I thought of this earlier today. I'm a vegan, meaning that I don't eat any milk, egg cheese, whey, fish, or meat of any kind whatsoever, so I read alot about foods that have animal bi-products in them so that I'm not eating what I don't want to eat.

Well, I was thinking about going to the store to get a box of unflavored gelatin to make gell food for my gf... Then I remembered: gelatin, including J-ello is made by boiling the hooves, bones, ligaments, tendons, cartilidge, and some times even the skin of cows and pigs to get the desired substance out and then it is added to the gelatin mix, into marshmallows, and candy. (Its also used in shampoos, make up and face products such as masks, cake ice cream, photo film [snapshots and movies] etc...) Gelatin is a protein.

See, now this is where my question comes in. I have read several times here at kokos and other places never to give gf mammals to eat. but in the gell food bi products of mammals are present in the gell.....

what do you guys think? I'm not trying to make any one mad here or convert them over to a vegetarian or vegan diet. Thats not my incentive here. What I'm doing is trying to find out why gf shouldn't eat parts of mammals in there diet. Does anyone know the story behind this? that is, why it isn't good for Gf? Is there some substance in mammal meat that can harm them?

I'm trying to find out if, say, the same thing that is in cow or pig MEAT that can harm fish is present in the hooves, bones ligament,tendons, cartilidge, and the skin used in making jello which could poosible create some long term ill effect on our pet fish. I want to look into whether or not it could possible impact the immune system even on a small level.

(important: and to save some of those who feed gf gell based foods some writting/reply time, I know that your fish are nice and healthy and do well. I'm not nocking you in any way, shape, or form. It's just that I want to look into the LoNg TeRm for my fish).

I know this will take alot of research on my part. But I love research (I'm a college student). I also know that I may never find an answer, and I'm fine with that.

BTW, After my research, if I do not find any evidence showing that the same "product" thats in the meat is not in the gelatin, or if I can not get an answer, I will have my mom make the gell food so that my fish can eat it--because I know that yours do well on it.

Lastly, please don't mock me for this. The only answer that I'm looking for here is: Why shouldn't goldfish owners feed their fish mammal meat? Whats in it that can harm them?

Thanks everybody for understanding.

Hmm...I've never heard of "never give your goldfish mammal meat" but it sounds logical. I'm not sure if it will harm them in like poisonous ways, but my best guess is that its not natural. I'm very interested in this as well! I hope we find out some answers

I don't think giving fish a by-products of mammals as a binding substance is going to hurt them besides the fact that it has no nutritional value to them. It is not what they are designed to draw nutrition from. Higher protein worms and aquatic plants are what they are designed to eat.

There are often allergic reactions in other animals towards beef and wheat products... that's the reason so many small dogs survive on cat food (fish and chicken).

Having said that... carp and yabbie growers have a hard time finding anything that meets all their stock nutritional requirements at a viable cost and resort to using chicken pellets... which have virtually every leftover part of everything in them. Carp are related to goldfish.

Mind you... all their stock get eaten by us "before" the long term effects kick in...

It's easy to see why veganism is so popular.

you know fish food is just fish (so my fish is eating other fish)

wow. didn't know they could be allergic to beef and wheat. interesting.

I'm glad no one got mad at me. I wasn't trying to start a war

Yeah, I know there is fish products in fish food. sad, but a fact of life.

I also didn't want to come accrossed as I was SuRe there would be any long term effects. I just wanted to be SuRe there wasn't going to be...
(did that make sense?)

i had never heard either that fish were not supposed to eat mammal products...i have frequently given my fish pieces of beef, chicken, turkey, fish, shrimp, etc....

i never kenw there coudl be ill effects from this....i never personally saw any, besides a bit of floaty-ness in my one fish after beef.

i was alwyas under the impression that fish foods were made from animal products along with fish....

isnt a vegan form of gellatin made? im sure there would be, it seems everything is available vegan these days.

Shrimp aren't mammals christi

Of course they are, they're just so little, you can't see their mammory glands... haven't you seen the bottles of shrimp milk at the supermarket? You should see the size of the milking machines. They use crabs to herd them into the stalls.

!!!!!

ROFLLLLLLLLLL

You could always try a vegan 'gelatine' type product made from seaweed or pectin (from apples), im vegetarian and i find these easily avaliable in shops.

But it is natural for there to be fish in fish food, that is just what food is in the environment they live in ie underwater, just as land animals eat land animals. Sorry just a point anyway.

Interesting subject, keep us posted if you find anything out, as id be interested to know if feeding mammal products harms fish, mind you i would imagine that marine fish would eat dead marine mammals ie, dolphin, seal etc, if they came accross it,

what about if say a rabbit or water vole or something died in a wild goldfish environment, do you think they would nibble at that? would that be ok? I dunno, just wondering.

Oh and i forgot, piranas eat beef, such as buffalo crossing a river/dead, i know they're different to goldfish, but they're still fish.

Hi,

I haven't posted on a website before, but your topic has interested me also, has made me get off my proverbial and be active in these goldfish messageboard thingys.

My personal opinion of feeding higher mammals to golfish is that it is not that there is anything poisonous in the meat, just that animal muscle/flesh/steak, what us westerners call 'meat' is too high in saturated fats and that the protein to fibre ratio is too high for goldfish with their deranged intestinal systems to deal with.

You were asking about long-term damage to goldfish if one was to feed them animal by-products. Although I have not done research/experiments on fish feeding them different diets (cruel), my gut instinct is that stuff like gelatin, which is relatively easily digestable and low in fats etc is not going to do too much damage to goldies. Feeding goldies a diet high in saturated fats and low in fibre is going to do to goldies what it does to humans, makes them fat, sluggish, constipated(swim-bladder problems) and lowers their immune system making them more suceptable to getting infections/disabling ability to fight infections.

I have heard about some of the older fish farms in the asian regions using recipes including pigs blood and millet, this they have supposedly been doing for centuries.
Although I can't substantiate that information, it sounds logical, feeding the fish up on any cheap, high nutritional content foodstuffs they can get their hands on. I don't really have an opinion on this, just thought I'd mention it cause it seems goldies may have had a long history of eating higher mammals, but again, this was the blood and not the flesh of the animal, which has different composition (blood is fluid, and, depending on what the animal may have been eating prior to slaughter, potentially lower in fat)

My babies get fed a well balanced diet free from higher mammals, but that's just my choice, I have a lot of ryunkins, and other short bodied goldies (including my pride and joy tosakin) that are prone to constipation, they get their animal protein from fish (tuna, and some hake), worms (all sorts), and occasional shellfish (like about once in a blue moon). But, again, only in moderation. A well-balanced diet with a wide array of healthy foods with high fibre and low fat content is the best thing I've found for keeping my fish healthy. Making gel foods with animal gelatin that are packed full of goodies (vegges, wheatgerm, worms, spirulina etc) i reckon would outweigh any negatives that a small amount of animal gelatin would ever have on a fish.

while I am personaly not a vegan, (I admit I avoid meat with bones to keep from feeling guilty) I feed my fish more on the veggie side than I do the meat side, mainly because they are fancyies and I read that a lot of protein could be bad for them, if I am wrong someone correct me. . . besides I think they get enough out of biting me lol

Mammal meat (and bird meat) is not good for fish because it is high in fat, this fat builds up in the fish's liver as they are unable to digest it. Some fish do eat mammals and birds once in awhile. Pike, bass, pirahna among others sometimes eat a drowning bird, mouse or small mammal crossing a river but these do not make up the bulk of their diet. These fish for the most part eat other fish, inverts, amphibians etc. It's rare that they find a mammal in the water they can eat. The obvious exception to this is sharks but they are in not way, shape or form related to goldfish or any of the other fish I listed.

As for geletin, I have no idea if that's safe to use. The only mammal product I feed my fish is beefheart (naturally low in fat) and it is only to speed up growth and used very rarely.

Oh yes, I should also add that I don't give the beefheart to my goldfish, only the other species.

I think that I remember someone telling me not to use pectin for making gel food, because it is not good for fish.

*Edit: Pure pectin should be okay, some pectin products contain other additves that may be bad for fish.