54 gal corner bowfront tank w/UV sterilizer, Eheim 2028 - plastic plants only, black gravel
set-up 29-Aug
2 med orandas
3 zebra plecos
4 panda cories
2 zebra danios (had 7 to cycle, but couldn’t catch these 2 to remove)!


My two orandas have what looks like a thin milky white film on at least parts of them, can see it on the crown of their head. They act fine otherwise. I have a pic of the black and gold oranda which shows in clearly (didn't see anyway to post it with this message).

I have a piece of driftwood in the tank that has white fluffy stuff all over it (fungus?) and it’s also on the side tank walls.

Any ideas about what might be on the goldfish? Suggestions on what to do (if anything)? I'm very concerned about using any meds or salt that could hurt the zebra plecos. The goldfish have had this for several weeks and don't seem to be any the worse for it.

Current water chem, tank info, and complete history of changes to the tank are below. (have water chemistry history too, if that would help)

Thanks,

Mtber


I do about a 15 gal water change every two weeks (changed much more frequently earlier on)

Water chem:

Temperature (F) 80.0 (bumped it up from 76-78 after reading some posts that higher temp may help resolve fungus issues)
pH 7.1
KH 3
GH 5
TDS 281
PO4 2.5
Iron 0.0
Ammonia (mg/mL) 0.00
Total Ammonia (mg/mL) 0.05
Nitrite (mg/mL) 0.10
Nitrate (mg/mL) 20.00

Tank History

29-Aug-03 Aquarium Set-up, added snails
7-Sep-03 Added 6 zebra danios for cycling
14-Sep-03 Added 7 panda cories
19-Sep-03 2 panda cories had white marks, difficult to tell if ich or fungus, started Rid Ich + treatment, 25 mL
20-Sep-03 15 gal water change, 25 mL Rid Ich +
21-Sep-03 8 gal water change, 25 mL Rid Ich +
22-Sep-03 9 gal water change, 25 mL Rid Ich +
23-Sep-03 6 gal water change, 25 mL Rid Ich +
23-Sep-03 Added Eheim 2028 filter, will run in addition to Filstar until biological established
24-Sep-03 10 gal water change, 25 mL Rid Ich +
25-Sep-03 5 gal water change, 25 mL Rid Ich +
25-Sep-03 Added carbon pack to Filstar 2
26-Sep-03 14 gal water change, added Zebra pleco
26-Sep-03 snail ate zebra pleco's tail, removed snails, added 25 mL Melafix
27-Sep-03 zebra pleco dead, added carbon to Filstar 2 to remove Melafix
29-Sep-03 Removed Filstar 2
1-Oct-03 Added heater
7-Oct-03 Added orange oranda goldfish (Mitsy)
8-Oct-03 removed 5 zebra danios, 10 gal water change
9-Oct-03 added 8 watt UV sterilizer from 125 tank
10-Oct-03 10 gal water change
12-Oct-03 10 gal water change
13-Oct-03 Cory died
16-Oct-03 10 gal water change
18-Oct-02 Second Cory died
21-Oct-03 Cleaned pre-filter
23-Oct-03 15 gal water change
24-Oct-03 Third Cory Died
25-Oct-03 Added Black/gold lionhead oranda (Ming)
28-Oct-03 4th Cory died
31-Oct-03 Cleaned pre-filter, 16 gal water change

Wow! Talk about keeping records! I should definitely start doing that! If only I were that organized....

I have one question for you, how old are the orandas? Wen's (head growth) tend to develope a white "film" when they are growing...kind of like dry skin sort of? It's hard to explain, but it's not very opaque, and sort of comes and goes.

I'm not sure if this could be what's going on, but it's a possibility, since everything else seems okay.

I think that the white on the drift wood and tank might be algea...I've heard it can grow white, though it's usually black or green. Maybe it's different lighting? I dunno...

anyways, hope that helps. Someone else might be able to give you some more advice.

Thanks Bubblegoose. I hope that is what it is.

Here is a link to a picture of the black/gold oranda.

http://home.nc.rr.com/johnsaquaria/White%2...%20film%202.jpg


Does that look like a normal growth cycle, or something else?

Thanks,

Mtber

I would say yes....but I'm really no expert, and only comparing to my own fish's wen...but it does just look like new growth to me.
Anyone else wanna back me up?

Beautiful fish

I don't see anything that looks like a problem in the pic (maybe it looks worse in person?) but a few things in your post did jump out at me.

1) Your tank is still cycling, as evidenced by the presence of both ammonia and nitrite, so your water changes should be more frequent than 15 gallons every 2 weeks (probably closer to 15 gallons every few days).

2) Your KH is pretty low. KH is what keeps your pH from falling (which you may or may not know ). Do you have a history of pH (or KH) readings for this tank? Do you know the pH of your tap water? Sometimes just doing water changes is enough to boost tank KH levels, but with a KH of 3 and doing water changes only once every 2 weeks, that's probably not a reliable method of maintaining stable pH for you.

Both poor water (ammonia/nitrites) and instable pH can cause irritation and milky-looking skin. This may or may not be the cause of the white areas on your fish (it could just be wen growth if it's only on the head), but they are still issues worth resolving for the long-term health and well-being of your fish.

Best of luck

Hi,
Great looking oranda I agree with the others that I can't see anything from the photo that would suggest something wrong with your fish, however, I also agree that you should step up the water changes. I'll bet you will notice a difference in the activity level of your fish.

Also, I have heard of an algae that causes a whitish fluff on aquarium decorations. The water changes should help with the algae, too by lowering your nitrate level.

BTW, I applaude your record keeping In May, I purchased several small notepads that I now keep near every aquarium. Whenever I do maintenance or make changes to my tanks, I now make a note of it. Also, I make notes of fish health and behaviour. It is amazing how helpful this has turned out to be! Also, how wrong my memory can be on occasion

I was thinking about your corys and the fact that you have lost several of them. I started keeping corys about 12 years ago, and in the beginning I was keeping them with tropical fish. I came to believe that they were dying because they were being starved to death. They could not compete with the tropical fish for food. I would imagine it would be even harder to compete with goldfish. I moved my corys into a 10 gallon tank on their own, and I now have two that are 11 years old Also, they seem to prefer a temperature in the low '70s f.

Just a thought, if your corys keep dying. I would try to supplement their food, especially dropping some in at night when the lights go out. However, I have found with goldfish this doesn't necessarily work, since the goldfish seem to be able to sniff the food out even in the dark. I still have a clown plec (peckoltia) in with my goldfish, and that little guy has a hard time getting a bite. Unfortunately for him, he is just too darn hard to get out of my planted tank, otherwise he could cohabit with the corys.

Thanks for the replies. I feel better that there probably isn't anything wrong with the Orandas.

Interesting note from Touchofsky on the corys. I also have a 125 gal planted and had terrible luck with Juli Corys in it. About 2/3 of them died over three weeks after putting them in (two separate groups). The remaining 4 have done fine for six months since then. Between that experience and the pandas in the 54, I though that they just might have a high attrition rate early on.

I should have clarified that the 15 gal every two weeks water change is where I intend to be once I get stable 0 nitrite and ammonium readings. Frequency is shorter right now.

I'm interested in HappyGoldfish's comments on KH. My tap water is high in polyphosphates (community well), so I had to get a RO/DI system. I use it with a 30 gal reservoir where I make up a batch of water for changes. For the 54 gal I add 1 tablespoon of Seachem Equilibrium (for GH) and 1 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (for KH). Then if necessary, use Seachem Liquid Acid Buffer to bring the pH to about 7. If I go with a higher KH, the amount of Liquid Acid Buffer that I would need would be cost prohibitive. All of that isn't an issue with my 125 gal planted because I use CO2 injection.

Any thoughts on reasonable ways to maintain a higher KH since I start with RO/DI water?

Thanks,

Mtber

In my experience, I have found the corydora paleatus (peppered cory) to be really tough. I bought 5 of these in 1992, three died last year after 10 years and the other two are still going strong, now 11 years later

Perhaps you could try some of these next time you purchase corys. They aren't the showiest, but they seem to be tough.

BTW, your tanks sounds lovely.

Why do you lower your pH down to 7? Adding acid to lower your pH is eating away at your KH levels as well. You can't use baking soda as a buffer if you're wanting to maintain a pH of 7.0, it just isn't practical/reliable. So here comes that question again - why do you want a pH of 7.0? Goldfish, as well as the other fish you've listed as inhabitants in your tank, will do fine with a higher pH. The plecos and cories may not see it as ideal, but they'll adjust. I have kept both without tragedy, and I buffer my water to 7.6-7.8. So the easy way to incrase your KH level is, stop trying to keep your pH at 7.0 and let it be whatever it is when you add enough BS to bring your KH up to a desirable level. If you really want your pH to be neutral, then use another sort of buffer (such as crushed oyster shell) to keep your pH stable.

I have found that juli Corys are more eye sensitive than any of the other cory
cats. Do you have plenty of shelter for them? I use a long black tube and they all snuggle in their together when they can't take the light anymore. They will still come out when the tank light is on but will take small retreats, now and then. I bury the 6in. black plastic tube in the gravel and they call it home. Hope this helps!

The plastic tube sounds like a good little cave for corys. I used a clay flower pot, turned on its side. One thing you have to do with the flower pot, though, is enlarge the hole in the bottom, so the fish doesn't get stuck