ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20-40

10 gallon hospital tank, started last night with 5 gallons water from established tank
whisper 20 filter (previously running on the established tank-hopefully cycled)
maracyn 2 added last night
new water treated with amquel

1 sick fish
trying to feed medigold (not eating)

water change twice a week-20-30% (on the established tank)


Sylvia had a "pimple" last week (no bigger than the eye). It came up quickly and burst and left a red spot that healed. I had another fish (Mariah) that I saw pus coming out of her side about a month ago, I ordered the medigold then.

I have been feeding the entire tank medigold for about 10 days now. They all have been eating and showing no symptoms except the two fish with "pimples".

Last night Sylvia did not join in the feeding frenzy. I knew right away something was wrong. I tried several time to sink a pellet right in front of her, but as she would go for it, a faster fish would swim up and take it first. She was unable to get a single pellet that I could tell.

I noticed a general swelling on her left side, not as distinct as a "pimple". I set up the hospital tank and moved her so that she could get some food and recover. She will not even go for a pellet now. The swelling has begun to leak blood through the scales. Looking at her from above, her left side is quite bigger than her right.

A few days ago she was being chased by a male who has just developed his breeding stars! Could she be egg bound? It seems definitely an infection, with the pus and all.

What can I do to try to save her? She seems to be deteriorating. I have never had a fish not eat. They are usually such gluttons.

I have the maracyn 2 added and have raised the temp to 82. Should I add salt? Should I begin to treat the main tank with maracyn 2 also?

Hi there.


It sure sounds like you've got everything covered as of yet. I wouldn't worry about salt right now. You don't really want to put too much osmotic stress on her at this point. I would treat both affected fish in the hospital tank. Don't wrry about treating the large tank unless you see any other fish show symptoms of these "pimples".



It's going to be a waiting game for a bit. If you don't see any improvement within the next couple days, you might want to go ahead and get maracyn 1 as well and treat with both. This will give you a much broader spectrum treatment and up the chances of there being some sort a succeptability to the treatment.


Beyond that, all I can do is wish you and your goldies luck. Keep ud posted on your progress.


Paul

Thanks for the quick reply Paul, unfortunately she was dead when I got home from work tonight. I would like to rid the other fish of whatever bug is causing the pus eruptions, it is very disturbing.

I was preparing to move Mariah in and checking the water parameters, and I am getting a nitrite reading (0.25). I guess the filter is not cycled after being run on the main tank for a couple of weeks. I am not sure if I should move her into an uncycled tank since she is not showing any symptoms.

When I first set up the hospital tank, with the filter new, it ran for 7-8 weeks without the disappearance of the nitrite. When I tore the tank down, I moved the filter to my big tank so it would be cycled when I needed it (did not think it would be this quick-less than a month). I think I need to post in water chemistry and see if Dataguru can give me advice on this filter that does not seem to want to grow nitrite eating bugs. I will never buy another filter without a bio-wheel.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, if I were you, I would take the other fish that seems to be affected and treat it in the quarentine tank. Use both maracyn 1 and 2 but monitor the ammonia and nitrIte levels twice a day (morn and night).

But, Before you do that, you should take the filter cartridges out of your large tank and shake them about in the q-tank for a bit. Do this until you get a good amount of brown goo knocked free of the cartridge and its flowing around in the q-tank. Within an hour or two, the filter should have it pretty clean looking again. This brown goo stuff will help GREATLY in getting your tank enough bio-bugs to handle the load your goldie will create. Try the sponge trick I mention below and the beneficial bacters that you are innoculating into the q-tank will have a place to colonize.


It is very common for "cheapo" filters to not handle the bio-load created by fish or wastes in the tank. It's not that you don't have the bugs you need to handle nitrItes, its that you don't have enough space for them to grow. Either that, or the gallons per hour is not sufficient for goldfish or the size tank the filter sits on. I have a link that will help you to realize some of the finer points of filtration and maintenence:

filters and maintenence

I think it would be good to note that using a sponge or two like I describe in the link above is a VERY good way to add beneficial bacteria colonies to your filter. There are other ways such as fabricating a media basket for the filter out of plastic canvas (tissue box needlepoint craft plastic sheet thingies). You just fill the basket with rocks, gravel, or a good media. The sponge or the media basket allows for ample room for the bacters to grow on, thus allowing a larger amount of bacters to colonize the filter than if there were no basket or sponge. Many times, this is all it takes to get those nitrIte reading down.


If you have any questions about anything above or whatever, feel free to post back, I can help you with the diagnosis and treatment as well as the filtration/water quality thing.

Post back soon.

Paul

Thanks for all the good info Paul! The whisper filter I have on the QT tank is rated at 105 gph (10 gal tank), so it should be ok. It has a sponge inside next to the filter media, but I just can't get those nitrite eating bugs to grow. I will see if I can seed it like you recommended by swishing the established filter (from a good penguin!) in the water.

I am going to get a new penguin for my 29 gal. When I purchased it, I thought I was buying more than I needed. As it turns out, I have a penguin 170! The guy at petsmart tried to sell me the next size down, but I said, "oh no, I have goldfish I need a bigger one". Ha. I am learning so much.

I plan to get the 350 and use the 170 on the QT tank. I am a firm believer in the bio wheel. This whisper has made that clear.

I should do the maracyn and maracyn2 at the same time or one after the other?

Can you elaborate on this? I have lots of good gravel.
Becky

Heh, your in luck! I just completed my first one. Here's a pic of what i mean:


[attachmentid=6995]

Basically, its a filter cartridge without the blue/white floss. You put your choice of media in (pea sized lava rock, gravel, chemical media, ceramic rings, etc) and within a few weeks of being in a cycled filter, the media becomes established with beneficial bacteria. I used fishing line to sew the panels to each other. You can use aquarium sealant on the seams if you'd like it to be sturdier. Its super easy to make, all you do is trace your filter cartridge onto the plastic canvas and cut it out. The rest is just measuring what will fit in there and still be able to use your regular filter cartridges too. You can even go as far as to skip using the flaps on the sides and just make a basket to just slide in anywhere. The possibilities are endless.....

What this does is takes the strain of converting ammonia and nitrItes into nitrAtes off of the filter cartridge. You see, in a filter that does not have a media basket, bio-wheel and the like, most of the beneficial bacteria grows on the filter pad. Anytime you clean the filterpad completely or replace it, you are essentially wiping out part or most of the beneficial bacteria that keeps your water clean. Thus, spikes in ammonia can happen for a few days/week after a filter or tank cleaning if a good undisturbed beneficial bacteria colony is not maintained. Especially in tanks that are at their maximum capacity.

This also makes maintenence of filter pads a breeze and prolong the life of each one. Once a good bed of beneficial bacteria is established, you can begin using water straight from the tap to clean the filterpads. So, you can use a hose sprayer, sink sprayer, hendheld showerhead, or whatever has copious amounts of water pressure. With the glory of water pressure, you can clean the living heck out of the filterpad with straight tapwater and not worry about killing any beneficial bacteria. There all still in the filter. This equals quite a huge break to your wallet!


Anyway, I tried not to get too technical on you but I still went a little crazy above. Sorry. If You have any questions about anything, feel free to ask away.....

I am always amazed at the quality of information I get here. Not too technical, you have made it very clear and precise. As a teacher, I appreciate that! The needlepoint statement had me a little confused, but looking at the picture I know exactly the material you are talking about. I have always hated just throwing away those filter cartridges after one month. It seems so wasteful, both in terms of money and it just seemed there was still some good use left in them.

I have Mariah in the QT tank. I swished the gunky filter last night and moved her in this morning. Just tested the water and no nitrites (yet). I have Maracyn 1 & 2 in, so even if the tank is cycled there is that chance of it crashing. If I had one of your media baskets, I could simply keep moving gravel in from the other tank if it crashes. hmmmm.

Precisely! Now your cooking with gas!

That's something that I haven't even thought of before! you can just transfer new media into the media basket each day. As long as the tank that the bio-media comes from is a healthy tank, that is. Cross contamination from tank to tank is certinly a reality when multiple tanks are kept.....


Is mariah eating? Offer her treats often so as to try and keep her appetite going strong. Orange bits make for an excellent treat in that ascorbic acid will readily be taken in and boost the immune system.


Good luck and keep us posted!

Paul

Whoo hoo. 24 hours and 0 ammonia; 0 nitrite. I think I have the proper bugs in place, I am sure due to the swishing. Now, if the maracyn does not kill them.

She is eating like a pig (medigold). No symptoms for her, except pus busting out of her side occasionally. Thats all. I will offer her orange, I am sure she will feel quite special and devour it.

Yesterday was day 5 of the Maracyn treatment. Days 3-5 I was getting about a 0.25 nitrite reading in the mornings, I did a small water change on day 3 but then just added Amquel+ on days 4 & 5. It took care of the problem.

Now I need to decide whether to move her back to the main tank or to leave her here and feed her medigold for a while longer. She is acting perfectly normal, and there have been no pus eruptions since being moved.

I definitely want to get this thing nipped, if there is a chance that there are bugs remaining I would like to finish them off now and not give them the opportunity to re-grow.

I think she has been on medigold for 16 days now. Is that sufficient? Should I go three weeks? Four?

I think it would be safe to say you could go longer with the medi-gold. As for keeping her going in the q-tank for now, That too would be a good idea. When you are finished with the maracyn treatment (are you?), keep her in isolation for a while and see if anything changes with her. Say, a week or two after you've finished feeding medi-gold......

Really, its up to you. I'm just trying to be cautious for you. She might just be fine going back into the main tank.

Paul

Thanks. I just like to pick the brains of someone more experienced. I have lost two fish in the last month and am feeling not so good at this.

So maybe a month on the medigold and then another couple of weeks in isolation? The last dose of maracyn was yesterday, I did a water change today.

I would also like to pick the brain of someone more experienced.

Well, to be as specific as possible, your fish my very well be infected with furunculosis (aeromonas salmonicida). It surely fits the symptoms very well.

To treat, use, erythromycin or enrofloxacin or amikacin. Trimethoprim sulfate seems to work as well. This is an ingredient in medi-gold.

Responds to higher heat (80-82). BUT only if the fish are parasite free. Salt at a 0.3% solution before the heat is raised should keep most microscopic parasites at bay.

This is to be considered contagious and a re-occuring ailment. Preventative care such as frequent waterchanges, stable temp (re-occurs when the temp drops), and a healthy, well balanced diet.

Medi-gold should not be fed for too long. It can and will adversely affect the microbes in your fish's digestive tract leaving proper digestion at a low level. Poor intake of nutrients are a result.



Beyond that, Hopefully someone with more experience can come along and help you further.

Paul

Oh my. I have read many threads here and I have never seen this one. Thanks for letting me know, I do like to know what is (possibly) going on. Knowledge is power, and picking brains is one way to arm yourself!

I suppose I have done mostly what I can do. Maracyn is erythromycin, and she has been eating medigold for 2.5 weeks. The heat has been up to 80-81 since she moved in, since it stimulates immune systems. No parasites that I know of, but who knows? I think I might salt just in case, it won't hurt anything, right?

I guess I will continue the medi gold for a couple of more days for a total of 21 days and keep her isolated for another couple of weeks (with salt). If all is well, I will move her back. If it is contagious then the other fish have already been exposed when the pus was erupting.

Thanks again for all your help. I think (hope) this one is going to make it, even though this bacteria does not seem nice.

Becky

Well, since your temp in the tank is already up to 80ish and you haven't seen any rapid fin twitching, scratching or flashing, I would say that you are pretty well and clear of any parasites in your tanks. When the ulcers were fresh or her immune system was down, the parasites would have made their presence all too clear. I just wanted to be a clear as I could that heat is dangerous to mess with if parasites are an unknown.



Good luck with her, Keep us posted and keep up the good work!


Paul

I learned something I was not expecting to learn. Heat is dangerous if you have parasites. I have totally missed this important piece of information in all my reading (in all my 8 months experience). I guess I got lucky this time.

I did find out that you can feed medigold up to 60 days. I was reading the comments on the goldfishconnection website (testimonials for the medigold) and there is a situation pretty much exactly like mine.



I think I will do the same, keep her isolated and on medigold for 60 days just to be sure I kick this bug. She seems to be fine. Swimming, eating, acting normally.

My Penguin 350 should arrive today for the 29 gal tank, then I can move the Penguin 170 to the qt. It still has no nitrite eating bacteria.

Yep, Medi-gold is good stuff, man.


Heat certainly can be a tricky thing sometimes. Like when a fish gets ich and you go to use salt, the salinity should be raised to its target % before the heat is to be raised any. Or you shouldn't raise the heat with most parasitic meds becasue of oxygen displacement and chemical burns. And things and stuff......


So, still no sign of the cysts then?

No cysts at all since being in the qt. Her biggest problem seems to be boredom. At least, that's how I interpret it. After being in a 30 gallon tank, to be locked up in a 10 gallon seems like punishment. But, she appears to be healthy and loves her medi-gold.

The penguin 350 arrived yesterday and is up and running on the main tank. Today I will move the 170 to the qt. I moved the old filter cartridge to the 350 and the old bio-wheel will stay with the 170 (since they are a little different sizes).

Hopefully this will solve the cycling problems.

Rest assured, once you get the new 350 good and cycled (and possibly a media basket ala DIY from the diy forum) you should have no problems with the water params in the tank. They are the best HOB filters going, in my opinion.



Good luck with her, she sounds like shes got it good with you!

Paul

Well, things can be good for only so long. One of my commons in the main tank has developed lumpy sides. I have started another thread for him (Common with lumpy sides) and moved him into the hospital tank. Mariah is out of her prison and back in the main tank.

I wonder if it is related and should I feed everyone a round of medigold for good measure?


Are they all going to die one by one?

Hmmmm, sounds as though it caught.

I think it would be safe to say that you can treat them all in the same tank. I believe that ALL of the fish need to be treated for it ASAP so as to avoid future outbreaks. Invest in more medi-gold too.

I don't think everyone is going to die on you just like that. This affliction doesnt seem to kill very fast unless it hits really hard. You would know it if it were to hit hard too. Just keep their water at 80-82 year round, feed them well and hit them with a round of medigold periodically. It's going to be a preventative maintenence thing with this affliction. stick to your guns and all should be ok.


Any chance of pics?

Post back soon.

Paul

Here are the pictures I took of Andy when I was moving him into the hospital tank this afternoon. There is one good shot that shows a bad bump on his left side (taken from above).

Andy's lumps

He is moving very slowly around the tank. Not dead yet.

That link does not seem to work. I will try again.

Andy's lumps

Well, Andy still has his "bump", but it has been leaking or draining for a couple of weeks. He seems to feel fine. I still have him isolated and feeding medigold. I found a used 20 gallon complete with 2 penguin filters, heater, and decorations for $40 on craigslist, so he got upgraded.

This picture kind of shows his "sore spot" where the scales are lifted and there are red spots and some white stuff comes out occasionally.



Mariah was bottom sitting in the main tank, so she got moved back to the 10 gallon qt. She had another "pimple", so I think they will live together in the 20 gallon until Andy gets too big.

Sorry I didn't see you posted back. Sometimes threads slip down the list pretty fast.


Well, Andy sounds like hes fighting it well. Sometimes these abcesses never quite go away until it is cut out by a vet. I've seen some excellent results from doing just that. Not even any real scarring afterwards. Maybe something to think about......


Keep us posted.

Paul

I have re-named my new 20 gallon tank the "hospice" tank. Mariah has had a couple of abcesses come up, the last one fairly nasty. Andy's side continues to "leak" pus, I don't know if it will every heal. Here is what Mariah looked like this morning.



Her left side looked as if it was about to explode.



The bump had a "head" on it, that burst by the time I went back from downloading these pictures. A quite large piece of pus just fell out and sunk to the bottom. I removed it with a turkey baster before someone ate it. This picture also shows Andy's side that still leaks tiny pin head amounts of pus, although is no longer swollen at all and the wound is not open.

Mariah has been on medi-gold since June 18, a little more than the 60 days I had anticipated but with a lump like this I hate to take her off. Andy has been on it since July 26.

My other common in the main tank, Gomer, now has a lump on one side. I am hoping he is constipated after his roach ordeal and it is not this mess.

Gosh.....

I am at a loss here. I'm not sure theres anything you can do apart from some very expensive vet visits. And thats even if you can find any locally. You are doing all you can, really.

Keep us posted.

Again, sorry.


Paul

Yes, the situation looks very grim indeed. I think I need to get some clove oil in stock. Andy's side looks pretty torn up and his "good" side has started leaking too. Mariah just looks like a little balloon. They huddle together in a corner by the heater. I am watching to see if they are still swimming and enjoying any kind of quality of life. Whenever I approach the tank, they seem scared and hide. Not like their behavior in the main tank (beggars trying to get my attention always).

Sorry, but I am thinking that you are right.


As for this tank, I would very highly suggest that any remaining fish from the tqank be added to a tank that will suit them. then take EVERYTHING off of this tank and wash and scrub it with a heavy bleach solution of 1:10 bleach/water. Rinse very, very well and let sit and dry in the full sunlight for a day. The combination of the bleach and the bare sun will kill ANYTHING.


All in all, your fish are suffering from some sort of sporozoan. Basically a microscopic, parasitic, spore/cyst reproducing bug. Infection of every fish is almost assured with most small ecosystems of fish. Some fish can becme infected and never show it, they become, essentially, carriers.

Don't feel bad. This happens to many fishkeepers from time to time. Even the best tell tales of their entire stock of fish becoming infected and huge die-offs. Whatever you do, don't let it discourage you. I believe its worth it to keep trying.......


Paul

Yes. Very, very bad prognosis from an internal parasite that causes cysts filled with spores. Always fatal.

Since all my fish are now infected, I suppose that even the two that have shown no signs of disease must be kept isolated for the rest of their lives. As carriers I guess I could never be sure when a small eruption would happen to infect the tank again.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my other common, Gomer has a distinct lump on his left side. I guess I need to move him in with Mariah and Andy until I get the nerve to use the clove oil.

edit: I am just glad that I was not able to follow through with my plans and give my commons to my friend with a pond. They would have infected many, many fish.

Wow, your right. that would have been bad, huh?


Yep, the fish that you have that are infected with this will need to be kept together for the remainder of their lives. I highly suggest that this tank also have strictly its own cleaning stuff and buckets......



Sorry to see you going through this.....

for all your help and advice. I have ordered some finquel from Drs. Foster and Smith because it is supposed to be the best method of euthanizing. I am still preparing psychologically.

Andy and Mariah seem revitalized by the introduction of Gomer into the tank. He begs and acts like normal, and when he is begging they figure they need to be there and beg too!

But, Andy's side is a mess. It leaks constantly from both sides. He has small bumps that cover his entire body and I know that it will soon be time for him. I am not going to be able to do Mariah or Gomer as long as they are looking and acting normally.

I just have a couple of questions to clarify my understanding of parasites, and I know you are the resident expert. I guess I will just state what I am thinking and let you correct me where ever I am mistaken.

Some internal parasites can be treated with metro med or other types of medicated food. But, if the parasite reproduces by spores (sporazoan) it is usually always fatal and no treatment is effective. My fish seem to be infected with a sporazoan parasite causing internal cysts made up of the spores. That conclusion was made because I have had the heat up to 82 degrees with no effects of parasites from the fish.

As you know, another thread has some fish with exactly the same symptoms, and they are being treated for parasites. I just wondered if it would be worth a try for Gomer and Mariah. (grasping at straws-I know).

You are spot on about your assumptions as far as this being sporozoan in nature and there being no "cure".

The thing with this type of affliction is that some fish can be carriers of the sporozoans and not ever show any outward symptoms. Usually an exceptionally well functioning immune system is the reason for this. But, if that immune system is compromised, due to poor water quality or parasites (not sporozoan), then these beasties can get a foothold and begin to reproduce rapidly. There are fish that have lived with sporozoan infected fish and never seem to contract them.

It is my opinion that if a fish does not show any outward signs of infection, then it is worth trying to keep alive. Separate these fish from the infected ones and hope for the best. If a fish begins to show the telltale pimples with leakage, it is most likely going to get worse. This isn't a rule, there are exceptions, but they seem very rare in occurance.

There is probably some way to beat this affliction. Unfortunately, we have yet to discover it. Fish, being one of the least proffesionally treated pets we have, makes discovery of new treatments for new afflictions a tough thing to come by......


I believe that the only reason why the fish in the other thread are being treated for parasites, at all, is becasue of the flashing. This is indicative of either flukes or a ciliated parasite. The sporozoan parasites are not treatable in any way.


I seriously wish we knew more about these sporozoans. If there were even a faint glimmer of hope of ANY treatment being successful, it would be to treat it as you would dropsy. Thus, Maracyn 1 and/or 2, heat, metromeds and very clean water...........



Paul

One more question. About the temperature. I have both tanks up to 82 degrees when we believed this to be bacterical. Should I take it back down? Would the higher heat stimulate the parasites inside the fish and therefore lower heat reduce their growth inside the fish? I know spores are unaffected by anything, so I am thinking about whatever is going on inside the fish body.

When the finquel arrives (and Andy is declining fast-I need it like yesterday) I will have two fish in a 20 gallon that have had symptoms (but appear to be fine right now) and two fish in a 29 gallon that have never shown any symptoms. I would like to do what I can for these that are left.

edit: I just noticed you suggested heat as a treatment (if anything) for this (as for dropsy). So, sporazoans react differently to heat than other parasites?

Those are some very good suggestions that I cannot answer, just yet. I will look into that tonight. I am still very much a novice in that realm of sporozoan "parasites". I believe that sporozoans are more on a bacterial or viral plain than an actual parasitic one, per say. But they seem to be somewhat loosely termed as parasites. All in all, the treatments I have suggested are ones that have worked for others. I haven't had the misfortune of dealing with them myself........

My best guess is that the higher heat allows thier immune system to function at a higher rate, hopefully helping to expel the infections enough to put it into remission. It seems to have worked for at least a few people on this board.


Paul

Becky, just wanted to say I am still following your thread and am really thinking of you! This is such a hard thing to deal with. I know how hard it will be for you to watch poor Andy.
I had to act for the sake of our fish as they were all showing the symptoms of the sporozoan, Bert being the worst ... he was in a really bad state, and I just knew I couldn't let it go on, even though I didn't want to lose them.
It was a really hard thing to do, and I had to really make myself mentally strong. I didn't think I could do it, but in the end you cant not do it ...for their sakes.

I truely feel for you going through this as well

Thanks Kim. I really respect your strength in doing what is best for the fish. I am so weak.

Andy is in terrible shape and I waited so long to order the finquel. I pray it arrives today. The last two mornings I wondered if he would be dead. But, he swims out and has a little bite, as pitiful as he looks. If I had the stuff I would be able to do it because he is in such horrible shape and I know he is suffering.

But Mariah and Gomer act like everything is just fine, even though Mariah has a fairly big cyst on her side that is about to burst. I know I am just prolonging the inevitable for them, but as I said earlier I am weak.

I see you changed your avatar to one of your beautiful sunsets! Nice.

Becky, believe me, I so know how you feel .. I dont think your weak, you just really love your fish, and it's hard to let go and to actually take that decision ... to be honest, I still cant believe I actually did it, but if you could've seen the fish, I just had to .... poor Bert, he had three big cysts, he was so misshapen, not eating and hiding, and then one right next to his eye too and it was pushing the eye outwards ... Goldie had one really large cyst and was looking fatter (bloated) and looked liked starting to pinecone, Bill and Jenson had the same symptoms too, the cyst, oh I just knew I would be prolonging things for them, and felt I was wrong to hold on, but I admit, I so wanted to do just that!
I used the clove oil and a little whisky plus tank water, and it was over in seconds, very peaceful. I used the info in the Euthanising section.
You just never expect it will happen to your fish do you, and I felt totally unprepared. I wanted someone else to come do it for me, but that just wasn't an option.
I wish I could come support you and be with you I'm thinking of you though.


I'm pleased you like my sunset ... thanks

I am so sorry for your loss, Kim. It sounds like it hit you fast and hard. No time to adjust or prepare. I can't even imagine an empty tank. I hope you feel like disinfecting and getting some new fish soon. Once you have them, it is so hard to live without them isn't it?

If the finquel does not arrive today I might have to resort to another humane method that I read about. Andy came out this morning to feed, but spit the food back out. It breaks my heart to see him in such shape.

Your support and thoughts mean a lot to me. Thanks so much for being here.

Becky I'm thinking about you and Andy, and the others ... oh I do hope you get that finquel today, watching them suffer is awful isn't it. I really feel for you.

With ours, it did seem to hit hard and suddenly, and I feel a bit shell shocked and unbelieveing still.
We find it so difficult to have an empty tank, all dark and quiet, plus it is in the room we are in the most, our schoolroom, so it's a constant reminder, but as to more fish ... I just dont know.
I would be frightened of this happening again, and I know others have said it was nothing I did, but I still keep wondering if it was maybe something even that I DIDN'T do that I should have? I just dont know.
I have lost confidence in my ability to provide a safe and 'good' enviroment for fish.

I have thought long and hard about how this all came about. From my understanding, after reading all I could find online, the fish become infected only by eating the spores from another infected fish.

I have had my fish for less than one year and they all came from Wal-Mart at the same time. One possiblity is that at least one fish was infected from the beginning and infected all the others. I did purchase two bushy nosed plecos and 5 snails after I had the gf a few months. I did not know about quarantining new fish and just put them in. Both plecos died rather quickly (and they definitely brought ich into the tank) and eventually all the snails died too. This is the second possibilty of how it entered my tank.

I think this disease could disguise itself even through a 4 week quarantine so there is no reason to think that you could have done anything to prevent it. You are obviously a conscientious caregiver to your fish and any sad, lonely fish in the pet shop would be lucky to go home with you.

Thank you Becky

I too have been going over and over what could be the reason.
We had Goldie and Bert for over a year, Dave for just under a year but Bill and Jenson I think we got in February this year. How long can it be until this disease manifests itself?

The strange thing is, Dave died in May and he had a lump, not oozing, just a lump and we just found him suddenly dead out of the blue, so we put it down to being some kind of tumour..... but now it makes you wonder maybe this has been on going for months and we just never knew, so maybe it wasn't so sudden after all? I just find it hard when it's all so uncertain, but I can honestly say that already, Tom and I are finding it hard with this empty tank staring accusngly at us each day.
I would like more fish, I really miss having fish, Tom misses them too and so does my 5 year old, Joe, but I just dont want to put any poor fishies through this again.

I am def going to strongly bleach the tank and ornaments and throw out the gravel, and filter media, but I dont know if the plants can be bleached or need to go out too?
Maybe we'll see how we feel in a few weeks.

Andy.

This morning he took a bad turn for the worse. I was doing a water change and as I added the fresh water back in, he could not keep maintain his balance. He would float and then right himself momentarily and then begin floating on his side again. The finquel had not arrived. I used another humane method. It was unpleasant for me (I did not cut his head off!), but I know that he went instantly so that is what matters.

I don't know what to think about this part of the story, but when I got home from work this afternoon the box from Drs. Smith and Foster was on the porch. Less than 8 hours too late.

I think that Dave probably did have the same thing. He probably had cysts on his internal organs that never had the chance to come to the surface. He might have even had tiny bits leaking out that were not noticiable.

I am sure that my two fish that have shown no symptoms are carrying this disease and it is only a matter of time before they develop bumps. And the two with symptoms will soon go into a decline like Andy. But, now I have the finquel. I will just make them comfortable while they are ok.

You will know when you are ready for more fish. I have a feeling it won't be too long.

Oh poor Andy! poor Becky!
I'm so, so sorry that you had to go through that!
I know how hard it is, but you did what was for the best ...



You are probably right about Dave, and also, he was a white fish and the lump was in the white part, so maybe any discharge was less noticable? we were so shocked at that time too, that we probably didn't look very hard at it.
It would make more sense of everything if that was the case


Do Mariah and Gomer seem pretty stable at the moment? Just lumps but no oozing?
I think your right about the others too, because Jenson showed no symptoms until the end. I guess you just have to keep monitoring them.

It's hard though isn't it. My thoughts are with you and your beautiful fishies Becky ... please keep posting how they are?

Thanks for all your support. Mariah and Gomer seem to be just fine. Mariah just had a cyst rupture, but it doesn't even leave a red spot and never even slows her down! At the moment they are both "bump free". I will not let them go to the point that Andy did because I saw how bad the end was for him and I think I can make a better decision next time.

Let us know when you decide to get . I wonder what lucky fish out there will get to go home and live with you and Tom and Joe to keep you occupied during the long dark winter?

Becky,
I know your post was a year ago, but I am hoping you might still get an email about a new post so that your hindsight can be applied in my case. By the letter, I am going through the same thing with my sarassa and shubunkin. It first manifested itself with the sarassa and I remember thinking that the ruptured boil seemed to be giving birth to something and putting it into the water. Despite my vigilance, I lost the sarassa. It wasn't until the Shub started to show the same symptoms that I sought research and found your experience in the forum. I noted that my long-time goldfish got this terrible sporozan illness after getting plecos just like you did. Would you tell me how the pleco faired following the loss of your goldfish? Did the pleco get it too? I know now that there is no hope for my Shub, should I hold out any hope for the plecos?
Were you ever able to get to the point of disinfecting your tank and starting over? If so, would you please share with me how you went about this?
It is sad that you lost your finny friends, but consider that their loss is not for nothing, since it has helped other people.... me for sure.
Chi