Help-

I am worried about Carrot (again, if anyone remembers her previous illnesses). She's my at least 9-year-old mutt goldfish that I rescued as a feeder.

As of this morning when I woke up, she has been clamping her fins and laying - right side up - on the gravel. She has 4 or 5 small white spots on her fins that might be ick. When I tap on the glass, she'll get off the bottom, pull her fins into the right position, and swim around a bit, but then she'll clamp them and eventually find her way to the bottom again. She has a healthy appetite however.

I got a small new Pearlscale a while ago, which might be the cause of the ick, but what about the lethargy/clamped fins? Are they also symptoms of ick or something else?

What do you use to treat ick? I've seen a few different websites but I wondered if anyone wants to recommend a product.

Airwen

No replies yet? I am very worried..

Hi airwen
Sorry to hear carrot is sick.

Was the new pearlscale QT before joining carrot?
I am afraid I have never dealt with ick so not much help here.
Can you get a photo of her so that when someone with more experience reads the thread they can take a look at her?

I hope you get some help soon and carrots ok.

Salt works best for ich, a .3% salt solution for about three weeks.

1 teaspoon per gallon makes a .1% solution, so add that ever 12 hours until your at .3%

I hope she does ok, nine years is a long time.

I don't have any space or anything to QT. I get new fish so rarely that it has never been a problem.

I.. can't find my camera.. hehe. Bad Airwen! Basically she lays on the bottom with her fins clamped though, there's not much to take photos of but thanks.

What about the lethargy and clamped fins though, is that ick/ich or not?

Ok I am confused. So I'd add 1 teaspoon per gallon - all at once? Or one teaspoon every 12 hours? The tank is 30 gallons.. or 29, I'm not quite sure.

If its 30 gallons, then take 30 teaspoons of rock/canning/aquarium salt and dissolve it in some tank water, then dump it in. Then, 12 hours later, do it again. And repeat in another 12 hours.

I would start with just the .1% solution, and then see if it gets worse. Are you sure it couldnt be breeding stars? Although the lethargy is worrying.

Here's a site I found about Ick (pertaining to bettas, but it does talk about lethargy and clamped fins):

http://www.mushi.petfish.net/ick.html

Does that work better than the commerically available medications?

I am the one who knows more about snails than fish, so.. are breeding stars the white bumps that males get on their gills? If so, Carrot definitely has spots on her fins. She has some on her top & bottom fins and a few dots on her tail, that showed up last night.

*runs off to find salt*

Hi airwen


yes that is correct

Here is a pic showing Ick
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/2002/IIck.jpg

It will basically look like someone got your salt shaker off the dinning table and sprinkled your fish with it.

Clamped fins generally show the fish is uncomfortable/stressed so if they have parasites or an illness they will clamp them.
Hope that helps.

Ok, I sent my dad to the store - any store that's open, at this late hour on a Sunday - for salt. We didn't have any that wasn't mucked up with stuff, iodine and the like.

Yeah, that's what it's like, but smaller spots and much less frequent, and only on the fins. Is that still ick if it's not all over the body? I think I read that it starts in the fins.

I found another site, and my fish also have symptoms (overlapping as well) of internal parasites.. which is oddly very general.



I've noticed their (especially the Pearlscale's) poop looks odd like that. Are internal parasites easily transmitted then, and could they be suffering from.. both?

Or am I being a hypochondriac on the part of my fish?

I have a few questions that might help clarify some things.


Are the white spots you see ONLY on the leading edge of the pectoral fins? Or are there more scattered here and there across the body, fins, wherever?

I haven't seen any results for water quality and parameters. Whats the results for ammonia/nitrIte/nitrAte?

How about pH? And from the tap?

Do you know your KH?

How long ago was the pearlscale added?


Okay, off the top, since your fish is still eating, and assuming water is not an issue, you will need to start feeding her either some medicated food, or some homemade medicated food. Prefferably medi-gold. If you cannot get medi-gold, try searching locally for ANY antibiotics you can get. In fact, do you have any leftover antibiotics in any medicine chests anywhere? If so, what are their names?


Increase aeration if possible. Heat as well. Try 78-82F. But only heat after you have reached a 0.3% level salinity in your tank. Basically, all you can do right now is feed medicated food, perform extra waterchanges (temp matched), maintain salinity and heat and observe closely. If you are located in the US or a country that has antibiotics for fish readily available, try searching out furan two, or maracyn 1 and/or 2. Either of these would be a good place to start for a waterborne treatment. But pay close attention to the ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes when using these meds, perform waterchanges as needed.

Wether or not the white spots are ich, I suspect that the new fish brought a parasite or bacteria (or both) that your 9 year old goldfish has no immunity to. the key is to eliminate the problem as fast as possible so that healing can begin.

You might have to begin thinking about the age of this fish. At 9 years, this is an oldie. If it was subjected to questionable circumstances when it was young, it could be beginning to deteriorate from old age. But, the recently added fish is still making me think otherwise......



Post back soon.


Paul

They are scattered randomly around the fins. I don't think they've made it onto the body yet, but there is no set pattern.

I don't have test kits for ammonia/nitrItes or nitrAtes. I know I should but I constantly forget. I have extra ammonia filter-addition things in the filter though, and when I have my water tested at the LFS it has never been a problem..

I don't know the tap pH. Wow.. I sound like the world's worst goldfish owner. I will go check the water pH now.. aah! *dies* I lost the card, but the water is a lightish blue so I am going to say at least 7.0.

Same with KH, no idea.

Added about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

I can't increase aeration any more than it is. I've been adding salt, 15 teaspoons every 6 hours (I split it up, is this ok?) and I have to do this 6 times, and I just added it the 4th time, and at the end of these 6 times, if I understand correctly, it will be at .1%. I also increased the heat already but I can put it back to normal if that's better.

You split it up..so...

The first two sets would make it .1%

The next two would make it .2%

And the last two would make it .3%

So at the end of the sixth time your all salted up, I think.

You dont sound like a bad fish owner, I mean, you managed to keep a fish alive for nine years. Thats pretty good.

I see.. ok, I was wrong. Thanks for clarifying this.

So I will be adding the Maracyn, medicated food, AND salt?

At least 9 years.. it might actually be 10 this summer.. I don't know. She's older than that anyways, but since she was a feeder I don't know how old she is. She's definitely a fighter though, because she was in a bowl (ok, here we go again with the bad fish owner thing) for 7 of those 9 years.

Ah, well, not having test kits is a very large concern at this point, I would say it should be on your priorities list now. Without them, you have no idea if your water is clean right now or not. Pet shops arent very good at testing and informing. Believe me.

You really need at least ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte kits. I mean, if ANY of these levels are high in any way, it can compromise almost any treatment. I very highly suggest getting them ASAP.

So, are you performing extra waterchanges, If not, gravel vac and waterchanges will help greatly.


Good luck and post back soon.

paul

I just went to the LFS and all the readings came out normal when I got the water tested. This is not a Petco, it's a small fish shop owned by a guy who knows immediately who I am when I come in the door, and has never sold me a sick fish. I trust him a lot - he said all the symptoms are most likely ick, and if they don't clear up, then it's something else. He gave me an ick product and advised me to keep using the salt, but less. Since I added the Quick Cure stuff, I don't think I should be changing the water right now, but if the disease goes away I will definitely.

Did he give you the nitrAtes levels? Just curious. As I stated before, when you go to get your water tested, its BEST to have them write the actual numbers down for you for recording. Remeber, ANY nitrAtes above 50ppm are considered stressful on goldfish. As for ammonia and nitrItes, ANYTHING above 0ppm is bad and signifies poor water quality.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that your friend at the shop is wrong. Its just that actually knowing what the results were, for yourself and for us to help you properly, are intregal in a successful treatment of anything.


As far as not using salt (or not much of it??), do what you must, but I can promise you that salt alone will kill the ich. No need to put the fish through any unessecary stress of medications. But, again, do what you must.


Hopefully you have plans for some test kits of your own soon. It would be pretty bad to have an emergency in the middle of the night when the shops closed, and you dont know what to do..............

Good luck

Yup, I know. He assured me that they are normal.

My Pearlscale is getting worse. He's now floating around on his side, just drifting with the current, making hardly any movements. Carrot hardly moves much. I pulled the airstone from the snail tank and put it in the fish tank. I hope they make it through the night.

Pearlscale died last night. What a great birthday, as soon as I woke up I had to bury my fish.

I've added all the salt now, so it should be at slightly less than .3%. I've turned up the heat a bit and have been adding the QuICK (haha, not) Cure stuff, I've done it twice. Carrot is a lot more active at night, though, swimming around and flaring her fins out a bit. I've kept the tank light off this morning to reduce possible stress.

Is there anything else I can possibly do to save my remaining fish?

Sorry you lost her...

Regardless of what your pet shop keeper tells you, WE dont know what "normal" means to him. You have to understand something here. 99% of the time, the people that I help are being given bad advice, poorly taken tests, wrong medications and more bad advice from pet shop employees. Most of the time, when tests are taken, they dont even test for nitrAtes. And even if they do, they dont see anything wrong with nitrates higher than 50ppm.

So, to answer your question as to what you can do for your fish, you can get some test kits for them. I cannot stress enough how important it is.....


I had a pearlscale that would begin to float as soon as the nitrAtes got above 60ppm. NitrAtes VERY commonly cause floating issues in fancy goldfish with round, squished bodies. If your fish shop keeper looks at the nitrAte test results and sees that they are 60, 70 even 80ppm, he might think that is pretty "normal" and tell you so. But, that is most definitely NOT normal for goldfish, especially a fancy like a pearlscale. All in all, you are putting trust in a persons advice that might not even have goldfish at home.

Again, I am not bashing your pet shop keeper, but, if he is as knowledgable as he should be, he would test for everything and give you the actual numbers. To me, "normal" is not a solid answer.


So, I plead with you again, please get some test kits as soon as you can. Without them, or regular test results with actual numbers, I cannot advise you of anything except increasing your waterchanges. But then again, you wont know how much water you should be changing without test kits and regular test results.......



Sorry.

All right. The ammonia test (I think that's what it was) was perfectly clear... I dunno about the others. He has plenty of fancy goldfish though, I think he would know, but I dunno.

Carrot is now laying on her side, arched a bit. VERY lethargic.

Im so sorry to hear you lost your pealscale and that carrot is not improving.
Can you get back to the store and ask him to re-test the water and write down the numbers so toothless can see them?
Im praying for carrot.

Carrot died about an hour ago. I miss her.

I'm going to do a 100% waterchange on the tank cause the Rasboras and the Cory haven't changed their behaviour at all; they don't seem sick. I will add a bit of salt as a preventative measure.

This is the worst birthday ever.

Im soooo sorry That is such sad news, and on your birthday aswell
*hugs*