Told Deirdre i would post because Pippin again has a badly shredded bottom tail. Where she is with this right now is that the JFE will 'cure' it, but, once the med is out of the water, at the slightest provocation the rot will come back. She doesn't want to keep the med in the water constantly because it kills his java fern and also must be bad for Luna the ancistrus. But she feels she may have to start medicating him again. She's very worried. His situation:
eclipse 6; mix of live and plastic plants, PH about 7.2; nitrates usually about 20, no ammonia or nitrites noted (Deirdre doesn't test quite as often as i do, but every time she has tested, the water conditions have been stable) She has a small heater in the tank and the temp is about 80F.

Although it seems quite clean, the tank is maxed out with two nearly 2 inch fish in it - and Luna is messy. We suspect Pip is a bit stressed by the current (which we try to block) and also irritated by the substrate. It's hard to keep gravel pristine, even though Deirdre vacuums it at least once a week when she does her water changes, and Pippin tends to sleep on the bottom with his fins scraping/draped on the gravel. So I thought, since the weather is so warm and there would be less temperature shock, she might transfer him to Rubeus's bowl (Rubeus is due to go back to his bowl in the library, so there will be room in the kitchen). Once she's switched the bettas this way, she might try 'tub to tub'method with Pippin, leaving Luna alone in the tank. At this point, we hardly know what else to try. What do you guys think? Is it worth getting Pipppin into a bowl, where it's easier to keep the substrate really clean? Poor Pippin - and poor Deirdre! I had more or less convinced her filtered tanks are always better-

If you mean they are stressed by eachother then yes, I would seperate them. I don't know if I would personally go for a bowl though...

With my experience with betta's, they really do not mind much current from filters. All of my betta's live in 10 gal. tanks with aquaclear mini's for filtration. They do fine. But, I know all are different and yours may not like it.

As for the messy water, the water is probably getting messy vert quickly. Is the water being tested before a water change or after a water change? I think that water quality has a lot to do with this situation. Maybe up the water changes a bit. Good luck!

Maybe try removing the gravel (not all at once, but over the course of a couple of weeks) and replacing it with smooth, river stones. These would be easier to keep clean.

Replacing the gravel seems a good idea, Touchofsky, provided it doesn't bother either the plants or the fish, and I will suggest it to Deirdre. As for the bowl versus filtered tank question, all I can say is that, in our experience, the betta in a bowl has been healthier than those in the tank - my little guy has a very gentle current in his two gallon and also seems healthy, but the current in the eclipse tank does seem to stress these fish. Both Zorro, who was in there previously, and Pippin got ill.

Also, when my goldfish Polycarp got finrot, the vet suspected it could be because she slept on the bottom and the current was moving her around and causing her tail to scrape on the substrate. Pippin also sleeps toward the bottom of the tank, and where his fins are torn is also where they would touch the substrate. So it seems like a similar problem. That's why I thought moving him to a bowl short-term might be helpful? I do, in general, think filtered tanks are better, but it does seem to me the current and the gravel might be problematic?

Anyway, he's still eating well and doesn't look too terrible. It's just awfully persistent rot. Thanks for the ideas and sympathy.

Is there any way you can cut down on the current in this tank? I use squares of filter floss cut from sheets to do this job with my AquaClear filters that are on my betta tanks. I drape the sheet of floss in front of the outflow of the filter. This dramatically cuts down on the current, but doesn't affect the filtering ability of the filter.

I actually buy 100% polyester quilt batting to use for this purpose. It is available at craft stores and places like Wal-Mart. Just be sure to buy the stuff that has no additives such as mothproofing. It will say on the bag.

I hope the little guy improves. I know how distressing it is to see the ragged fins

It seems as if Pippin is in the same situation as my little guy Winter. I will post if I find anything that works. I can tell you what seems to have slowed down the rot a lot for me is daily water changes with aged water with prime and 1/2 teaspoon of salt per gallon. I siphon the bottom daily. I also am using those jungle antiobiotic pellets. Not sure if the pellets are making a difference. If I don't see healing in a few days, I plan to begin a cycle of Maricyn and Maricyn 2. Many people are probably thinking that I am doing too much at once but nothing by itself has helped. I know when my daughter began her asthma we had to find the right cocktail to control it. So, I'll let you know when we get there.

I have Winter in a 2 gallon with a small world filter and pebbles for substrate. I only have just enough gravel to cover the bottom. I have a silk plant that he loves to sleep in.

Please let me know if you guys come upon something that works for you and I will do the same.

All I can say is that I've been dealing with it for over a year now & I am just at balance with it. I've found that I have to change the water more frequently at different temps (even though params are OK) (& I mean weather temps). I also think water is the key but I can't quite figure out exactly how (too many changes=rot, not enough...you guessed it=rot)(water params are stable throughout all of this)

Meds so far work fine in the short term but haven't provided me with any long term relief. I have found these healing fins to be extremely fragile & prone to rot. (I haven't seen this to quite this extent in my one goldie or other bettas but the 2 that have the nasty strain...woah...) I have to say thought that when the fins get extremely short or look too "bloody" I do use the meds.

The fish seem happy & so I just keep on keepin' on!

GOod Luck!

Jenn

Thank you both - I think you are right about balancing the water changes; Deirdre has been doing twice a week, rather than once a week, and it does seem to help - but it's very hard to keep the gravel truly clean, even so. Pip, like your fish, is still swimming around and eating eagerly, so I know it's not that desparate yet, but it surely is frustrating! Will pass your comments on to her and will let you know what we end up doing and how it works - Rubeus is going back to the library tomorrow, so Pippin could theoretically be in his bowl in the kitchen for a month or two. OTOH, Deirdre doesn't want to have to clean out more than two bowls/tanks every week. A quote from her yesterday, when I was concerned about Benny Bashir not eating his pellets: "Fish should be a pleasure, not a source of stress". For me, of course, they're both!

I can see that. For me, part of the pleasure is making them healthy(once we are successful anyway). I have marveled that this hobby stuck since I was stressed before fish ever entered my mind.

I cycled my little 2 gallon tank and have been using maracyn along with maracyn 2. This time the cycle seems stable and the maracyn is working. I see some healing! That is a miracle, IMO. I will let you know if it sticks after the meds are removed. I am hoping the biofilter will keep the environment healthy enough for him to continue healing without them. Now that ammonia shouldn't be a factor I intend to cut back on the water changes like Jenn recommended, you know try to reach a balance.

Keep us posted on how things are going. I am very interested to hear what works on your end.