Yes, keep going with the salt to 0.3%. 1 tablespoon per gallon will get you at or about that level. Don't stop until you have gone at least a full month.

Salt is suppose to kill lots of parasites:

Chilodonella, costia, epystylus, tetrahymena, trichodina and many others.


But, in this day and age, we are seeing a lot of different species of these parasites that are salt resistant. So, be prepared to hit them with something like quick cure in the future, if a month of salt doesn't work. It could very well lead to that.

Did the symptoms disappear before you reduced the salt? And just after you reduced it, they started u again? What are your params?



The salt being in the tank is stimulating slime production and causing the parasites a harder time invading. It is also killing off some of them too. To REALLY understand whats going on, an exam under a scope would be great. Maybe work on procuring a scope, if even for a day or three? With the degree of symptoms (spasms an fin flicking) I think it would be rather easy to diagnose.....


Paul

THANKS SO MUCH PAUL!

It's so great to hear from you, and keep in touch about all this!!!! I really want to help my fishies, and it seems like they're dealing with something kind of difficult and persistent!! (Especially Shimmer, who acts much sicker than Mo. Why would that be?)

Yes, there's a definite connection with the salt and Shimmer doing a lot better! As I started reducing the salt, he acted a little worse. But then, the other day, when I changed the water again, which probably took the last of the salt out of there, he REALLY started acting bad!! He sat right on the bottom (on the gravel) and had his fins clamped tight. And now that I am adding salt again, he's acting MUCH better!! It's Amazing how much the salt seems to help him feel better!! WOW! Do you think that means it's killing off the parasites? Or could it be a gill problem or slime coat problem? Or all of the above?

Anyway, I'll keep adding the salt till I get to the .3% level. And then leave it in there a month?? Some sources say not to leave it at that level for more than 2 weeks. But you think a month is okay? I'll definitely do that if you thnk that's best. I just don't want it to cause problems for Mo or both of them in the long run. I've heard that it messes up their osmoregulation? Is that correct? What really is osmo-regulation anyway?

Keep in touch!! Thanks!
-Jill

Osmoregulations is best described here: http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/osmoregulation.htm


Don't worry, a month in 0.3% salt is nothing but a walk in the park for a goldfish....



If you still have measurable nitrItes, then it could still very well be the nitrItes causing the flashing and scrathing and heavy breathing. Remember, you have to test EVERY day and change as much water as needed to keep them low.

What are the recent test results for ammonia and nitrItes?

Post back soon.


Paul

Hi Paul (and others),

It's been a while since I've written! Sorry! We've had a lot going on in my family, with my sister being diagnosed with cancer, etc.

Right now, my fishies seem to be doing okay. I have the tank salted at 0.3%, which I think is really helping. Maybe and hopefully, the parasites are finally being killed off by the salt. How likely is it that this will completely get rid of the parasites? Does salt usually do a good job of that? I just really don't want to see them get sick with parasites again!

The ammonia and nitrItes seem to be at 0. The water params are pretty good, except that the nitrAtes may be too high, like 60 or 80. It's kind of hard to tell exactly what color the test water is. This dropper test method is new to me, and seems kind of tricky.

One important question! (Not related to parasites, just a general question) If Paul doesn't see this and respond by morning, I hope anyone out there feels free to advise me on this, if you have any ideas. HOW LONG can a fish tank be WITHOUT ELECTRICITY?? We've been told that our Energy company has to do some work, and so the electricity will be turned off from 9:30 AM to 1:00 PM. So 3 and 1/2 hours. Is it bad or hard on the fish to not have their filter or air bubblers running?? What can be done about this?? What can I do to help them and make sure they do okay for those 3 or 4 hours? I know there are battery operated airstones, which I bought one. But it's a tiny little stone compared to the amount of bubbles they're used to. It doesn't seem like that would be enough! Is there any type of battery operated filter available?? I can't get one for this time, since it's too late, but I will get one for future use if anyone knows whether those are available. Otherwise, what else should or can be done when power goes out? I definitely don't want these guys to die or get sick if it's really stressful for them to not have any filtration or enough air in the tank!! PLEASE let me know what to do. Thanks so much!!

Hope to hear soon! (Like tonight, or before 9:30 in the morning when we lose power!)

- Jill

I am far from being an expert, I am new to this, but in case no one else answers, I just adopted some fish from another member here. I had to move them and drive about 30 minutes, then set up their tank. We put them in a bucket to move them, and they had no filtration or air for about 6 hours while I was moving them and setting up and they were absolutely fine. Only thing I can think of is maybe to do a partial water change beforehand if your levels aren't perfect, since having the filter off awhile won't help the water. Splashihng the water around a little can help with air flow if necessary, but I think they will be fine, since I have been told goldfish do not have to have aeration. But again, I am NOT an expert, I just wanted you to know that my fish were ok for 6+ hours with no filter or air, just in a bucket with a small amount of water. Good luck having no power for awhile tomorrow, ours may go off tonight, we're due for a storm. :-)

Hi

I hope Paul sees this and can help me out!

Last night I did about a 30% water change, added Prime, and added back part of the .3% salt. Just now I added more salt to get it closer to the .3% level.

Help! Now Shimmer is sitting on the bottom again, and his fins are clamped (sometimes up) but mostly clamped! He WAS doing pretty good for the past couple weeks, swimming, eating, and his fins were up. Now, all of a sudden, he's sitting on the bottom, and he even sort of tipped over to the side just now. He looks pretty bad!! What could this be? Why does he seem to do better and then get bad?? Mo (the other fish) is doing fine. If it's parasites, then why is Mo doing okay??

Should I try giving Parasite Clear, before resorting to a stronger treatment like Quick Cure? Should I just wait and see how he does, now that I added more salt? PLEASE WRITE BACK SOON!! THanks!

- Jill

What are the water params?

Sorry I didn't see you posted about the electricity being out. Did Shimmer start acting funny after this happened?

Have the params changed any recently?


Post back soon.

Paul

Hi Paul

Here are the water test results. I just checked it this evening. Shimmer looked pretty bad agin a little earlier, so i added a little more salt. The salt is probably at .3% or even a little higher. Right now he's acting somewhat better. I think he's just really fighting, and trying to act like himself, even though he doesn't feel too great.

NitrItes - 0
Ammonia - 0 (or maybe .25)
NitrAtes - Between 40 and 80? Maybe higher? It's really hard for me to tell, but I think it's definitely 60 or higher.
PH - 7.6

Let me know what you think of these results! The nitrItes and ammonia look good, so at least that's in our favor. If you think I should go ahead and try another treatment for parasites, please let me know exact instructions on what to do. Should I first try the Parasite Clear?? Or figure it needs something harder than that, like the Quick Cure or something?

I look forward to hearing back!! Oh yes, also, what do you think of feeding MediGold food? I haven't given them that yet, and wonder if that might be good for them. A couple weeks ago I gave them MetroMeds, and it seemed like maybe that helped. But it's hard to know for sure if it was that, or the salt or other treatment. But anyway, I just wonder if you think I should feed them Medi Gold antibiotic food.
Thanks for your help!!!
- Jill

First, lets try performing some extra waterchanges for a bit. NitrAtes as high as you are describing could certainly be why he is acting funny. For goldfish, especially fancies, it's best to keep the nitrAtes below 40-50ppm.


Also, have you seen any telltale scratching, flashing, rapid fin shaking, head shaking back and forth?

Hopefully we can get this figured out once and for all.

Paul

Yes, I have seen some fast head shaking back and forth.

How do I do the water changes? How often and how much?? I've heard it's really hard to get the nitrAtes down. Do I add salt after each water change, to the .3% level?

Thanks!
- Jill

Shimmer sits on the bottom a lot, and his mouth slowly opens and closes just a little bit. Doesn't look too good. I think I'll have to wait til tomorrow to do a water change. Write back soon. Thanks!!

Right now Shimmer looks pretty darn good! He's not sitting on the bottom, he's about halfway up (in the middle of the water), and his fins are straight up! I just don't get it!!! But now Mo is having clamped fins some of the time, and looks kind of stressed. I really haven't seen any scratching or rapid fin shaking for a while. So that's good. But it still seems like there must be something wrong that gets them acting sick and weak sometimes. Maybe it is just the water quality - the high nitrAtes. Please write soon to answer my question about how often and how much the water changes should be. And whether to add salt to the .3% level after each water change. It does seem like Shimmer is quite dependent on salt in order to feel good.

Look forward to hearing from you! Thanks!

NitrAtes are actually pretty easy to control. For example, if your nitrAtes reach a level of 100ppm (not advisable), you would need to perform the equivelent to a 75% waterchange to get them down to 25ppm (a safe level to strive for). If they are 100ppm and you perform two 50% waterchanges in a day, it would also bring them down to 25%. And so on......


You should never let the nitrAtes get above 50ppm. If they go any higher than that, it can and will stress the weaker fish in the tank. This stress allows for parasites and bacteria to invade much easier. As with ANY treatment, pristine water conditions NEED to be strived for or the treatment can be rendered null. So, perform extra waterchanges, it can only improve the water quality.

So, get your nitrAtes down below 40ppm and keep it there for a while.


Keep us posted!

Hey, toothless,

I tried to write you to see how bob and stewie are, but for some reason, my pm priveleges must have been taken away?

so, how are they doing?

Theyre doing great! Here's a link to a thread about them: http://www.petbrigade.com/forums/index.php?