All of this information comes from the various product's web sites.
BTW, I can upload this as a Word text document if someone can suggest a way to do that.
Full Version: Water Conditioner Chart
I couldn't find all of this information consolidated anywhere so I put this table together. Since I'm kinda new to goldfish I was getting confused on all the water conditioners and what to use when. I've seen other posts with people asking what to add when doing water changes. (It seems there is not one good answer--it all depends on your water conditions.) Hopefully this will help "clear" things up!
All of this information comes from the various product's web sites.
BTW, I can upload this as a Word text document if someone can suggest a way to do that.
All of this information comes from the various product's web sites.
BTW, I can upload this as a Word text document if someone can suggest a way to do that.
That is fabulous! Thanks for putting your time into that!!
Nice table. 
My only quibble is that they don't remove ammonia. They just detox it.
Depending on how much chloramine is in the tap water and the size of partial water changes and pH, you may or may not need a conditioner that binds ammonia.
My only quibble is that they don't remove ammonia. They just detox it.
Depending on how much chloramine is in the tap water and the size of partial water changes and pH, you may or may not need a conditioner that binds ammonia.
QUOTE(DataGuru @ Sep 5 2005, 02:25 PM)
Nice table.
My only quibble is that they don't remove ammonia. They just detox it.
Depending on how much chloramine is in the tap water and the size of partial water changes and pH, you may or may not need a conditioner that binds ammonia.
[right][snapback]389850[/snapback][/right]
My only quibble is that they don't remove ammonia. They just detox it.
Depending on how much chloramine is in the tap water and the size of partial water changes and pH, you may or may not need a conditioner that binds ammonia.
[right][snapback]389850[/snapback][/right]
Like I said I got all the info off of the individual product's web sites and all of them (Prime, AmQuel, AmQuel +) state that they "remove" ammonia. So sorry if this is incorrect!! Whatever they do, they make the water safer for our goldies!
And as far as whether or not you need a conditioner that binds ammonia--that's why I recommended testing your tap water/checking with your local city water department. I got that excellent idea from DataGuru and found out that my water is disinfected with chlorine only and ammonia is 0.0. So like you suggested to me in previous posts, I will start using AP tap water dechlorinator and save my Prime for any bumps in my cycle.
Thanks for the input!! I really appreciate it.
Nice job Fantail! Thanks! 
Good Info Fantail, but there are a lot more water conditioners available.
Here's a link to a pretty complete list of all the major brands of water conditioners, that even includes some of the more popular European brands. The entries in the list contain: Product name, deals with chlorine/chloramine, binds heavy metals and links to the manufacturer.
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm
Here's a link to a pretty complete list of all the major brands of water conditioners, that even includes some of the more popular European brands. The entries in the list contain: Product name, deals with chlorine/chloramine, binds heavy metals and links to the manufacturer.
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm
Yeah, there are a lot more water conditioners out there. The ones in the chart are the ones that I read most about when I first joined this website to those are the ones I concentrated on.
I've thought about updating it and adding more products but I haven't gotten around to it yet . . . .
I've thought about updating it and adding more products but I haven't gotten around to it yet . . . .
Wow thanks for pinning that . It is great info. I am a recent Prime convert myself. that stuff is wonderful
How does prime differ so much from the others? I hear it is better...I use Amquel+ with the stress coat. Should I consider switching?
One cap full of Prime can treat 50 gallons of water. If you have small-medium tank, it lasts very long.
The instruction on the bottle states that "if you put water to your tank directly from the faucet, you have to put Prime for the whole volume of the tank. If you put water in a bucket, you just need to add Prime for the volume in the container only". This way save you lots of money. I meant in the long run.
How does prime differ so much from the others? I hear it is better...I use Amquel+ with the stress coat. Should I consider switching?
The instruction on the bottle states that "if you put water to your tank directly from the faucet, you have to put Prime for the whole volume of the tank. If you put water in a bucket, you just need to add Prime for the volume in the container only". This way save you lots of money. I meant in the long run.
QUOTE(chevygurl96 @ Aug 29 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]568174[/snapback]
How does prime differ so much from the others? I hear it is better...I use Amquel+ with the stress coat. Should I consider switching?
how about nutrafin AquaPlus and Cycle? I see them in most pet stores
Hey everyone,
In dealing with a move to a new tank, I found out an important difference between Prime and AmQuel+ that I haven't seen covered here. This was confirmed to me via email from the companies...
Seachem (makers of Prime) confirmed that after a day or two, the toxic compounds become unbound and are re-released into the water. Therefore, regular doses are necessary to keep the compounds non-toxic until the cycle fully kicks in. They said:
However, Novalek says their product does not work like that, releasing some of the components into the air as nitrogen, and "irreversibly" breaking apart the others, while not interfering with the cycle:
and
From this, it seems to me this means the AmQuel+ is probably the better water conditioner for a cycling tank, requiring less and a less strict regime. Prime has its own advantages of removing heavy metals and promoting generation of the slime coat (with Novalek, you need a second product NovAqua+ for that). When you're not worried about ammonia, etc staying around for long periods of time, that may make Prime the more complete choice at that point.
None of this means that I wouldn't still recommend water changes with a cycling tank with AmQuel+ as well. Getting fresh water in without the even non-toxic nitrogen compounds is probably a good idea, but at least there is not a 're-toxification' time limit, like there is with Prime.
AmQuel+ also seems slightly less susceptible to bad ammonia test results. Both require salicylate (2 bottle) tests, but,as I understand it, these tests can un-bind Prime, leading to false positives. They therefore say the best results will be when the Prime dosage is new and at its strongest and to take the reading right away (source: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html)
AmQuel+'s problem with ammonia tests is different, but it is test kit dependent. It will not break down, so you will not need to worry about a false positive. However, AmQuel+ removes dyes from the water, which can unfortunately include the dyes used in ammonia test kits. Therefore you need a relatively hardy test kit with strong dyes. Luckily, Novalek has gone to the extent of testing the compatibility of various test kits for you and putting the results in this little movie:
http://novalek.com/kordon/test_kit_movie/test_kit_movie.html
So the accuracy of the results are more dependent on getting the right kit with strong enough dyes, and not on your execution and timing. For me, that's somewhat comforting, as it takes my human errors out of it.
Hope this helps add to the collective knowledge!
In dealing with a move to a new tank, I found out an important difference between Prime and AmQuel+ that I haven't seen covered here. This was confirmed to me via email from the companies...
Seachem (makers of Prime) confirmed that after a day or two, the toxic compounds become unbound and are re-released into the water. Therefore, regular doses are necessary to keep the compounds non-toxic until the cycle fully kicks in. They said:
QUOTE
If ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates bound to Prime are not
consumed by the appropriate bacteria within 24-48 hours of
dosing Prime, they will be released back in to a toxic
form. If you do not have a cycled tank, you will need to
dose Prime on an every or every other day basis until you
have built up enough bacteria to consume these compounds.
consumed by the appropriate bacteria within 24-48 hours of
dosing Prime, they will be released back in to a toxic
form. If you do not have a cycled tank, you will need to
dose Prime on an every or every other day basis until you
have built up enough bacteria to consume these compounds.
However, Novalek says their product does not work like that, releasing some of the components into the air as nitrogen, and "irreversibly" breaking apart the others, while not interfering with the cycle:
QUOTE
While AmQuel+ dissipates in its actions in the first 24 hours, 48 hours and week after it is introduced (because of all of its actions against chlorines, chloramines, and all toxic nitrogen compounds in the water), this is from its actions to remove detoxify further nitrogen compounds, etc. What it is has removed/detoxified does not become unbound, because the AmQuel+ irreversibly breaks the molecules apart, part of which are gassed out of the water into the air. They cannot reform into their original toxic compounds.
and
QUOTE
AmQuel+ breaks apart the toxic nitrogen compounds, such as ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Part of the broken-apart nitrogen molecules are gassed out into the air. The remains of the compounds remaining in the water are nontoxic. So in truth AmQuel+ is not really "binding" the molecules, as much as it is "breaking" them apart. The remains in the water are immediately then irreversibly nontoxic, and are consumed by the nitrifying bacteria, which apparently do not know (or care) about the new form the nitrogen compounds are in. Therefore, the nitrogen cycle goes through to completion without interruption or being slowed down.
From this, it seems to me this means the AmQuel+ is probably the better water conditioner for a cycling tank, requiring less and a less strict regime. Prime has its own advantages of removing heavy metals and promoting generation of the slime coat (with Novalek, you need a second product NovAqua+ for that). When you're not worried about ammonia, etc staying around for long periods of time, that may make Prime the more complete choice at that point.
None of this means that I wouldn't still recommend water changes with a cycling tank with AmQuel+ as well. Getting fresh water in without the even non-toxic nitrogen compounds is probably a good idea, but at least there is not a 're-toxification' time limit, like there is with Prime.
AmQuel+ also seems slightly less susceptible to bad ammonia test results. Both require salicylate (2 bottle) tests, but,as I understand it, these tests can un-bind Prime, leading to false positives. They therefore say the best results will be when the Prime dosage is new and at its strongest and to take the reading right away (source: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html)
AmQuel+'s problem with ammonia tests is different, but it is test kit dependent. It will not break down, so you will not need to worry about a false positive. However, AmQuel+ removes dyes from the water, which can unfortunately include the dyes used in ammonia test kits. Therefore you need a relatively hardy test kit with strong dyes. Luckily, Novalek has gone to the extent of testing the compatibility of various test kits for you and putting the results in this little movie:
http://novalek.com/kordon/test_kit_movie/test_kit_movie.html
So the accuracy of the results are more dependent on getting the right kit with strong enough dyes, and not on your execution and timing. For me, that's somewhat comforting, as it takes my human errors out of it.
Hope this helps add to the collective knowledge!
This was a very interesting, in depth post. I can see you have all the makings of a TFO - True Fish Obsessive.
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