Hello,

THis is my first time doing this, so I don't really know how to do this, and how to get responses to read, etc.

I have 2 goldfish, about 6 years old. Thay have had problems on and off with parasites, etc. Now the one who is blind, (he has one eye that sticks out with a white covering over it, and the other eye is kind of shrunken in), is acting quite severely sick!!

For a couple weeks, he's had clamped fins on and off (fins held flat to his body), and kind of swims jerkily. He also has had spasms (looks like electrical shocks, his body and fins shake violently). But he still was eating and doing fairly well.

I noticed a couple days ago that the other one was swimming wildly and rubbing against the stones in the bottom, so I figured they have parasites of some kind. So yesterday I changed about 30 -40 % of the water, and then put a medication in called "Parasite Clear". They are tablets that fizz. Well, the blind one started acting a lot worse last night, with his fins clamped really tight, and mostly just sitting on the bottom. And not eating. So I emailed a man from a website called Goldfishconnection, to ask his opinion on what to do. He advised me to change 50% of the water, then add a new carbon to the filter, and after 24 hours to add salt at one tablespoon per gallon of water. I have a 20 gallon tank. So this noon I changed almost 50% of the water, added a new carbon, and then added 3 tablspoons of salt. I accidentally added the salt sooner then what he had recommended. He said to wait 24 hours for the carbon to remove the medication, then remove the carbon and add the salt. So I shouldn't have put the salt in yet, but I did put 3 tablspoons in. He also recommended giving Prazi-Pro for flukes, which I might do tomorrow if that's also what you would recommend.

RIGHT NOW, however, I'm worried about Shimmer, the blind one!! He is now just staying at the bottom and his fins are clamped, and he seems very weak!! WHAT should I do to try to save him?? What would you recommend? I don't want to do anything to make it worse, and I hear different opinions about salt, etc. PLEASE give me any ideas or suggestions. And feel free to ask me questions! THANKS!!!

- Jill

Jill HI and welcome!!

WE need you to post the answers to all of the questions asked above. What are the params of the tank especially?

Rick is very good. It sounds like parasites so salt is great. If it is flukes the Prazi pro is good as well so you may want to do that.

Your dose of salt is right, however it is recommended to not put it in all at once. Usually we recommend 1 tsp per gallon every 12 hours for 3 times. That way it builds up slowly. So giving the fish a chance to calm down is warranted, he may be shocked alittle.

Also heating the tank to 80 degrees will help. Do this slowly only 2 degrees an hour. This will speed up the process of treating them but it will get worse before it's better.
Hang in there you are doing what you can.

Hi !!

Thanks so much for your welcome!! It really helps to have friendly and welcoming people, when you're doing something for the first time, and don't really know what you're doing. Thanks!

This is probably really dumb, but I don't know what you mean when you say you need "all the answers to the questions asked above". I don't see any questions. What questions are you talking about? Maybe you or someone could just give me a general lesson on how to use and navigate this message board? I've never done anything like this, so not sure what to do. Thanks SO much! I feel pretty dumb, but I might as well just ask questions.

So far, all I've done is added the salt. JUST THAT seems to have helped quite a bit already!! I was SO glad to see Shimmer with his fins up, and moving around, acting more like himself! What a relief! What do you think that means? I want to understand what types of problems or conditions the salt would help. And whether that's an actual cure, or if it just treats or covers up symptoms,; (something like when we take pain relievers, which mask or help the pain, but don't treat the underlying problem) He's still not perfect, though, and I'm wondering whether to still go ahead and do the PraziPro treatment, even if we're not sure they have the flukes. What do you think?? Would it hurt them, even if they don't have flukes? Rick says it's very safe, so maybe I should go ahead and do it.

I'll write again later, hopefully with more of the information you need.

Thanks and bye for now!

- Jill

Jill when you enter into the 911 forum before you click on your thread there is a red box at the top. It has questions about Water quality, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and PH.
Along with how big is the tank, the filter, how long has it been running. How many fish are in it?

All of these questions we need answers to.
I am glad they seem better, but to continue with treatment we need the info to guide you fully.
\
PS don't worry about being new, we all were there at one time. Pretty soon you will have the knack and be whipping around the board like Jeff Gordan.

Hi

This is what I get when I do the tests myself using the Mardel test strips.

Nitrite 0
Hardness 120
Buffering 180
PH 7.2 (somewhere around there)
Nitrate 40

Ammonia 0 or .25

I have two goldfish, about 6 or 7 inches long each. They're in a 20 gallon tank. They're about 6 years old.

PLEASE HELP!

I treated with Prazi Pro for 7 days (from Rick at Goldfish Connection). And I have salted at .3% for almost two weeks now. I did these things at Rick's reccommendations. He thought it was probably gill flukes.

They were doing pretty well while on the PraziPro. Except that during that time, Mo (the one who wasn't originally sick) started acting sick. He sat on the bottom in a corner and had clamped fins.

The last day of the Prazi treatment was on Saturday. Last night I put the carbon back in. And I was planning to siphon about 20 to 25% of the water tonight or tomorrow.

But now, starting this morning, Shimmer (the one who was first sick) is not looking too good at all!!! What he's doing is almost constantly moving his mouth and gills real fast! Like he's having breathing difficulty. He didn't do that while on the Prazi. Should I give Prazi again?? (I gave it for 7 days) Or another medication for parasites?? Or an antibiotic? After going through all this and seeing him improve somewhat, I don't understand why he suddenly seems worse!! I want to do what I can for him while he still has a fighting chance! They also still both have some strange rapid shaking of their fins and body. And they sometimes do some "yawning". But now, Shimmer is just really gasping and moving his mouth and gills most of the time.

What can I DO?? Please write back SOON!!

Thanks!

- Jill

Okay, your nitrates are a bit high (they should not be over 30), even though they are good to have, too many can be toxic, that may be part of your troubles or they might be a side effect, I don't really know that much about those things. Also, do you have an airstone or something? The fish yawning can mean that there isn't enough oxygen in the tank, it can also mean there is something wrong with your water, agian I'm thinking nitrates. If I remember correctly the salt can hurt the oxygen levels in the tank to (please correct me if I'm wrong).



Sometimes that happens, like the calm before the storm, just keep at what your doing. You seem to be doing everything you can so just keep at it.

By the way , I noticed you are from Michigan, do mind if I ask where in MI you are? I go to MSU and I get excited whenever I find someone else thats from Michigan.

Hi

Thanks for the response. I'm from Spring Lake. Near Grand Haven, Muskegon, etc. Near Lake Michigan.

Yes, I do have oxygen in the tank. Two air bubbler things. They seem to provide enough oxygen.

How do I lower the nitrates?

I have now just noticed what I think look like tiny gold or yellowish shiny specks on Shimmer. I haven't specifically noticed that before. Could that be a certain type of parasite or disease, like maybe velvet disease?? If it is, what's the best medication to use for that??

I really want to help him before it's too late.

Thanks!

Hi,and welcome to the forum!!
And I hope they get better-Yawning is sometimes a sign of flukes so I guess the Prazipro would help-You lower Nitrates buy water changes-A 50% should cut it down my half or so-And the specks,I'm not sure-But I know other people will know.
I'm hoping they get better-And if they have parasites,salt dips can help-

Doing water changes is the only way to control the nitrates. You want to keep them between 10-20 for perfect levels. Anything higher and the fish can have problems.

I am not sure of the yellow specs. I would keep a watch on them at this time and continue with the prazi pro.

Sounds like a bacterial infection in the mouth. I read something today about that. There is something for it too. Should be next to Melafix in the store. Describe the white on his eye please, pictures too if you can. Sounds like flukes/parasites.

Pick up melafix, quick cure, antibacterial medicated food and more parasite clear.

Take the salt out before useing quick cure, 30% water change before each dose. Start off at half dose, watch for a few hours. if doing well, do the rest of the dose. Keep your water monitored and perfect. Do not use all meds at once. The medicated food may be used with all treatments.

Thanks.

It's confusing getting different responses from different people, with different reccommendations of medications, etc. I don't ever want to do the wrong thing and end up hurting them more.

Where do you get Quick Cure? What item are you taliking about that would be next to the Melafix? Do you mean PimaFix? Which one of those would you reccommend to use?

NOW, there's a new finding on Shimmer! He's not really gasping much any more, which is good, and his fins are up. But now I think I see some sort of grayish patches on his side. And on one of those things on the front of their faces -- what are those called? They're like little holes or nostrils on the front of their head, in between their eyes. It's part of their anatomy. And his skin and scales just don't look very healthy in appearnce. It's kind of losing color, some scales are whitish, and now those kind of dark or grayish patches.

Also, I see some little short white stringy things hanging on his body and one under his chin. They don't seem like live worms, they seem more like loose skin or something. But maybe they are a parasite. I really don't know!! I wish some expert could come look at him, but I don't know anyone like that!!

Oh! Also, I started them on MetroMeds, a medicated food for internal parasites, on Friday. They're supposed to be on only that for 14 days. So I'm not sure what to do about the advice to start them on an antibiotic food. I would have to quit the MetroMeds early, and I don't know if that would be good for them.

Mo (the other goldfish in the tank) seems to be doing pretty well right now. His fins are up most of the time and he's swimming around more.

PLEASE KEEP WWRITING and giving me advice!!! I don't know a lot, but I am learning and want to do what I can for them!! THANKS!!

Put the sick fish in your hospital tank. However, both tanks need to be treated with the parasite clear. You have parasites as well as bacterial infections. You see bruises now? Do you see like red lines that look like veins with blood? Bruising suggests the fish is septic. What colour are the gills? Pimafix is exactly what I was thinking. Guess your pet store was set up like mine! I knew I would recognize the name. I think if you read on the back of a bottle, it says its for bacterial infections. Your fish is very sick, so I suggest doing most meds in the water. Since he is eating the ground up medicated food, you have hope. Can you take pictures of what the stuff is like and post it? The white stuff. I have a couple ideas on that, pictures would help me. Either idea is still a parasite. How long ago did you treat with parasite clear?

I don't know how to post pictures. Can you explain how to do that??

Also, I don't have a hospital tank, and I don't think I can do that. We don't really have the room in our house, or the money to buy all the stuff, like another filter, etc. Unless you can explain an easy way to do that. Also, I'm handicapped and use an electric wheelchair, and can't do that stuff by myself. I have to ask my mom to do the work involved, and don't know if she can or will do it.

What do you mean "bruising" and "septic"? Is that the the black and grayish stuff I'm seeing now? I thought it was something external, like some type of parasite or fungus. No, I don't see any red lines.

I used the Parasite Clear maybe 10 days ago. I finished the PraziPro treatment on Saturday. (from the Goldfish Connection website). I used that for 7 days. It's supposed to be for flukes.

This afternoon I siphoned (changed) about 30% of the water. I put in AquaSafe (a water conditioner) and Cycle (which is supposed to help build up the good bacteria in the tank).

I'm really confused about exactly what I should be doing right now. I haven't started any other meds yet. Please keep in touch. And I hope to hear from more people just to get more ideas. THAnks!!

Ok since you did those two treatments right now I would recommend you doing the quick cure. 30% water change daily, before each use. Start off at half dose. If the response is well after 2 hours, you can add the remaining dose. But if they are aggated, keep it at half dose. Can you perhaps have the tank lowered to a height of which you can reach? I use a bucket to do my water changes. You can do that too, just don't have it as full as me so it doesn't spill on you. Perhaps you and your mother can find a spot to put the tank so you can do the caring as well. You can continue feeding the medicated bacterial food during the quick cure. Keep an eye on the water params daily. And keep us posted

Ok, not sure that the quick cure is the way to go.
Prazi Pro and parasite clear will kill parasites. The metromeds are a antibotic food so that will take care of internal bacteria infections.

How are the fish acting? If they are getting better great I would just finish the meds you are currently using and continue the metromeds another week, then stop and wait to see how they are.

I know that meds can help but they can also be harmful if used to much. Fish need perfect water so posting what your params are again will help.

I am dizzy from all the Meds called out to be used,and how many different illnesses have been mentioned. Can we start over here,please? Jill,can you give us another water parameter reading,and could you also go through the symptoms that they're having now/ Where are these Gray/Black Spots? What are these white strings? Are they hanging like the fish's slime coat's peeling off,look closely ,does it look to have an attachement on the end into the fish?What are his symptoms now-any scratching/flashing against objects/hiding/spitting food/red streaks/clamped fins,etc? Sorry to ask for all the info again,I just want to have all the facts right .Post soon so we can help!

Desiree,


Please, let Devs and/or Laurie handle this. They are much more able to help Killjoy in that they have been doing this for quite some time now........


Paul

Thanks for the responses!!!

Yes, the tank is at my height so I can help with water changes. I'm just saying that I don't think I can have a separate hospital tank. Unless you all think that's really important, and can give me ideas on how to do it easily.

I really want to know what this black stuff is!!! It just doesn't look good! It's on his right side toward the back, at the start of his tail, one small spot on his left side, some on the front of his face, and on those "nostril" things ( I don't know what those are called). And I just noticed a spot of it where the front left fin/flipper attaches to the body (don't know what that's called, it's one of those front "arms" they swim with).

As far as his behavior: His fins are up most of the time. He does still do some funny jerky movements of his head and body (like spasms?), he sometimes does fast movements of his mouth and gills, and sometimes curves his body to the side real fast (like a C shape, trying to touch his head to his tail). He also sometimes jumps toward the surface of the water (NOT very often).

I just fed them, and he was still definitely interested in eating, which is great!! I want to make sure I do what I can, and feed the right thing, while he still has some fight and some interest in food. Metromeds is different than MediGold medicated food, and I'm not really sure which one would be best right now. I'm feeding MetroMeds.

I don't have time to write more right now. Please write again soon!! Thanks!

Whoa! I also got confused

I am not going to advise here....just wanted to let you know I hope all works out well!

Can you post new water test results as Devs asked so they can re-access the situation please.

Best of luck!

Jill as Devs mentioned we need those levels of the tank. The black could be ammonia burns. The eractic behavior could be from parasites, but we need to tackle each problem first and the water is the first step in any treatment.
Water quality can hurt or heal a fish, so get those numbers to us as quick as you can and we can help you.

Where did you get the Metromeds? Metromed food should be all the same should'nt it gang? Which means it is an antibotic food not for parasites. So unless the fish has an infection I would feed a normal food.

HEY People!!

Here's the water parameters, to my best estimation, using the Mardel Test Strips.

NitrItes 0
NitrAtes 40 (I can't ever seem to get this down, it used to be around 60 or 80)
Total Hardness 120
Total Alkalinity/Buffering Capacity 180
PH 7.2

Ammonia 0 or .25 (I think it's pretty yellow, which would be 0)

Let me know if you think there's a better test kit to use to check the water. I'm not that experienced at this. I'm hoping to bring a water sample to a local pet shop tomorrow, and see how that compares to my testing.

Shimmer STILL has some spasming or strange shaking of his body and fins, which makes me wonder if he still has some type of parasite! I tell you what, I think these guys (Shimmer and Mo, which is short for Mohawk because he had a black stripe on his head when I got him) I think they've proabably had parasites for a couple of years now!!! They've had symptoms of parasites on and off for a long time, like the scratching and flashing, clamped fins, hiding, gasping mouth and gills,etc. I think it must be some type or types of really bad parasites that get knocked off enough to give them SOME relief, with the medications I have used once in a while, but that they don't ever get completely rid of them!!! I'm just learning a lot recently, and that's what I suspect. WHAT can I DO!!!??

ALSO, I just found something very interesting on a koivet.com website. I found something called "melanophore migration", which is a blackening of the skin caused by a variety of things that can cause damage to the skin, including heavy fluke infestation or other parasitism. Do you think this is possibly what the black stuff is that's on Shimmer??? I REALLY want to figure out what that is!! If that's what it is, it's okay because it's a healing process of the skin. But if it's something bad, like a certain type of parasite or fungus, I want to start treating it ASAP, so it doesn't get out of control and kill him!! I'm sure it's not ammonia burn, so we can rule that out. But I still think they may have some type of parasite or parasites, because I still see some flashing/ scratching, and spasming or rapid shaking of the body and fins.

By the way, just to clear things up, so everybody's not so confused about the medications I've given, here's a review: It's really not that much. About 2 to 3 weeks ago, I saw definite signs of parasites and Shimmer was looking REALLY bad and sick. So I started them on Parasite Clear medication. But the next day, Shimmer looked even worse, so I siphoned out about 40% of the water, and put the carbon back in, to get rid of the Parasite Clear medication. SO, they didn't actually have the full dose of Parasite Clear. I then began communicating with Rick from Goldfish Connection, and he advised me to salt at .3% (meaning 1 TABLESPOON per gallon of water), and to start PraziPro for flukes ASAP. So that's waht I did. I added the salt, which immediately seemed to help Shimmer perk up and feel better. THen, a few days later, after ordering the Prazi-Pro, I started that, and treated with it for 7 days. I started the Prazi on Sunday October 2, and finished this past Saturday the 8th of October. That treatment is supposed to be used for 5 - 7 days. I did it all 7 days becasue that;s what Rick advised. THEN, on Sunday evening I put the carbon back in the filter. And THEN, on Monday afternoon, 2 days ago, the 10th, I siphoned about 30% of the water, and put in the Aquasafe water conditioner and the Cycle, which helps the good bacteria levels.

So now the salt is at a lower level, but not completely out of there. It was at .3%, but since I siphoned 30% of the water on Monday, there's probably about 12 TaBlespoons of salt in there now, or something like that. It's hard to know exactly.

SORRY this has gotten SO LONG!! I just wanted to explain everyhting clearly, so you know how to work with me and advise me. Oh yeah, you asked about MetroMeds. The container of Metro Meds was ordered from Goldfishconnection, and it says it's for "Holes in the Head, Internal Parasites, and Symptoms of Dropsy". I really didn't know whether to give it, but rick said it wouldn't hurt, and we thought they might have internal parasites. THe other medicated food sold on Goldfish Connection is called "MediGold", and it is an antibiotic food which contains sulfadimethoxine and ormetoprim sulfa. I am currently feeding the MetroMed food, for internal parasites. I also have the Medi-Gold on hand, in case I would need that.

Hope to hear from people soon!! Thanks for all your help!!!
- Jill
(Please call me Jill, not "killjoy" as one person referred to me as)

Sorry Jill, I thought I had read your name as Kill4joy......

In light of your talking to Rick at GC, I have a few suggestions for you.


You certainly did the right thing as far as treating with salt and prazi right off the bat. At least now, you know that flukes are not what your fish have. It also helps narrow down the possibilities to 2-3 parasites:

Chilodonella, Costia, Tetrahymena and possibly Trichodina. Although, Trich gets pretty well annhialated with salt at 0.3%. But then again, resistancies can and do happen.


Since it seems that 0.3% salt did not get rid of the problem, if you want to move on to another, stronger med, you should try Quick Cure. Treat with quick cure as per the instructions for 5 days straight. Salt dips in a concentration of 2%, for 5 minutes max, should be performed just before adding the doses of QC. Salt dip on the first 2 days, break for a day, then salt dip for the remaining 2 days of treatment. Temp should never be over 80-82 for this treatment.


If after this treatment is administered, you see them acting up with the flashing and such, I believe it would be time to pull out the big guns and treat them in a separate container with potassium permanganate. They'l need the tratment to last about a week while you tear down their tank and sterilize it. Then you'll need to re-cycle your tank. Thats easily done with Bio-Spira from marineland labs (within a week, instead of a month).........

All in all, I think it would be wise to try and aquire the use of a microscope for a distinctive diagnosis of the culprit that is causing this. With a ID, you can tailor your treatments to directly affect them. the scope does not need to be an expensive on. I use a wlmart chepo that I bought for less than 30 dollars (it comes with a telescope too)


Whaddya think?

Hi

Thanks for your response!

I feel kind of overwhelmed with everything you suggested, and not sure of how to do those things. I don't want to hurt my fishies. Could you explain exactly how I would do that stuff?? Like what do you mean "salt dips in a concentration of 2%, for 5 minutes max, should be performed just before adding the doses of QC"? I don't know what you mean. I've never done "salt dips", and would probably need someone's help, and don't know if I have anyone willing or able to do that. Do you add the QC right to their aquarium water? Could you just explain more clearly what to do? Then I'll see if I think it's something that can be done.

What kind of cheap microscope would I look for? Where is it at WalMart and what's it called, etc.? And then, how do I use it? I've never done that. How do you look at the fish with it, and then how can you tell what they have? I'm not sure I would know how to identify parasites!! I'm not a vet. And I don't know of any vets around here that treat fish. I'm willing to try to identify the parasites but I would need some direction on how to do it.

Thanks SO much!!
- Jill

P.S. What do you think of the black stuff on Shimmer? Could it be the "melanophore migration" that I found on koivet.com?. What else could it be?

No worries, it'll take a bit of reading on your part but all of the techniques and procedures are very safe and effective.


I believe you are right about the black marks being indicative of a burn of some sort. Some medications, ammonia and other toxins will cause them. Could he source be from ammonia building up recently? Your ammonia tests have indicated there is atr least some right now.....



Ok, here's a link to the telescope/microscope combo I bought: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?...030660805102498 I found it up front, right next to the eye centers. There will be guitars and other telescopes there too.


For identifying parasites, here's a link to a lot of other links about it: http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/FishInfo.html#Care Scroll to about 1/3 of the way down.

Salt dips are easy to do and are a safe procedure if you watch for immediate sign of removal. 1.5% dip is 2 ounces of aquarium salt per gallon. The dip should be done in a separate container. Add a single fish to the vat of saltwater and start a stopwatch. If the fish floats to the surface on it side and can't swim back down, remove immediately. If the fish continues to swim around and flap its gill flaps, it can go longer. If it floats up a bit and doesn't swim, but is still breathing, give it a little nudge, if it continues to swim around, it can go longer. It is usually very obvious when a goldfish is done with the dip..........

Quick cure is used in the aquarium at one drop per gallon, once a day, after at least a 30% waterchange. 5 days max. If on the 3rd day, they are doing well, go the extra two days.


There is lots of info out there. You just have to use the right keywords in the search engines.


Post back soon.

Paul

Jill how big is the fish? Just asking, so that we know before the salt dips are started. We want to be sure they can handle it.

Glad to see Toothy has arrived with the insite for these bugs. He is the master of treating these things. Thanks for stepping in Paul.

Hi

Shimmer is about 7 inches long. Pretty big. So is Mo.

Now it seems that Mo is catching the black stuff!!! What is this!!? I just noticed (5:20 pm on Friday, Oct. 14) a little bit of black stuff starting on the top and back of his side and toward his tail and a little on his top fin! Is this something that's contagious? I still think I sort of see some tiny yellowish or goldish spots on Shimmer. If that's a certain parasite, what kind is it? Is it velvet disease? What about this blackening? It's gotten worse (spread more) and darker on Shimmer, and now it's starting on Mo! It also seems that Shimmer has white areas, maybe where he's lost some scales. It's just seems like kind of bad skin and scales. Maybe he's lost his slime coat??

I'm not sure if the salt dips would work for me yet. My parents are leaving for a couple days this weekend, for a little get-away, which they need. Don't know if you read an earlier message I wrote, explaining that I am physically disabled and use an electric wheelchair. So I need lots of help with working with my fish. And of course somnetimes people aren't available or just aren't the type of people willing or able to do certain things. My mom is glad to help with siphoning the tank, putting medications in there, removing the carbon, etc. But I don't know how doable the salt dips will be. And since they're going away for 2 or 3 days, it wouldn't be done consistently, or in the way Paul described to do it with the Quick Cure. I also sort of wonder how good it would be for them when it seems that they have kind of raw or bad skin and scales right now.

SO, my question is, for now, would it be okay or advisable to do the Quick Cure, but without the salt dips?? I don't want to do that if it not be as good for them or if it could make things worse. But if that is okay, it would probably be easier for me to treat with just the QC. My other question is, can you have any salt in the tank water when you treat with QC? As I said, there's still probably something like 12 taBlespoons in there.

Please let me know what you think !! I don't want to put off treatment if that will make things worse, but it may be necessary to do so if we need to do the salt dips along with the QC.

Thanks for your help!!!

- Jill

P.S. I haven't had a chance to get a microscope yet at WalMart.
Also, what does everybody think of CopperSafe medication? Does that work well?

Jill I am not sure on the quick cure. Hopefully Toothy will be around tonight and advise on that. Hang in there hopefully your fish will too.

Hey Toothy! Or somebody!!

Now Shimmer has his fins clamped most of the time, and looks pretty weak!
He kind of drifts with the current. And his fins have rapid shaking spasms. I think I need to start something SOON!!

I asked about doing Quick Cure without doing the salt dips. Hope to hear on that soon! And whether there can be any salt in the aquarium when using QC.

And I also wondered what you think of CopperSafe.

And what about Maracide medication? I bought some tonight but won't use it if you don't think it's good. It says it's for Ich, Velvet, and other external parasites. The active ingredients are Malachite Green and Chitosan. It's a spot on product that treats the fish not the water. It says to use 2 capfuls per 10 gallons of water, and treat on days 1, 3, and 5.

Please let me know what med is best!! Thanks!!
- Jill

It's me again.

Shimmer surprises me all the time! Just now when I fed them, he acted quite energetic and interested in eating! And his fins were up. Those are good signs, right?? How do parasites affect their appetite, etc.? Just trying to figure out why sometimes they seem deathly ill, and other times they perk up and act okay. I think they're just real fighters and want to live!! But I still think they do have parasites, because of their shaking fins, sometimes scratching, clamped fins, etc. And I don't like this black stuff.

Hope to hear from you soon!!
- Jill

In light of your inability to perform stuff like salt dips, I thin it would be ok to forego them.....



However, lets start again with the stuff you see on your goldfish:


Are these black spot all the same size? If so, how big are the spots?

Are the whitening areas like a area where the slime coat is building up a bit?

If the gold flecks look just like little gold shaving that sparkle, in the skin or scales, then its most likely part of their natural coloration (metallic)


Okay, Since you have already ran Prazi through them, the whitish tufts you see hanging off of them sounds like it could either be epistylus moving into damaged tissues or columnaris disease (flexbacter). The Quick cure should take care of epistylus and if this is columnaris, erythromycin (Maracyn 1) will knock it out. You can use maracyn 1 and Quick cure at the same time but I suggest the quick cure be used first. As Quick Cure should handle columnaris, any remaining clomnaris can be treated afterwards, with Maracyn 1.


All in all, try to get the Quick Cure in there ASAP.


good luck!


Paul

Thanks Paul!!

So glad to hear from you!

Just wanted to let you know of the latest development. I brought a water sample in to a local pet shop, and they told me there was about .25 ammonia. They advised to do a 50% water change.

So I just did a 50% water change, and then added Stress Coat water conditioner (I added 4 teaspoons; it says to add 2 teaspoons to remove chlorine, etc, and 4 teaspoons to help repair damaged skin and fins, so I added 4 teaspoons, thinking maybe this black stuff is skin damage, caused by ammonia burns). I then also added Stress Zyme, which is to help the biological filtration, to build good bacteria, and help control nitrites and ammonia. I added 2 teaspoons of that. I have never used that before.

Are those products good or okay to use??!! Was the 50% water change okay to do?? What about salt now? I have now removed about 75% or 80% of the water altogether over the last week, and have not added any more salt. Should I add some more salt??

PLEASE let me know if this stuff was okay to do! And also about whether to put more salt in there! (What about having salt in there along with the Quick Cure?)
Thanks!!

-- Jill

For goldfish, salt and quick Cure is a big NO. Salt dips and then into quick cure are OK and are actually beneficial to the treatment.


A 50% waterchange is great! I do that at least once a week to each of my tanks.

Stress-Zyme is snake oil. Don't bother with it. It wont harm anything but it wont DO anything either. If your tank has ammonia and it wont go away, then your filtration is either subpar or you recently crashed your cycle somehow. Please answer the questions below:

How many gallons is the tank?

How large are the two fish?

What is the name and size of the filter/s on the tank?

Do any recent cleaning to the filter?


Post back soon.

Paul

Hi Paul

The tank is 20 gallons.

The two fish (Shimmer and Mo) are about 6 or 7 inches long each.

(They were tiny little feeder fish when I got them 6 years ago. They've grown A LOT! I have advanced them into bigger tanks several times. They started out in a little 3 gallon container)

The filter is an AquaClear 30 or something like that. It's the next size up from AquaClear Mini. It filters up to a 40 gallon tank. It has three parts - a sponge, a carbon, and a mesh bag of stones for helping with good bacteria.

A couple weeks ago, I did rinse everything in the filter, with tap water, which is probably a no-no. I know it says to rinse with aquarium water, but sometimes it's so dirty that I feel like I have to run the parts under running water to get them clean enough. Maybe this ruined the cycle somewhat?? What are the best products to help build up the good bacteria? And how much should be given?

So should I wait longer to start the Quick Cure? Do you think most or enough of the salt is out of there? About 2 and a half weeks ago, I had put the .3% of salt in there. Since then I have siphoned probably about 80% of the water out of there and haven't added any more salt. So there's maybe something like 4 taBlespoons in there? Or 12 teaspoons? It's hard to know exactly how much I've gotten out with the water changes I've done. Do we need to do even more water changes before adding any Quick Cure, to make sure there''s absolutely NO salt in there?

Hope to hear soon!! Thanks so much for your help!

P.S. What kinds of fungus can goldfish get? Could that ever look black?
To answer your question about the black stuff: the blackening is not really in spots. It's big areas, just kind of generally covering a lot of Shimmer's body and face, mouth, and fins. And as I said, Mo is now getting it too. It's on the top of his back and on his top fin and tail, and a little on his face and mouth. Some of it looks sort of grayish in color, but mostly black.

Yep, your bio-filter got tripped up by the excessive cleaning recently. The black marks are actually the equivelent to scabs on a human. It means that the healing process has begun and the ammonia that spiked is receding. The cycle of your filter doesn't seem to be catching back up very well, according to your high nitrItes. Indeed, NEVER use tapwater to clean your bio-base. Here's a link to help you understand the nechanics of a properly kept fitler: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=26495


Off the top, the AC30 only pumps 150 gph. So, your filtration rate is exactly 75% sufficient for two large goldfish in a 20 gallon tank. To make your filtration come up to the level it should be, I would sugggest purchasing a small, internal filter, or another small HOB filter like you have (AC mini).


Now we have a dilemma, we need to surmise if their flashing and scratching is from the toxic ater burning them, or because of parasites. You might want to correct the water quality and keep it good and see if they respond to that first. Waterchanges, daily, until you can get the added filtration in and colonizing with benaficial bacteria, should be performed without fail. If you are gong this route, each waterchange you do, add 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt per gallon of water to be replaced. This will help gaurd from nitrIte toxicity.

Or, you could do the following:

Treat them in a separate container for the 3-5 days it takes to complete a treatment. You can do this in ANY plastic (rubbermaid or the like) or glass bin that is cleaned well (ten gallons is best). You wont need filtration for them as you will be performing 100% waterchanges each day. However, aeration in the form of a small waterpump or aerator should be used.


100% waterchanges with temperature matched dechlorinated water and then add a fresh dose of Quick Cure. Add the fish to the treated water and cover it from getting excessive light. Ambient light in the room is OK. Too much light deactivates the malachite green part of the med. Remember to test to see if your ammonia is rising in between changes. If it rises above the levels in this link: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=35322, then you should perform a waterchange and add fresh meds right then. Repeat til the 3-5 days is up.

As I mentioned before, you can perform salt dips right before going into the fresh medicated water each day for 3 days, wait a day, and then perform one more before the last addition of meds.


I still feel its possible for parasites to be in the picture. But maybe we should see if it was the water quality first...........


Paul

Paul,

If I just leave them in their tank and do water changes every day, how much of a water change should that be? 25% or what? And what should I add to the tank to colonize with beneficial bacteria? Also, can you give me any specific names or types of filters that would be good to add to what I presently have, or maybe even to replace what I have? Although it would probably be good to keep the mesh bag of stone things that help with the good bacteria. Anyway, I'd just like more specific ideas so I know what to shop for. You said a "small, internal filter", and I don't know what you mean by that. Thanks!

You also said to put 1 tablespoon of salt in there for each gallon of water that is changed. Should this really be done if I am going to do the Quick Cure? I'm just kind of confused and overwhelmed with all the different ideas you presented in your last reply.

Thanks Paul. Hope to hear again soon!
- Jill

Well, I tried to imply that there are two distinct possibilities here. Since flashing and scratching can be indicative of parasite OR toxins in the water (such as high enough ammonia to cause burns), then we might need to see if this is a water quality problem, first. That is why I was mentioning the salt be used until the water quality was fixed.

Now, if you feel that this is indeed a parasite infection, wich it most likely is, then you would need to treat them immediately with the quick cure. No salt. But, to do this IN your tank, you will need to do as large a waterchange (once OR twice daily) to keep your nitrItes VERY low and the ammonia below the prescribed level from the ammonia toxicity link I gave you earlier. Remember, if you do a 25-30% waterchange and the ammonia or nitrItes are still too high for comfort, then you must do more of a waterchange right then. It has to be done until the levels are satisfactory.

Remember this: Almost all treatments are rendered useless in the face of toxic water. The water quality MUST be good for the treatment to work as it is suppose to. So, treating with Quick Cure in a sepoarate bin is recommended if the bio-filter of the tank is weak or undergunned. Once and if the bio-filtration of the tank is up to par, then, and only then, should they be treated in the main tank.

Malachite green and formalin are great parasiticides, But with too many organics in the water, they are rendered less effective becasue they expend their energies oxidizing organics like poo, food, and amm/trites/trates.


Does that help clarify a bit? If not, I can go into further detail for you.....

Oh yeah, filters......

Heres a very good fix for your filtration woes: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...id1=2885;pcid2=

I suggest that you use two sponges in this filter. So, get a replacement sponge for it and use both in the basket. Then, all you have to do for maintenence is remove the bottom sponge and rinse in opld tankwater by squeezing out the excess goop. The sponge that was on top, then goes to the bottom and the one you just squeezed sits on top. Alternate like this each week.

It might even be a good idea to do this for your other aquaclear as well. But, wait til you have the new filter up and running for a week before you remove the rocks and switch to a sponge.

Either way, rocks or sponges willl work fine. I just find that two sponges is easier to maintain than a bag of rocks and a sponge.......


Paul

Hi Paul (or do you prefer to be called toothless?)

Right now, I haven't done anything since Saturday, when I changed 50% of the water. That's the last time someone could help me out with anything.

I will be looking into getting more filtration.

Right now, I'm sort of hesitating to do anything major, like giving more meds of any kind, because in the last day or two it seems like they're improving somewhat. Starting last night, Shimmer was much more back to his old personality! When I fed them, he came to the top to get a piece of food out of my fingers, which he hasn't done for several weeks! (He's blind, so he doesn't always get much food out of the gravel, because Mo is such a hog and grabs most of it up before Shimmer gets any. So Shimmer had learned to come to the top to get some food from my fingers). I was SO excited to see him acting a little more like himself! I never would have thought you could get so attached to fish, and love them so much, and get to know their different personalities! (they do have different personalities you know )

Of course I'm still concerned about both of them, with their long-standing problems with parasites and sicknesses they've had. And I'm kind of concerned about Mo's black areas, which seems to be spreading and getting a little worse. But he doesn't seem to be acting too sick or anything. I think Shimmer's blackness is fading just a little, so that's good!

I think right now my plan of action is to watch the water quality and make sure that's up to par and stays really good. By the way, I haven't had a problem with high nitrItes, as you indicated. Mostly with high nitrAtes, like 60 or 80. And last week I found out there was ammonia at .25. I'll have to get that checked again. What do you think is a good water test kit?? I'm not so sure the Mardel Test Strips work that great, because when I tested with that, it looked like 0. But when I brought a sample to the pet shop, they said the ammonia was at .25. I want to make sure I keep good track of that. I've been learning a lot lately, from you and from others, and I think one of my problems was overfeeding (because Mo is such a pig), and not frequent enough water changes. That's probably why I've had such high nitrAtes -- too much gunk in the gravel, etc.

Anyway, I want to work on having tip-top water quality, and see how they do. So please advise me once more on how I would do that. How much and how frequent water changes, Should I add salt, etc. ? And what's a good test kit to use? Also, what's the best water conditioner to add?

I'll just watch carefully how they act the next few days, and decide from there what should be done. Of course I'll keep you updated and consult with you on what to do if it seems that more meds are needed for parasites, etc.

Thanks SO much for all your help and knowledge about fish care!! You're great! And so is Laurie, and some others who have advised me. I'm glad I found this message board!

- Jill

Hi again,

I'd love to send pictures of my guys, so you could see the blackening, etc. I do have a digital camera. Could someone explain how to do that? I'd love to know how I can do that. Thanks!

- Jill

Jill, you can go to photobucket.com and load the pics there and the post a link to them here.

Glad to see Paul is helping you out.

Paul or Toothless is fine, I go by both.


Glad to see that your gaining lots of knowledge about your little wigglers! It can seem quite daunting at first, but good fishkeeping will quickly become second nature to you. Just adhere to a few basic principles and your fish will do very well.


Okay, some basic rules of thumb would be:

--At least ten gallons of water PER fancy goldfish.

--At least 100gph for every ten gallons of tankwater

--Test weekly for EVERYTHING (ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes, pH). Keep nitrAtes below 40-50ppm.

--Perform at least a 25% waterchange each week, regardless of the test results.

--Feed a variety of foods and only as much as your fish can eat within 5 minutes, once or tweice a day. Young goldfish can be fed an extra serving per day.

--Maintain a regular lighting schedule, timers are great for this. Try to feed at the same time of day, every day.

--DO NOT EVER introduce live plants to your tank unless you have disinfected them , very well, with either a bleach/water solution or better yet, Pottasium permanganate in the form of Clearwater by Jungle Labs or Permoxyn by Kordon. Those two forms of PP are very easy to use and VERY effective at killing ANY nasties that may be lurking.

--DO NOT EVER introduce a new fish to an established tnk until it has undergone at least a month of quarentine with no problems surfacing.



Okay, The best water conditioners, by far, are Amquel plus and Prime. They are the same formula with different names. It not only dechlorinates, it detoxifies ammonia and nitrItes if used accordng to the test results and directions. Good stuff....

Waterchanges should be done ANYTHIME the test results indicate the need. Once the correct filtration rate and maintenence is applied, you will only need to concentrate on nitrAtes as your ammonia and nitrItes will remain nil. Test for everything weekly, anyway.

Salt should only be usd if there is a need for it. NitrIte toxicity, parasites and slime coat stimulation are the only real reasons for every using it. It is not recommended to use salt as a regular additive.

The best test kits, by far, are the dropper style kits. They are much more accurate and cost effective. This is the bst dal on the net for a freshwater master test kit: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...id1=3233;pcid2= Gauranteed to last your for quite some time too!


Well, if you can get your filtration fixed ASAP, then you can figure out wether this is a parasitic thing, or a water quality thing, or both. I can assure you that becasue you are seeing these black patches forming, your fish have recently been exposed to ammonia well over 1ppm. levels of 2-3ppm have been known to cause burns on already weakened fish. The best news about it is the fact that it is a sign of the healing process. that means that the water is no longer as toxic as it was. However, because of the lingering .25 for ammonia, the bio-filter is not, and may not become, fully cycled. Keep the ammonia less then 1ppm. Change as much water, as often as it needs it, to keep it below that level.


Hope that helps.....


Post back wth those pcs real soon!


Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for all the information!

OH NO! I guess I spoke too soon! Shimmer's blackness is really fading now, and for the last couple days his fins were up and he looked SO much better. Mo still has quite a bit of blackness, but his started a few days later than Shimmer's, so he's probably just a few days behind Shimmer in that regard.

BUT NOW, Shimmer's fins are clamped tight again, and I've seen some spasming or rapid shaking of his top fin! What's going on here??! He seemed so much better, but now he looks bad again! I tested the ammonia just now, and it looked pretty good to me. It looked like 0 or maybe between 0 and .25 . I had it checked yesterday at a pet shop, and he said the same thing. He said it looked good, like almost 0, but there could be just a trace amount, like .1 (Not 1, but .1).
This isn't significant enough to have a big affect on the fish, is it? He said nitrItes were 0, and pH was good at 7.4 . It seems like Mo is doing okay, although he still has the black stuff, as I already said. But his fins are up, and he seems basically okay.

SO, What's WRONG with Shimmer?? Do you think I should do another treatment of the Prazi-Pro and .3% salt?? Should one treatment of that be enough to get rid of all flukes, if that's what they have or had? Or should I go ahead and try a different parasite treatment like Quick Cure? Or an antibiotic, or antibiotic food? I've heard that Quick Cure can be quite stressful on fish, and these guys have already been through a lot and are probably in a weakened condition! But I want to do what I can to help them!! (Especially Shimmer, who just never seems to get completely better!)

Please HELP!! I have not gotten another filter yet, but do you think that would make that much of a difference, as far as the symptoms Shimmer is having?? (Clamped fins, etc.).

Please write back soon!! And if you think I should do another type of parasite treatment like Q.C., please try to think of and explain the simplest way I could do it. Since I maybe can't do it in a more complicated way because of needing others to help me. THANK YOU!!

- Jill

Paul,

Could it still be flukes? Maybe they had a REALLY bad case of that!!

Should I add the .3% salt again, and see if that helps??!! Or do Prazi-Pro again?

My sister just said that she would be willing to help with salt dips, if you think that's important or would be a really good idea.

If we do that, - the Quick Cure in the main tank (I really think the water params are good), and the salt dips -- could you please explain again in detail, what would need to be done??! Like how you make the right concentration of salt water for salt dips, in how large of a container, etc. etc. And how long you leave them in there and what to watch for when they're ready to get out, etc. Also, would you do just one fish at a time?

Hope to hear SOON!! I want to get rid of whatever these guys have!! (or girls, I don't really know what they are, but I guess that's not important) It's something that just never seems to completely go away! (But why does Shimmer seem to get temporarily better?? I just don't get this.) I guess I'm hesitant to do Quick Cure b/c I've heard it's quite stressful on them and can put them over the edge. Is this true? But I want to do whatever might finally get rid of this problem. Thanks!

- Jill

Hi again!

I'm so confused! Last night at feeding time, Shimmer perked up and had his fins up, and was interested in eating! And now this morning, his fins are straight up and he looks pretty good!! What does this mean!!?? Why does he sometimes look really good, and at other times has clamped fins, rapid shaking of fins, etc.??

Is this normal? Could he still be recovering, and that he'll be okay? Or can they act okay some of the time even if they have parasites?? It's hard to figure this out. And it's hard to know whether to treat with more medication, when I'm not really sure how sick he is. I'm one who doesn't want to over-medicate, because I've heard that medication can be hard on them and they can develop an immunity to them, and then the meds won't help anyway. OR the meds can push them over the edge if they're already in a sick or weakened condition.

Anyway, let me know what you think. I'll treat with medication if you think that would be the best way to go. Or I'll just keep a close watch on them, or whatever. Write back SOON! Thanks so much!

-- Jill

(His blackness is really fading, which means the burns are healing or healed, right? By the way, the water temperature is usually about 70 or 72 degrees, and the pH is about 7.4, so the trace amount of ammonia present should not be toxic according to that chart you referred me to).

I think your fish have parasites. Probably chilodonella or tetrahymena. Costia and flukes are possibilities as well. Or any combination of the above. A microscope is the best way to diagnose the exact pathogen involved. Without an ID of the culprit, we can only assume things and suggest broad spectrum treatments. Or, in the very least, suggest a specific order of treatments to get an idea of what your messing with......

The protocol for blind treatment goes like this:


First treat with a full regime of Prazi (either by Parasite Clear or by regular Prazi.) A full treatment means 1 addition of prazi, every 3 days for a week and a half. If the flashing and scratching stops, great, you just destroyed a fluke infestation. OR, you can run the Prazi right along with the salt level below:

If flashing continues through the Prazi, raise the salinity to 0.3% for 3-4 weeks total. If by the end of week, there is no real progress, something harder is in order. This is when a Formalin Malachite green med must be used. Rid ICH+ or rid ich or Quick cure are some names to look for. Treat for 3-5 days straight with large waterchanges in between med additions (daily). Salt dips are a great way to remove excess slime and knock down many adult parsites. Then its into a freshwater vat for 30 minutes to recover before being added to the freshly dosed. Salts dips on days 1, 2 and 3, break for a day, then one more for the last days addition (5 days total). If this does not work, its Potassium Permanganate time. I will explain everything for that process when the time comes.....


When treating for parasites, it is best to keep the tank VERY clean. LARGE waterchanges, daily. Extra gravel vacuuming during every waterchange. Remove live plants and driftwood. Basically, if its organic, it should be removed as most chemicals efficacy is reduced by ANY organic load in the water.

It is my opinion that if a tough parasite is encountered (ie. drug or salt resistancies), the tank should be stripped, sterilized and re-cycled using only Bio-Spira or media from a tank that is KNOWN to be parasite-free. Meanwhile, the fish should be treated in an uncycled container with very large, even total, waterchanges every day. This makes for a VERY precise treatment in that the effective levels of medication are not being expended, prematurely, on organic matter found in the filter, gravel, plants and driftwood. Since there is no cycle to worry about, you can use chemicals that can set bio-filtration back. Conversely, you will only need to monitor ammonia levels. Being that ammonia has a buffered zone, this makes things a bit easier when it comes to controlling the water quality during treatments. No nitrItes!


All in all, your fish are basically living with the parasites as any dog with fleas would. Some days are bad, others are better. But, let the water quality, or their health, diminish, and the parasites get a foot in the door. that when they REALLY let you know what they're capable of. I would put them through the order of treatments above, very soon.

Be persistant.

Sorry, just saw that you had several post since yesterday....


Rest assured, if your fish are having good days, bad days, are still generally healthy and eating, none of the medications I mentioned above are so hard it will kill them. As long as you pay special attention to them for the first 30 minutes to an hour of the first additions of meds, they should be fine.

The directions for treatment should be on every package of the meds I suggeted above. I'll be back to explain the salt dips in a bit...


Paul

Hi again Paul,

Now, for the last 2 or 3 days, both Shimmer and Mo seem to be doing GREAT! Shimmer has his fins up, and is swimming around more, and I haven't seen any flashing, or shaking fins! I have also fed Metro-Med for two weeks now, which may be helping.

I just did about a 35 - 40% water change. Did you say that it's okay to do a 50% water change every week? Most people say to do about 25% every week, but I thought you once said that you do 50% every week. Is that correct, or did I misunderstand you?

Because they're doing well right now, I'm hesitant to start using Quick Cure yet. What is your opinion?? Do you still think I should medicate with Quick Cure? What about how important are salt dips? Because I'm disabled, I have to try to figure out the easiest and simplest way to do things. Please let me know what your feeling is about what should be done. For the next day or two, I think I'll keep a close watch on them and see how they do. But I want to know what you advise. Thanks Paul!

- Jill

Not again!

Well, ever since I changed the water yesterday, Shimmer has his fins clamped, and I've seen some rapid shaking of his fins again!! Mo also has shown some unusual symptoms, like jerky body movements. Oh Boy, I guess they maybe still do have parasites!!

I am thinking of first just trying another round of .3% salt. Would that be okay, or is it not good to do salt that often? I don't think I left the .3% amount of salt in there for the full two weeks. It was probably more like 10 or 12 days or so. How long can you leave that .3% amount of salt in the aquarium? Two weeks? Or 3 or 4 weeks? It seems like they really were showing improvement. That's why I wonder about trying the salt again. And maybe Prazi-Pro again, or Parasite Clear?? What do you think?

If I do the Quick Cure at some point, I just have a few big questions about it. I've heard that it's quite stressful on goldfish. Some sources say to use a half of a dose, and not to leave it in there for more than 120 minutes, and then do a large water change. Is this true or correct? Also, I really have to find the simplest way to do it, and that's why I don't know if I would be able to follow your advice on treating them in a separate, uncycled tank. I dont know how possible it would be to do that. My other big question and concern is that I have read that Quick Cure (or anyhting with formalin) ruins the bio-bugs, or good bacteria, and so would ruin the cycle of the tank. Is this true? If so, would you recommend removing the bag of stones from the filter, so the medication would not ruin that? But then, if the cycle is ruined and the tank gets rid of the good bacteria, wouldn't that put them in even more of a stressed and weakened condition?? I'm just so afraid of using that medication and having things end up even worse than when we began!! If you can advise me on the best and safest way to do it, then I will give it a try. Maybe my sister can help me do certain things, if you think it's important to do things a certain way.

I might just go ahead and try the .3% salt again, unless I hear from you soon. PLEASE write SOON, and tell me what you think. Thanks!!!

- Jill

Its generally recommended to do [I]at least 25% waterchange each week. Its not a magic number or anything, just a minimum. In all actuality, 25% 2-3 times a week would be EXCELLENT. But, thats gettng a little too labor intensive. So, 50% once a week would be better. But, it all bols down to how your water quality is behaving. if your nitrAtes are below 40-50ppm and your pH is steady and stable, then you don't need to do a waterchange. After a while, you will begin to see exactly how much wyou will need to change each week. But, this number will increase as your fish grow and injest more food. More food into the tank equals more nitrAtes to keep below 40-50ppm....


If your fish have stoped flashing or scratching, great, they are either expelling the arasite on their own (it really does happen from time to time) or the water quality has recently gotten better and nothing is irritating their slin anymore OR both. I would lean more towards both. If you ever see another bout of flashing and scratching and it increases in frequency, check your params, if the ammonia or nitrItes are off by a little bit. Fix it. But, if the flashing ever persists, we need to work on a regime for treating them...


So, get that filtrtion fixed soon. Your goldies are growing and will need more bio-filtration. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!


Paul

Hey there,

It seems like you didn't read my very last post, but only the one before that.

My last message said that Shimmer is doing pretty badly again. And I asked about trying the .3% salt again, and leaving it in there longer this time. I only had it in there for probably 12 days or so last time. How long or what's the longest it could be left in the tank at the .3% level?? Which is 1 TABLESPOON per gallon of water, right? I also wondered about trying either Prazi-Pro again or Parasite Clear. -before going ahead with something as potent as Quick Cure. And i asked some questions about Quick Cure.

Since I haven't heard from you yet regarding my last message, I went ahead and started adding salt this afternoon. Shimmer was looking REALLY bad again. He was sitting on the bottom with his fins clamped tight. So as I said, I started salting at about 2:30. I'm doing it gradually. So far I added 3 taBlespoons, and I plan to add 3 more tonight. Unless I hear differently from you, I'll keep salting up to .3% again. Please let me know if this is a bad idea. Shimmer is already showing quite a bit of improvement, with just the 3 taBlespoons I've added so far!! There seems to be a definite link in him feeling better when there's salt in the tank. What does this tell us?? That it is a parasite problem, Or a slime coat problem, and the salt helps with adding electrolytes? I'd like to figure out why he definitely seems better when I have salt in there. This must indicate something. But I'm not sure what.

Waiting to hear from you on whether to salt up to the .3% level, (or just to .1%?)and about my other questions, etc. Thanks!

-Jill

(Does .3% salt get rid of Ich? I don't think they have that, but just wondering what parasites will be killed off with .3% salt)