I was looking at my koi today and to my amazement his scales have really liteblue showing through is this normal for silver/orange/black koi?

Some fish maintain the light blue, but those normally aren't sankes/showas, so what you're probably seeing is sumi that has yet to come through. That blue area will likely eventually turn black.

You should take pictures every month so you can see how your fish developed. ^_^

thats a good idea

Some koi ussaly have a light blue in there scales
i think it's like goldfish they kinda change colors
when they grow but im not sure about this
im
not the best person when it coems to koi fish
but im learning im getting my second one next summer
o welll there pretty mutch like goldfish
...

Some koi, indeed, do have blue. But not the showa/sanke types (three color koi - red(orange)/black/white). That blue is a shadow of more black developing. Whether it will actually fully come out or not remains to be seen.


koi are actually very very different from goldfish. I never appreciated that until I got my three. Their behaviour (in a tank at least) is very different from my goldies, and their requirements are a lot more difficult to meet. But well worth the effort. ^_^

They seeem to be alot harder to take care of though?

groucho,

If you've taken pictures of your fish you should post them

It is true that what you are seeing is more than likely going to be black (sumi). I was told that my blue koi would turn black, but alas she is still blue! I am proud of her. She did try to turn though, last spring she had gotten a lot of black spotting but withen a month into the summer the black was gone! Here is a picture of her. Even though she probably isn't worth much, she cannot be shown, she is my pride and joy. She was my first koi from Japan.



This second picture is a pearl shusui (I bought one of these last summer but don't have a good picture of it, mine is small and the hi (red) was just starting to show in the fall). You can see how nice the blue is on this one!



Scott

Scott, Shusui is actually a very beautiful fish! I fell in love with them the moment I saw them at a place in Homestead, Fl. The owner had them imported from Japan, and they looked so different from all the other koi colors available. Although his Shusui were almost all blue, is that normal? Some sort of baby color, that changes later? Because the fish were rather small with around 5 inches....
Just wondering....

shusui get there red (hi) as they get bigger. I orderd two Japanese sushui this last summer, both are about 5 inches. They both have a little red on their sides but not much, it's hardly noticeable. One does have red pectoral fins. I am in hopes that the hi really starts showing up this summer. If this summer ever gets here! I agree, sushi are beautiful fish. They are my second favorite though, I like the asagi. I have been on a quest for an asagi but as of yet I haven't been able to get one. When I ordered my sushui I was supposed to get an asagi as well. The dealer sent me a kujaku instead, and not a very nice one at that. She told me it was an asagi. Asagi are NOT metallic, kujaku are, this fish is metallic blue with a funny looking orange/yellow head. There aren't any koi dealers on my area so I get what I can over the internet.


Scott

Your Blue Koi.... What a beautiful fish.

Jessica

Scott, did you try Blackwater Creek or Nishigikoi? They have excellent koi , and the fact that blackwater Creek is only 45 min from me, doesn't help either!
I hardly know my way around koi names, the only thing I am familiar with are Kohaku, Sanke, Showa and Shusi. Its easiest to learn if you have them at home, aside from the regular "beginners mutts".
When I went to the Miami show this weekend, there were chocolate (mahagony) colored butterfly koi there, about 5-6 inches, with shiny scales. Do they have a particular name as well? Their coloration looked so intense and deep, I would have taken one if I had the space...

I have been on a tight budget, so that is why I've not bought koi from places like that. (I know you get what you pay for ) The thing is, I wish I'd have just done that to begin with. I got some beautiful Sushui though, I don't think I could have gotten better that size and for the price. The problem was, I ordered 7 fish in all, one of course was supposed to be an asagi. 3 of the fish died withen the first month (one the first day). They had KHV, the dealer didn't quarantine the fish before she sent or before she advertised them! She only had them for two days before she sent them on to me. I was FURIOUS. Of course, thankful though that I knew to quarantine before putting them into the pond. I was lucky that four survived, thanks to a lot of help from Bonnie who runs bonniesplants.com she really helped me a lot. It was up and down with these guys for four months. And no, the dealer didn't make good on the money back guarantee.
Thus, if I'd have ordered from Blackwater or Nishigikoi I would have been a lot happier. But I learned a lesson which was important, and I learned more about taking care of sick fish which is the most valueable lesson.



That would be chagoi, I think. Were the scales just shiny or sparkly? Shiny would mean they are metallic, and then I would suppose (not sure) they are kujaku. If they sparkle then they are gin rin chagoi.

Scott

Gosh, it doesn't get any easier, does it? I think they were sparkling scales, so that would make them Chagoi.
Bonnie is great, I got some nice plants as well as koi clay from her over time, and I recommend her to anybody who wants a helpful and great service aside from their products!
KHV, thats horrible! I didn't know you can even treat for that virus!

ive notice that my koi has is blue near his tail too!
look

Andrea,
My guess on the fish would be "longfin ginrin chagoi". They tend too grow very large and are noted for being very friendly with their keepers.
Scott,
Are you positive they had KHV. This is a very serious virus that has disrupted the sales of koi in the last few months. I have heard of a US koi farms that tested positive and the government destroyed the entire population. I am not sure if that is true so maybe someone can help too confirm it or deny it . If the koi were straight in from japan I would doubt it carried KHV since as of now they have never found it in japanese KOI. Although that does not account for what they go through when they get here. It was determined that it showed up in some magoi, which they use for food fish and it shut down all of the major japanese shows this year.
It all shows the importance of a proper QT tank.

SLS,
It looks like a kujaku too me.

Amen to that! Even more so, since koi keeper tend to invest so much more in their fish than goldie keepers usually do, quality koi being much more expensive.

is there a site to work out their names
i dont know what a good koi looks like if it feel from the sky and hit me
for sure koi are more expensive they go from $1000+
in auction for those one footers
does anyone know what koi this one is

Is the last fish metallic? It sort of looks like it is from the picture. If so it's kujaku as well.

Rob,
The lady I got my koi from orders koi from Japan and Israel. Two of the koi I had gotten from her were from Israel the other's were from Japan (yeah I didn't include this importan factor but the two from Israel died along with one of the Japanese). She just throws them all in a tank together when she gets them. Horrible practice huh? Anyhow I learned my leason. She told me that they had KHV after her's were tested she lost a bunch of her fish as well. I didn't realize that she didn't QT her fish until after the fact. She of course appologized to me and stated that she had never had any problems before. She never refunded my money, even though she was supposed to. BTW, she also sales fish on ebay so if anyone is thinking of bidding, be careful!

Scott

If you catch KHV soon enough you can. You have to raise the temp to 86 degrees (of course no too fast) and leave it there. I left mine there for 10 days then let it lower itself down to I think it went to 75. I also raised the salt as well. These fish are now in my pond and everyone is happy (well at the moment cold and happy).

Then after this I had other problems happen with these fish. It was horrible! Two of the living had gotten big ulcers on their sides. Bonnie was SO awesome in helping me. She suggested I take the fish out and put hydrogen peroxide on the ulcers. They cleared up withen a could of days, amazing.

I had never had koi die on me like this so it wasn't a pleasant experience (never is I am sure). I had never even had sick koi before, so I was at a loss. I always make sure the water is good, feeding properly etc...

Bonnie's incredible when it comes to contact and customer service.

Such beautiful koi picks! I'm definately having a pond with koi someday.

do you mean taht all metallic koi are kujaku
i pretty sure shes metallic

no, not all are kujaku.


This yellow koi is a Yamabuki ogon and is metallic.



Here is a doitsu Yamabuki ogon, which is also metallic.



I bought both of these Koi when they were maybe 2 or 3 inches long. They are both over 9 inches long now and beautiful fish! The pictures aren't too great, I need to buy one of those pale blue tubs to take pictures of my koi with.

I think we should start a thread on different types of koi. That would be fun?


Scott

i like your kois
i bet they must off change colour many times
since you got your so small
mine has changed drammatically
in my first pic, that koi was originally white all over
now he has yellow, blue black and white
its so weird
but i like my second koi
she has that orange colour on her head
what a lovely contrast

SLS If I had too classify your last koi I would say a sakura ogon. It definately looks metallic too me and since it is more orange than yellow you could rule out hariwake (maybe).
I have heard about the protocol of heating the fish too get rid of the KHV but this is still a new and evolving theory. It also sounds like the Doc has had great success with this treatment. I would personally rather have them break with it and then die in the QT. Who knows how safe these fish are going too be long term? Call me paranoid but untill there is concrete evidence that past infected fish are going too be safe in the future I would rather lose them than my whole collection.

Rob your probably right on the classification of that koi, or at least closer than I am. Kujaku didn't sound right, but I didn't think it was Kohaku either though it has good white on it.


On the KHV, I'm not sure where I read it but I thought it was on Koivet where someone had put koi which had KHV but were cured in with koi that had never had it. None of the other koi had gotten. That is why I put them in the pond, I figured that if they didn't have a problem then surely it works. I put them in in September and thus far no problems. They had two months of decent weather and feeding time.

Scott

I am not disputing what you are saying. I have read all of the articles you are talking about and I am glad it worked out for you.
Now since I am a paranoid person about my fish I would still worry what is going too happen when they get heated up again. Can they be carriers for life? There is still way too much research too be done on this dreaded disease for me too feel safe. My only point is they have tested only small amounts of fish using this treatment although the results have been great. And if it was that easy too cure why was the all japan show canceled this year? As always with me: more questions than answers.
With that being said, your fish will be totally fine and maybe I have spent too much of my life growing up in NY.
You do know that all NYers are skeptical.

Jetman

Rob, I would be paranoid too, considering purchase prices of good koi and all. What I am thinking about is, the only thing you can do with the quarantine pond/container with the infected koi in it, you have to toss it in the trash? I mean, you can sterilize quarantine containers from almost anything, except the KHV virus....?

I don't think you would have any problems if you sterilized it in bleach. It can not live indefinately without water and a host. Supposedly just taking the temps over 86 for a few weeks will kill it. I have never read any contradictions that this does not work but I am skeptical since it has only been used for such a short time. It sounds like Scott cured it with fish that were known too have khv.
Scott,
My hat is off too you and hopefully you can keep us updated if you run into any problems with this. You might want too give Doc Johnson a call or email. He just opened up a lab and I believe he would love too hear your experiences. You could also pick his brain for a little while and post some of that info. Thanks for any replies.
Koi Kichi Rob

I don't want anyone to think I was being irrisponsible with my fish I love the little guys and wouldn't want to lose any of them. I was sad when one of the koi I ordered died the first day. I am 100% positive that the KHV is gone or at least it is not going to infect any of my other fish and isn't going to come back. I should have mentioned (which I didn't and am sorry I didn't because this is a pretty important fact) that I had put some young fry that were about 2 to 3 inches long in with these new koi after I had done the temp raise and all the other things to hopefully get rid of it. These fry are now in an aquarium in the house and have been since September. They are in the same aquarium that I treated the koi with the KHV and I kind of feel guilt because I didn't think about the fact that the KHV could still be in the aquarium without the fish. But I guess either I am lucky or some other factor because these fry are growing and perfectly healthy. Well, some do have physical deformities but they seem happy and those that are deformed seem happy an unaware of their physical problems.

Also, I do understand the paronia and skepticism, I was paranoid about it as well. It makes sense to be this way especially when one cares about their fish. Those fish depend on us to make sure they get everything they need. That is a huge responsibility. I felt guilty about putting the fry in with those koi because I didn't want a death sentence for them. I was told that that was the only way I'd know for sure that these fish would be okay to release in the pond.

With all that said. I wouldn't trust my expereince to work with everyone. The only way to know if these fish are going to be okay with the others is to put another in with them, which isn't a very appealing option. The only other option I had was to dispose of these new fish. The decisions are pretty harsh and because I was forced into these options I was furious with this lady whom I bought my fish from. I suppose the only option one really has after knowing all this is to have a good QT tank that one can keep fish in indefenatly in case the idiot you ordered from didn't do their job. My QT tank can be that way, but it's not an option that I really would like.


Anyhow, I hope no one thinks I took offense to posts because I didn't. I understand and appreciate the concerns. They are all good. I am angry at the woman I ordered from, I should have never had to of went through the KHV scare.

Scott

Thanks for filling us in on all of the info. I hope you did not take my post negatively since it was a compliment. How many people would even know the steps that you went through too save their fish if they had the same problem. Probably not many.
Hopefully more people will read this and realize how important it is too QT.

Rob,

Didn't take you negatively at all. But I did what I had to to save the fish.

Your are right, QT is not just an option it is the first and only step a responsible koi owner takes when bringing home new fish to the family.

Scott

hey scott and jetman
do you regularly test your pond with a test kit?
i don't, just want to know what you guys think and
if its necessary ?

I test my pond regularly in the spring, summer, and fall, yes. Very important! Of course I am sure that some people test theirs more regularly than I do. I only test once a month. The reason is I've done a complete water change with my pond once a year since I had it. I know this isn't a very good practice but I've had to because I'ver worked on my pond every year, digging bigger and bigger and not getting it right the first time type deal . In fact this year I am going to have to drain half of it in order to finish the plumbing up.

Scott

ive never done a complete water change
i only add water when it evaporates in summer
sometimes the pond smell of fish ( it normally doesnt smell at all)
does this occur in your pond?
thats when i do 50% water change

No, I've not noticed a fishy smell? Just like with fish tank you need to clean it out and do a 10% water change (probably once a month?). This is one thing that I am going to have to get into, but haven't had to because of the 100% water change every year. IMHO and as you've experienced the big water changed doesn't really effect the fish. Although I am told it stresses them out and you have to recycle your pond plus the proper bacteria ect.... could be gone. That all could be true? My fish seem to be fine though after I've put them in the fresh pond.


The test kit though is a must. They are easy to use.
Scott

Since my pond cycled the only thing I test for regularly now is KH and PH. Maybe once a month I run all the tests(ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Right now I can get away with this since my stocking level is so low but I will do it more regularly as the fish grow.
I change 20% of my water every week. After I am done cleaning the filter I pump out about 800 gallons and replace it with fresh water. If your pond smells fishy it is because there is a buildup of organics in the water. The best way too remedy that is regular water changes.

ok thanks
do you use rain water or tap water?
im using a combination of both
for the tap water, i let it sit for about a week before
i pour it in

It takes 24 hours in the sun for the water to be chlorine free, if that is why you wait? I just stick the hose in my skimmer and let it go, of course I use chlorine out as well. Our city water doesn't have much chlorine in it though, which is good because I have forgotten about the water and left it running for a few hours . Not a good practice especially if someone has gotten a little carried away with the chlorine in the water supply.

Scott

In the past months my koi has grown and grown. his head is showing a gold quality shine to it. he just keeps changing colors. I'm so proud

Pictures??????????????? I want to see too

is there a certain age they reach where they stop changing colour?
or is there a constant evolution for these guys
i thought they stop changing colour once there about 1 feet
thats why i thought people bigger kois because there
colors would be pretty much the same
guess not huh