank deviate the slightest, she gets put into my 10 gallon hospital tank until the other tank straightens out.

Anyway, I'm willing to try anything to help my poor little moor. Can anyone offer me any suggestions?

As always, I so very grateful and thankful to all those kind folks who post here. Take care and blessings to all you and your fish.

Here's a second thought...my friend just came over and looked at my poor little fishy, and she said, "maybe it's having babies!!". I've had all these fish since January and have never seen any breeding. Will they breed? I do have two black moors, but I have no clue if they are male and female or what they are. Do they bare live babies or eggs? Do the other fish eat the babies? I don't really know very much about the black moors. How would I know if she was pregnant?

Just another thought. She's still heads down...but, she just ate a bit, so I'm not sure what I should do for her.

Thanks for listening (or reading). Take care e1.

TSK glad to see you!!

Also glad to hear Angel is still with us, you are doing awesome with her.

For the fish that is drooping her head, I have a few questions for clarification.
Is she drooping her head and her tail in the air?
Maybe describe it a little better if possible.
Also a pic if you can get one.

Drospy is a swelling with the scales sticking out (like pine cones do), so I dont' think this is what you are describing, correct me if I am wrong.
I also don't think it is pregnancy.
A female will fill with eggs and become very swollen and you will see the males chasing her around endlessly ramming her butt. She will then dispell the eggs and the male will do his thing. So again, don't think it is that.

I am thinking it could be another form of SBD or a parasite. So more info is needed to determine.
If you can please give us the params of the tank, you know how we like to make sure wer are not missing anything.

Hey, LaurieP...So excited to hear from you!! Hope that all is well and that you're not freezing yet.

My little baby is kind of acting a bit strange. She just keeps her nose to the ground, and yes, her tail is up in the air. But, it droops down. Even when she is swimming, her tail still droops down!?! Very odd.

As you know, I have two other fish with SWB problems, so I very familiar with those symptoms. Angel Baby (in the lonely tank...she's still with us, but is about 1/4 the size of the rest of the pack) and Miracle Baby, she also has SWB trouble, but has stayed with the "big boys". I have to take her out every once in a while and quarintine her from food for a day or so. That straightens her out, and off she goes back in the big tank with the others. You should see them when she comes back!! They're so excited!!

Anyway...I digress...My little black moor stays hiding in the back corner of the tank with her head down and her tail up. But, she doesn't "float" or rise up to the top like the other two always do. And, their tails never droop like this. When it is feeding time she will swim out and eat, but it's almost like she can't see the food too well. I have to drop is right on top of her, then she eat just fine. She also seems very "lethargic". One of the veil tails is "shadowing" her. He rides right along beside her and tries to keep her head above the ground. He will also hide in the back with her and "snuggle" up to her. He's not hurting her in any way, and she seems content to have him there. She doesn't seem like her scales are "sticking out" like pine cones. Although, it seems like there is a little bit more "gold" color showing through on the bottom (her belly). She doesn't appear to be quite a "velvety" as usual. Maybe her stomach is a bit swollen or distended.

As for my parameters, they are as follows: (Sorry I didn't include them in the first post...I should have known better...

Nitrate = 25
Nitrites = 0
Hardness = 25
Alkalinity = 80
PH = 7.5
Ammonia = .10

I was surprised at the Nitrates. I just tested it and say that they had spikes just a bit from the morning when the nitrates were 0! Don't quite understand that. Should I as a little "AmQuel"? Anyway, I've been testing the tank daily, and it has been very, very good...very close to perfect every time. Maybe by trying to make sure that she was eating today, maybe I overfeed them. Hmmmmm???

Also, I just noticed that Miracle Baby looks like she has a bright green ring around her eye!! Hmmm...Maybe it's just me. I'll keep a watch on it.

Anyway, I sure would appreciate any assistance that you can provide for me and little "Black Eyed Peas". She sure is a sweet thing and I hate to have anything happen to her.

Again, I very glad to hear from you. Hope and pray that all is well. Take care and God Bless...TSK

Can't say as I am freezing yet.........it takes alot for me to get cold. This fall weather is envigorating for me.

Ok, back to BEP, is her dorsal fin droopy? (that is the fin on top, just in case you didn't know).
Sometimes when a fish hangs the head down it can mean parasites or SBD, just a milder form of SBD.
Since she is lethargic, I wonder if she isn't harboring a "bug" of some kind and trying to fight it off??????

I would also tweak that water a bit and get the ammonia back to 0, I am assuming that the spike you refered to was nitrites not nitrates??? Correct me if I am wrong. (I know those 2 can confuse anyone).

You could be over feeding, with the ammonia showing a slight spike this would be evidence enough to support that. So maybe back off the food a bit.

I am still wondering about a parasite though, have you ever seen any flashing of any fish, or rubbing?

Good Morning...thank you for your kind reply. BEP is still the same this morning. It's hard to tell if her top fin is drooping, as she stays pretty much verticle (up and down). As well as I can tell...yes, her top fin is drooping, too. She still keeps her nose to the ground unless she is swimming for dinner time.

I know that this sounds strange, but she seems to be more "golden"...in other words, around the bottom of her body (underside) her scales looks gold. Some of the velvety look is gone and even the rings around her eyes look gold!??

Do you think that she has anything contagous? I just worry about my other fish. I've been battling with my two orandas for so long that I just don't want to loose any others.

As far as the tank...it is the nitrAtes that is spiked. The nitrItes are 0!! Should I add the AmQuel?? Do you have a better suggestion?

Again, I thank you for you kindness and hope that you have a very blessed day today and a mild fall season. TSK

Good morning to you as well.

When the nitrates spiked what did they get to?
And I would only add the Amequel with water changes. So that should be good. Remember with using Amequel you can get false ammonia readings. (i just like to remind people of this).

I am thinking that this could be parasites. I know that the fish isn't exhibiting the usual or most common symptoms, but I have read that a fish that does this could be having problems with a parasite.
(now my opinion may change after I know how high the nitrates got).

If it is parasites the fish are already exposed so treating that whole tank is a good idea. Aquarium salt and a product called Parasite Clear from jungle labs is a good all around anti-parasite med.
Salt the tank to 0.3% and keep it there for 2 weeks. Adding the parasite clear as directed. This will kill any "bug" that is in there.
You'll just have to do small water changes daily and add back the salt and med to make sure you are vacuuming as well.

Post back soon.

I am hoping that our fall is a mild one, it is getting ready to be colder this week with rain on and off. So we are in full swing..........

Thanks for your quick response. I just tested the water again. The nitrates look like they are between 40 and 60 now (showed 25-30 last night). That's using the strips to test. When I use the liquid to test it registers lower, around 20. So I'm a bit confused. My nitrites are still showing zero with both tests.

I will do a water change tonight when my husband gets home and I'll run out tomorrow to see if I can find the Parasite Clear. Do most pet store carry this? I've seen "Jungle Labs" products at out Home Depot (mostly pond products), but I'm not sure I've seen this brand at our pet stores. I'll hunt tomorrow.

Also, I'll add the salt today. How do you test the salt? Is that considered the "hardiness" on the test strips? I've never seen a liquid test kit for salt..N02? We have well water, so water tends to test quite hard. We add quite a bit of salt to our softener (about 90 lbs per month). That's the water that I use for my tank (directly from the faucet, not the well).

Out weather here is beautiful right now (around 75-80 degrees). I've told my husband we can do 'NO, whinning"! We've been so very fortunate down here with all the hurricanes around us this year. We are totally blessed in our little corner (knock on wood and thank God). We still have about 5 weeks left in hurricane season, but so far so good. Hope that all is well. Thanks again. TSK

Oh that is right, I forgot you are down in "hurricane alley". I am glad you haven't had any bad ones hit you.

I have found that the drop tests are more accurate than the strips, why I don't exactly know so I would use them, however I would try and get them under 20, around 10 is nice just to see if the fish does better with lower nitrates.
Sometimes high nitrates can effect and aggravate SBD and cause the fish to "float" a little or alot. I have a fish that is my "nitrate reader", any time it is around 40 he floats. My pain in the rear fish he is. But I love him so whatcha gonna do but keep them happy.

I would think that finding the parasite clear at the lfs will be easy, most have it.

As for testing the salt there is tests out there (however I have never found one). It isn't the hardness or any test on the master kit, you will have to look at the lfs. You want a salinity test for freshwater. Make sure the clerk doesn't sell you something to read a saltwater tank with. That is totally different and the readings you would get could harm the fish.
Basically I just do the math, 1 tsp per gallon of water for 0.1%. You want to run the tank at 0.3% for 2 weeks. To get to the 0.3%, you need to do this slowly over 36 hours. Every 12 hours add 1 tsp per gallon until you have done this 3 times...........viola you are at 0.3%.
Now when changing water out, you will have to be precise on how many gallons because you will be removing that much salt. So you will have to add it back in. Once you are past the initial "salt dosing" you can add all 3 tsp (or 1 tblsp) to the new water to have it match what is in the tank.
Make sense? I know it sounds confusing but really it isn't.

I would focus on the nitrates and lowering them, just in case it is just a mild SBD. And also treat for the parasites to cover both bases. It won't hurt them if they don't have any, but research has reveled that 90% of fish from the lfs have a parasite or 2. Most people don't know they have them until their immunes system is compromised and then the symptoms appear.

Good luck keep me posted. I will be out this evening but I will check in tonight.

Oh my goodness...it's a good thing that I have an accounting degree to figure that one out!! JK!

I did the water change tonight. They're all swimming around like happy little campers...maybe they just needed a little fresca (fresh water). My last water change was about 3 weeks ago. So, they were due anyway. I'll keep up on it this week, though.

I added the salt. Whenever I put salt into the tank, they think it's dinner and start to head for it. After the first taste, they run off pretty quick, though. Does it hurt them if them snag one or two pieces of the salt? Just wondering.

The little one is moving around a bit tonight, but still not right. I'm going out to find the Parasite Clear tomorrow. Probably won't hurt Miracle Baby to have a good dose of it either.

Well, as always you are my savior. I'll keep you posted over the next few days and let you know the progress. Thanks again so very much and I hope that you have a terrific evening!!! TTFN...TSK

Well it is my pleasure to help you, and to chat.

I guess I should of been a little clearer with the salt that you disolve it in a bit of tank water before adding it to the tank........oops. It won't hurt them, but it can "sting" a bit, sorta like a jolt I guess would describe it.
I have done it in the past just put it in and then think.........oh gosh they aren't going to like that. So don't worry, but I would dissolve some in tank water before adding the rest. It is better that way.

You could be right about the fresh water, even if the params are ok, it is always a good idea to change some each week. I think of it as a "good bath" you know how you feel all refreshed afterwards.

Keep me posted and have a wonderful evening. I have to work tomorrow so I am going to enjoy my night.

Good Morning!!!

Little fishies look fairly good this morn...and, params look very good, too!! I'm still adding salt (good thinking about mixing it with tank water...duh ). Going out this morning to look for phishy med at phishy pharmacy.... we'll see how they do. Hope all is well. Have to get a few supplies any way...just when you think that it's save to go back into the water, along comes Wilma...teehee. Hope she blows out to sea...teehee.

Have a great day!!!

Take care.

I take it Wilma is a hurricane? I haven't watched the news in a couple days. Goodness I too hope she heads the other way.

Stay safe and keep us posted.

Thank you for your thoughts. They've said the Naples (where I live) is dead center of the projected cone...so, this one looks kind of ugly. I said, just when you thought it safe to go back into the water, along comes Wilma!!

Anyway, I have one quick question...in one of your earlier posts, you said that the AmQuel will give false ammonia readings. Does is increase or decrease the readings? If you know, it would be helpful in my monitoring the big tank.

Thanks again...it's going to get a bit busy down here this week, so will try to post when I can. I have a lot of animals to try and take care of. Have a blessed week and thanks as always!!

Hi Thai!

Long time no hear, just noticed you were on line! just been reading your thread, I'm sorry to hear you have another sicky . You're getting some good advice from Laurie, so I wont tread toes here, Just wanna say keep up those water changes, it's amazing what new water can do for a sick fish! My Esther has always been a healthy fish, and last month I was way busy with other stuff and I didn't get to clean her water for three weeks, she started to float, I really freaked out! Gave her a whopping big water change, and in two days she was back to her normal self, I've been keeping a real close eye on her since then, but she's fine (thank goodness!)

It's great to hear you've nursed Miracle Baby and she's still alive and kicking (flipping?) good luck with BEP

TSK you will be in our prayers that you weather the storm intact and ok.

Amequel can give false elevated readings on ammonia. How this works is it binds the ammonia to a non-toxic form, however it is still present, therefore it shows up on the tests.
I have not liked Amequel because of that. I want to know what is in there and what it is doing to the fish.

Hang in there and get everyone bunkered down. I will hope to talk with you soon again.