I came home from school today and I went to go check up on my fishies...Orchard's got tail rot again! I think it might be bacterial like last time. Just a quick review. I brought him home 1.5 months ago, and he wasn't in great condition. He had a little finrot, but nothing too serious, it just looked like he'd been in gross water for a long time. I'm guessing it was just mild fin rot from bad water for a long period of time. Within a few days in clean water he cleared up and his color got brighter, he was more active, etc. A week or two after that, he came down with bacterial tail rot. I treated with Maracyn and Maracyn 2 for five days. Since then he's had tons of new growth...about 2 cms and counting. A few days to a week after treatment was over, I had a hole-in-head scare. This is supposed to be pretty rare, and extremely rare for bettas. I gave him metro-med food for two weeks, and after the first three-five days the stringies stopped. Its been exactly one week since I stopped with metro-med. It looks exactly like the bacterial rot, and is acting the same way so far. Its only on the top half of his tail fin right now. It ate away all the new regrowth plus a little more. All of this couldn't have happened in more than 20 hours or so, because I last checked on him at about 7pm last night, and noticed Orchard was sick at about 3:30 this afternoon. I've got Maracyn and Maracyn 2, and I'm grinding it up for his water change tonight.

Ammonia: .25
pH:7.9

That's all I tested this afternoon; I'll save his water if you would like me to test for more things. I'm just guessing that the nitrate is 0 and nitrite is 0-5. He's in an almost 3 gallon tank with no gravel or filter. I usually change his water every other day, and every other time to every three times I do, I do a 100% water change. I went a few days without a water change ._. I'm guessing the ammonia in the water is what triggered it, but is Orchard like super sensitive or something? I had bettas when I was young and stupid and didn't know anything. One was a flower vase betta with no water conditioner, and I'm guessing I changed the water every 1-2 weeks. They didnt last 2 years, but they never had any fin rot or diseases related to poor water quality. Do you think the high pH has anything to do with this suceptibility? It is usually between 7.9 and 8.2. Orchard is still acting his happy-go-lucky active self, like always even when he is sick. Please help my poor betta

Sheesh, your having one heck of a time with this little guy, arent you?

I think your right in thinking the ammonia set it off, but the maracyns should knock it out.

I have been looking into Almond Leaves for bettas...its really quite interesting. I just got a little guy with fin rot, so I might pick some up. If I do and they work, I will tell you.

Almond Leaves? Is that like an herbal medicine or something? I'm interested

Also...Is there anything I can use to prevent Fin/Tail rot besides cleaner water? I'm working on getting a filter so he'll have a nice cycled tank.

I don't know how it would work for Bettas but I used Jungle brand Fungus Clear (or something like that maybe Fungus away...) on my goldies and seriously within 24hrs they were almost like new and within 48hrs it was gone but like I said I have no idea how a betta would react and the right amount to use and all I just thought I would throw that out there. Poor Orchard he's really been through the ringer lately! I hope he feels better soon!

Bettafix is a tea tree additive same as Melafix but watered down to be the right dose for Bettas. But Ketapang/Indian Almond extract/leaves are meant to be the best thing since sliced bread. Lots of breeders use it. They're the ones with the slightly yellow tanks instead of slightly blue.

Bettas are soft water fish, not hard water fish, which isn't directly related to pH. But a pH of 5-7 might be nicer for him. I think you need to take a sample of his water off to your local aquarium. Get them to run a full set of tests on it. Tell them you think it is too hard for bettas and see what kind of water conditioner they can give you and what dosage to use it for your tank. Also tell them what kind of water treater you use, and whether it does ammonia and chloramine as well as chlorine.

It's often easier to get someone else to do all the thinking for you, I say.

Yabbie, by "local aquarium" do you mean petshop? I don't think we have any "aquariums" around here. As far as my knowlege, Fish/petstores around here are VERY limited other than the petsmarts/cos, and for the most part, their employees don't know much about fish. The only tests they do are pH, kH, water hardness, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Before I bought my test kits a long time ago, I had them test a sample of my water and that's what they gave me. I know I have very soft water coming from the tap (1-5 I believe) and off the chart hard from the hose outside. I have a feeling AZ water is full of little ickies. My kH (buffering capacity) is way off the chart too. To my and other members knowlege, this won't hurt anything, and only keep my pH stable. I want to find out what exactly is IN my tap water. Toothless suggested it to someone on a thread I saw, but I'm not sure how to do that. When I find out, I'll post under the water quality forum and see what goes on. I already use Prime..and its one of the best from what I've been told. Where do they sell Indian Almond Leave extract? Would that or Bettafix be better than using Maracyn and Maracyn 2 to treat?

Isn't Bettafix off the market now? Or am I wrong.

You can get indian almond leaves on Aquabid *droool* and from what I understand you just stick a leaf in the tank until it stops producing...tannic acid? Lemme go find you a link so you can read it for yourself.

perhaps he's a tail-eater?

I hope not!!! I've never seen him go after his tail...how common is this?

Well, I've got indian almond leaf extract and a leaf in my tail bitters tank and he's stopped, thank God for almond leaves... Lauren, I don;t know how common tail bitting is exactly but it can be a reaction to the medications, ect. Tail bitting is more a psychological disorder that bettas pick up from a number of odd/quirky inncidents. If he bit away his tail like you said, then I think he's a bitter and it's not nessicerily tail rot. In this case Indian Almond leaves are your best bet honestly. I'm so sorry to hear he's going through so much troubled times, he'll be dandy soon.

Thanks Tam Should I keep treating him with the Maracyns just in case? I'll look into those indian almond leaves tomorrow Hmmm...is this kind of like a fish type of OCD or related problem?

It can also be an extreme sensitivity to the ammonia. Also - did it happen after a water change? I found that water changes can bring on rot as well in a healing betta.

I would treat with the Maracyns as long as you see improvement!

Jenn

Like fisharenewtome said, keep treating him till it clears.

Okay will do. I'm hoping to get him a filter soon. I found this penn-plax (I think?) filter I got with my 29 gal as an extra. I think its a filter but I'm not sure lol. Does anyone know how it works?

I woke up this morning and Orchard's tail is even worse!!!! I had to go to school and I just got home ( had to clean Jasmine's cage and finish a math test before I left). I did an 80% water change last night and added the fourth day of meds. He's acting fine, and was last night, but I had a bad feeling It hasn't gotten worse progressively, its suddenly. Maybe tail biting? I didn't see any healing before today, which is odd, because last time I saw healing on the 3rd day. Here are some pics:


Orchard starting to recover from his last finrot. Before all this, his fins regrew almost an inch, but I don't have pics.


Here is Orchard four days ago when this all started.


Orchard this morning...


Here's a close up.


He hasn't chaged since this morning.

poor little orchard! i hope you can get him well again soon. mine have fin rot too but not nearly as bad. i hope your little fishie comes out of this ok.

Thanks Kristy

Last night was the fifth and final day of meds, but I think I'm going to keep dosing....do you think its a good idea? I crushed up soe more maracyns and divided them into three piles instead of four. 1/4 of a tablet is for 2.5 gallons, and 1/3 would be for 3.33 gallons. I dosed with 1/3 before. This morning I woke up and it felt like my skull was trying to close over my eyes, and I felt like I had been totally hammered the night before or something...last night wasn't very pleasent for...way too many pet problems. Anywas I went to go check on him first thing. The very top of his tail fin has a tiny bit of healing going on, but the bottom of the tail is now in shreds.

So sorry about Orchard. I know how frustrating it can be. I have a betta that has chronic fin rot that I have been fighting with for months. I am going to look into the almond leaf thing because I don't know what else to do.

But, the Jungle Fungus Eliminator is something you might want to try. Faith, on Bettatalk recommends it. It comes in those fizzy tablets. I have a 3 gallon Eclipse and so I just break the tablet up and estimate 1/3 of it for the tank (1 tablet for 10 gallons). It helped mine, but then it came back.

I have treated with the maracyns several times and another anti-biotic called tri-sulfa. They all help for a little while, then he gets bad again. So I think it is a really good idea for you to go longer with your treatment. That might be what it takes to get rid of the bug he's got.

Right now I am just doing salt and he seems to be maintaining. I am adding 0.5 teaspoon per gallon and he is doing fine. I know salt is controversial for bettas, but I had to do something and it seems to be helping him.

Oh! I haven't been on for two days... Sorry I was not here to tell you that we are wishing Orchard all the very best!

http://www.aquariumguys.com/ketapang.html

I use Ketapang, a source of Indian Almond leaves, for Fafner and for the Rijsttafel (my killifish). I bought it online at the above place. It is supposed to help a lot with fin rot and issues like that - it sounds like maybe Orchard has is having antibiotic rebound - Maracyn 2 will kill the good bacs, too, so if he was on a long dose of it, then off again, maybe he is being sensitive to the tank renitrifying and/or he has built up a resistance... I hope he will get over this fin rot!

Betta Max is no longer on the market but I have seen BettaFix, I think, but the active ingrediant is Maleuca, which is basically Melafix! But in a different dose - that's all BettaFix is - so maybe you want to try just don't buy something new if you already have melafix.

What are the black spots on Orchard?

I really agree with Becky on the Jungle product for Fin rot. It is great stuff. I would give it a try for the poor guy. And I really hope he gets better. He sure is a trooper isn't he?

Those pics really remind me of Bubba - parts are healing & parts are rotting away (rather extravagantly at that). I am feeling soooo frustrated for you right now.

I can say that when I got to this stage - water changes were my biggest culprit. If I changed too much or too frequently - His fin blew out (in hours actually). Also any registering ammonia would cause a blow out as well.

What are your water params now? (Since the meds may have interfered with any cycling)

How much water are you changing at present & does the blow out have any relationship to the water change? (Bubba would often blow out a few hours after a water change - I used to hate going back in to check)

Has the rotting stabilized or is it still progressing? Did you decide on any other meds?

Aack!

Okay, the fins look the same as this morning, so I'll tell you guys what happens tomorrow. I figured out the sponge filter, and I'm cycling it in my cycling 29 gallon right now. Maracyn 2 effects the cycle? I dont have a cycle or any significant numbers of bacteria in there right now since I don't have a filter in there yet. I swear I will go broke buying meds for my fish! I think I'll stick with the Maracyns since it seems to be working now, and I'll take a look at those Indian almond leaves. I've got melafix, but I'm afraid to use that, as well as salt. If this keeps up, I might try keeping a little salt in his tank as a preventative. If this happens again, I'll look into the Fungus tablets Juelse, the black spots on his body have always been there. I'm 85% sure that they are healed nicks or something like that. Thank you all for helping me with Orchard, it means a lot to me

$16 for Ketapang...ouch! Shipping kills! I'll have a look around and see if maybe they have whole leaves or something at those eclectic health food stores. Do you think it could be there?

The shipping is double the price?!

Well, I 'll try to read up, too. It would really be something more to add to the tank as a supplement and and a preventive homepathic threatment and not so much of medicine at this stage of illness - so I would not worry about it now - it will be ok if you get some later. If you use all the time, they say the fish won't get sick later!

How is Orchard doing? I'm to hear that the black spots are "normal" and not more cause for concern - how is his tail doing?



Good question! Notice any relationship?

I forgot to mention it - the black spots look like pigment spots to me from the pics - totally normal!

I'm his fins are stabilizing.

Remind me - what are you using as a water conditioner or are you using aged water? (I have a theory that I'm working on but I want to hear what you're doing first)


Jenn

Orchard is doing better and worse at the same time. The top half of his tail is healing visibly, but the bottom 1/4 is continuing to deteriorate. Poor little guy...he's still acting himself for the most part, but maybe a tad less active. He keeps giving me those betta eyes. Today is the third day of the second round of the maracyns...healing is really slow this time.

I'm not using aged water, and I'm using prime as a water conditioner (at least 2 dops per gallon). I'm trying to do about 1/3 daily water changes to keep the ammonia down. The only time it seemed like the finrot could have been caused from stress and water changes was half way thru this bout of rot.

Hmmmm- what are your actual water readings? Are you still reading any ammonia?

I haven't had time to do much more than add meds...4-6 hours of my day is consumed with hw. I'll test ammonia tonight and post tomorrow afternoon. I dont realy have time, and my dad blocked the computer so i can't get online til 5pm.

Sorry, my brother wouldn't let me have the computer the day before yesterday. I tested the old water after the water change and ammonia was at 0. Ooops! Last night I didn't do a water change and I just added the meds. Orchard totally blew his fins last night, and there isn't any more healing. Today would be his last day with maracyns, but I don't think its working and it might be having a bad effect on him, since blow outs seem to happen mostly during the night after I add meds. Either way, the meds don't seem to be working very well. Its a one step forward, two steps back process I'm going to try and get rid of all the meds in his water. The sponge filter should be cycled by now, so I'll hook that up tonight or tomnorrow and stuff some carbon inside. I'm also going to try feeding him metro-med. When he might have had hole-in-head disease, I fed him that for two weeks and his fins were perfect, and perfect for a week after. I know, its a shot in the dark, but it couldn't hurt. He seems slightly more lethargic....He still dances and gives me his famous puppy eyes, but he hasn't built me a bubble nest in almost two weeks...that's very not him.

Orchard's tail seems to be healing a bit on top today. I didn't add meds last night. This afternoon I put in the sponge filter, and he seems okay with it. He's not scared at all...he's very curious about all those bubbles! I also started him on metro-med again today. He's been diggin around on the bottom like a goldfish all day. The only think I'm worried about is that there is a foamy off white substance in his tank in the corners....