Brutus Jr., a comet, I noticed recently is acting weird. He hangs out at the bottom of the tank and doesn't swim much. The top of his head looks a flat too It also looks like he is breathing slow. When he hangs out at the bottom of the tank, he isn't doing it up and down. He is laying at the bottom in a angle of up and down, but there is maybe 1/4 of him higher than the other side. I just moved him to my back up tank that has those tubie thingys that spits out bubbles for air so he can get some extra oxygen.

Tank he is in now:
Tank is a 10gallon
um Brutus Jr is approx 1 and 3/4 pinkies long
Water quality is where the bottle thing says normal
There's filters in both tanks

Tank he was in:
Tank is a 10gallon
2 other comets happily playing tag
Water quality is where the bottle thing says normal
Filter

I feed them Baby food and Flakes
The baby food is peas....ingredients are only peas and water

Help please......I don't want to lose him.....I've already lost enough

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with Brutus Jr. I've never kept comets, but they look pretty good.

Its pretty hard to tell what is wrong without more details. I would guess that water quality may be poor? You may have too many fish for you 10 gallon tank.

If you haven't done so, I would suggest you change half the water (with water conditioner) straight away. You may add a tablespoon of salt as well.

Answer as many questions given at the top as possible, this would give a clearer picture..

Do post back.

Slugger

Oops, I misread your post. You keep Brutus in a separate tank, so forget the thing about too many fish.

Slugger

The quality of the water is fine. I put the test strips in both tanks.
Nitrate--between 20-40
Nitrite--0
Hardness--between 120-250 approx 130
Alkalinity--between 80-120 approx 95
Ph--between 6.8-7.2


^^^^^^^ Tank I moved him to Today

Tank he was in:
Nitrate-- between 20-40 approx. 25
Nitrite-- 0
Hardness-- between 120-250 approx. 130
Alinity-- 80
Ph-- 6.8-7.2

And to help further, I took a series of shots from my new cell phone and emailed the pictures to me... I made a quick, but very lame website to view the shots at:

http://fishy169.tripod.com/

Sorry on the website, was a quickie since I am trying to do many things I kind of just thru the pics on and ran off lol. But Brutus Jr. in Page 2 "My Comes/Fish" is the pics of this fish.

I got Brutus Jr. to eat a little, but his appitete seems not healthy too. I thought fishies ate all the time!! I can feed him with my hand, but then he is finished afer a tiny bit. I fed him flakes.

Starting tomarrow, I am changing him to a baby food only diet-- the peas. Don't worry, I am just constantly on the go with kids (We all know how that is, especially when you babysit 4 toddlers and 2 pre teens) so I just purchase peas in baby food and make sure the ingredients are always and only water and peas. I don't think the water should hurt them in food, after all fish live in water.

He is swimming a little more now, I am leaning towards not getting enough oxygen. Is that possible with a fishy thats in a tank? The only thing different in the tank I moved him to is the bubblies that come out of the tubes...this tank has them, the main tank doesn't.

I'm going to ask for another tank for Christmas again, cuz I am over stalked on 1 tank. Brutus is in the back up tank, Alone. While I have 2 Comets in the other 10gal. tank. I will just keep asking for fish Christmas presents! It worked once with my family, so it should work again hehe. Got to love family when you are very low incomed, you ask for your Christmas presents on what you need and you get it And my family knows that my fishies are my babies and I love them. I even talked my dad one time into getting 5.7oz bottle of fish flakes, and I'm still working on that bottle. Should last me another 2-3 months.

what about ammonia? Did you test that...don't see the readings above...that param would be very important...if you have any ammonia at all in your tank, that could be your problem. My concern with the baby food is that it would create a lot of excess waste and thus could cause increased ammonia.

Also, is he pooping normally? What do the poops look like...if they are long and stringy, he could be constipated. If they are whitish, he could have an infection.

How does his body look? Any abnormal marks...fungus, red spots? Are his scales standing up? Does he have excess slime coat? A bit hard to tell from the pics

Hi,Sorry to hear that Brutus isn't feeling well.Comets/Commons really need twice the amount of room as Fancy Goldies ,so having three originally in one tank is pretty overstocked. They need between fifteen and 20gals each for good health & size.Goldies also are recommended to have a filter that is ten times the filtration of your tank size.If your filter isn't doing that, all your fish will eventually suffer from it. As was stated,you didn't mention ammonia .With three Comets in a ten gal,chances are that your ammonia may be running high.By the way,how exactly do you feed the baby food to them? Just curious?? And are you soaking those fish flakes in a little tank water before feeding them? How often have you been performing water changes and gravel cleanings,and how much water are you removing? Without knowing all the details,I'm going to say that your water quality probably isn't quite up to Par.Nitrates,to be safe,should really be in the 20 and under range also.Some fish seemed to be bothered by that more than other's.Be careful with the test strips,they are not the most accurate. Sorry for all the questions,the more we know the easier to figure out Brutus's problems. Post soon!

Hi,

I just had a thought. (Wow)

Did Brutus only start behaving like this after moving into the new tank and how long has he been in this tank?

Slugger

I saw Brutus acting like this in the other tank with the other 2 comets. So I moved him to my back up tank. As for his looks, I would have to say his head looks flat for some reason and there is a red spot there which feels slimy. And his tail is like well not spread out? I'll Post another picture up to the website of his tail....I can't figure out how to say it. I will label it in the section of "Brutus Jr." so you can go right to the pics from the website. I put him in the backup tank and I am not feeding him since yesterday. Backup tank was last changed a few weeks ago, 3/4 cyle. He is the FIRST fish to go in there since the change. I didn't think I needed to continue cycling the water changes with No fish in a tank. I feed the baby food by just simply letting it drip off a teaspoon and moving the spoon around so it drops off at different spots. For flakes, I will either put the fish net in and soak it in the spot of the fish net so the fish don't go after it or I crumble the flakes really fine and put them in. Speaking of changing water, I need to to cycle the main tank today. Last change was last week--was 1/2 change. I usually change til I don't see any more flakes, poop, etc come up the vacum tuby. Brutus' poop well that is a good question. Which one is his poop in the main tank?? I saw 1 poop string in the main tank--long thin wigly brown and clear coloured. But that is the question--of 3 fish, who does it belong to? I have him alone in the back up tank, but not seeing any poop. As for ammonia, I cant honestly tell you. I traveled 45 miles to the nearest pet store, and they didn't have a ammonia kit for sale or any strips to test ammonia :S I bought the best test they had in the entire store---Mardel Freshwater 5 in 1tm Test Strips -- pH, Hardness, Alkalinity, Nitrite, Nitrate should I travel 7hours on bus to get to the major city? And then where the heck is the pet store there, I hardly go to the major city? I went into the city and there is only 3 pet stores there, I checked all of them, I have the best test kit they can provide. I live in the subarbs and I am really tight on money. If I need to get something, this is the time to do it because I just earned a little more by doing some things for some Soldiers at their house. They were too chicken to clean :-P I can go about $50 this month in fish things, I just won't be able to do anything afterwards (like I do anyways, we don't even have a hospital or movie threate or mall in my town). Give me 20 minutes to add to the site of new pics. Time: 7:10pm PST

First,I want to say to stop with the baby food.That will polute your water really fast because of the thickness,most is dissolving in the water and not in the goldie's mouths. All that baby food is basically laying around in your water. The original tank-your Back-up,did you have a filter running on it the whole time that the tank was empty,or has that water been sitting there stagnant? You said the back up tank was changed three weeks ago,how much water was taken out?You also mention that it's 3/4 cycled,and that you have the new tank to finish cycling.You are getting readings on both tanks for NitrAtes,meaning that your tank finished the cycling process.Your tanks should have NitrAtes 20 and under,and your Ammonia,&Nitrites should be reading zero.If they're not,then you are either not performing water changes often enough,or you are not changing out enough of water.What kind of filter's do you have on these tanks? Also,when you are changing out water,are you using temp matched water,and some sort of water conditioner to make the tap water safe for your fish?I am still not convinced that it's not a water issue.I would start with a 25% change out.If that doesn't seem to help Brutus,I would then do another water change. Without knowing the filtration rate of your filter's,the Ammonia levels,etc. all I can tell you right now is to do the water change.As for the Red Mark,where is it located? What exactly does it look like?Do you happen to have Aquarium Salt? The first place to ever start when your fish have a problem is with their water.Often times,their illness leads back to that.Sorry for all the questions again.Just want to be clear with everything.

When I say cycle, I mean when I changed the water. 3/4 cycle-- 3/4 Tank eptyied and replaced. Yes, there is filters in BOTH tanks, and both are running and have been. *peeks in the back of the tank at filters* both are the mech. filters cuz they hang at back

Tank A (He orginally was in)
Filter: Bio-Bag (Tetra Whisper) Disposable Filter Cartridge

Tank B (Tank he IS in now and isolated)
Filter: Penguin Size A fits mini power filters, contains black diamond premium activated carbon

I don't have any aquirum salt. I do have the following:
Ph 7.0
Stress Coat
Stress Zyme
AmQuel + removes: Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, Chloramines, Chlorine
Water Conditioner-- .42oz

I'm doing the 25% (1/4) water change right now. I'll do both tanks. I'll post the test strip results too after I done with it.

Brutus' red spot is on his gills. But his head feels a little slick but only in one spot.

Why is his tail drooping? Its like hanging. Like a dead fishy's tail.

Want me to add any of the stuff that I have? I ain't adding anything unless I am told to here.

Tank B (He is in)
Temp 71

Tank A (Tank he was in)
Temp 70

At this point stick with the water change,if you don't see any improvement change another 25 %.Without an actual test,we're gueessing on this.You may have to follow up with more changes,daily.Well,if it's high ammonia,some of the symptoms are excessive mucous or slimecoat(which could be the slick coating on his head)clamped fins-which he seems to be doing now,listlessness,(sitting on bottom of tank),He may even have or get redfins. if it's the water quality,you should start to hopefully see some sort of improvement,and like I said,you may have to do more than one! Hey,good luck with Brutus,and keep us posted!

If its ammonia wouldn't the AmQuel + help? It says on the bottle it removes nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, chloramines, chlorine. I'm looking at the back of the bottle now, it says it will remove on average more than 1.2 ppm of ammonia, 2ppm of nitrite, and 13 ppm of nitrate as will as detoxify all chlorine or chloramines.

Changed Water for both tanks did 1/2 tank exchange to grab some extra bad stuff cuz i found a spot i missed last time in each tank. New Levels are now at:


Nitrate-- 40-45
Nitrite-- 0
Hardness--120
Alkalinity--80 - 90
Ph--between 6.8 - 7.2


^^^^^^^ Tank He is in Now

Tank he was in:
Nitrate-- 35
Nitrite-- 0
Hardness-- 120
Alinity-- 80-85
Ph-- 6.8

Um could it be my pH??? I am reading my fishy book. Says Goldfish do fine in a slightly acid pH range of 6.8 to a slightly alkaline range of 7.4 of course, extremes should be avoived. Common signs of adverse pH conditions include listlessness, gasping for air at the surface, reddening of the fins and gills, drooping fins, lack of appetite.

I have noticed Brutus Jr has: red gills, fast breathing, lack of appetite, the weird angle he sits in (one side higher than other), drooping fins/clamped, listlessness, and looks very sad

Could it be the alkaline?

Should I try that Amquel +?

He made it through the night, he is a fighter. But he is getting worse. I have done 3 water changes of 25$ already. Someone Please Help. I don't know what to do. The book I have on goldfish only gets close to his symtoms is the pH. Please Help Me. He is barely breathing now.

i called a vet 150miles away from me. They were able to diagnose him with many things.
"The arched back is a behavior associated with nervous system pathology. Further the gills look quite pale also suggesting a systemic (body-wide problem). Pale gills suggest anemia. In any case, serious disease."

Then he said best case would to be to uthinize him (put Brutus Jr. to sleep).

And he helped me teach me how to salt a tank......Both tanks are NOW salted ladies and gentlemen. And I used a Gourmet all natural sea salt by Redmond RealSalt. I spoil the fish, what can i say? they are my babies.

I really don't want to put him down guys! Please someone help me make him more comfy or make him better. Please.

I spoil the fish, what can i say? they are my babies.


I think you'll find that nobody here will judge you on that count! I'm so sorry that you're going through what you are right now. But, I do know that doing everything you can for your fish, and going above and beyond for them too (which you have) seems to be the creedo on this board. I hope that everything will work out for your friend, and hopefully someone will have some great advice to help aid you in these next steps...Good Luck.

Oranda or anyone? Have any ideas how we can save my Brutus Jr.? We need to try to save Brutus Jr.--all animals have feelings is my belief. And they deserve the chance to live! Please help me save him before he is no longer here. This site has already seen me through 3 deaths of fish, and I NEED to find out what is going on. After Brutus Jr. passes, I will have only 2 comets left.

I am doing water changes, salting the tanks (heck the sea salt is Gourmet), putting more oxygen in the tank by blowing bubblies thru a straw, moving him by the tube that produces bubblies that go to the top, petting him, holding him, telling him i love him (ya, i really do talk to my fish), and calling the vet on after hours and speaking to a specials about 150miles away from me.

I have also noticed I have another comet that has a red streak like blood veign showing on his side of the tummy. Anyone know what that is?

I'm sorry I can't offer much, except perhaps increase to 50% water changes every day, with a tablespoon of salt. If you have nothing else, table salt will do.

Is there anything you can do with the filter location or tank water level to make the filter outlet splash on the surface. That would help aeration a little.

Hope Brutus Jr pulls through.

Slugger

Hmm hanging a spoon over it? I could try to be really creative to get the mech. filter splash water instead of poor. Now, here is a stupid question. Is a tablespoon 5 tsps?

This sounds strange, the more I am helping other users with their problems (as you have seen) could we have simply overlooked Brutus Jr.'s problem? I been reading my fishy book. Floating Disease. Could he have that??? I know it is rare for comets, as Brutus is a comet. But COULD HE? I was just changing his water (50% change) and he floated in the middle as I was changing the water, when i finished adding the water back, he went down to the bottom. Floating disease sometimes it says that it is the fish's prefence to where they are. Some are at the top of water, some hover in the middle or sink to the bottom. And when I try to feed him (PEAS, and yes REAL frozen peas shell removed and mushed he is trying to eat it but he can't. Its like yawning. He will eat if I move him around and it falls in front while I am moving him. Could he have a severe case of flooting disease (swim bladder)?? And where do I find frozen brine shrimp?? I live in the subburds guys, I NEED answers by 8am PST USA cuz I will be leaving for the CITY on a doctor's apt. I can get things then if I need anything!!! Come on, reply to this message. I see you guys looking, but not saying anything. Try typing an answer. This book really does have a lot of info. I'm starting to answer questions even here now

Hey guys? Could we have overlooked this??? Could it be a Rare case of Floating Disease (Swim Bladder) in Brutus Jr.?? Listen up....

Brutus Jr is TRYING to eat, but can't. He's like yawning at the food.

A fish with floating disease will either float at the top, hoover in the middle, or sink to the bottom. It is the fish's preference.

So far we know...
Brutus Jr. is laying down arched
Has clamped tail (NOT as clamped as he was now!!)
Breathing heavy and not often
Won't eat...Yawns at the food (like attempting to)


Could we just overlooked that because comets usually don't get Swim bladder problems??

What do you guys think?

Hey guys could we have overlooked this? I know its rare for comets, but could Brutus Jr. have SBD? I had answered so many questions last night on sbd here, i actually read my fishy book on diseases. The book on fishys says its the fishy's preference where they are. Some go sinking (Like he is), some float, some hover in middle. And he tries to eat when I feed him peas. Yes everyone, it IS frozen peas and not the baby food. Someone told me not to so I didn't. But when I feed he just yawns but never gets any unless I actually hold him and feed him. Should I force feed him peas like this? He is my only trained fish guys. And he made it through the night again! Look, I need to know if I need medicated food or anything. I am going into town in 1 1/2 hours for a doctor's apointment and can pick things up while I am out. And the city is 40miles away, so let me know so I don't have to spend all day out getting things. Sorry I prefer to know before I leave since I live in the subburbs. You can understand that, since I live 40miles out to the nearest mall, hospital, movie theatre, PET SHOP, etc. So uhh let me know before I leave today for the city life. Thanks.

Des.

Leaving for the city now. I'm just going to pray that I am right on my theory of Floating Disease. Going to get some oxygen rocks too while i am out. Do I just put them in the tanke?

Whilst I was in the city I purchase an ammonia kit :yay and I also purchased some Frozen brine shrimp. I fed Brutus Jr. some frozen brine shrimp by putting the shrimp in the fishy net. But he spits it out! What does it mean when you have a fishy spitting out food? I have to assist feeding him by placing him in the net and helping him move. He can't really swim now. Is there any hope for my baby?? Oh yes, the ammonia level was between 0 and .25 Is that good?

I only just saw your spate of emails, sorry I couldn't reply sooner.

Ammonia should be zero, so 0 to 0.25 shows that either the tank is still cycling or your filtration can't take the bioload. This may be the after effects of babyfood

In the meantime, I'd suggest you keep to daily 50% water changes with salt. I can't remember if you use conditioner, you do don't you?

For the salt, 3tspns or 5tspns, I don't think matters that much for 10g.

Spitting out food means it is painful for the fish to swallow or chew. Brine shrimp are soft aren't they? Could you give a description of how the gills of Brutus Jr look? At least he has an appetite. Feed him the peas if he'll eat them.

It's OK to feed by hand. My Moor is practically blind (I reckon), so I have to feed him/her peas by hand.

If you can fix your water quality (ie Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates under 40, pH above 7, temp not too hot preferably under 28C, then hopefully Brutus Jr will slowly recover.

Good luck

Slugger

The temp under 28c is what in F? I don't know how the heck he is doing it, but he is still alive. He barely breathes though. Only way I can tell he is alive is cuz occassionally he will move a little when he sees me and I go 'Brutus." I really don't think he will make it through. I think its only a matter of time. I thought brine shrimp was soft. He really did want it, he just kept spitting it out. What I did was net him since he so ill and put the frozen brine shrimp in the net and I moved him back and forth cuz he can hardly swim now And why is there blood in his tail fin? I've been trying to fix the water, but unfortuanally my tap has ammonia in it as I found for testing it. I'm starting to think I may have had a pH crash which can mock syptoms of dropsy and floating disease. I am not sure how to find out though if I did. His gills are red looking it looks like.

Sorry for the confusion. The temperature should be under 28 degrees centigrade.

It sounds like Brutus Jr is really ill.

All I can suggest is keep up the the water changes with salt.

Don't give up.

Slugger

Did my daily 50% water change slugger. Test results:

Nitrate: 40
Nitrite:0
Hardness:120
Alkalinity:80-120
pH: 7.6-8.0
Ammonia:0

Added: Amquel + to lower the ph and Nitrate
Added: 5tsp salt (replace existing salt)
Added: Stress Coat (been handing him to feed him)

Is that good? what is the good range for everything? I thought I read somewhere, maybe you posted it, but pH should be like 7.2- 7.4 that's why I added the amquel + to lower pH as well as the Nitrate. Did I do the right thing? Will retake the tests in 20min to get the amquel time to work up. I just did this test right after I added the salt and stress coat and amquel.

Recheck Test Results:

pH:7.2-7.6
Alkanity: 80-120
Hardness: 50-120
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
Ammonia: 0
Temp: 71F

5:03am PST been up all night with Brutus Jr. It's only a matter of time now and I am crying. He is still at the bottom, about 1/8 above the rocks. Only breathing every couple of minutes. No longer eats. So skinny now, I can look closely and see the spine and bones. Can't swim, despite my fish physical therapy (moving him around for him like he is swimming). Blood on his fins and tail fin. Barely opens his mouth. I didn't want to lose him. I love him.

I am sorry to read this. As for why others or myself have not answered you before now.........I can't. Your thread "looked" like it was being attended too, but I am sorry that we have not helped you before now.

On to my thoughts. Yes I do think that Brutus could have had a touch of SBD, on top of other things. It doesn't matter now to much of what could've or should've been. The red in the tail and on the belly are signs of Septicimia. NOt good. (the other fish sounds as well that this could be occuring).

Septicimia is quite fatal without injectable antibotics. Is there a way to contact that vet and see if you could "ship" or take the fish to him? It is a shot, but without it, Brutus may only have a short time.

I know that the vet recommended euthansia, and being a vet tech it is our obligation to cover "quality of life issues" and animal suffering.
If there is no way for you to do the inject. meds, for him it may be better to euthanize him. I know it is difficult but it is an act of love to give them peace and no pain.
If you choose to do this there is a couple ways. The site here has methods of this and many different views, which way is best for you and Brutus is up to you.

Good luck.
In the meantime try and get the ammonia at 0 and the nitrates under 20, this will help.

Brutus didn't make it far enough to get to the vet. He passed at 6:42am pst. I had all of my fish in by 11am pst, to a companion pet clinic. I had an autopsy done, and yes your diagnoses on septic was correct. He also gill flukes. I am now stripping and sanitizing both tanks (10gallons) and trying to save the other 2 fish, as they have symptoms as well according to the vet. I was givin the powder form of the shot since these 2 comets are still eating. Currently I have my other fishies in a approx. 4 gallon tupperware, with the filter hanging out of it from a tank I am currently cleaning. I tossed the plastic plants, as I felt the flukes could of gotten to it. How could I properly santize the rocks though so I can reuse them? Since he was at the bottom the entire time, the rocks need either tossed or extremely sanitized.

Hi there. Sorry I didn't get to see this thread sooner.

I really sorry for saying this but I knew what he had about halfway through reading your thread. All of the symptoms point directly at flukes, chilodonella and costia. Namely flukes as per the spitting of the food.

I have a solution for you but it is going to take a little bit more money. You'll need to try and purchase some praziquantel. There are many sources for it on-line and I would be happy to link you to a few if your interested. Salt and praziquantel together will knock out pretty much any parasite that you cannot see with the naked eye. Prazi is the VERY BEST treatment you can get for flukes and the salt will take care of the rest. The best part about this treatment is that it will be very easy for your goldies to handle. Prazi cannot be overdosed and is non-toxic to fish and humans. Trust me, they will be fine as soon as you get the prazi and salt in there. I have treated (successfuly) flukes in many a goldfish and koi using a treatment that I wrote in the disease treatment forum. If you look there, you will find it very informative as well.

Make no mistake, your remaining goldfish ARE infected with gill flukes. You will need to treat them very soon if you want to keep them healthy. You can actualy stave off the flukes very well with only salt and a few salt dips every now and again. The prazi will be the knockout punch. Again, trust me, I have studied and treated flukes for a few years now.


DO NOT strip your tank, it will do no good whatsoever. Your fish have flukes on them and you will just bring them back into the tank after the stripping. Plus, it won't do them any good disrupting their filters bio-cycle. Treat them each in their own tank. Keep them there until you can get a larger tank.


I hiope this helps you some. Post back soon.


Paul

Hi Paul,
I didn't read your note in time and I stripped the tank. However, I was being a typical mommy. I halfway remembered something about the filter, so I took it off and stuck it in the tupperware with the fish. It wasn't really distrubed much. Just about 30seconds to the tupperware and 30seconds from the tupperware to the tank. And its good that I stripped it too--I was able to bring down my nitrates! I don't have rocks in this setup--as I still am cleaning them. Tested the tank, and nitrates are down to about 30-35. I put a little water conditioner in there. And stress coat--because of the fish being in tupperware and the netting. Oh ya, I also salted it. The fish doctor gave me some Tetracyline for the remaining fishies. This will work? or was the fish doctor wrong? Is this meds work for flukes too? The fish doctor said they had bacteria in them, but did a scraping and couldn't find anything. Email me qtmonki01@gmail.com (Anyone is welcome to email btw) I just need to go to work, and I can check email on break.

New tank setup--
Ammonia--ZERO
pH-6.8-7.2
Alkinity-80-120
Hardness-120
Nitrite-ZERO
NitrAte-20-40 aprox 35

Great! I'm glad you saved the filters!

Tetracycline is used to treat bacterial infections. If any of your remaining goldies look septic, the tetracycline might help. You see, tetracycline has been used soooo much since it was discovered that there are many types of bacteria that are not succeptable to its effects anymore. Truth be told, if your goldies aren't doing to bad at this point, I would wait to dose them with the tetracycline. Tetra is known to adversely effect the bio-filter.

If you can, read this thread in the disease forum: Flukes treatment

As I stated before, salt dips can and will help you greatly. Keeping a 0.3% solution in the tanks water and performing salt dips can actually get you pretty darn close to killing them off. But I still say that prazi is a must to be REALLY sure.

How are your goldies doing?


Sorry abot not e-mailing you. It taks too darn long for me to get my e-mail accont to load. My puter is Ooooooold. So old that my hard drive only holds 5 gigs of memory.....

Post back soon,

Paul

Wow Paul, you actually got the internet to work on that computer?? lol. I just got back, I was pulled on a double. Fishies still alive.....thats a plus. One has been looking sick, so I had the uh fish doctor (what do you call them anyways lol?) look at both of them just to be safe. There's a bacteria in the one I thought looked sick. The fish doctor told me if any was to die, the one that looked sick would go first. His gills are swollen too, she said. Despite him being sick, he is still eating. (Whew, good thing I caught on on his first signs being sick) From the dosage, I might be able to save some, not sure though. Only two in there now, she said to give them a small pinch. I been changing it on them, so they don't know how the meds are getting in them. First I used peas and squessed them to administer the meds, then today, I switched and put the meds on the flakes with a little bit of cooking spray to stick it on (a fish doctor told me its ok to use cooking spray) tomarrow I'm going to try not sure what, but administer it in a different way. As you can see, I been a tricky little mom. I remember my mom sneaking meds in the drinks like juice or something when I was little lol. Too bad fish don't drink rofl. The ill fishy has a blood vein showing on the sides. Is that ok? My filter is a mech filter. Does it affect this filter? I'm going to ask the family for another tank for Christmas. I want to get more fish, but I am too chicken to put them in with my little ones. Is there a way to tell a boy fish from a girl fish? Would like, after they feel better, to attempt to breed these two if they are a boy and girl. Also how do you bring the temp down on a fish tank? Its at 74F. Thats a little high. I have been doing25% water changes, and doing the colder water to bring it down. Was orriginly at 78F, and I brought it down to 74F by the waterchanges. Is that the correct way?

74-78 degrees is just fine for a goldfish. That, in my opinion, is the best temps for them. It keeps their immune systems functioning better than at a lower temp. Try not to mess with the temperature too much as this can cause undue stress.


Tetracycline affects the bio-filter. For a good understanding of what I mean by the bio-filter, read the link about cycling tanks at the top of the page (on every page) here. These bacteria that keep your water clean can be destroyed a bit by using waterborne medications. As long as your feeding the meds to them, your all good. go ahead with it. But, and I stress this, you will not be able to keep the problem from coming back if the flukes are not treated successfully. I feel that it is flukes that are the underlying cause of all of this and they need to be eradicated. What steps are you taking to get rid of the flukes? Mind you, salt can be only slightly effective against flukes and a better medication such as droncit or praziquantel is needed to get rid of them once and for all.


Post back soon.

Paul

Good thing Toothless is on the case, he knows his stuff!!!

Hope your fish recover.

Slugger

How much am I looking at for this meds? Just to take the fishies to the doctor, I had to show her my bank records proving I could not afford a full bill with my income. I had to split up the bill and write her a legal document with my signature claiming I would indeed pay a certain ammount by the (date) until the full amount was paid for. The only reason why I was able to actually pay half of it up front, was because of good friends. I am disabled, and have a sole income of SSI. The "work" when I refer to it, is only odd jobs friends give me to earn some money. I wouldn't know what to do if it wasn't for my friends. I just happened to get more odd jobs this past month than I normally do, which allowed me to get the fish the treatment they needed. I would honestly need to find a business to provide me this medication and would be willing to allow slow monthly payments til it is payed off. And I was also wondering Paul, you refer to "Salt Baths". How does one give a fishy a bath? I would be willing to try the salt bath, if I was given step by step directions on how to do so.

Desiree

Well, your in luck, Desiree!

I have some prazi that is just sitting here doing nothing right now. If you like, I could send you some pre-measured doses of it to you. I definitely have enough for you to be able to complete a full treatment of it on both of your tanks. This stuff really works well and is completely harmless to your fish. I haven't tried it with snails yet but I've heard it has been done. So, any snails you have or want to keep might need to be closely watched.

If you would like for me to send it to you, E-mail your address to me at p_vaughn@comcast.net

Don't worry about any money or anything. I don't plan on getting any new fish right now and my tanks are flukes free. So, this praziquantel is just sitting here itching to kill some flukes. Might as well put it to some good use, huh?

As for the possiblility of other parasites being responsible, did the vet say anything about any others? Costia, chilodonella, Trichodina? Can you bother a phonecall to him to see if he was actively looking for any of them? I'm sure they have some records that would say something if he did. Either way, The 0.3% salting for 2-4 weeks will surely kill off any other microscopic nasties.


Post back soon.

I'll call HER (hehe) tomarrow, as it is 10pm. Don't think they will be open right now LOL. And thank you as well Paul. You are a very nice person as I can tell.

"Her", huh?

That figures. Thats just like me. Open mouth, insert foot.......


Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about them not pooping, That probably means that your filter/s are good enough to keep your gravel clean. Ultimately, you'll see them poop the most during or just after you feed. Thy certainly sound like they have some serious appetites and thats good!

Hi,

I saw your question on salt baths and copied this from Ranchugirl's post:

Salt is one of the cheapest and easily available medications, without causing the fish stress like it would do with stronger medications.

kinds of salt
Aquarium salt, rock salt, pickle salt, and solar salt. Latter provides essential minerals to the fish and comes in 20 or 40 lb back in Home improvement centers.
Table salt is NOT to be used at all, it is deadly to the fish due to the anti caking agents in the salt.....

Concentrations
A low concentration of 0.1% is 1 teaspoon per gallon or 1 tablespoon per 5 gl. This low rate will not do any damage to most water plants.
A medium concentration is between 0.1% and 0.5%, but personally I don't go higher than 0.3%. This rate should be obtained in 12 hour intervals, 0.1% salt for 3 times.
A high concentration is up to 0.9% is only recommended for very short treatments, like a dip or short bath, otherwise its deadly to your fish.

Salt dips
There are certain situations where you wonna expose your fish to a brief, but strong salt dip to knock off half a dozen parasites....
- bringing home a new fish from the pet store
- fish comes inside before winter from your pond into an aquarium
- flashing/scratching
- a huge amount of parasites discovered with a microscope
- persistant case of fin rot

A dipped fish will be so much more responsive to other medications added to the tank...

Exceptions: The fish is very small and weak, or you see dark bloody gills, which indicates ammonia toxicity or other kinds of toxins.

How to: Use 1/2 cup of salt from the above list per gallon of water, adjust the temperature, so the fish does not get stressed from temperature shock. Put the salt into the water. When the salt is dissolved, add the fish to the sater and start the timer. A dip between 30 seconds and 5 min is sufficient, as long as the fish does not show any signs of stress. Small fish of course do better in shorter dips.
The fish should be swimming around in the bucket, and start to float on top of the water. This is a normal reaction. Just poke the fish, and continue the dip IF the fish starts to move around again. If the fish does not react to your poking, take him out immediately. For bigger fish, even if they are swimming constantly for the whole 5 min, this is the maximum, anything longer than that can kill them.
If the fish, especially smaller ones, start to swim or roll around funny after being put into the dip, they need to be taken out right away, no matter how short the dip was. Then they are not able to handle the dip.

Of course, its not a good idea to put the fish back where he came from. The infected tank should be treated as well, while the dipped fish can house into some sort of hospital tank/tub.

Besides the parasite treatment, salt is also an excellent preventive for nitrite poisoning. Depending on how high your nitrite is and how long your fish has been exposed to it, a percentage of 0.1 to 0.3 is recommended to protect the fishies gill from the nitrite..... smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ranchugirl: Apr 20 2004, 07:55 AM

Hope this is useful.

Slugger

PS Good Luck!!!

Thanks Slugger! Should I add the filter thing to the salt dip when I do that? And I did put them in a tupperware tub with the filter and I stripped the tank good. I mean real good. Used bleach to clean it (rinsed for like 45 minutes too was afraid that bleech would still be on, but the fish expert said it was ok to use it if I rinsed well) and I put them back in the same tank afterwards. Is that ok? Well I gotta hit the hay...its 6am and I havent been to bed yet and I need to go to town at 10:30 am ewww. Been busy cleaning..expecting important family to visit over the weekend (would say who, but I think this site and my post would be so crazy and I would have to do a ton of reading.) All I am going to say is my "important" family are celebs. If this intregues you, and you really want to know who, you can email me at qtmonki01@gmail.com

Heres a few pointers on slat dips:


Definitely remove the fish after it starts floating on its side. Regardless of wether its gills are moving fine or not.

As long as the fish remains upright and is breathing, it can go longer.

You can use ANY recaptacle that has been well rinsed and never used to store chemicals like soaps and the like.

You can use the same salted dip on many fish in a row. But never for fish from different tanks. Discard when dips are done for the day.

Use a stopwatch and never go over the following times regardless of the fish reactions:

.75% dip - 20 minutes max

1.5% dip - 10 minutes max

3% dip - 5 minutes max

6% dip - 3 minutes max

No more than 1 dip per day, 3 days in a row. If this is reached and more dips are needed, give a day or two break before the next series of dips. Do not do more than 5 dips a week. Do not go more than 1 week straight for dips unless they are a low % and they arent done aggressively.


Hope these help!

Oh, and by the way, I am VERY intrigued about who your famous relative is. Maybe you could e-mail me that juicy tidbit. I swear to be tight-lipped about it!

Desiree,


Your reinforcements are on the way! Your prazi should be at your PO box by monday or tuesday. Probably monday.


I pre-measured the doses. They are in a 4 day pill box. Each box is two doses, one for each tank. When you go to mix the single dose for both tanks, just split the water that the prazi is in between the two tanks. Viola, your tanks are dosed and you have 3 more doses to go. You add the prazi, wait for 3-4 days, then add the next dose. Wait 3 more days then the next dose is added, etc, etc til its all gone.

Remember to remove any and ALL carbon from your filters before starting the prazi. The carbon that is in your penguin cartridges can be removed by cutting a slit along the VERY top edge of the blue filterfloss. then shake the living heck out of it into a plastic bag or trashcan. You don't have to remove every last little peice of carbon, just the majority.

I have link for you to peruse. I can't quite remember if I llinked you to it yet but it will help explain quite a bit about your filters, how they work and how to maintain them properly.

filters and maintenence


I sure hope the prazi makes it to you safe and sound. I'm sure it would look kinda suspicious if they were to peer inside and see a white powdery substance all packaged up.... I'm sure it will though.


Oh yeah, I forgot, look in the disease treatment forum here and look under skin and gill flukes. In there, I have a really good treatment regemine laid out. You don't have to do exactly what it says, The regime I laid out for you above will be fine. But, the mixing prazi part will be VERY useful because it does not like to mix with water easily.

Hows your goldie acting? All is well, I hope.


Good luck and let me know when you recieve your package!

Did you get it yet?