I have a fan tailed gold fish that I have had alone in a 3-4 gallon tank for about 3 years. He has been healthy until about 4-5 weeks ago. I noticed that he had some splitting of his tail, but someone told me that this was normal so I did nothing. I now know that this is not the case. He seemed a little less active, but I thought he was just getting big for his home and decided that I needed to get him a bigger tank. Anyway, I came home from work and found him floating on the top and knew that he must indeed have a problem. I started treating him with Maracyn=Two recognizing that his tail was probably splitting becuase of fin rot. He continued to float and developed some black spots so I started treating him with Pimafix daily. The black spots are gone now. I have also been treating him with melafix daily. He basically just floats on his side on the top of his water with his head a tail hanging down. He paddles back and forth on his side on the surface to eat, but he really does not seem to be able to get below the surface for more than 5 or so seconds. I suppose he could have droopsy, but he really does not look particularily fat. Some one suggested that I try to squeeze excess air from his air bladder shich I tried several weeks ago, but I was afraid of harming him so I may not have squeezed hard enough, but again he really does not look very bloated. He has a small undergravel filter, and I have also done several partial water changes, I always use Cauligan water from the grocery store. I have also been putting some stress coat in his water every few days and added some cycle to his water a few times (the last time about 1.5 weeks ago).
I have been told by several people that I should just put him to sleep by freezing him becuase he has a miserable existance, but I can not bring myself to do this unless I exaust all options. He moves his eyes around and looks at me and after all he is still eating. He has been floating now for about 3 weeks total I would say. I have been to the pet store several times and no one seems to know what is wrong with him and what else I might do to treat him. Also, he always has his same side up, his right side. I woould greatly appreciate any suggestions.
Full Version: Floating
The first thing I would do is a large water change of about 50%. I would also vacuum the gravel.
Next, I would get the water tested. Most fish stores will do this for you, free of charge. When you get the test done, ask for the numbers and write them down and post them here. That will help us know what is going on in your tank. It is especially important to know the numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and the ph.
I think what has happened is that your fish has outgrown his home and needs a bigger one. It is very difficult to maintain good water quality in a small tank once the fish gets bigger. If he is a fancy goldfish then he needs a minimum of 10 gallons and a common or comet would need 15-20 gallons.
Also, a undergravel filter is not really enough filtration for a goldfish. When they get larger they produce a lot of waste and you need to have a mechanical filter that turns the water over about 10 times. Also, your undergravel filter has been running for three years now and it could be very dirty under the filter plate and this could be contributing to poor water quality.
The black spots would indicate healing from ammonia burns, so that too is a clue that the water quality deteriorated.
I would also try fasting him for 48 hours. Sometimes constipation and gas can cause floating. However, this can be aggravated by high nitrate levels (so water quality can play a part). After the 48 hours fast, feed your fish slightly cooked green peas. I use frozen peas, and cook them for a few seconds in the microwave in a bit of water, then pop them out of their shells and squish a bit between my fingers. Peas act as a laxative for goldfish. The big plus is that goldfish love them and they are a treat, too!
Also, antibiotics such as maracyn 2 can cause the bacteria in the filter to die off, so you will have to keep a close eye on the water over the next few weeks. The water tests will help us do that.
I wouldn't euthanize him. Let's work together and see if we can get him better. Please feel free to ask questions and let us know what the results of the water tests are.
Next, I would get the water tested. Most fish stores will do this for you, free of charge. When you get the test done, ask for the numbers and write them down and post them here. That will help us know what is going on in your tank. It is especially important to know the numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and the ph.
I think what has happened is that your fish has outgrown his home and needs a bigger one. It is very difficult to maintain good water quality in a small tank once the fish gets bigger. If he is a fancy goldfish then he needs a minimum of 10 gallons and a common or comet would need 15-20 gallons.
Also, a undergravel filter is not really enough filtration for a goldfish. When they get larger they produce a lot of waste and you need to have a mechanical filter that turns the water over about 10 times. Also, your undergravel filter has been running for three years now and it could be very dirty under the filter plate and this could be contributing to poor water quality.
The black spots would indicate healing from ammonia burns, so that too is a clue that the water quality deteriorated.
I would also try fasting him for 48 hours. Sometimes constipation and gas can cause floating. However, this can be aggravated by high nitrate levels (so water quality can play a part). After the 48 hours fast, feed your fish slightly cooked green peas. I use frozen peas, and cook them for a few seconds in the microwave in a bit of water, then pop them out of their shells and squish a bit between my fingers. Peas act as a laxative for goldfish. The big plus is that goldfish love them and they are a treat, too!
Also, antibiotics such as maracyn 2 can cause the bacteria in the filter to die off, so you will have to keep a close eye on the water over the next few weeks. The water tests will help us do that.
I wouldn't euthanize him. Let's work together and see if we can get him better. Please feel free to ask questions and let us know what the results of the water tests are.
So, should I get him a new tank now? Should I continue with the antibiotics and the prima and mela fix. I have changes his undergravel filter many times, the last about two months ago, but I am afraid to do anything to drastic now as I am sure he is stressed.
I would probably stop the medications and work on the water quality. Do a 50% water change along with a gravel vac and get your water tested and post the results.
What you could do, is buy a mechanical filter. The type I would suggest, would be a hang on the back of the tank type of filter. AquaClear and Penguin are two good brands to choose from.
If you are planning on getting a 10 gallon tank, then get a filter that will pump 100 gallons of water per hour. If you are going to get a 20 gallon tank (and that is what I would get since a 20 gallon set up isn't much more expensive than a 10), get a filter that pumps 200 gallons per hour.
I would put this on your existing tank and run it for a few weeks before starting up the new tank. This will seed the filter with bacteria from your established tank. The current may be a little strong in a small tank, but with the AquaClears, you can turn the filter down to reduce the current. Also, you can drape a piece of filter floss in front of the filter to break the current. This works really well. You can buy filter floss cheaply from the fish store. I like the stuff that comes in sheets. You can also use 100% polyester quilt batting available from places like Wal-Mart to do this job.
You could also add a bit of salt to his tank. Use either aquarium salt, coarse salt or pickling salt (a salt without any additives). This acts as a tonic for goldfish and will help with healing. I would start with a dose of 1/2 tablespoon. Dissolve the salt in a cup of tank water before adding.
BTW, sometimes you will see good deals on the whole set up at fish stores (tank, filter, etc.). You could purchase that kind of thing, and set the filter on your old tank for a couple of weeks.
When you do set up your new tank, use the gravel from your existing tank, plus any ornaments you might have. These are also covered with beneficial bacteria which will help your new tank establish its cycle quickly. For more info on cycling a tank, please take a look at this link http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html
Please feel free to ask questions
What you could do, is buy a mechanical filter. The type I would suggest, would be a hang on the back of the tank type of filter. AquaClear and Penguin are two good brands to choose from.
If you are planning on getting a 10 gallon tank, then get a filter that will pump 100 gallons of water per hour. If you are going to get a 20 gallon tank (and that is what I would get since a 20 gallon set up isn't much more expensive than a 10), get a filter that pumps 200 gallons per hour.
I would put this on your existing tank and run it for a few weeks before starting up the new tank. This will seed the filter with bacteria from your established tank. The current may be a little strong in a small tank, but with the AquaClears, you can turn the filter down to reduce the current. Also, you can drape a piece of filter floss in front of the filter to break the current. This works really well. You can buy filter floss cheaply from the fish store. I like the stuff that comes in sheets. You can also use 100% polyester quilt batting available from places like Wal-Mart to do this job.
You could also add a bit of salt to his tank. Use either aquarium salt, coarse salt or pickling salt (a salt without any additives). This acts as a tonic for goldfish and will help with healing. I would start with a dose of 1/2 tablespoon. Dissolve the salt in a cup of tank water before adding.
BTW, sometimes you will see good deals on the whole set up at fish stores (tank, filter, etc.). You could purchase that kind of thing, and set the filter on your old tank for a couple of weeks.
When you do set up your new tank, use the gravel from your existing tank, plus any ornaments you might have. These are also covered with beneficial bacteria which will help your new tank establish its cycle quickly. For more info on cycling a tank, please take a look at this link http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html
Please feel free to ask questions
Currently my fish is in a 3.5-4 gallon glass vase, so adding a standard fish tank filter is not an option as. I could purchase a new tank use my old gravel and use some water from the vase to set up the new tank. I could also purchase some tank bacteria if need be from the pet store to jump start the tank (I did this with my tropical tank and I assume that the bacteria for gold fish is pretty much the same).
I checked my water and, Nitrate and Amonia levels are 0, however my pH is way high at about 8.8. I am not sure if this is from all the additives or what. I did go ahead and add some Culligan water, which has a currently has a pH of 8 according to my test kit. I have tested the Culligan water in the past and generally got a pH of just below 7, so I am not sure if the pH is higher now becuase I have had the water stored in the gallon jug for several weeks or what. I could also pick up some pH adjust, but I do not want to make to drastic of a change and prefer a more natural lating method. I will get some new Culligan water today and check the pH on it before adding any more.
I checked my water and, Nitrate and Amonia levels are 0, however my pH is way high at about 8.8. I am not sure if this is from all the additives or what. I did go ahead and add some Culligan water, which has a currently has a pH of 8 according to my test kit. I have tested the Culligan water in the past and generally got a pH of just below 7, so I am not sure if the pH is higher now becuase I have had the water stored in the gallon jug for several weeks or what. I could also pick up some pH adjust, but I do not want to make to drastic of a change and prefer a more natural lating method. I will get some new Culligan water today and check the pH on it before adding any more.
Yes, it is not good to lower the ph quickly. That is very stressful to fish. I would gradually introduce the lower ph water over a period of several days to get the ph down. A ph of 8 is fine for goldfish and it is best to get a stable ph, rather than using products to adjust it, since then the ph will swing up and down.
There is a product called Biospira which is supposed to be excellent for adding bacteria to a tank. It is refrigerated, so you would have to ask for it at the fish store.
Using the old gravel is definitely a plus. Just rinse it lightly in dechlorinated water (just neutral in temperature) to take out any debris and put it in the new tank. Don't wash it vigorously as that might destroy the beneficial bacteria.
There is a product called Biospira which is supposed to be excellent for adding bacteria to a tank. It is refrigerated, so you would have to ask for it at the fish store.
Using the old gravel is definitely a plus. Just rinse it lightly in dechlorinated water (just neutral in temperature) to take out any debris and put it in the new tank. Don't wash it vigorously as that might destroy the beneficial bacteria.
Ok, 48 hours was up this morning and I attempted to feed him the inside parts of the peas. The problem is, the peas sink and the fish only floats. After reading this site I now realize that I should be feeding him sinking food so that he does not get air in his stomach, but he is used to floating food and did not even attempt to eat the sinking pea pieces when I dropped them right in front of him. Anyway, I took him out and put him in about an inch of water finally got him to eat a few pea pieces, but when I put him back in his home it looked like he spit them out. I am hoping he kept a few peices in, but he did not eat much to start with. Will the pea debris damage the water quality? I was unable to scoop them out as they just swirl around. I looked at the constipation photo, and he does kinda look like that, but is is suprising to me that he could survive three week constipated and floating. Is it possible that that he has a problem with his swim bladder or has droopsy? I don't really see his scales sticking out. He really can not get down from the surface at all and I am worried that he might be ingesting more air while he is up there which will just keep him floating. Any further suggestions?
Also, he seems to have some black tips on a few of his fins. Some sort of fungus from stress and lack of movement? I have been using Pimafix and Melafix do you suggest anything else?
I also inquired about salt at the pet store. They tried to sell me a carton of doc Wellfish's aquarium salt, and thought that sodium chloride salt was not siutable for goldfish. They said that it would kill him, so I was afraid to use it. What I was going to purchase was the salt that is used for salt water tanks. Is this suitable? I had some Doc Wellfish aquarium salt at home, so I did put some of this in his tank. Do I add this just once and then a suitable amout each time I do a water change?
Last, I did buy my fish a new and larger home. I got it set up yesterday evening, so it will take some time to cycle. It is a 26 gallon beautiful bow front tank with an AquaClear 20 to 50 gallon tank filter. Since the amonia levels and nitrates are fine in his current tank I figure it was probably best just to leave him there for the time being. I did not buy the quick start bacteria, as I plan to treat him in his current home as long as his water quality remains suitable as it takes smaller doses of additives.
Also, he seems to have some black tips on a few of his fins. Some sort of fungus from stress and lack of movement? I have been using Pimafix and Melafix do you suggest anything else?
I also inquired about salt at the pet store. They tried to sell me a carton of doc Wellfish's aquarium salt, and thought that sodium chloride salt was not siutable for goldfish. They said that it would kill him, so I was afraid to use it. What I was going to purchase was the salt that is used for salt water tanks. Is this suitable? I had some Doc Wellfish aquarium salt at home, so I did put some of this in his tank. Do I add this just once and then a suitable amout each time I do a water change?
Last, I did buy my fish a new and larger home. I got it set up yesterday evening, so it will take some time to cycle. It is a 26 gallon beautiful bow front tank with an AquaClear 20 to 50 gallon tank filter. Since the amonia levels and nitrates are fine in his current tank I figure it was probably best just to leave him there for the time being. I did not buy the quick start bacteria, as I plan to treat him in his current home as long as his water quality remains suitable as it takes smaller doses of additives.
I have always seen results after a 48 hour fast if the floating was caused by constipation or gas. I am wondering if we are dealing with a swimbladder disorder. There are various theories as to why fish develop swimbladder problems including abnormal swimbladder development, bacterial problems, high nitrates, viruses, etc.
Have you tested the nitrite level in your current tank? I know you have tested ammonia and nitrate, but nitrite is a different thing, and once I had a fish suffering from high nitrites and he floated on his side. One thing to check is whether the fish has brownish gills. The gills should be red and meaty looking, but with nitrite poisoning, the fish's gills and blood become brownish. It was quite noticeable in my fish because it was a white fish.
The black on the fins is a sign of healing. The fish has sustained some sort of damage which is now healing. Usually it is as a result of ammonia burns.
The people at the fish store gave you the wrong advice. Goldfish tolerate salt very well and doc Wellfish's aquarium salt is totally suitable to use. I believe I have given you the dose for your small tank in one of my previous posts. You would add this the one time, then re-add a suitable amount after water changes.
You know, all things considered, and this is just my personal opinion, but I would put your fish in the big tank sooner, rather than later. The water conditions in the big tank even though it isn't cycled is going to be better than in a bowl. Use the existing gravel and any ornaments, and if you can find it, Biospira.
JMO, and please keep me posted.
Have you tested the nitrite level in your current tank? I know you have tested ammonia and nitrate, but nitrite is a different thing, and once I had a fish suffering from high nitrites and he floated on his side. One thing to check is whether the fish has brownish gills. The gills should be red and meaty looking, but with nitrite poisoning, the fish's gills and blood become brownish. It was quite noticeable in my fish because it was a white fish.
The black on the fins is a sign of healing. The fish has sustained some sort of damage which is now healing. Usually it is as a result of ammonia burns.
The people at the fish store gave you the wrong advice. Goldfish tolerate salt very well and doc Wellfish's aquarium salt is totally suitable to use. I believe I have given you the dose for your small tank in one of my previous posts. You would add this the one time, then re-add a suitable amount after water changes.
You know, all things considered, and this is just my personal opinion, but I would put your fish in the big tank sooner, rather than later. The water conditions in the big tank even though it isn't cycled is going to be better than in a bowl. Use the existing gravel and any ornaments, and if you can find it, Biospira.
JMO, and please keep me posted.
I have a suggestion for your fish not eating the peas. I had the same problem with my fish Harry, so I put him in a small mesh seperator used for sick fish when I fed him. It was small enough that the food resting on the bottom was not far from his head at all, he managed to get it without too much trouble.
As for your fish being used to floating food, after being offered nothing but sinking they adjust after a few days and figure out how to eat the sinking stuff.
From someone who's trying to deal with a floating fish as well...Good Luck!
As for your fish being used to floating food, after being offered nothing but sinking they adjust after a few days and figure out how to eat the sinking stuff.
From someone who's trying to deal with a floating fish as well...Good Luck!
Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. Here is the update.
Water
Checked the Nitrite and rechecked the Nitrate, both are negative. Since I have added Primafix, Metafix, Cycle, Stress Coat and Maracyn-Two ( the water smells like BenGay) it is possible that these things interfere with the tests. They may also be actually buffering or lowering levels as well. The water is green, in part becuase the Maracyn-Two turned it green, but I am also getting some algae growth in the tank now. I thought it bet not to disturb the algae at this time, let me know if you think otherwise. I did not want to send it floating in the water where it could get hung up in the fish gills.
New Tank
The tank has only been set up since last night. I added the appropriate amout of Cycle last night and Stress Zyme today. I am also concerned because I used 8 gallons of Culligan water and 18 gallons of tap water to set it up. My tap water comes from a community well and the well water was chlorinated just 2 weeks or so ago. I want to give ample time for the chlorine to evaporate and for the tank to cycle. It is just slightly milky now, so expect it will get a lot worse before it gets better. Is there anything else that I should add to get the water ready given that I used so much well water, I do not know if the water contains metals or anything like that. I could buy the bacteria tomorrow, as there is a store in town that sells it, but I used it before on my tropical tank and it still took more than a week for the amonia level to drop. Let me know what you think in term of time frame for putting the fish in this tank and if you still think I should get the baqcteria. I am really concerned about amonia in the new tank as I know it went way up in my tropical tank when it was cycling and at least I know my amonia level is reading 0 in the current tank. I just do not know if my fish, Confucius whom I now believe to be a female, could take it. It will be very difficult to do water changes on a 26 gallon tank since I will need to bring in water from the store. In my current 3-4 gallon tank I can change water much more easily if levels elevate. I also do not want to funk up the water in the new tank too much. The old tank is pretty darn green from the Maracyn-Two.
Confucius
She is pretty much the same.....still floating on her side on the top. I did move her to the small container and feed her some peas this evening, and she seemed to eat them pretty well. I did not see her spit them out this time. How long should it take for the pea remedy to work? I have not seem her poop, so perhaps she is constipated and full of gas. How would I know if it is a swim bladder problem as opposed to constipation and bloating? In terms of the black on the tip of her fins or tail, if this is indeed a sign of healing, I am thinking that it might be the healing from the fin rot that she had as opposed to burns from elevated amonia. It is just on the tips and I did treat her for 10 or more days with the Maracyn-Two as I suspected fin rot becuase of splitting in her tail.
Water
Checked the Nitrite and rechecked the Nitrate, both are negative. Since I have added Primafix, Metafix, Cycle, Stress Coat and Maracyn-Two ( the water smells like BenGay) it is possible that these things interfere with the tests. They may also be actually buffering or lowering levels as well. The water is green, in part becuase the Maracyn-Two turned it green, but I am also getting some algae growth in the tank now. I thought it bet not to disturb the algae at this time, let me know if you think otherwise. I did not want to send it floating in the water where it could get hung up in the fish gills.
New Tank
The tank has only been set up since last night. I added the appropriate amout of Cycle last night and Stress Zyme today. I am also concerned because I used 8 gallons of Culligan water and 18 gallons of tap water to set it up. My tap water comes from a community well and the well water was chlorinated just 2 weeks or so ago. I want to give ample time for the chlorine to evaporate and for the tank to cycle. It is just slightly milky now, so expect it will get a lot worse before it gets better. Is there anything else that I should add to get the water ready given that I used so much well water, I do not know if the water contains metals or anything like that. I could buy the bacteria tomorrow, as there is a store in town that sells it, but I used it before on my tropical tank and it still took more than a week for the amonia level to drop. Let me know what you think in term of time frame for putting the fish in this tank and if you still think I should get the baqcteria. I am really concerned about amonia in the new tank as I know it went way up in my tropical tank when it was cycling and at least I know my amonia level is reading 0 in the current tank. I just do not know if my fish, Confucius whom I now believe to be a female, could take it. It will be very difficult to do water changes on a 26 gallon tank since I will need to bring in water from the store. In my current 3-4 gallon tank I can change water much more easily if levels elevate. I also do not want to funk up the water in the new tank too much. The old tank is pretty darn green from the Maracyn-Two.
Confucius
She is pretty much the same.....still floating on her side on the top. I did move her to the small container and feed her some peas this evening, and she seemed to eat them pretty well. I did not see her spit them out this time. How long should it take for the pea remedy to work? I have not seem her poop, so perhaps she is constipated and full of gas. How would I know if it is a swim bladder problem as opposed to constipation and bloating? In terms of the black on the tip of her fins or tail, if this is indeed a sign of healing, I am thinking that it might be the healing from the fin rot that she had as opposed to burns from elevated amonia. It is just on the tips and I did treat her for 10 or more days with the Maracyn-Two as I suspected fin rot becuase of splitting in her tail.
Ok, I went ahead and added the BioSpira to mynew tank water. Before doing so here were the water perameters:
Amonia 0.5-1.0 PPM
pH 8.2-8.4
Nitrate- greater than 0, less than 5.0mg/L
Nitrite 0
The bacteria sent in around 15 minutes ago, I will check parameters tonight and see if anything has changed.
If I add the water and rocks from my old tank the Maracyn-Two may kill off my good bacteria.
Amonia 0.5-1.0 PPM
pH 8.2-8.4
Nitrate- greater than 0, less than 5.0mg/L
Nitrite 0
The bacteria sent in around 15 minutes ago, I will check parameters tonight and see if anything has changed.
If I add the water and rocks from my old tank the Maracyn-Two may kill off my good bacteria.
So, from your readings there is an ammonia reading in the water even without any aquatic life? Maybe you could test the water directly from the tap and see if there is an ammonia reading in your tap water.
With a high ph ammonia is more toxic.
Here are a couple of good pages to read about cycling
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html
There is also a method of cycling a tank without fish. Here is a link to that page:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html
In your previous post you mentioned your well water. A good water conditioner to use is Prime by Seachem. It will take care of chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals. It also helps detoxify ammonia and nitrite.
With a high ph ammonia is more toxic.
Here are a couple of good pages to read about cycling
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html
There is also a method of cycling a tank without fish. Here is a link to that page:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html
In your previous post you mentioned your well water. A good water conditioner to use is Prime by Seachem. It will take care of chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals. It also helps detoxify ammonia and nitrite.
Sea salt IS ok to use my dear. 1tsp per gallon. I have the Gourmet All natural sea salt I am using. And I do agree, I think it might be Swim bladder (floating disease). You could try hand feeding her as well.
The good new is that my amonia in my new tank is much lower than the amonia in my tap water. My tap water is 2-4 PPM and the amonia level in my new tank is about 0.5 PPM right now. It does look as though my tank water is clearing as well. Also, I have only plastic plants in this new tank.
Is the high amonia level harmful to humans or to my dogs? My two year old Golden just had a suspicious mass removed on Tuesday (pathology reuslts should be back tomorrow). Now I am wondering about my water quality in general. This is a farming area and who knows what type of pesticides, herbicides and biological materials could be in the water. We have a water conditioner that was in the house when we bought it and we pay a monthly fee for it, add salt and change the filter when the water pressure deteriorates.
Back to the fish. She is the same, still floating at the top. I have been hand feeding her peas once a day the last few days, and she has been eating the peas pretty well. I have not given her anything else to eat. Is this what I should be doing? What do I do if it is SBD?
I am hhoping that the amonia is on the way down in my new tank now. Maybe just another few days until I can move her.
Is the high amonia level harmful to humans or to my dogs? My two year old Golden just had a suspicious mass removed on Tuesday (pathology reuslts should be back tomorrow). Now I am wondering about my water quality in general. This is a farming area and who knows what type of pesticides, herbicides and biological materials could be in the water. We have a water conditioner that was in the house when we bought it and we pay a monthly fee for it, add salt and change the filter when the water pressure deteriorates.
Back to the fish. She is the same, still floating at the top. I have been hand feeding her peas once a day the last few days, and she has been eating the peas pretty well. I have not given her anything else to eat. Is this what I should be doing? What do I do if it is SBD?
I am hhoping that the amonia is on the way down in my new tank now. Maybe just another few days until I can move her.
qumonki01, I was reading somthing that you posted on another thread. You stated somthing about the position of a fish lying on the bossom of a tank having some significance. Anyway, my fish has been floating on her right side for 3-4 weeks now. Never on her left side. Her tail and head hang down, which I assumed was because her abdomen was full of air and her head and tail were heavy (she is a fan tailed goldfish with a very long and beautiful tail). Anyway, I was wondering if this positioning could give any clue as to the ailment. Please let me know if anything comes to mind. I do not see any scales sticking out.
How about medicated food? Is there a medicated food that might decrease bloating and kill unwanted bacteria in her belly? I saw it mentioned on another thread, but I have not seen it in the pet sotre.
Should my new tank amonia be at 0 before I put my fish in, it is still 0.50 this morning?
Beth
Should my new tank amonia be at 0 before I put my fish in, it is still 0.50 this morning?
Beth
Hi Beth,
Medication food is available on line
https://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/lis....php?parentId=5
Here is a link to a very good article on the forum about swimbladder disorder
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=12750
I think your tank may stall at .50 unless you have some aquatic life in the tank to feed the bacteria or unless you are feeding it yourself using the fishless method of cycling. Here is a link to fishless cycling:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html
I would think you would have to get your water tested to see if anything is remaining after it goes through the water conditioner.
I don't know what to suggest about putting your fish in the new tank. I think that the water quality is going to be better in a 25 gallon tank even when it is cycling than in a 3 gallon bowl, however, this is really your call. Since your fish is sick, it is hard to know what to do
Medication food is available on line
https://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/lis....php?parentId=5
Here is a link to a very good article on the forum about swimbladder disorder
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=12750
I think your tank may stall at .50 unless you have some aquatic life in the tank to feed the bacteria or unless you are feeding it yourself using the fishless method of cycling. Here is a link to fishless cycling:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html
I would think you would have to get your water tested to see if anything is remaining after it goes through the water conditioner.
I don't know what to suggest about putting your fish in the new tank. I think that the water quality is going to be better in a 25 gallon tank even when it is cycling than in a 3 gallon bowl, however, this is really your call. Since your fish is sick, it is hard to know what to do
New Tank, as of this morning my amonia lvl is just a trace, my Ph is 8.2 and my nitrate is about 10, so my tank is defintely cycling. I did not add any amonia to the tank water to feed my bacteria, I guess that it was not necessary as the water had a high amonia content, but now that the bacteria have broken down almost all the amonia, I guess I will need to add my fish? What about the nitrate lvl? I know that I can expect it to up as a result of amonia breakdown, but will this lvl be harmful to my already sick fish?
As far as my fish istelf, I did a 100% water change Friday night. Fed her peas again at that time. Now that may water is pristine, I am able to identify new fish poop, and I do indeed see some, my fish however is still floating. I put melafix and primafix and salt in her water before I put her back in. I worked yesterday but was planning to see if I could find some medicated fish food or internal parasiticidal medication as per SBD link you sent.
Any other advice?
As far as my fish istelf, I did a 100% water change Friday night. Fed her peas again at that time. Now that may water is pristine, I am able to identify new fish poop, and I do indeed see some, my fish however is still floating. I put melafix and primafix and salt in her water before I put her back in. I worked yesterday but was planning to see if I could find some medicated fish food or internal parasiticidal medication as per SBD link you sent.
Any other advice?
Your tank water sounds good. I would move her in. The nitrate level you have now won't be harmful to your fish but try not to let it go much above 20.
I would try to get the medicated food, and continued to feed a varied diet with lots of vegetables and soak any commericial food in tank water.
I think we will have to wait and see if she continues to float. Unfortunately, she may have a deformity or permanent damage to her swim bladder
Please keep me posted on her progress.
I would try to get the medicated food, and continued to feed a varied diet with lots of vegetables and soak any commericial food in tank water.
I think we will have to wait and see if she continues to float. Unfortunately, she may have a deformity or permanent damage to her swim bladder
Please keep me posted on her progress.
What type of vegies?
I should have mentioned that when you get the medicated food, you will have to feed that exclusively for a minimum of 7 days. The instructions will be on the package.
I feed all kind of veggies to my fish. They especially like blanched zucchini. I cut the zucchini into wedges, and cook lightly in a bit of water in the microwave until soft. The zucchini will sink when it is cooked enough. Goldfish love the soft centre of the zucchini. I have bottom feeders and snails in my tanks and they finish off the skin. If you only have the goldfish, you can remove the skin. I also feed lightly cooked broccoli and cauliflower (I break off the tiny florets for the fish), boiled potatoes broken into small pieces, also bits of tomato. They also like frozen spinach (that just has to be thawed) and, of course, peas. I also feed well cooked white rice on occasion. Goldfish also like fruit such as strawberries, cantaloupe and oranges.
Sounds good, doesn't it
I feed all kind of veggies to my fish. They especially like blanched zucchini. I cut the zucchini into wedges, and cook lightly in a bit of water in the microwave until soft. The zucchini will sink when it is cooked enough. Goldfish love the soft centre of the zucchini. I have bottom feeders and snails in my tanks and they finish off the skin. If you only have the goldfish, you can remove the skin. I also feed lightly cooked broccoli and cauliflower (I break off the tiny florets for the fish), boiled potatoes broken into small pieces, also bits of tomato. They also like frozen spinach (that just has to be thawed) and, of course, peas. I also feed well cooked white rice on occasion. Goldfish also like fruit such as strawberries, cantaloupe and oranges.
Sounds good, doesn't it
No change, waiting for meidicated food to arrive. Hand feeding once a day, 75% peas, 25% soaked sinking goldfish food.
I am sorry to hear that there isn't any change.
How is your new tank doing?
How is your new tank doing?
Good memory of the laying of side bit. Laying at an angle, or floating at an angle suggests a couple of things. 1. Bacteria/Parasite problem attacking the main bloodstream of the fish 2. Nervous system disoder
How was she acting before you saw her floating? Any other symptoms perhaps? You should also use an ammonia remover of some sort (someone will know what it is called). I believe, not sure, but a water conditioner may help remove the ammonia. Also I have a suggestion as for the dog, and for your family. Look for a water purifier that you can attach on your sink thingy that pushes out the water (hey, I am no home fixer person lol). Well when looking for the water purifier, see what it can remove. I know it removes a lot of minerals and things like that. It's spendy--but I personally think it is worth it. I mean, would you want to be drinking ammonia everyday? That thought eww to me. Also, for the fish, you could use the purified water too or you could extremely rinse really good the milk jugs and store water in there. Let the water sit for a couple of days--then do a param test on it (see what your levels of hardness, alkanity, pH, nitrIte, nitrAte, ammonia) are. If I understand this correctly, being my mother is well unique, the ammonia is supposedly to die off in a couple of days. She has had a fish for about 2 years now in a fish bowl and she always lets the water sit a couple of days. Now if I can only convince her that an aquirum is better for the the fish lol. Laura or Toothy? You think that will help?
How was she acting before you saw her floating? Any other symptoms perhaps? You should also use an ammonia remover of some sort (someone will know what it is called). I believe, not sure, but a water conditioner may help remove the ammonia. Also I have a suggestion as for the dog, and for your family. Look for a water purifier that you can attach on your sink thingy that pushes out the water (hey, I am no home fixer person lol). Well when looking for the water purifier, see what it can remove. I know it removes a lot of minerals and things like that. It's spendy--but I personally think it is worth it. I mean, would you want to be drinking ammonia everyday? That thought eww to me. Also, for the fish, you could use the purified water too or you could extremely rinse really good the milk jugs and store water in there. Let the water sit for a couple of days--then do a param test on it (see what your levels of hardness, alkanity, pH, nitrIte, nitrAte, ammonia) are. If I understand this correctly, being my mother is well unique, the ammonia is supposedly to die off in a couple of days. She has had a fish for about 2 years now in a fish bowl and she always lets the water sit a couple of days. Now if I can only convince her that an aquirum is better for the the fish lol. Laura or Toothy? You think that will help?
I have been reading your thread and agree with Valerie. I do think the fish could have some repercusions from living in poor conditions. (please don't feel bad, most people don't know and that is how we learn.)
However I do have something that comes to mind and off hand I can't think of where to find the link but often if food is old or gone off in any way when a fish eats eat toxins can build up and release "gases" that cause severe damage to the fish's oragans. TOS you may be able to locate that "thread" quicker than I can...........do you know what condition I am refering?
Anyway, reguardless of what could have caused the problem I believe you have a fish now who is compromised by SBD. Not a fun thing to have. So I would continue with getting the appropriate water condtions set up and go ahead and put the fish in the new tank.
Do test both PH's so that they are at least close to each other before moving the fish.
At this point I would stop ALL medications asap. They are only going to compromise the fish at this point. The medicated food should be enough to ward off any bacterial infections. Feed it like TOS said no less than 7 days. Usually between 7-10 days (just like you or I would take an antibotic).
As far as parasites go, I am not convinced this is warented further inspection until the water is under control for a while. With the present signs, I suspect constipation, SBD, and maybe toxic gas build up. All of which unfortuntely can be cured very easily if ever.
Now for the ammonia problem coming out of the tap, hmmm I would think that this is alittle high for any consumption. I would contact someone, since it isn't city water I am not sure who you would call but I would investigate that.
As TOS suggested Prime is the best water conditioner on the market IMO. It gets rid of alot of metals the rest do not.
Oh, the stress coat I would stop using. It contains aloevera which can build up on the gills and cause problems for the fish. It is a good product but only for once in awhile.
Good luck and hang in there.
However I do have something that comes to mind and off hand I can't think of where to find the link but often if food is old or gone off in any way when a fish eats eat toxins can build up and release "gases" that cause severe damage to the fish's oragans. TOS you may be able to locate that "thread" quicker than I can...........do you know what condition I am refering?
Anyway, reguardless of what could have caused the problem I believe you have a fish now who is compromised by SBD. Not a fun thing to have. So I would continue with getting the appropriate water condtions set up and go ahead and put the fish in the new tank.
Do test both PH's so that they are at least close to each other before moving the fish.
At this point I would stop ALL medications asap. They are only going to compromise the fish at this point. The medicated food should be enough to ward off any bacterial infections. Feed it like TOS said no less than 7 days. Usually between 7-10 days (just like you or I would take an antibotic).
As far as parasites go, I am not convinced this is warented further inspection until the water is under control for a while. With the present signs, I suspect constipation, SBD, and maybe toxic gas build up. All of which unfortuntely can be cured very easily if ever.
Now for the ammonia problem coming out of the tap, hmmm I would think that this is alittle high for any consumption. I would contact someone, since it isn't city water I am not sure who you would call but I would investigate that.
As TOS suggested Prime is the best water conditioner on the market IMO. It gets rid of alot of metals the rest do not.
Oh, the stress coat I would stop using. It contains aloevera which can build up on the gills and cause problems for the fish. It is a good product but only for once in awhile.
Good luck and hang in there.
Thanks, Laurie, for your help. I'll take a look around and see if I can find the thread about the food going off or being bad.
Thanks everyone for suggestions for fishy and water.
Here is the fish update:
She has been in her 26 gallon tank now for a about a week, give or take a few days. The amonia lvl was trace, the Nitrite was 0.25, the nitrate 0, and pH of 8.2ish. As of this morning, amonia nitrite, nitrate, and amonio are all basically 0, pH has remained stable at 8.2. The Medi-Gold food arrived in the mail yesterday, so I hand fed her this food last night. To feed her I must remove her from the tanks as she is not able to dive or get around well enough to get to the food. So I scoop her up into a tupperware container with an inch or two of water for feeding.
She continues to float on her side right side with her fan tail and head hanging down. She now has a red spot on her left side, I beleive that it is likely where her abdomen sticks out of the surface of the water. Perhaps the skin got dry? Also, could she have a burn from the aquarium lamp? She floated a long time in 3-4 gallon glass vase and never got a red spot, but there was no overhead light. I have cut down the number of hours that her lamp is on and have started dribbling stress coat directly onto the affected area. I read a thread about putting vasaline on sores? Is this somthing I should try? I am surprised it sticks to a wet fish.
I really think that paracites are unlikely as she has been alone in her water and tank for quite some time. The only water I used in her vase was Culligan. I used some tapwater and some Culligan Water when I set up the new tank as 26 gallons of water is a lot to haul back from the store. I did add a variety of agents to the water to detoxify etc. At this point with everything I have read I really think it is likely SBD.
Also, I got this book on goldfish, I ordered it when I ordered the Medi-Gold. The book describes a technique for aspirating air from the swim bladder using a small needle and syringe. I have access to such supplies and thought I might give it a try if I see no improvement after several days of medicated food. I am wondering if anyone else has any experience with this. land marks are listed for locating the proper needle insertion site, but I am wondering if they are different in a fat fan tailed goldfish like mine versus a more slender built traditional goldfish. Anyone have any experience successfully performing this proceedure. I think I can do it (mentally), but I am not to sure about holding a two inch long goldfish still while I attempt.
Here is the fish update:
She has been in her 26 gallon tank now for a about a week, give or take a few days. The amonia lvl was trace, the Nitrite was 0.25, the nitrate 0, and pH of 8.2ish. As of this morning, amonia nitrite, nitrate, and amonio are all basically 0, pH has remained stable at 8.2. The Medi-Gold food arrived in the mail yesterday, so I hand fed her this food last night. To feed her I must remove her from the tanks as she is not able to dive or get around well enough to get to the food. So I scoop her up into a tupperware container with an inch or two of water for feeding.
She continues to float on her side right side with her fan tail and head hanging down. She now has a red spot on her left side, I beleive that it is likely where her abdomen sticks out of the surface of the water. Perhaps the skin got dry? Also, could she have a burn from the aquarium lamp? She floated a long time in 3-4 gallon glass vase and never got a red spot, but there was no overhead light. I have cut down the number of hours that her lamp is on and have started dribbling stress coat directly onto the affected area. I read a thread about putting vasaline on sores? Is this somthing I should try? I am surprised it sticks to a wet fish.
I really think that paracites are unlikely as she has been alone in her water and tank for quite some time. The only water I used in her vase was Culligan. I used some tapwater and some Culligan Water when I set up the new tank as 26 gallons of water is a lot to haul back from the store. I did add a variety of agents to the water to detoxify etc. At this point with everything I have read I really think it is likely SBD.
Also, I got this book on goldfish, I ordered it when I ordered the Medi-Gold. The book describes a technique for aspirating air from the swim bladder using a small needle and syringe. I have access to such supplies and thought I might give it a try if I see no improvement after several days of medicated food. I am wondering if anyone else has any experience with this. land marks are listed for locating the proper needle insertion site, but I am wondering if they are different in a fat fan tailed goldfish like mine versus a more slender built traditional goldfish. Anyone have any experience successfully performing this proceedure. I think I can do it (mentally), but I am not to sure about holding a two inch long goldfish still while I attempt.
Hi Beth,
Awrieger did this and posted about it on the site. Perhaps you could PM her and ask her about it. I just realized you don't have enough posts to PM her, so I will do it for you and ask if she will look at this thread
You can just leave the light off in the tank for now. I have a couple of tanks that don't have lights. It doesn't seem to matter to the fish.
Awrieger did this and posted about it on the site. Perhaps you could PM her and ask her about it. I just realized you don't have enough posts to PM her, so I will do it for you and ask if she will look at this thread
You can just leave the light off in the tank for now. I have a couple of tanks that don't have lights. It doesn't seem to matter to the fish.
Beth,
Just coincidentally, I received a notice about a post from awrieger for one of her threads about trying to right a flipped fish.
You should read this thread, there is lots of good info in it.
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...20&#entry346237
Just coincidentally, I received a notice about a post from awrieger for one of her threads about trying to right a flipped fish.
You should read this thread, there is lots of good info in it.
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...20&#entry346237
Thanks for the link. The tetracycline being neutralized by the Epsom salts is interesting, and certianly somthing to keep in mind for the future.
The Maracyn-Two that I used is Minocycline (related to Tetracycline, but not the same medication), so I do not know if it is neutralized by the Epsom as is the Tetracycline. I do know that it turned my water very green, not red or brown, and the green was not from overgrowth of bacteria or algae ( although I did have some algae growth as welll) becuase I dissolved the medication in some Culligan water before putting it in the tank, and the water in the glass turned green within 10-15 minutes. The Maracyn-Two package also states that "biological filtration is not affected." This is what it states, I suppose that this may nor necessarily be the case.
Anyway, I was adding the Maracyn-Two for a week or more before I ever salted my tank, so I am sure my fishy got a good dose. I also treated for more days than indicated on the package. I did not see any change except I think she had a bit of fin rot which improved.
Also, what type of salt is that Doc Wellfish salt that I have been using? The package does not say. Would this be constered a Epsom salt? Do you know what electrolytes it produces? It surely tastes similar to table salt. Actually I just pealed back the price tag and it states that is is from evaporated sea water, so I guess it definitely has Sodium and Chloride in it, but I am not sure what else might be in there.,
The Maracyn-Two that I used is Minocycline (related to Tetracycline, but not the same medication), so I do not know if it is neutralized by the Epsom as is the Tetracycline. I do know that it turned my water very green, not red or brown, and the green was not from overgrowth of bacteria or algae ( although I did have some algae growth as welll) becuase I dissolved the medication in some Culligan water before putting it in the tank, and the water in the glass turned green within 10-15 minutes. The Maracyn-Two package also states that "biological filtration is not affected." This is what it states, I suppose that this may nor necessarily be the case.
Anyway, I was adding the Maracyn-Two for a week or more before I ever salted my tank, so I am sure my fishy got a good dose. I also treated for more days than indicated on the package. I did not see any change except I think she had a bit of fin rot which improved.
Also, what type of salt is that Doc Wellfish salt that I have been using? The package does not say. Would this be constered a Epsom salt? Do you know what electrolytes it produces? It surely tastes similar to table salt. Actually I just pealed back the price tag and it states that is is from evaporated sea water, so I guess it definitely has Sodium and Chloride in it, but I am not sure what else might be in there.,
Hi Beth. The salt you're using is as you say Sodium Chloride. Epsom salts aren't really salts per se, being Magnesium Sulphate. Totally different effects on the fish. The epsoms relieve internal pressure amongst other things. Actually, I'd suggest not using the salt.
Also, you don't need to needle-aspirate your fish's airsac because it's not an airsac problem. If it was the airsac full of too much gas it wouldn't make the fish flip, but rather it would still stay normally upright and just bob to the surface like a buoy. This is what happened to my fish, which is why I tried the aspiration needle trick, which worked in a limited way.
But your fish is flipping, not upright, which means the gas buildup is in her belly. There's literally enough gas there to not only overcome the fish's air-sac balance and flip her, but also float her to the surface as well. Aspirating her airsac will just make her float a little lower (if at all), but she'd stll stay flipped.
The gas comes from the waste of bacteria, so everyone's suggestion of using the antibiotic food is the best one. Get rid of the cause first and foremost, which is the bacteria. (I only wish we had that stuff here in Australia!). But keep it up diligently for the recommended full 7 days at least. You should see the flipping and floating easing in intensity and she should start being able to upright herself on her own, even if it's with great difficulty. Take that as a good sign!
Does her belly feel mushy and soft (compared to the rest of her)? This means the infection has spread from her intestines to her muscles and fat deposits so the treatment should be carried on for longer to make sure you get those extra bacteria too.
But don't worry if it looks like it's not working though. Just keep up with the full week's worth anyway. You need to be sure you've zapped as much of the bacteria in her tummy as possible. And even though you may have zapped the bacteria, the gas may still be there and she's still flipping/floating.
If she hasn't uprighted herself by the end of the antibiotic treatment, then you can move on to an epsom salt treatment (1 teaspoon per 20 litres for 5-7 days) to eradicate the gas and finish off any surviving bacteria as well anyway (it's an osmosis thing, they laxative to death literally dying of dehydration in water, I think). Don't feed during the epsom treatment. No point as it's a laxative anyway!
Okay, well what you *should* be seeing after all this is a normal swimming fish again *if* it's just a bacterial infection. Other things can cause it which are incurable, or the damage may be permanent depending on how long it's been left untreated. It's all based on assuming it's a still-current bacterial intestinal infection, so I don't want to get your hopes up and expect a 100% guaranteed cure, which it isn't, if it's not, if you know what I mean! In fact, in 6 months of visiting goldfish forums, I've seen very few success stories with fixing a flipped fish permanently.
Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps!
PS. Don't use other medications while usig the antibiotic food. Also, I wouldn't bother with the Pimafix. That's just some wierd tree sap stuff or something. Not pleasant to the fish at all by some reports unless it's added to Melafix to sooth the stinging it causes. Melafix is also a tree sap, but it's tea-tree oil, so I suppose it's okay. But they aren't 'medicines'.
PPS. Try and keep your water as clean as possible for the duration of treatment. 25% water change a day or more (add the appropriate removed amount of epsoms to any new water). It's not just the nitrates and ammonia levels that cause problems. There's lots of other yucky stuff dissolved in the water from their pee and poo apart from just ammonia!
Also, you don't need to needle-aspirate your fish's airsac because it's not an airsac problem. If it was the airsac full of too much gas it wouldn't make the fish flip, but rather it would still stay normally upright and just bob to the surface like a buoy. This is what happened to my fish, which is why I tried the aspiration needle trick, which worked in a limited way.
But your fish is flipping, not upright, which means the gas buildup is in her belly. There's literally enough gas there to not only overcome the fish's air-sac balance and flip her, but also float her to the surface as well. Aspirating her airsac will just make her float a little lower (if at all), but she'd stll stay flipped.
The gas comes from the waste of bacteria, so everyone's suggestion of using the antibiotic food is the best one. Get rid of the cause first and foremost, which is the bacteria. (I only wish we had that stuff here in Australia!). But keep it up diligently for the recommended full 7 days at least. You should see the flipping and floating easing in intensity and she should start being able to upright herself on her own, even if it's with great difficulty. Take that as a good sign!
Does her belly feel mushy and soft (compared to the rest of her)? This means the infection has spread from her intestines to her muscles and fat deposits so the treatment should be carried on for longer to make sure you get those extra bacteria too.
But don't worry if it looks like it's not working though. Just keep up with the full week's worth anyway. You need to be sure you've zapped as much of the bacteria in her tummy as possible. And even though you may have zapped the bacteria, the gas may still be there and she's still flipping/floating.
If she hasn't uprighted herself by the end of the antibiotic treatment, then you can move on to an epsom salt treatment (1 teaspoon per 20 litres for 5-7 days) to eradicate the gas and finish off any surviving bacteria as well anyway (it's an osmosis thing, they laxative to death literally dying of dehydration in water, I think). Don't feed during the epsom treatment. No point as it's a laxative anyway!
Okay, well what you *should* be seeing after all this is a normal swimming fish again *if* it's just a bacterial infection. Other things can cause it which are incurable, or the damage may be permanent depending on how long it's been left untreated. It's all based on assuming it's a still-current bacterial intestinal infection, so I don't want to get your hopes up and expect a 100% guaranteed cure, which it isn't, if it's not, if you know what I mean! In fact, in 6 months of visiting goldfish forums, I've seen very few success stories with fixing a flipped fish permanently.
Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps!
PS. Don't use other medications while usig the antibiotic food. Also, I wouldn't bother with the Pimafix. That's just some wierd tree sap stuff or something. Not pleasant to the fish at all by some reports unless it's added to Melafix to sooth the stinging it causes. Melafix is also a tree sap, but it's tea-tree oil, so I suppose it's okay. But they aren't 'medicines'.
PPS. Try and keep your water as clean as possible for the duration of treatment. 25% water change a day or more (add the appropriate removed amount of epsoms to any new water). It's not just the nitrates and ammonia levels that cause problems. There's lots of other yucky stuff dissolved in the water from their pee and poo apart from just ammonia!
Thanks, aw! Very informative
Gee, listen to me rabbitting on there - I just re-read my post, and it almost sounds like I actually know what I'm talking about! I'm scaring myself!
Of course, I should stress that everything I say about how the antibiotic food should work is all gleaned from US goldie owners. As I mentioned, we don't have that cool kind of stuff here! I wish we did... my newly acquired fish disease book tells me the way we have to do it here by adding the antibiotics to the water instead is actually the most inefficient way, and pretty useless because fish don't drink...
But they do eat! So adding the meds to the food is a good way of giving it to them, which is why it should work hopefully.
Really, only my conclusions about needing to aspirate airsacs and the effectiveness of epsom salts are from my own direct experience. And I can definitely say both work, but only in specific circumstances (eg I know epsoms work on flipped/sinkers, but I haven't had the opportunity to prove it on a flipped/floater).
Of course, I should stress that everything I say about how the antibiotic food should work is all gleaned from US goldie owners. As I mentioned, we don't have that cool kind of stuff here! I wish we did... my newly acquired fish disease book tells me the way we have to do it here by adding the antibiotics to the water instead is actually the most inefficient way, and pretty useless because fish don't drink...
But they do eat! So adding the meds to the food is a good way of giving it to them, which is why it should work hopefully.
Really, only my conclusions about needing to aspirate airsacs and the effectiveness of epsom salts are from my own direct experience. And I can definitely say both work, but only in specific circumstances (eg I know epsoms work on flipped/sinkers, but I haven't had the opportunity to prove it on a flipped/floater).
Thanks so much for the great info Awrieger. I am releived that I do not have to attempt to aspitate air from her airsac as I was not too thrilled at this prospect. I was of course willing to tryer as a last resort. I will give her the Medi-gold food and hope for the best.
As for the salts, are the Epsom salts those that you purchase at t regualr drug store or is this a product I can find at a pet store? If this is a petstore product I am wondering if it is marketed under a certain name, as I do not recall seeing it in my local pet store. I guess your band names might be different that the brands we have here? Also, as I do 25% water changes should I just replace with my fish safe Culligan water or should I add Epsom salts to the water that I replace? Also, is it OK to have a mix of Epsom and sodium chloride?
Also I wanted to let you know that water is very clean as her tank has only been set up for a few weeks now and she does her once a day feeding in a seperate container. All water parameters are "0" except pH of 8.2. No visible algae, dirt, debris, or poop.
I have not felt her stomach yet, will do so when I take her out to feed her this evening. Do you reccomend feeding once or twice a day? I have cut back from twice to once as fasting seems to be a popular treatment for floating fish problems so I figured that eating once a day is closer to fasting than twice a day. I do not know if this logic is even reasonable.
As for the salts, are the Epsom salts those that you purchase at t regualr drug store or is this a product I can find at a pet store? If this is a petstore product I am wondering if it is marketed under a certain name, as I do not recall seeing it in my local pet store. I guess your band names might be different that the brands we have here? Also, as I do 25% water changes should I just replace with my fish safe Culligan water or should I add Epsom salts to the water that I replace? Also, is it OK to have a mix of Epsom and sodium chloride?
Also I wanted to let you know that water is very clean as her tank has only been set up for a few weeks now and she does her once a day feeding in a seperate container. All water parameters are "0" except pH of 8.2. No visible algae, dirt, debris, or poop.
I have not felt her stomach yet, will do so when I take her out to feed her this evening. Do you reccomend feeding once or twice a day? I have cut back from twice to once as fasting seems to be a popular treatment for floating fish problems so I figured that eating once a day is closer to fasting than twice a day. I do not know if this logic is even reasonable.
Hi Beth, I'm not sure at all what Culligan water is. Your first post says you get it from the grocery store. Does that mean it's bottled distilled water?
Don't ever use distilled water for fish as it has had all the essential trace minerals and electrolytes removed which are necessary for a fish's healthy osmoregulation. Fish need to osmoregulate! (I just love that word
. Unless you add the necessary minerals yourself with a commercial 'goldfish mineral mix', which would make it okay to use.
Epsom salts can be bought at any chemist shop. Doesn't matter what brand as it's all usually pure MgSO4 crystals. You can even buy it from a plant nursey as Magnesium Sulphate, but it's all still the same stuff. But don't worry about using epsoms until after you're done with the antibiotics first. If the meds work, you won't need the epsoms! If you do use it, dose for the whole tank from the outset. Then for the water changes as appropriate.
Oh, and when or if you do use epsoms, remove all salt. No salt at all. Don't do both at the same time. In fact, I'd remove all salt now by not adding any to your water changes. You don't need salt. Salt is for external infections, parasites, fungus etc. You don't have any of that, do you?
Okay, now to answer your question about something I have no direct experience with but will give my opinion anyway!
I myself wouldn't worry about fasting while using the med foods. Fasting is really just to address the symptom. The less food the bacteria has, the less gas they produce, which is supposed to make the fish float less. Pretty logical. But it doesn't actually address the cause which is the bacteria themselves. So don't get sidetracked by trying to fix the symptom as most people do. Focus on zapping the bacteria, even if it makes her float more! The food you're feeding has the bacteria-zapper in it, so the more food the bacteria are consuming, the more gas they produce, but remember also the more antibiotic they're consuming!
So I would assume the idea is to get as much antibiotics into her as possible to kill as many bacteria as possible as quickly and efficiently as possible so I'd feed her lots. 4, 5, 6 times a day. Every hour! But I don't know what the instructions say, so defer to them just to be sure you don't overdose.
As I've mentioned, I have no personal experience with medicated food, so please feel free to get a second opinion from someone who has. I'm just basically going on logic.
PS. I always suspect the bacteria inside a sick fish comes out in their poop etc so there's lots of it free-floating about in the tank (unless you have a UV steriliser to zap it), just waiting to go back in again at the first opportunity and undo all your good work! Water changes help reduce those as well. Just think of water changes as changing a patient's bedsheets for clean ones every day, even if they're already clean.
Don't ever use distilled water for fish as it has had all the essential trace minerals and electrolytes removed which are necessary for a fish's healthy osmoregulation. Fish need to osmoregulate! (I just love that word
. Unless you add the necessary minerals yourself with a commercial 'goldfish mineral mix', which would make it okay to use.Epsom salts can be bought at any chemist shop. Doesn't matter what brand as it's all usually pure MgSO4 crystals. You can even buy it from a plant nursey as Magnesium Sulphate, but it's all still the same stuff. But don't worry about using epsoms until after you're done with the antibiotics first. If the meds work, you won't need the epsoms! If you do use it, dose for the whole tank from the outset. Then for the water changes as appropriate.
Oh, and when or if you do use epsoms, remove all salt. No salt at all. Don't do both at the same time. In fact, I'd remove all salt now by not adding any to your water changes. You don't need salt. Salt is for external infections, parasites, fungus etc. You don't have any of that, do you?
Okay, now to answer your question about something I have no direct experience with but will give my opinion anyway!
I myself wouldn't worry about fasting while using the med foods. Fasting is really just to address the symptom. The less food the bacteria has, the less gas they produce, which is supposed to make the fish float less. Pretty logical. But it doesn't actually address the cause which is the bacteria themselves. So don't get sidetracked by trying to fix the symptom as most people do. Focus on zapping the bacteria, even if it makes her float more! The food you're feeding has the bacteria-zapper in it, so the more food the bacteria are consuming, the more gas they produce, but remember also the more antibiotic they're consuming!
So I would assume the idea is to get as much antibiotics into her as possible to kill as many bacteria as possible as quickly and efficiently as possible so I'd feed her lots. 4, 5, 6 times a day. Every hour!
But I don't know what the instructions say, so defer to them just to be sure you don't overdose.As I've mentioned, I have no personal experience with medicated food, so please feel free to get a second opinion from someone who has. I'm just basically going on logic.
PS. I always suspect the bacteria inside a sick fish comes out in their poop etc so there's lots of it free-floating about in the tank (unless you have a UV steriliser to zap it), just waiting to go back in again at the first opportunity and undo all your good work! Water changes help reduce those as well. Just think of water changes as changing a patient's bedsheets for clean ones every day, even if they're already clean.
Good advice from aw
Whenever I have used medicated food, I feed every few hours, just a few pellets each time. As aw suggested, it is best to have a continuous supply of the antibiotic in their bloodstream. I have also fed Medigold for an extended period without problem. I have fed for around three weeks.
Whenever I have used medicated food, I feed every few hours, just a few pellets each time. As aw suggested, it is best to have a continuous supply of the antibiotic in their bloodstream. I have also fed Medigold for an extended period without problem. I have fed for around three weeks.
Continuous antibiotic makes sense. I will try to feed her more often though this is somewhat difficult as I work full time. Twice a day will probably have to do. She really is not very big and I can usually only get her to eat and retain 3 soaked pellets of this antibiotic food. She usually spits out any more than the three. Also, her abdomen feels firm more than it feels soft. There really has been no change in her floating condition though the red spot of her side disappeared quickly with the no overhead light and stress coat treatments.
How's the fishy doing? The spitting food out means your baby has swollen gills. Toothy knows lots about the gills (well he knows lots period about fish hehe). I would try feeding maybe something like frozen brine shrimp. Thats soft really soft I think. Or maybe some cooked peas without the shell and squesshed and put in really small pieces. The trick I think is trying to find a food we can sneek past the gills. Fish have teeth, in the inside by the gills if I think right. Cuz I remember seeing my fish chewing after feeding. I wouldn't try the needle though. If you do as such, that is also can be dangerous. It can lead to bacteria and parasites etc. Infection is at greater risk when skin is punctered. I wouldn't let the fish vet give an antibiotic my fish needed by the needle, even though that is what they recommended. I got the pill form so I could treat with the powder of the pill on the food. I'm glad the red spot went away. What are your water params now?
Beth, anything new on your fish? How is it going?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.