Just got a Ryukin a week ago and it developed ICH. I already noticed it brushing itself on the gravel or the plant as soon as I got it, but it didn't have any ICH yet. I was away over the weekend and when I came back yesterday it already has ICH. There's another oranda in the tank and 4 ghost shrimps. the oranda does not have ICH yet and seems to be fine. The ryukin swims and eats fine. The water condition when I left them was fine. There's lots of oxygen in the tank coz I have a bubble wand.The tank has been cycled for 3 weeks before I got fish. I can't isolate the Ryukin bec I don't have a qt.There are live and silk plants in the tank.Temperature is at 74 deg.I have not changed the water since Friday(around 15%). I use Aqua Pharm test kit. Results of the test I made an hour ago are listed at the bottom.


Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? 0
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? 15ppm
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 8.1 (Always been this high) KH 143, GH 250
Ph Level out of the Tap?
* Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 20 gal been running for approx 1 month
* What is the name and size of the filter/s? Penguin 100 and 200
* How often do you change the water and how much? Tank cycled 8/26. Did 70% water change to bring down NitrAtes for 5 days straight.

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 Ryukin, 1 Oranda both 2 1/2 inches long with tail and 4 small ghost shrimps (Got all these at the same day a week ago)
* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime and Tetra AquaSafe
* Any medications added to the tank? No
* Add any new fish to the tank? No
* What do you feed your fish? Spirulina, Progold, Freeze Dried Krill
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? ICH on the Ryukin
* Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? Ryukin brushes itself on the gravel and plants occasionally



What mediication should I give? Can I just do water changes and hope the Ich will go away? I have Maracyn and Aquarium salt at hand, but haven't used them yet.

Any help will be appreciated. THANKS!!

I wanted to edit somthing, but couldn't. I meant to say I already saw the Ryukin brushing itslef on the gravel when I got it, but didn't have white spots yet. Thanks!

I have been told 2 diff things. My fishies got ick and I freaked first off raise the temp in the tank to 80!! ICK can't live in water that hot second I used Rid ICK that I got at a local pet store and it did the trick. It is contagious tho my whole tank got it and I accually lost one!! I was told u can just use salt but I haven't tried it!! So I would just use the stuff u get at the store but please do it quick!!! They won't live long with it mine died after 1 week with it!!!

Thanks. I actually saw the oranda brush itself on the gravel so I think he has it,too. Although he does not have the white spots yet. Do you think the ghost shrimps will be fine if I medicate the whole tank?

THAT IS ACCUALLY A REALLY GOOD QUESTION SEE IM MY CASE MY WHOLE TANK ENDED UP WITH ICK BECASUE i WANTED TO LONG BEFORE I TREATED
IT. I DON'T THINK IT COULD HURT ESSPECIALLY SENCE THERE IN THERE TOGETHER AND THEY COULD END UP WITH IT OR THEY COULD HAVE IT ALREADY. AND U MAY NOT SEE SIGNS OF IT.
I WOULD JUST MAYBE DOULBE CHECK?? DOES NEONE ELSE KNO IF i AM RIGHT??

Buriedalive, Can you please not type in all capital letters? Its kinda hard for us to focus when reading.



Hi Alexis.


Okay, a couple things first:


---Salt can and does destroy ich.

---80-82 degrees does not kill ich, they actually like it when its warm and breed faster. thats why you raise the salinity of the water before you raise the heat.

---Heat should not be used with rid ich or any other malachite green/formalin medication. Very low oxygen levels result and the fish can suffocate. Smaller fish are affected first.

---By far, the safest, easiest, mildest method for destroying ich is this:



To treat ich with salt:


You must first raise the salinity to 0.3% (zero point three). This should be done over the course of 36-48 hours. To do this, multiply your tanks total gallons by 2.5.

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Example: 10 gallon tank - 10 (gal) X's 2.5 (tsp) = 25 teaspoons

So, a ten gallon tank needs 25 level teaspoons to reach 0.3%.

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To bring the salinity up over the course of 36-48 hours, the total amount of salt needs to be split into 3 equal amounts and bagged up into 3 separate baggies. Each baggie of salt needs to be added (pre-dissolved in a jug of tankwater) to the tank every 12 hours or so until the last baggie has been added. Once the desired salinity has been reached, you only need to add 2 1/2 level teaspoons to each gallon of water you add to the tank. Thats it, no more. It is important to remember that salt cannot be filtered out nor can it evaporate. So, calculations and meaurements need to be precise. And again, ONLY add salt back to the water you are going to pour into the tank during waterchanges.

Ok, now that the 0.3% salinity has been reached, we need to concentrate on raising the heat to 80-82 degrees. This must be done slowly as well. No more than 2-3 degrees per 8 hours. Once the correct temp has been attained, maintin heat and salinity until its has been 7-10 days since the last ime you saw ANY ich spots whatsoever.


A few helpful hints:

---Salt dips can and will speed up the eradication of ich. If your fish is covered with ich and still active and/or eats, it will benefit from a series of salt dips at the beginning of the treatment. Check out the salt dip tips in "salt and his many uses" sticky in this treatment forum.

---Gravel vacs will greatly reduce the numbers of free-swimming ich before they can attach to your fish. Perform them daily.

---If you have on or can get one, The Aqua-Clear power heads with quickfilter attachment will filter out free swimming ich. The 1 micron sleeve that goes in the quickfilter attachment is perfect for this. Or, if you have an extra powerhead, you could try going the DIY route and setting up one of these: DIY micron water polisher

---increasing aeration during almost ANY treatment is always a plus.

---Be persistant. Salt can and will kill ich, give it time to do so and you will not be disappointed.



If you have any questions, feel free to ask away.


Paul

Thanks, Toothless. For some reason the white spots (the big and obviuos ones) I saw on the Ryukin disappeared or is less noticeable. Maybe I'm just getting blind from staring too long. Do you think 0.3% is still needed or can I maybe give 0.2% or 0.1% salt instead? A higher dosage of salt is needed to kill even the free-swimming ich, right? I'm actually scared of using it, I'm afraid I'll screw up or something. Anyway, I will follow your instructions to the dot.

So, based on your example below on the 10 gal. Since I have a 20 gal tank, I'll be putting in 50 level teaspoons to reach 0.3% salinity? Also, salt won't kill the bio bugs, right?

Regarding the micron sleeve, will that work if I inserted that in the extra slot in my penguin 200? Or is the Aqua-Clear power head really inteded to eradicate ich alone?Does it cost alot?

Thanks, again!!

Hiya,


The micron sleeve is just an added thing. Not really necessary.

Salt will not wreck your bio-filter in the least bit.

Salt is completely safe to use. Trust me.

Your additions for your tank are spot on.

The ich dropped or fell off and went into the gravel. Within a day or two, it will open up and release MANY free swimmers to re-infect your fish. they will do this till they are either treated or the fish dies. You have to act FAST before it gets any worse.


Again, Trust me, the regime above will work just fine. BUT, time is of the essence......


Paul

Oh, I trust you, Toothless! Am glad you're helping me:D

Just added the first course of salt treatment. Will be adding the 2nd and 3rd after 12 hours intervals.

I will do gravel vac everyday, as you suggested. How much water will I take out? If my water parameters stay good, how much water change is acceptable? I usually eyeball the percentage of water I take out. Since I'm going to add salt to the water I'm putting back in, what is the easiest way to measure gallonage? Pls. pardon my ignorance.

Oh, I forgot to ask. Do I increase the temp after I added the full 0.3% salinity or can I gradually increase the temp now that I have added the 1st course of salt treatment?

Hope my shrimps will be fine. They are really scavengers..and they are not afraid of the fishies! Very amusing to look at them.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

Oops! forgot about the shrimp!

Remove the shrimp for the duration of the treatment. I dont know how well ghost shrimp take salinity. Ill look it up though. Til then, keep them in a separate container with regular waterchanges.

Gravel vac as much as you like, but make sure your heater doesn't become exposed to air for too long. Yes, you can begin to raise the salinity but do it slowly to match your additions of salt.


Good luck and keep us posted.


Paul

Only managed to get 2 out. The other 2 hid inside a hole in the driftwood. I'll try again later or tomorrow if they're still alive. I put them in a bowl with live plants w/o airpump. They seem to adjust to the new environment pretty well.

Already incresed the temp 2 degrees.

Sorry, I'm kinda confused about the water change. If I do partial water change using gravel vac tom. do I follow the rule: "add 2 1/2 level teaspoons to each gallon of water you add to the tank?" I will add the 2nd course of salt treatment tomorrow also so, which do I follow? Sorry to confuse you. I'm confused myself.

Thanks!

Yep, however much water is removed at waterchanges or gravel vacs, thats how much water should be added back (salted as per 2 and 3/4 level teaspoons per gallon of NEW water).


Paul

I guess I was misinformed!!! I was told the ICK can't live in water above 80! i am really sorry i wosn't trying to give bad advice!!! i am really really sorry!!! i am glad i learned. i thought well my 55 gal tank temp is always 80+ degrees so my guys won't ever get ICK!! boy was I wrong!!! I am sorry again!!! I feel soo bad!!

Hi BuriedAlive! Don't worry about it. My fishies are doing well. I don't see the white spots on the ryukin anymore but, I'm still doing the salt treatment. Although there might still be some whitish thingy on the tail. Guess the ICK is still persistent. I'm glad we both can learn from Toothless' advise.

Yep! No worries here. Just be careful of the info you give....