Ok, so my tank is cycling still, and the nitrItes are up at 3ppm, maybe higher. I've salted the tank to .2 and I'm monitoring everything. I still feel worried though, because I know nitrites are deadly. Are the fish fine, as long as there is salt? Or should I do a 50% water change? Also, how long will it take for the nitrites to go down?

I forgot to ask, can high nitrites cause any permanent damage?

Yea, I hear ya. I'd be antsy about letting nitrIte stay that high.

There are various recommendations out there on salt levels.
From: http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm
"For nitrite poisoning salt can impart protection to the fishes. This happens only if the salt content is such that the chloride ion’s concentration is about 30 times that of the nitrite ion concentration in the water. Typically, nitrite becomes toxic at about 0.1 mg/L. This means that the chloride ion concentration would have to be at least 3.0 mg/L. This concentration translates into one of about 5.0 mg/L of salt (NaCl is 60.66% chloride, Cl-); this is equivalent to 18.7 mg/gallon. A teaspoon of table salt is about 5.5 grams (or 5,500 mg); a teaspoon of table salt would be sufficient to protect fishes living in approximately 294 gallons of water! "

Skeptical aquarist http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml
says"
"How much salt should you be adding to counteract nitrite? It is the chloride ion of salt that is effective, not the sodium ion. In order to be effective, the chloride-to-nitrite ratio should be five to one. So if nitrite tests at 1 ppm, you should add enough salt (as a temporary measure) to give a chloride level of 5 ppm. This corresponds to about 8.5 ppm of NaCl (table salt); very little--— a fifteenth of a teaspoon or just a pinch-- in ten gallons. In fact, your water quite likely already carries this much salt, without any extra dosing at all; at any rate, your normal partial water changes will dilute out additional salt after the crisis has passed."

My understanding is that nitrIte binds up red blood cells and keeps them from being able to carry oxygen. They stay bound from what I've read and new red blood cells replace them. Methylene blue can be used to unbind them.

I think it takes two or three weeks for the nitrIte eaters to totally catch up. I'd expect to see it start coming down in a week or so.

Really? That long? Alright. Well, I'll keep putting in more of the bacterial additive I have, hopefully it will start to go down...

Will adding prime help? I mean, will it be less toxic, but still usable by the same bacteria? Also, is the only damage done by high nitrite reversable with methylene blue?

And is 0.2 salt alright for now?

So how are they acting?
Are their gills nice and red?

I think .2% salt is fine. It's overkill actually from the sources I posted yesterday, but it can't hurt. I don't think prime is needed on top of the salt. but it couldn't hurt to use prime for your partial water changes.

What's your pH running?

The only damage I remember reading about nitrIte is the red blood cell thing.

I too turned to Prime with the salt (I was at .1%)when I was cycling originally. I couldn't get my levels to come down below 2.0ppm no matter what I did. I was doing 2 changes per day (one in AM & one in PM). I didn't use the methalyene blue.

I can't remember how long it lasted (felt like forever) but my fishies were OK-just keep an eye on yours.

Good Luck!



PS - DataGuru - you rock with your science! I always mean to tell you this & by the time I have time to post I forget!

They're acting much better, they hardly go up to the surface now, except when I open the top.

Their gills are like a pinky-red. You mean the inside right? Because the outside is just white.... I'm guessing that's the gill cover? I don't know anatomy...

I haven't checked the pH recently, should I? That's probably a stupid question....

Oh, and I calculated it, with my math skills, and found out that with the 3 tupperware containers I use to change water, I can do a 10% change in about 2 mins. So, everyday I've been changing 10% of the water, because of the bloom. The green-ness is going away though... but it's still cloudy.

Alright. I think I'm just about covered.

That sounds good. Yes, the inside is the gills. that's where the gas transfer happens with nitrIte poisoning they'll turn brown. I'd only use methylene blue in an emergency if the gills were turning brown and the fish were gasping, etc. It's a serious chemical like the ones used to treat parasites.

One thing you can do is cut down on feeding and feed more veggies and less protein till the tank's cycled. less food results in less ammoina. lower protein foods result in less ammonia.

Your pH was 7.2, so yea, I'd keep an eye on it. I'd probably even raise it a bit now that you're past the ammonia stage cuz unlike ammonia, nitrIte is less toxic at higher pH. plus as your biofilter converts ammonia to nitrAte it uses KH (bicarbonates) and releases acids which will use up your KH and result in pH getting acidic over time. Your partial water changes should help keep that from happening.

Back before I added crushed oyster shell to maintain KH, I'd routinely buffer my goldie tank up to KH of 120 which would keep pH up in the high 7's between partial water changes.

Do you have a KH test?

Nope, no kH test. No baking soda either I think, unless I can find some. I have no money right now unfortunately, so all I can do is test the pH.

Your partial water changes should maintain pH just fine.

Yeah, it's at 7.1 now, but later tonight i'm gonna do another 10% change. The water is horribly cloudy.


By the way the pH 2 weeks ago was 7.2, so do you think I should add some baking soda or something?

I wouldn't for that small of a change. Once you start using chemicals to keep that at a certain level, it becomes very tedious to maintain a solid pH. (Not to say it can't be done but it will require more work & that really is a very small change)

If the water is cloudy, you may need more than a 10% change. The more water you change out the longer the cycle takes but it's easier on the fish (that being said I still wouldn't change out more than 50% at a go either!)

Good Luck!

It's not critical that you do it now, but as the goldies grow, you're probably going to need to buffer to keep pH from slipping down during the week. If you're not seeing ammonia now it'd be safe to take it up.

You know... it's interesting. Now that I think about it, I didn't have a bacterial bloom in any of the natural planted tanks I've set up (topsoil substrate covered by small gravel... lots o plants and nothing but a powerhead circulating water). but had blooms in both the tanks setup the usual way.

So do you think the Cycle is helping?

I think the Cycle has done all it can, the bacteria just need time to multiply and remove the nitrite. I haven't had any ammonia for almost a whole week now though, so....

Alright, once it's cycled, I'll work on buffering it and getting some crushed oyster shells. By the way, do they have to be oyster specifically?

I think the bacteria go crazy because of all the phosphorus, and the plants use it too, so there is more competition, and the plants win. I think.

You may not need to buffer it unless I missed something in the post where you talk about it swinging around or you already know your tap water has issues & the pH will swing when you're no longer doing daily water changes.

My pH runs steadily between 7.2 & 7.4 & my fish are fine with it. I think that it is more important for it to be satble than for it to be a certain number (unless it is very high or very low).

Just my 2 cents!

Depends on the bioload in the tank. With a heavy bioload more KH gets eaten up and pH may not stay stable between partial water changes.

Dunno. any crushed shells should do. I found oyster shells at the feed store for $6 for 50 pounds. cheaper than I could find crushed coral.

Uhh... what's a "feed store"? lol...

A store where you buy feed for animals... e.g. cows, pigs, sheep, shickens, dogs, cats, etc.