Well, I noticed today, during his water change, that Sismigund was a little bloated. I completed the water change and went out. When I came home, he was lying on is back at the bottom of the tank. I thought he was dead but when I went to take him out of the tank, he moved. I turned him over but he cannot keep from flipping onto his back and he cannot get to the top for air.

I filled a small vessel with water (about 4 inches deep with water - temp. matched), put him in it so it he might get air more easily - that is, if he tries. He is on his back again.

Both the tank and the little QT vessel have the sama params but NitrAtes (although the water in QT is not the water from the tank):

NitrAtes - 3gallon - 10; QT vessel - 0
NitrItes - 0
Ammonia - 0
pH - 7.0 neutral
kH - 80 moderate
gH - 75 soft
Chlorine/amines - 0
runnning - two years
tank size - 3 gallon with charcoal filter
contents - another ADF - for the last two years); no live plants
water change - today
routine - water change and gravel vac every two weeks - no water conditioners or additives as I have been using spring water for the last two years of perfect health in my frogs - I added a new charcoal filter today but I left the old one in, too, to help get teh good stuff on the new one
diet - frozen bloodworms, occasional peas
changes - one month ago (almost to the date) I put a new Betta, form a breeder, in there. They did not get along and the Betta, who showed no signs of illness that week, was removed to his own 3g tank - over three weeks ago

I think that's everything - I noticed no changes in him at all until I saw his tummy today. In fact, to someone who did not know him, they would not have interpreted it as bloat - Sismigund is prenaturally thin and has been his whole life. Even after he eats, he does not look full - and today he looked perfect! So, I thought that was weird and wondered if he was bloated. A few hours later and the answer was clear.

To add a note - Brunnhilde, who is chubby even when fasting, also looks perfectly normal, I mean, a little thin for her ususal self. I hope this does not mean she has something, too...

I read that, while there is bascially little chance for survival, I read that Maracyn 2 might help... I only have Maracyn Plus - if he is not going to make it anyway, I thought I might as well try this - so I added the correctly adjusted for the size of the QT vessel amount of Maracyn Plus (it is liquid).

I have decided that, if he is alive tomorrow and significantly more swollen, it might be best to out him to sleep... I will see if WHole Foods sells clove oil...

Is that the right thing to do - I do not want to do it too soon but I do not want to watch him bloat to horrific and obviously (more) painful proportions if he will die anyway. I have no syringes to aspirate the abdominal cavity - and I am not sure that I feel it is appropriate fo rme to try doing that... esp. as I do not know the casue - if it is bacterial, for example, then aspiration will only kill him faster... I am not going to attempt invasive treatment.

He has lived with me for over years - all his time with me has been 100% disease free. (I do not know how old he was when he came home form the store - they arrived together from the same tank and both have been in excellennt health since they moved in - but neither appears to have grown much in these two years plus).

If I do have to euthanize him - is the clove oil method used for fish OK for my ADF? Thanks for your help...

Sismigund is dead! I can only hope it was old age and be grateful that he did not suffer long - for he was very unhappy looking as he struggled upside down... I am glad he was spared a huge extended abdomen...

I have placed him in the freezer (rigor has already set in) and then release him in the pond in the park tomorrow. I can't sleep now b/c my other half is not being so nice now (or lately) and I'm too sad to fal asleep... he cannot come to the funeral!

I miss Sismigund already and I hope Brunnhilde won't be lonely.

I am so sorry about your little Sismigund. At least he did not suffer for long

I wouldn't place his body in the pond, though, just in case there was any disease present. You wouldn't want to risk introducing a disease to the wild frogs.

I would bury him instead. Sismigund

Awwwwwww.... sorry Graham, those little buggers really attach themselves to the ol' heart stings. At least it was fast and he didn't suffer needlessly.

Oh I'm sorry Jules You're a good froggie mom as well as a good fishy mom and I'm sure he had a wonderful life with you. Keep us updated on Brunnhilde please.

I really miss him! The tank looks so empty and Brunnhilde looks so small and lonely in there all by herself... They have always been together

When I got to the creek on saturday, the water was so low there was no flow, no currnet to carry Sisi away so, I thought about bacs too and decided to bury him near the stream under some heavy rocks so the doggies would not get him!

So far, Brunnhilde is fine, just very confused. Thanks for all your kind words... it is just such a shock! Two plus years and all is fine, never a day sick, and then gone in a few hours with no warning - and the other frog is fine?! Does that mean it might have been old age?

I don't know how long adf's live in captivity; maybe someone else here knows. It is always so puzzling when a sudden death occurs. I just recently lost a ryukin in the same fashion as your frog. Fine and eating one day, and dead by the next day. I got this fish when she was quite large, and had been turned in to the fish store by a previous owner, so who knows how old she was.

Is it possible to get another frog to keep Brunnhilde company? You would have to quarantine the other frog, but at least in the future she could have company.


I feel so bad about your little frog That is one of the reasons I haven't gotten adf's ... they are just so darn cute, that it would be so hard to lose them. Silly reason, but there it is.

THanks, TOS - Unfortunatley, Brunnhilde is now bloated, too I am going to try as best I can to treat her with what I have but is usually not very successful with frogs, form what I hear - but who knows... I am buying clove oil tonight to have on hand in case she does not respond to treatment. In a bizarre and sad irony, it is very easy to get clove oil around here and near impossible to get any medications. I have a pretty good First Aid kit so I have a lot of meds to chose from now - all except the recommended one for frogs which is Maroxy. I oredred ot last week bu the store was out of it so I cancelled the order when Fafner got better. I am trying to figure out if Permoyn is similar enough as I have lots of that.

I will also so salt the tank - there is a debate about salt but it seems to me it is worth trying as the increased osmotic pressure might alleviate some of the ascites and also kill any bacs that may be at work or lurking. I will salt less than for a fish though. I only hope these treatments will not hurt her!

ADF have a lifespan of about five years, in ideal conditions. I have had my frogs for almost two and a half years. I don't know how old they were when I got them but I would say that are both definitely three years old at the very least - three and a half at the most. I guess that's pretty old if you consider that only until recently have they been being given really good water quality. Before, they were getting only once monthly water changes of 40-50% - now that they have no other fish in there and are getting regular good water, they go and get sick! So, I guess three years is pretty lucky considering... I figured they were getting old about now but I was still ready for them to die!

Well, I just finished setting up a hospital tank with fresh water, salt, and Maracyn Plus - but Brunnhilde is alredy dead- and I think she has been for a while as it just occured to me that I have not seen her move for a while... but she was fine this morning and not even swollen... even now she is not badly swollen.

This is entirely my fault. I have figured out that either it was bad worms or it was cross-contamination between Fafner's tank from his recent bacterial infection b/c I used the same siphon, I guess I did not sterilise it enough... I only bought one smalll one as my husband was complaining and I figured that I used to keep ADFs and Bettas together so it would be ok - thinking their diseases were not so similar - they are - they are just more lethal to frogs since they breathe through their skin!

I will take Brunnhilde tomorrow and bury her with Sisimugund by the creek under the heavy rocks so they can be together again. I am sorry! You were great frogs.

I'm so sorry Jules Don't worry, you're a great froggie mom

Thanks Kissy. I just broke down the tank and sterilised it, what a sad night. I am going to sell it this week and I will use the money to complete my First Aid kit so I can keep everybody else healthy and happy. The spot looks so bare after two years that I rearranged the furniture so I could put a lamp and some books there. I am going to get a new siphon for Fafner tomorrow.

I am so sorry that you lost Brunnhilde, too I can just imagine how devastated you are. Please don't be too hard on yourself because of your mistake with the siphon. All of us have done those kind of things sometimes.

Please just remember the good years that your frogs had with you. They were lucky to get such a caring owner.

Well, I am now convinced that it was bad worms as I thought back really hard and I did notice that Sisi had a swollen belly when I took him out of the tank in order to clean it - before I used the siphon which was soaked in Permoxyn for 20 minutes - I should have soaked it for 30 minutes, though - and the worms I had fed them were mostly uneaten and floating at the top looking gray rather than red.

THis does not make me feel less culpabale, just more certain of the cause. Bad worms. Thanks for the kind worms and I will remember that they had a good and fairly long life.

This won't make you feel any better, but I once had a goldfish die the day after eating frozen bloodworms. Then I fed bloodworms from the same package to another fish and had it die. So, I felt at the time that the bloodworms were tainted, too.

Thanks - it does a little, actually, I mean it could actually have been the worms... I should have used a fresh cube and I remembered thinking that at the time - then when I saw them floating at the top of the tank... they must have gone off a bit...

I am sorry to hear about you goldie! I won't feed the worms to GN b/c I hate any kind of worms - YUCK! And your other fish - it does kind of add up, doesn't it? Well, no more worms for me. Thanks again!

I haven't used them, but Hikari bloodworms are sterilized. Since my bloodworm episode with my goldies, I haven't bothered feeding them bloodworms again.