I think he has fin rot, they are getting shorter and kind of look shreaded at the ends. i tried to get pics of it, but it just isn't showing. also he came out with this weird white bump. it kinda looks like it's under his scales and maybe some scales came off. it's not like an open sore. i've never seen this before so i don't know what it is or how to treat it. the pics are not good but here are some. i've had him for over a year. i put some melafix for fin rot and he had a complete water change today. he is swimming and eating normally, he also sometimes throws himself on the gravel but that was happening before this thing ever came out


http://kristysweets.net/pictures/ghost.jpg
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Hi! Thats an adorable little betta.

The first and best thing you can do is keep his water perfect. Frequent water changes will help alot. If his fin rot isn't bacterial, clean water could help it clear up on it's own.

I am not sure about the white bit on his tail. It almost looks like an ulcer...I'm not too sure what to do about that, but again, perfect water will help.

Hi!

You have a lovely Betta - he does seem very sick, though... Keeping him in fresh water is a very good idea. I am not an expert and I will wait for the Mods to weigh in - but that lesion does look very bacterial or fungal in nature. There are a few medications, easily purchased, that would cover the main bacterial and fungal diseases... Do you have any Maracyn I or Maracyn II? The wound does look more bacterial... the fin rot is most likely an adjutant result of the bacterial infection.

I have noticed that Bettas, being toughies, do not appear to be very sick until the very last moment. But that wound is quite large and has probably grown over some time... ? When did you first notice anything? How did it look and how did it spread?

I have read that Bettas do not respond well to MELAFIX - But, I have seen it work wonders for Fin Rot. However, in more advanced Bacterial infections, it is not very effective - perhaps soothing but not curative. Basically, if the Fin Rot is a result of a deeper bacterial illness, then you will need a stronger medication.

Can you tell us more about his history?

thanks, he is pretty and no i don't have those other medications. all they had at the store was melafix so that's why i got it, we don't have any pet stores around here. i noticed it a week ago, it is bigger than it was then and is starting to go on his back. i'm not sure what you want to know about his history, he's never been sick, not that i know of anyway. unfortunately i did't know about the cycle of water and all that happens to the water, so his water quality has not been good and he's been in one of those little betta tanks. i'm going get a 1 gal tomorrow for him and my other two bettas.

He does have a bacterial disease that melafix wont do anything for. How big is his tank and how often do you do water changes? you will need something that specifically treats bacteria problems.

I am going to go out on a limb here.

Sandy, what about a topical treatment? If she can't get ahold of any bacterial medications, maybe a little Hydrogen Peroxide?

i have him in one of those little betta tanks, but i just bought him a 1 gal tank today. when i first got him i'd change the water regulary, once a week or week and a half, but then i got a new betta tank and it came with some kind of special gravel that's suppose to keep the tank clean so the water always looked clear so i would just add water too it as it evaporated and just changed it all when the water color would change. i didn't know what i now know about the cycle of water, unfortuantely my horrible mistakes made him sick.

Here is a link to some good pictures of Betta diseases in general:

http://www.mushi.petfish.net/bettadisease.html

And columnaris in particular - which is what it looks like your Betta has - showing the classic saddleback lesion of an advanced case with associated fin rot:

http://www.mushi.petfish.net/columnaris.html

This is very contagious and your Betta should not be put in with any other fish until he is fully recovered - if he makes it.

A one gallon upgrade sounds great and if you add a smal filter, you will only have to change the water once a week! But, please remember that male Bettas cannot be kept in the same tank - they WILL kill each other - it is just the way it is... they are very territorial.

I also live in an area without many pet stores so I order everything online - here are a few stores I have used with good prices, fast shipping, and great customer service - if you find a store that is in your state or near you, then delivery will be faster and shipping charges lower. I have noticed that the difference in price for teh same fish meds and equipment is SO much lower than in the petstores that I don't even bother trying to find a store anymore! Even with the shipping, it is way less expensive.... look at the price of the Maracyn II and other meds that would be good for treating columnaris:

http://www.aquariumguys.com/maracynii.html

http://www.aquariumguys.com/tetracycline.html

http://www.aquariumguys.com/furan2.html

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...2&N=2004+113521

I hope you can get some meds soon - I hate to be the bearer of bad news but honestly the prognosis is not good for your fish without medication at this point...

Also, medicated food would help alot - I think someone here has extra medicated food that they might be willing to share... I will try to find that link...

Here is the link to the free medicated foods!

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=34287

Many of us here started out all wrong, not knowing how many water changes to do and when and wound up making our fish sick... please don't be too hard on yourself - they never seemt ot ell you the right thing at the stores and then they leave you hanging when there is a problem! Let's just try to get your little guy through this round and then work on maintaining good WQ.

I cannot tell you the things I have done to my fish because I did not know! I have learned a lot here and now I am all up to snuff on WQ - and still my Betta got sick last week! I have no idea how! So, even when you think you are doing everything right, it can still happen - jus tthe nature of the beast of trying to keep fish in tanks...

thanks for all the great links, i book marked them and i'll order the medicine, i hope they get here in time and i'll contact kissy, she's already helped me alot so hopefully she'll send me some if she hasn't given them all away yet. but i'm not too sure about this columnaris, he doesn't have any fuzzy stuff growing on him or maybe he just hasn't gotten to that point yet and in the pics it looks like their skin is being eaten up, his is more like something popping out of him. i took another pic. i think it shows a little better. and my bettas are by themselves, i don't put them with anything. another question, i have another betta same age as him (got them the same day) and i did everything the same with this fish as i did with that one. he doesn't seem to have anything wrong with him, but should i medicate him just in case? second pic is of him.


http://kristysweets.net/ghost5.jpg
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Sheesh Graham, your all over this one. I never thought of Columnaris!

I wouldn't treat the second fish unless he gets sick or there is a serious case of cross contamination. If you treat for something that isnt there, the bacteria can become resisitant to the antibiotics and they wont be as effective when you need them.

Hopefully the little guy will make it through all this.

thanks for all the help i ordered the meds for him.

I too thought of columnaris, but something just didnt seem right with it, i hope the meds work for you. As for the peroxide i thought this would be for parasites. For a wound like that maybe potassium permanganate.
Let us know how you get on with grahams advice.

i will let ya'll know what happens. and it just hit me, there was cross contamination. when will i start using my brains! ugh when i cleaned their tanks yesterday i used the same water to hold the fish in and i cleaned the sick fish first

Hi - Well, I can't say with any certitude that it is columnaris... If the lesion is bulging rather than indurated it might be something else... but if it spreading, that stillpoints to infection. I would go ahead and try antiobiotics - those are all pretty broad spectrum so whichever one you chose might do the trick - if it doesn't respond to one or two different antibiotics, you may have a tumor on your hands.

I never did figure out what Fafner had but the sulfa antibiotics (I used Maracyn Plus) definitely cured him. He had a white pustule-ulcer type thing in his face that spread to his eye and eventually gave him popeye... It did not match a description for any Betta diseases and believe me, I looked! But, luckily, the Maracyn Plus worked.


I agree with Chishower that unless the other fish starts showing symptoms, you may not want to give it antibiotics - resistance makes them much harder to treat next time... Hopefully, the other Betta will be OK - maybe a nice big water change!

Some fish are just stronger than others - so your other Betta may just have a stronger immune system, you never really know (I'm still trying to figure out what happened to my frog! b/c the other one is perfectly fine!)

Hopefully, I did not insult you with any obvious basic advice on Betta care, but you'd be surprised what some people do - so I just thought I would make mention of - I knew of a patient once, allergic to his dog, he got asthma. When asked how his inhaler was helping him he said it did not have much affect - no one could figure out why... Finally, someone said show us how you are using the inhaler and he said - I can't becasue I did not bring my dog with me! Whenever he had an asthma attack, he sprayed the inhaler on the dog! (This is a true story)! So, I just thought I would mention it just in case... but you seem to have your head screwed on tight!

I hope you fish heals soon!

PS - I can send you some medicated food if you want to try a little...

Chishower - i like your new avatar! I was really well-read up lately since Fafner was sick last week. None of my other Bettas ever got sick! So, I had a lot to learn!

that is too funny! you have not offended me at all about anything, i'm very grateful for everyones help. i just hope he can hang on long enough to see if the meds work. thanks for the offer, but i don't want to put you out. where do you buy medicated food? i looked on that site with the meds but i didn't see anything unless i missed it.

Goldfishconnection.com has medicated food, I believe.

Graham - Thanks. Sparkey likes to keep an eye on me when I am making too much noise.

That whole business about the gravel cleaning the water sounded dodgy. If you don't want to run a cycle in a small tank that's probably a good idea. Cycles are hard to control in small tanks.

Just take out the betta and a jug of water, wash everything else down in tap water then add aged, treated (for ammonia, chloramine, and chlorine), and conditioned water and replace the betta with his jug of old water. Do that maybe every four days and you won't have to worry about ammonia build up.

Also if you could look for an additive called Ketapang or Indian Almond. It does great things for fin rot and sores in bettas (after the treatments have killed the parasites or bacteria).

Yeah - Ketapang Vital- good stuff, glad you mentioned it- I use it for my Betta and my Killisfish:

http://aquariumguys.com/ketapang.html (oooh! It's on sale now!)

I have been wondering if anyone else uses this... How long have you been using it Yabbie? I have been wondering if you really notice a difference... I have seen a difference in my Killifish! But, I have not been using this stuff for long - and why had I not heard of it before? I have not seen it in stores. Is it reallya breeders secret?!

PS - It is absolutley no problem for me to drop some medi food in the mail to you - takes about ten seconds! THe jars are really large and you only need a little bit - and the drugs have a short shelf life so we often share! You can buy it online at Goldfish Connection:

http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/lis....php?parentId=5

I will call Rick tomorrow to double check that a Betta can eat Medi-Gold but I don't see why not in a reduced dose, of course.

The Thai breeders noticed long ago that betta did very well in marshy areas near the Ketapang (Indian Almond) trees. They used dried Ketapang leaves to support bubblenests in breeding tanks and had such good results that they regularly tore an inch square bit and added it to their betta jars as water conditioner.

Malaysian and Singapore breeders also use ketapang and so do the Indonesian breeders.

Australian breeders have been importing fish and ketapang leaves down from Asia for years, and now the extract.

thanks again. i'm gonna try to get some of that ketapang next month, i've spent close to $400 since friday on my fish so my card is maxed out, lol.

thanks a lot Graham for offering to send me some can i email you an address to send to? pm isn't working for me.

Aha! Thanks Yabbie - It's is not so well known in the US (I did not realize you are in Australia) BUT the store who recommended it to me it is owned by a Chinese man/family! Well, I got lucky!

Kristy - If I could tell you in private how much I have spent on major overhauls to take care of my fish, you would pass out! Yes, you have spent a lot! It stinks but at teh same time I think it is really cool how you just went out there and did what it takes to get it right for the fish! We returned some gifts and then I sold items froma former hobby just to keep Graham and then get everything all the fish need.... So, I did the same when I found out I had to change everything I was doing to care for them! I totally feel for you!

IT DOES GET BETTER! I just wish I had found Kokos beofre I got fish! But, I didn't so I have a choice now cough up or let the fish die - I am so glad you are not from the latter group but the former - along with me and most everyone here writing to you. You are not alone! And you are already a very good fish mom for trying so hard!

PS - It takes 200 posts to qualify for using PM - you can reach me at majoya77@hotmail.com

BTW - I just spoke with Rick and we concluded that it would be safe to at least try to feed the Betta Medi-Gold. I will put a note in the envelope wtih the instructions we discussed when I send it to you! (if you wnat to try it) - but with that bulging out thing on his side, it might be worth a shot! I put an e-mail where you can reach me above.

thank you for your kind words and i really appreciate all your help and everyone else. i will email you the address. i think my red betta has fin rot too now, plus some white fuz at the ends hope the medication i ordered comes in quick

Meds, tomorrow, by 2! They will come!

Thank You!

OMG! That's the LAST time we use hotmail! They deactived the account! Apparently, you have to log in every ten days...

Sorry for the delay! Please e-mail me at my private address:
raven703@medscape.com - I will mail the food immediately!

Did you get your meds today!?

so that explains my email coming back to me last night, lol. no i still haven't gotten the meds, but i finally saw the charge on my account for the 22nd, but i was trying to email you to let you know you don't have to send it cause i don't think he is gonna make it. i thought he was gonna be dead when i woke up this morning, but he isn't! he's a tough little fishie, but i'm not sure he'll be lasting much longer. it was horrible last night watching him suffer trying to stay upright and he still doesn't have any kind of fuz growing on him, just that big bump. i'm thinking it might just be a tumor

Hi - well, I checked and I did not see an e-mail form you - raven703@medscape.com -

Did you get the meds yet?

yea i got the meds yesterday so today is day two. he hasn't been flipping on his side anymore so that's good.

Hi kristy. Sorry I told you the meds probably wouldn't help, I wasn't sure what was going on with your betta and I didn't think they would! I have been too busy with my own betta and didn't check on your thread. I totally would have sent you some if I knew, but I'm glad Graham stepped in and helped you out. I hope your betta gets better

Hi - Kissy - I have not sent Kristy anything yet - the meds that arrived came from an online order - I am going to share some Medi-Gold with her is she would like it -but I haven't gotten the address yet....

I was thinking (actually, while I was vacuuming - did you guys read that thread... ) that maybe it is not a tumor but a protruding body organ if - like the swimbladder, maybe - that sticks out becasue the body wall has been thinned, or by internal infection, or both... if you are seeing an improvement already, this is good! Please let us know how he is doing! We have fingers and fins crossed!

raven703@medscape.com

Haha yah I read that thread. I've got some cleaning to do as well...along with about a squilion tons of hw!

I hope your fishy gets better soon Kristy!

thanks you guys, i think his fins are better but that big bump isn't going away. it doesn't seem to be getting any bigger though at least i don't think so. he is still acting normal so i don't know what to think. it was just that one day i thought he was a goner, but he hasn't been acting weird since.

oh and graham sorry i never emailed you the address again, i'm not too sure he's gonna eat that since i think it's flakes right? plus i had got the meds in, but i'll email you the address now if you still want to send me some. and about the organ thing, part of it is on his back too. do you think there is an organ that goes from his side to his back like that?

Oh, Sweetie - don't worry! I just felt badly it didn't work earlier - if you want them, fine, if not, not a problem! They are pellets that should be split in half (I can pre-cut them for you) and then soak in a bit of tank water for 30 seconds. If you feed him a couple a day by hand, one by one (like two in the am and two in the pm) he should eat them just fine.

I am glad to hear he is doing better- at least, not getting worse is an improvement. So, the lump has spread,too? Then it might not be a tumor. But, if the spreading has stopped, then I would think that is very good. The fin rot is getting better sounds good, too. Recently, Fafner was sick for a very long time with a strange lump on his head that was spreading, and it took a while before I got the right meds, he held on tight, and then the stuff started working like magic - you would never know he was so sick a weeek ago! I really hope it keeps getting batter! What are you giving him?

How are the new guys?

my new little guys are doing good. i'm treating them too for fin rot, it looks like they may have a touch of it. so 4 out of 5 of my bettas are getting medicated the one i bought before the last two seems to be in perfect condition. i'm using the Tetracycline, all three meds say they treat fin rot so i wasn't sure which one to try first. yea the lump had spread, it's a big bump on his side and a little one on is back, i keep checking to see if it shrinks, but it isn't yet. you can still send me some if you don't mind and i can cut them. i still have hope that he will make it. i'm glad your Fafner recovered from his illness

i just found an old pic of him, i looked at the properties and it says july 17, 2002. so that means i've had him for more than three years so could this be some kind of old age thing?

Dunno - that would make a tumor more likely - that's a good age for a Betta! (My Felix was with me for two years before he died of old age - He must have been about three years old! That's not too bad. Never sick - not once! (I think depending on how long they are in those containers at the store may affect their longevity... ) Fafner never lived in one of those containers so maybe he will live even longer! Especially since I know a lot more about fish care now!

Re: the lesion, it could be that if the meds are working, the diease process is being stopped but that such a large wound might take longer to heal or may even be scarred?

Gosh, I am sorry - 4/5 five are sick?! At least, mine took turns! I hope they get better soon! Fafner got some weird thing last night... anyway I will make a post.

I put the food in the mail to you! Are you OK!? Do you live in the north of the state? Maybe the mail will be delayed b/c of what is going on... I hope you are OK!

Thanks for sending them that thing isn't getting any bigger or smaller. he doesn't seem to be sickly anymore though, he's swimming and flaring at his neighbor and me some times. he acts fine and i think his tail is starting to grow back, so well see yea it sucks that they are all sick, i don't think they are dying or anything. i just want to stop anything that may be starting.

i'm in the kinda lower middle of louisiana, i live 2.5 hours away from new orleans. all we got was cloudy skies and a breeze, we were so very lucky! everything that is going on is so horrible and sad we were very blessed. we actually have a lot of people from those areas here so our city is doing things to help them out.

my ghost has turned for the worst. he's been on his side since saturday after i changed his water. i've been expecting to find him dead, but he just keeps on fighting! he can still eat. i'm tired of watching him suffer, i don't know what to do now. and jo jo is dead, which i knew that was coming cause he's been wierd since i bought him.

I'm sorry Kristy Bettas these days seem like they have been bred to know end and seem to have lots of problems. I do believe bettas are the strongest fighters tho, so maybe ghost will pull thru. Don't give up hope How are your others doing?

thanks, well it's been a total mess, i've been upset all weekend. first my male guppie died which was my fault i had put some plants floating for when my other one had the babies. well he got stuck on one so was out of the water (i was at work so didn't notice) and he died. then all my bettas, except bruce, are a total mess. i think the medication just made everything worse. saturday morning red was fine then a few hours later i checked on him and his tail was shreaded! so i changed all their water, smooches also has his tale messed up it looks like it wants to split in two places. then jojo has been a mess since i got him so he had been acting wierd and not moving around. then of course ghost was fine till i changed the water then he couldn't get back upright anymore.

then my guppies water was a nightmare due to the cycling process. i had been changing a gal a day cause all i could take out at a time was a gal because of the net with the babies, but then it kept getting worse so i put the babies in another tank and did a 50% change, but one of my female guppies is a mess, clamped fins and fungus. the pregnant one seems to be fine the water was still bad yesterday so i changed almost the whole thing and now it seems to be ok, but midnight is still sick.

then of course jojo died yesterday. this morning when i left for work ghost is finally back upright, but for how long, i don't know

Graham, if you look at this again wanted to let you know I got the meds in. It was funny. I saw this envelope inside a clear envelope from the post office saying they were sorry for the package being damaged and there was all kinds of brown stuff in it which I now know it's food, but didn't at the time. I didn't reconize the address so I thought it was junk mail. I brought it to my co worker and said look at this, it must have passed through new orleans and he says looks like rat poop (except he used a different term) and I said I don't want to touch that, so he opens it for me and I said you better wash your hands after you open that, then I saw your index card and realized what it was and we almost threw it thinking it was something gross that passed through new orleans!

Gosh! I am sorry I was gone for almost a week! Ghost took a turn after five days of doing better?! Iam sorry if the meds made it worse... there are two possibilites, it was the right med but too late, or the wronf med put too much strain on a weakened system. He is still with, though, right?

BTW - are you soaking the pellets first? Not too long may 30-forty seconds to let out the air form comressing the pellets... But, maybe the tumor/infection has reached the swim bladder?

Wow, all the Bettas are in different tanks and they are having problems - I can't tell you in words, I have been there! (ask my husband, he will tell you how kooky I ma not sleeping for days untilt he fish is either better or dead - but dead is worse - as he saw when the frogs went suddenly two weeks ago - b/c I could not help them! It is like a collective effort - they all get sick at the same time and then there are these Zen weeks where everyone is perfect... it always reains when it pours.

That is funny about the "rat faeces"! Can you still use that food? I thought it might longer to get to you, mainly b/c DC mail is the worst on earth, but also b/c of the situation in LA now... but wet and soaked... Well, if it is a tumor, maybe it won;t help after all. Is the lesion still extending from his body?

I am sorry about JoJo! Soemtimes they are just too sick from the stores... but Jojo died with a name, and love, and a memory b/c all of us will mark his passing.

How is Ghost? How are the others? How are you?!

Hi! No biggie about not being on in a week, I actually envy you for that. I wish I had better things to do with my life too work has been so slow and boring, but I think FEMA will be buying 25 of our campers so things will be getting crazy.

I hope you are doing well. I’m sorry about your poor frogs. There is too many dying pets going around. My other guppy died yesterday so if the rest don’t make it, I’m done with guppies. They are so adorable, but not easy to keep alive.

Ghost is still the same, he’s eating the meds (I did soak them) and he’s still feisty, but his face is pale and he still goes on his side sometimes. I think his body is deformed now cause of that bump sticking out so maybe that’s why he is having troubles staying upright. I hope the food is ok, the envelope wasn’t wet, just torn so I still used it. Red and Smooches are the same, they swim around and eat well so I think they will be ok, red is kinda old though so I don’t know,but I’m not gonna put any more meds in their water unless I see things get worse with their fins. i'm just going to keep their water very clean and see how that goes.

here's another pic i just took of him to show you how he's doing. his tail is growing back red, is that normal?

http://kristysweets.net/Image1.jpg

Hi - Gosh - sorry I have not been around - some close family friends have had some very sudden, very bad news... the last two weeks have been really hectic. I just don't want you think I have forgotten you and Ghost, and Red and Smooches!

That's a funny story about the package - did not mean to scare you! I knew the mail might be slow but I did not think it would get flooded, too! I guess the meds are ruined... Anyway, if Ghost a tumor, I don't think antibiotics will make much of a difference, at least external ones. It's hard to see form the pictures that the area is a bump - I guess I thought it was more of a raised area form irritation and inflammation - but it really sounds a bump - the size has not changed at all!

I'm glad that everyone is eating, at least that's a good sign! I will feel absolutley rotten if anything happend to Ghost! I will be checking in more often...

Thank you for your sympathy on the frogs - let's hope it stays restricted to frogs!

And keep us up to date on the FEMA thing - at least if they buy trailors from you (although they will need a lot more than 25)! - we will know they have actually, finally done something!!! Hey - maybe the trailers are for them and not the homeless!

i'm sorry your friends are going trough bad times, i hope everything will work out for them. i will say a prayer for them, i have a cousin dying of cancer right now so i know how horrible life can get and there is no reason to apologize, me and my fish are fine and the meds didn't get wet, the envelope was just torn so i've been feeding them to him. he's been good, he's even got a little bubble nest going on and hasn't been flipping on his side anymore. that bump hasn't gotten any smaller though, but maybe whatever it is isn't killing him and hopefully has stopped growing.

I still haven't heard anything on FEMA yet, which in away I'm kinda glad cause my work pc is a total nightmare right now and i can't hardly do anything on it. they have been buying campers though, a woman who use to work with me is now working at another rv dealership in another city and they usually stock 200 rv's and they are down to 10 and they are buying them from the manufacturers as well and dealerships in texas. all we have in stock is 27 so it would wipe us out. which i really hope they do it cause business is too bad for this time a year usually it's really busy right now, but we are totally dead and worried about possibly closing down if things don't pick up again. we have another rv dealer in our city, they were suppose to buy 25 from them too, but i guess only time will tell. and they better be buying them for the homeless, but of course it wouldn't suprise me if they picked up a few for themselves

Yay! Bubble nests are a very good sign

yea i know, i haven't seen him make one in ages, it's very little though, but it's something i've only ever had one betta make a big nest before though, it was huge layer of foam, i thought it was the coolest thing, lol.