Hi Guys,

I've just started to convert my 29g to a small marine setup. Originally I wanted to keep a Fu Man Chu lionfish, but the kids want a nemo, so I'm planning to get a couple plus a few small inverts. No coral or anenomes

On Monday, I filled the tank and mixed salt, and it's been mixing til now (with 2 powerheads).

Do I need a skimmer? My book (A conscientious Marine Aquarist), says I need one, but also says I need at least a 40g tank for beginners.

Hopefully my filtration will eventually be:

5-tray cannister (from goldy tank)
40 pounds of live rock (need to buy this)
Undergravel filter with reverse flow powerhead (bought this stuff specially)

If I need one I don't mind buying it, but I don't want to get it and find it is unnecessary.

Grateful for any pointers.

Slugger

That books is by Scott W. Michael, is that correct? I really like him and believe a lot of what he has to say.

However, I know that it is possible to have a fish-only tank without a protein skimmer. Thats how Im running my tank. For the time being it is fine aside from a small algae problem.

They recommend 40 gallons as a minimum for beginners because things can go wrong much faster in a small tank rather than a big one. However, if you are committed to it and not going to just set it up and let it go you'll do just fine. Another thing to remember is to top off with fresh water, not salt, when it evaporates. Thats the main challenge of a smaller tank is not letting too much evaporate. The salinity levels can change drastically then. I top mine off about every other day.

Anyway the protein skimmer is certainly something you can get down the line if you feel the need for it. Like I said I havent gotten one yet for my tank. However if I were to try to keep corals I would definitely need one. But I also have a ton of live rock and have never detected nitrates in my tank.

Good luck in setting up your tank! Hopefully you can eventually set up the fu manchu tank for yourself, they are amazing fish!

BTW just so you know, get a pair of clownfish and get them at the same time. You cannot add others later on as clowns are very very aggressive (didnt get that from the movie, did we now? LOL)

Thanks for the advice, it's really appreciated.

I'll not get a skimmer for now. Money wise, good thing too because after work yesterday, I bought a chiller. Connected it to the cannister that evening, and this morning, my tank temp is 25C!! Wahay!! Normally my tank temp is 30C.

Sorry for more questions, but I use a floating hydrometer/thermometer to measure salinity and I'm a bit suspicious of iffy readings. Would a difference between say 1.025 and 1.026 affect fish that much?

You've got me worried about salinity and evaporation. Would a swing arm meter be easier to read? If it makes it easier to do, I'm more likely to do it every day

The book I've got is by Robert M Fenner and is easy to understand. I looked for books by Scott W. Michael on Amazon, whew!! He writes a fair bit. Any books you recommend I read?

I plan to get 40 pounds of live rock at the end of next week, provided my tank chemistry is OK.

Originally I planned to get a couple of clownfish sometime in October, but my book recommends I get a grazer (snail or tang) first to handle algae. Do you think this is a good idea?

Again, thanks for the advice.

Slugger

Edited for sp.

Skip the cannister filters. The live rock, and the protein skimmer is the preffered route. The cannisters will produce nitrate.

Return the undergravel filter as well. You want an anaerobic live sand bed, and an undergravel filter won't allow that to happen.

Respect
JET

That is true Jetpilot, I hadnt thought about the sand bed.

Getting a grazer is up to you; Im not able to keep snails on account of my predatory starfish, but you could put in a few when you start getting a healthy buildup of algae. I always preferred to just have some hermit crabs. They took care of the algae on the rock, and I scrub it off the sides myself.

I cant think of any tang species that would stay small enough for that size tank. It would probably be better to skip it.

I love Scott Michaels marine fish handbook, called Marine Fishes. It has everything you'd ever want to know about fish species, what they eat, their max size, compatibility. Its a great book and very useful. I mostly read his magazine articles in the different fish magazines. Bob Fenner is good, too.

The difference of 1.025 and 26 wont affect them that much. If you are concerned about the evaporation you could always keep salinity a bit lower, in the 22-23 range, and then it wont rise too dangerously high if you miss a day or two. As far as measuring, I use a refractometer I got on Ebay. They are by far the most accurate and Ive found them very easy to use. The swing arm one should work well though. One company recently came out with one you can actually put in your tank! I want to say it was Red Sea though I could be wrong.

Thanks for the feedbackjsrtist and jetpilot, your help is appreciated.

I've binned the cannister because it sprang a leak. Perhaps I shouldn't have primed it with my powerhead, duh!!

I'm a bit suspicious as to whether deep sand beds/plenums work, but I'll give it a try. I'll take out the undergravel filter and put in some more aragonite. The most I can do is 3-4", any more and the tank will look rubbish.

I'll forget the tang, and look at snails/crabs instead.

Would it be OK to try and use just 40 lbs of live rock without a skimmer for my 2' tank? Would weekly water changes remove enough of the excess nutrients? I wasn't really looking for skimmers last time I was at the shops, but will have a look this evening to check out the prices/models available.

Again thanks.

Slugger

40 lbs should be fine. As for the skimmer, I keep up on my water changes and have never had use for one. Water changes remove all the substances (such as phosphate, etc.) that the skimmer cant get and add fresh water and minerals to your tank. As long as you are good about doing them you shouldnt have a problem.

My sand bed is about 3" or so and not too deep. With all that live rock you will get some good burrowing worms and creatures to keep it stirred up nicely.

Hi,

I checked my tank this evening and the parameters were:

pH 8.0 (looks like it, but not sure coz difficult to tell different shades of green
KH 120
Sg 1.024
temp 25C

I've got about 2-3 inches of aragonite (30lbs worth) and the water is crystal clear.

I'm going to buy the live rock after work tomorrow. Not sure how much I can carry home (by public transport). I may need to make 2-3 trips.

Slugger

That sounds good! (Sorry, still dont know my Celcius-Fahrenheit conversions though!!) As for the live rock cost was the issue for me so I added a little more every payday for awhile. Now my tank is nice and full.

Hi,

25C is about 77F

Yesterday I lugged 18lbs of live rock home, by train and foot!!

After putting it in my tank, it looks pretty good, but if I buy another 20lbs, I'm worried that there won't be much water left...

Not sure what to do...

Also, what algae crew do you recommend?

Slugger

I have relied just on hermit crabs for my algae. I would use snails but I have a predatory starfish who will eat them. Algae eaters will starve though without sufficient algae so make sure that there is a nice buildup before getting them. The rock will help too. I prefer trochus (pyramid) and turbo snails as they seem to do the best work. Avoid margarita snails; they are actually a coolwater species that will eventually die in tropical tanks.

Hi,

Well I bought another 10 pounds of live rock yesterday instead of 20 because the shops didn't have any nice pieces. I think I have enough for now.

Thanks for the snail tips. Could you send me a pic of the trochus and turbo snails? I saw lots of snails in the shops, but they weren't labelled. I would ask the shop guys, but they're a bunch of cowboys operating on caveat emptor.

Also, last night I saw a mantis shrimp emerge from the live rock. Do you know how I can get rid of it?

Sorry for the questions

Slugger

just take him out of the tank and take him back to the store, try to get some money or trade him for a credit if they will do this. Call in before and say you have a mantis shrimp and he is eating your fish and no one told you this. It is a little fib but you might get a credit for him that way.

Thanks for the tip love goldfish.

I don't think the shop will give me credit, because I bought live rock and not shrimp

Anyway, if he were bigger, I'd try and eat him.

Slugger