Hey guys/gals,

My fishies are starting to act strange and I would like to take preventative measures before something bad happens. I have a 4 month old 15 gal tank with 2 ryukins in it (one medium size and other about half his size). The readings normally come out perfectly within parameters ( 0 ammoinia, 0 nitItes, Lowish Nitrates).

Last week we had sickness in another tank (our main tank) and had to set up a hospital tank and rearrange some equipment. I gave their normal filter (the bio-wheel with 150 gph) to the hospital tank and bought a new bio-wheel for them in the meantime (the smaller 100 gph bio-wheel). Once the treatment is over for the hospital tank I will give them their established filter back...but in the meantime???

So basically we have a 15 gal tank, 2 ryukins, established beneficial bacteria in gravel, cycled water...but a brand new filter with no BBs adn the filter is currently shy of the 10x filtration by about 1/3 (I figured they would be ok for a week or 2 but now I'm worried).

Ammonia Level - .5-1

Ph Level out of the Tap? about 7-7.2

What kind of Water additives or conditioners?
Any Medications add to the tank? No meds, water dechlorinated


What kind of Filtration? Brand new bio-wheel 100 gph

What do you feed your fish? Gel food/pellets mostly --brine shrimp/peas treats

Any unusual behavior? Like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..?
YES, the larger Ryukin (Peaches) is staying near the bottom with fins clamped, not very active. Also occasionally sprinting to the top of tank, gulping a bubble...then quickly swimming back to bottom and spitting it out. The smaller Ryukin (Cardboard) is starting to harass Peaches by nipping at her when she is sitting near the bottom (for the first time ever!). Also, she is not sitting ON the rocks, just near the bottom about an inch off the rocks.

Nitrite Level? low about .05

Ph Level? 7.2-7.4

Tank size(How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 15 gal, 4 months...brand new filter (about 6 days)

How often do you change the water and how much? Normally about 25-35%/week
----this week did 25% Tues, 35% Wed, 50% Thurs (as I was testing daily readings kept coming back similar to above)

How many fish in the tank and there size?
Add any new fish to the tank? NO

Any unusual findings on the fish? Such as
"grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins, fungus? NO (not yet fingers crossed)

I understand the first response will likely say tank is overcrowded...I want to seperate the smaller Ryukin (still very healthy looking) into a bucket just in case Peaches (larger one) is getting sick.

I expect that with the filter a small 'cycle' will happen as the fiter grows BBs. Is it possible to overchange the water trying to get the readings down and therefore destroy the BBs I already have? (not changing more that 50% at a time)

Is it a good idea or bad idea to do 2 water changes in a day if fish still acting strange and readings still too high? (stressing the fish due to the changes)

Thanks for any responses, I'm just worried because of all the sickness we've already had and want to nip this in the bud.

I'm no expert, but maybe its part of the smaller filter not bringing in enough oxygen? Do you have an air stone in there?

Oops, forgot to metion that we added an airstone last night, but its only been in 12 hours. We also have 1 1/2 plants in there (they have had up to 5 but ate them all and we can't keep up with them)

Here are some pics

Peaches-big Calico Cardboard- smaller red/white

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/xzs...yzx/FISH074.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/xzs...yzx/FISH081.jpg

Hey Littleone,

I was looking at your pics, What pretty fish

I noticed that the water level was low in the tank with the single goldfish....I didn't know if you were changing water when the photo was taken, but with the water level more than an inch or 2 from the top you lose efficiency of the filter (gph) adn don't get as much oxygen injected into the water (it should ripple across surface of the water not drop down to water level)

Hi Sparky,

I noticed you said that your water params came out 0/0/lowish and then you mentioned that ammo levels are 0.5/1 and nitrites are 0.5, sorry can you affirm which one is the case, I'm a bit confused as to whether Peaches might be sick or whether she's responding to the bad water conditions...

The problem with removing your biowheel, is that that is where the majority of your bb is living, so although there is some bb coating your gravel you've essentially removed the majority of your filtration, hence your tank is now undergoing cycling, you may want to consider adding 'Cycle' (concentrated bb), laced over the new biowheel to kick start the nitrogen cycle, seeing you are cycling with fish.

Keeping ammo/nitrite levels at 0 is essential to prevent your fish from getting sick (I know you know this, but thought I'd reiterate it here), it can prolong the time it takes to fully cycle your tank, but you'll keep your fish disease free by keeping water params good.

If you need to change the water more than 2ce a day, have you considered using aged water, instead of water straight from the tap? If you have a main tank that is big enough, and you keep the water params 0/0/0, and the fish in there are healthy, then maybe you could take some water from that tank to change the water in your 15 gall?

I have a goldfish that prefers a small bowl (5gall) (crazy I know, but she hates the big 6fter, she acts 'sick' when she's in there, and as soon as I put her in the bowl, she just loves it and acts fine again, I've tried assimilating her into the big tank, but every time I put her back she gets sulky), and I change half her water daily with water from the 6ft tank, her water params stay perfect and she's as happy as Larry (or Laurie, in her case).

Goldfish prefer aged water, so if your fish are feeling a little bit under the weather from having ammo/nitrite in the water, it may be a little bit less stressful on them to give them 'clean' (0/0/0) water from your main tank.

Separating the two fish is probably a good thing if you can deal with yet another tank! , not so much that Cardboard will get the same thing as Peaches, but by increasing the amount of water for each fish, you will reduce the rate at which ammonia, and therefore nitrite, levels increase.

Hope this helps a little?

Hey Tos,

That is good avdvice, but the main tank (and 2 hospital tanks atm) already have meds (and possibly parasites), so I don't want to mix the water. Under normal circumstances I would do that first.

The 'cycle' you mentioned to kickstart the bio-wheel...is that available at most big pet Supermarkets like Petsmart Petco? I think that might do the trick assuming that all they are dealing with is poor water.

I did mix some gravel from the main tank (drained all the water out) to help add some BBs.

Lol, your fish sounds silly. One of my favorite things about our GFs is just their quirkiness.

Whoa, I didn't know that... I'll have to raise the level with the next water change. Thanks! I was trying to help you and you ended up helping me!

A lot of life works like that, just try to help people whenever you can and it usually comes back multiplied.

Hey Tos,

I called our local Petco and they had a 'cycle' product (nutrafin). I was lucky enough to talk to their manager (who knew quite a bit about fish)and asked him about putting it right on the bio wheel to kick start the bio-cycle and he said that it wouldn't do what I wanted.

He also mentioned that at a specialty shop they might have actual bacteria, but said that most stores won't carry it because it must be refrigerated.

I was wondering about your experience with it? Was there a specific brand name?

Thanks

I think we finally figured out what was going on. The 'new' filter we put on the ryukin tank ran for about 48 hours on the hospital tank it was intended for...and I didn't take precautions to kill any possible parasites that might be hiding somewhere in in when I moved it to the (healthy) ryukin tank so the hospital tank could have an established bio-system.

I think that would explain why they started acting funny after I put it on. I started trating them with the maracyn I used successfully on the other guys (Peaches developed faint white spots tonight after acting funny for 3-4 days)

I have learned my lesson about quarantining new fish!

By adding one small healthy looking fish without the quarantine, I managed to kill a pleco and get 6 healthy goldies sick.

If any mods want to refer to this post and my other post in the 911 section as a lesson for newbies about quarantine, hopefully that can save them the trouble I'm going through.

Thanks for all the replies guys and gals

Well, at least you were able to figure it out. Keep us posted on their recovery!

We finished treatment on our other sick fish so we could give the ryukins back their better filter. They seem better with the anti-bacterial meds and Peaches is finally back to normal activity with her fins out too =)

They seem like they will be fine in a couple days, the maracyn seems to work wonders.