im really upset with my local petsmart and telling me that i was fine with putting my goldfish in a tank without cycling. i have read so much on these fish in the past week and its making me hate myself more every minute.

my lil oranda is having a hard time in the uncycled water, its only been going for a week and a half and its a 29gal tank with a 30gal bio-wheel -.- i know now thats not enough and i really dunno what to do. i dun wanna change my filter cus i think that would restart the cycling process? i went and had my water tested and again i didnt get the exact numbers from the girl but my ammonia and akalinity were as bad as the test could render. I put some ammo-lock in it to reduce the ammonia but my lil guy is still all clamped up. urg really worried

Do Major water changes every day, and syphon out the poop every day. And get a test kit so you can see your own progress! With the water changes you may have to do more then one huge one a day in order to keep the ammonia down. This is why you need a test kit, so you can see this.

Was that a typo, when you said you have a 30 gallon filter? I'm no expert. In fact, I come here to get advice, not give it, but you should have a 300 gallon per hour filter there, not 30. I don't know if they even make 30s. I bought a 100 gph biowheel and that was the smallest I could find for my 10 gallon tank.

How often did you change the water? I am cycling my tank with a fish in it. Set the tank up on a Saturday, bought the fish on a Sunday. That was a month ago, and it's just now starting to cycle. But in the mean time, with no bacteria to help me along, changing 2 gallons a day (20%) has kept ammonia down to under 1 ppm for the vast majority of the time. No problems with the fish.

Buy a kit, test your own water, make sure you have a 300 gph filter, and change the water until you get the ammonia down to below 1 ppm. Then change 6 gallons a day every day.

I am afraid with ammonia that high your fish may already have had such a high dose that he will have long term problems. I heard that once ammonia is that high, you have oxygen problems, and even if it comes down to zero, the damage to the fish is already done and permanent. I'm not trying to scare you but to make sure you do everything in your power to get that water down to healthy levels.

To other more knowledgeable people in the forum: At this point, with levels that high, would it be advisable to dump all the water, forget the little bit of cycling that's taken place, and start over with fresh water?

Hi and welcome to Kokos!

First of all, do a large water change (you don't need to completely start over)--take out about 50% of the water and replace it with temperature matched water with a water conditioner in it to neutralize the chlorine.

If you can find a product called BioSpira by Marineland--buy some--it cycles tanks very fast. It is beneficial bacteria. The cost is about $10 for an once and that is enough for a 10--30 gallon tank.

If you can't get it, do water changes every day--about 25%. Here is info on new tank cycling---> Cycle of the Tank

About Fab's comment on your filter--there is some confusion--I think you meant that it is a filter for a 30 gallon tank. And that is fine. Bio wheels are great, I have 2 of them.

The reason for my question was that she said she had a 29 gallon tank and a 30 gallon filter but that she thought that it wasn't enough. Maybe she could clarify what she means by a "30 gallon filter".

I agree on the partial water changes. Keep them up and be sure to dechlorinate and match the temperature of the change water to the tank water within a couple of degrees. Go easy on vacuuming, just run it over the surface to suck up poop.

and cut back on feeding... more food = more ammonia.

ditto on the needing water tests. The AP master test kit is good.
The ammolock will mess with your ammonia readings.
Can you post back specific numbers for your water tests?

Do you see anything on your goldie other than the clamped fins? How's he acting? Is he eating?

ah its a penguin 150, 30gal filter thinger
hrm chubbs is a pretty active lil guy during feeding and then he puts up his top fin sometimes but after feeding time settles down he finds a spot and just floats there looking a lil upset. my other two are a bit smaller than him and have their lil dorsels flared up constantly and always moving around bugging each other

ill change the water now and head back to the petstore to pick up a test. ty for the advice so far.

i think i might buy the biowheel penguin 350 and stick the wheel that i have in mine in that one... do you think that would work?

Nope, I believe the wheels are bigger. But, right now most of the bacteria are probably in the gravel, and you need the 10x filtration. So, a 350 would be a good thing to have, unless you already have nitrites. If you test 0.5 or less for nitrites, it's almost certain you should get the 350.

kay got the test kit thingy
ammonia: 1.0
nitrate: 0
nitrite: 0
ph lvl: ? i dunno its a really pink color, at first i thought it was the nitrate one but its not
29gal tank with with a 150 penguin
i use aquasafe to decholrinate and i used ammo lock yesterday to take some of the ammonia out. 3 fish, did a 50% water change earlier
yar well i get the penguin 350 i guess ill hook that up soon

the ppls at the petstore didnt have the biospira so i got something called "cyle" and some ammo chips that the guy suggested. they seem like they might help but i didnt wanna not get it if its a good thing, i can always return it. i wont use it unless you guys say its okay.
send me more advice!

augh the pigs begging me for food *resist*

You shouldn't use ammo-lock or the ammo chips. You should keep the ammonia down by doing partial water changes.

Prime is a great dechlorinator, it can help when ammonia and nitrite get high.

You should get a better filter fast. The goldfish need much more filtration than that. I have a penguin 150 on one of my 10 gallon tanks!

You should really try to read the pH test better. Did you get drop tests or the test strips?

Cycle is ok to start with. I've used it with good results. Heck, I'm using it currently. I suggest adding the dosage it says for when you're setting it up. More can't hurt, it's impossible to overdose. Just be warned that it will probably cloud the water for a few days.

EDIT: If you wanted, and you have the room, you could run both the 350 and 150 on the tank at once. If not, I suggest you don't add cycle till you get the new filter, just do water changes to keep the ammonia down. I know Data guru has a chart that says how much ammonia is toxic at certain pH and temps, that could help you a bit.

i meant to say that i did indeed get one today and im watching my fish wiggle their fishy bums through the current. sure is purdy
so is my ammonia still too high and should i do a water change now? then put the cycle stuff in...

When cycling you want to keep the ammonia level at 1.0 or below. I would make sure to do the water changes promptly because that level can shoot up without much warning. I cycled all of my tanks with fish in them & everyone was fine. You really just have to stay on top of the water changes. (FOr me sometimes that meant 2x's day at some points)

Good Luck!

Jenn

(PS - you can add the cycle if you want or wait until you get the extra filtration - I would just watch the water params very closely.)

How toxic ammonia is depends on your pH and water temperature.
for instance if your pH is 8 ammonia is very close to being toxic at .5ppm. If you pH is 7, ammonia could get up to 4ppm before I'd start scurrying to do a partial water change, cuz ammonia is less toxic at lower pH. Here's a page on it.
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
Please do try your pH test again. did you get strips or drop tests?

Ammolock is supposed to do a good job detoxifying ammonia... however it messes up ammonia test readings, so you really don't know your ammonia levels. Either Prime or Amquel can be used to help detoxify ammoina and if you have the two bottle ammonia test, you'll get accurate reading as to how much ammonia is present.

I agree with Phreno on the ammo chips. they suck up the ammonia so it's not there for the biofilter bugs to eat. and if you salt the tank, they'll release the ammonia back into the water.

So do you see any other symptoms in your bottom sitter? How's his poop look?

arg sry i didnt repost sooner, had to go pick up my bf at the airport

i did a 2nd waterchange and put the cyle in and when i got back chubbs was all over and amazingly with his dorsel up *3*
i really dunno why the water wasnt visibly affecting the other two fish. meby chubbs is more sensitive.

he is a pig at feeding time and he had short green poop from the peas... which i read is good poop lol..

should i keep doing these water changes everyday? my ammonia just tested at .50
everything else is nitrate:0 nitrite:0
ph is still that pink color. tap here is 7.8 usually from what my horticulture teacher said.

thank you all so much for the help.

It sounds like you are using the strip test? (I use my strip test for quick checks for everything but pH - I use the bottle tests if the strip is at all out of whack). I have difficulty seeing the difference on my strip tests in pH. THat's why I switched to bottled pH tests always. (If you're already using a bottled test - nevermind. It's just that all of the bottled tests around me are blue & the strips turn pink )

You most likely will need to do some fairly frequent water changes (daily - every otherday? Difficult to tell without the testing. WHen I was cycling I was changing water everyday.)

THis will be especially important if you have an ammonia sensitive fish like it sounds like you do!

Good Luck!

Jenn

bless my little heart i needa work out more to move all this water to and fro lol

ill try to get the ph test next time i head off campus to the pet store.

Your ammonia was 1 ppm? That's not good, but it's also not horrible. When you originally said it was off the chart, I had some vision of an ammonia level in the double digits (since my simple test kit goes up to 8 ppm). I'm relieved it's not as bad as I thought. That's why I originally thought of a complete tank water change. I was imagining the water was 1% ammonia or something! What a relief.