Ok, Here is my senario....
30 gallon tank set up for over three months now. Took a long time to cycle due to problem with the pH levels not rising. I tried crushed coral, pH up and baking soda. After a while, a good bacteria bloom started and settled and my tank params normalized. I waited about 1 more week and did a water change trying not to disturb the bacteria build up in the gravel.
The tank became very cloudy. So cloudy that you could not see the back of the tank. The nitrates and nitrites where at 0 but my ammonia was at 4.0
My fish was not stressed out at this time and was acting normal so I decided that maybe this could be the start of new tank syndrome, so I wanted to give it a little longer to see if it would fix it's self (while keeping a very close eye on my fish) 1 week later the tank was still cloudy but by this time the ammonia was up to 6.0
I then thought that maybe I had too much bacteria so I decided to remove the bag of existing rocks from an established tank that I had placed in there to help with the initial cycling process. Once I removed the rocks, the cloudiness started going away. As of right now the tank is crystal clear but for the past 2 weeks now the ammonia levels are above 8.0
My fish is still not stressed out. She is not gasping for air or laying on the bottom but I don't want her to get used to this kind of water condition. I have tried removing 25-50% of the water daily and this has not helped the ammonia levels at all and I have also tried prime to get rid of the ammonia.
Please can some one offer some kind of explanation or suggestion as to what is going on in my tank. This is my only fish right now and I love my Oranda very much!
Thank you! Any help is appreciated!
Full Version: Serious Ammonia Problem!
^ i had the same problem, ammonia was high and PH didnt rise
wut kinda filter do u have?
how often do u clean it and how
how often do u do water changes?
wut kinda filter do u have?
how often do u clean it and how
how often do u do water changes?
It also could be your test kit?
It dosnt sound like how they would be with SUCH high amonia levels.
Hmm...
It dosnt sound like how they would be with SUCH high amonia levels.
Hmm...
I am going to assume that you did, at one time, experience the entire nitrogen cycle - having ammonia, then nitrite reading and finally nitrate readings, correct?
Is this tank heavily planted with real plants? If not, you should be seeing nitrate in the tank if the tank is cycling. Fish=ammonia=nitrite=nitrate. The nitrate should be there. THe only thing that would remove it to the degree that you get a reading of zero is if there are a huge number of healthy plants in there processing the nitrates.
As far as ammonia - when you do a water change you should see a readable drop in the ppm of ammonia in your test.
For example if you have 8ppm ammonia and do a 50% water change you should see around 4 ppm ammonia. Do you get any change in readings at all from before a change and after a change?
The reason I ask is, as Whirlwind has asked, I wonder if your test kits are not giving you accurate readings. An ammonia level of above 4ppm for any length of time would not only produce an extemely sick fish, but I doubt that one would survive very long at much about 6ppm. I will never say never, for goldfish have been known to survive in the most horrendous of situations, but it seems highly implausable that you could truly have 8ppm ammonia in a tank and not see something in the goldie.
I would suggest doing several things:
1. test your tap water (again). It can contain ammonia - and will change in amounts from month to month. (although 8ppm is WAAAAAY out of line!)
2. Test your water, then do a 50% water change. Test again. Does the ammonia drop at all?
3. Examine all your filter cartridges and additives that you are using for the tank. Do any of them contain zeolite? Are you using a binder of any nature like AmQuel or such? Zeolite will bind ammonia - but release it dramatically when exposed to salt - that is how it is "recharged". Zeolite is a tough thing to use in a tank, unless you know exactly what you want it to do and how - if there is zeolite there and you are not aware of it, it can cause all kinds of problems. Similarly, Amquel and the like can bind ammonia - rendering it non-toxic to the fish, but if you have a test kit that is not designed to be used with Amquel and the like, it will read through - telling you the reading for total ammonia in the tank, not free ammonia in the tank.
4. Think carefully - did you ever have any nitrates? If so, did they go away when the ammonia started building?
It may be that your cycle has crashed again. I am hoping it means that your test kit is compromised in some fashion, however.....
Is this tank heavily planted with real plants? If not, you should be seeing nitrate in the tank if the tank is cycling. Fish=ammonia=nitrite=nitrate. The nitrate should be there. THe only thing that would remove it to the degree that you get a reading of zero is if there are a huge number of healthy plants in there processing the nitrates.
As far as ammonia - when you do a water change you should see a readable drop in the ppm of ammonia in your test.
For example if you have 8ppm ammonia and do a 50% water change you should see around 4 ppm ammonia. Do you get any change in readings at all from before a change and after a change?
The reason I ask is, as Whirlwind has asked, I wonder if your test kits are not giving you accurate readings. An ammonia level of above 4ppm for any length of time would not only produce an extemely sick fish, but I doubt that one would survive very long at much about 6ppm. I will never say never, for goldfish have been known to survive in the most horrendous of situations, but it seems highly implausable that you could truly have 8ppm ammonia in a tank and not see something in the goldie.
I would suggest doing several things:
1. test your tap water (again). It can contain ammonia - and will change in amounts from month to month. (although 8ppm is WAAAAAY out of line!)
2. Test your water, then do a 50% water change. Test again. Does the ammonia drop at all?
3. Examine all your filter cartridges and additives that you are using for the tank. Do any of them contain zeolite? Are you using a binder of any nature like AmQuel or such? Zeolite will bind ammonia - but release it dramatically when exposed to salt - that is how it is "recharged". Zeolite is a tough thing to use in a tank, unless you know exactly what you want it to do and how - if there is zeolite there and you are not aware of it, it can cause all kinds of problems. Similarly, Amquel and the like can bind ammonia - rendering it non-toxic to the fish, but if you have a test kit that is not designed to be used with Amquel and the like, it will read through - telling you the reading for total ammonia in the tank, not free ammonia in the tank.
4. Think carefully - did you ever have any nitrates? If so, did they go away when the ammonia started building?
It may be that your cycle has crashed again. I am hoping it means that your test kit is compromised in some fashion, however.....
What's your pH and water temp?
Are you using an ammonia binder?
What ammonia test are you using?
Are you using an ammonia binder?
What ammonia test are you using?
ok, I have the drop test kit for the tank params. I fill a little vile of tank water and add 8 drops of ammonia 1 bottle then 8 more drops of the ammonia 2 bottle and wait 5 minutes for the color to develope. These test are pretty accurate. I did have nitrates and nitrites when the tank was going through it's initial cycle. They are at zero now but I do have a nitra-zorb pouch in the filter that keeps the nitrates and nitrites maintained for about 3 months at a time then I can recharge it and place it back in the media basket in the filter. This could be the reason that I am not having any changes in those readings. as far as what kind of filter I have, I have a pinguin dual bio wheel filter. I have a bacteria sponge and a sack of crushed coral in one media basket and the nitra-zorb pouch in the other. I have a sack of rock in the bottom of the tank that was I took from an exsisting tank to help with the initial cycle.
I have tried ammo-lock to reduce the amount of the toxic form of ammonia that was in the water. This might be the reason that it is not effecting my fish. I don't know what zeolite is though, so you might need to explain that to me! ( is it just a a product like ammo-lock?)
When I do a water change, my ammonia level does reduce, but within 24 hours, it is back up again. Like I said, the tank now is really clear but the ammonia level is still really high. My oranda was still very active over the weekend but I am worried about long term effects that this will have on her if this stays this way.
The temperature in the tank is at 78 right now and the pH has dropped to 6.2
I can't get that regulated. My tap water at home has a very low buffering system to begin with! The crushed coral, backing soda, and pH uppers do not seem to work really well for my tap water system.
As far as what is in the tank with my one fish is plastic plant and a hollow ornament filled with bubble stones so that the water does not become stagnent. That is it!
I change the water about every two weeks and I do a good vaccum about once a month. I clean the cartridges in tank water about every month and a half. lately though, I have been doing a 25% water change daily to put fresh water back in the tank and try to remove the high ammonia levels. I remove it when I get home in the afternoon from work and check the ammonia levels when I'm done, I see a drop but when I get home the next afternoon and check it again, it has climmed right back up to where it was before, so I remove more and start the process over. I'm stummped. I can't seem to get rid of the ammonia levels in the tank.
I hope that I have answered everyones questions, If there are anymore please let me know and thanks for your help do far!
I have tried ammo-lock to reduce the amount of the toxic form of ammonia that was in the water. This might be the reason that it is not effecting my fish. I don't know what zeolite is though, so you might need to explain that to me! ( is it just a a product like ammo-lock?)
When I do a water change, my ammonia level does reduce, but within 24 hours, it is back up again. Like I said, the tank now is really clear but the ammonia level is still really high. My oranda was still very active over the weekend but I am worried about long term effects that this will have on her if this stays this way.
The temperature in the tank is at 78 right now and the pH has dropped to 6.2
I can't get that regulated. My tap water at home has a very low buffering system to begin with! The crushed coral, backing soda, and pH uppers do not seem to work really well for my tap water system.
As far as what is in the tank with my one fish is plastic plant and a hollow ornament filled with bubble stones so that the water does not become stagnent. That is it!
I change the water about every two weeks and I do a good vaccum about once a month. I clean the cartridges in tank water about every month and a half. lately though, I have been doing a 25% water change daily to put fresh water back in the tank and try to remove the high ammonia levels. I remove it when I get home in the afternoon from work and check the ammonia levels when I'm done, I see a drop but when I get home the next afternoon and check it again, it has climmed right back up to where it was before, so I remove more and start the process over. I'm stummped. I can't seem to get rid of the ammonia levels in the tank.
I hope that I have answered everyones questions, If there are anymore please let me know and thanks for your help do far!
Unless your pH went below 6 and your biofilter bacteria got unhappy, it's most likely the ammolock messing with your ammonia test readings. I'd stop adding the ammolock.
So how much crushed coral do you have in the filter?
It'd be good to add more if you can fit it.
Baking soda won't last indefinitely. gotta keep adding it if your tap water isn't well buffered cuz acids are continually being produced in the tank.
Any idea the pH. KH and GH of your tap water?
How many fish and how big are they?
I'd add 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda. predissolve in tank water then add to a high flow area. give it time to disperse well and then check your pH. I'd do that daily along with partial water changes with no ammolock till pH is up to around 7. It'll take a while to get the ammolock out of the water. After we're sure your ammonia isn't high, I'd recommend taking pH up into the mid to high 7s using baking soda and also adding more crushed coral to the filter.
So how much crushed coral do you have in the filter?
It'd be good to add more if you can fit it.
Baking soda won't last indefinitely. gotta keep adding it if your tap water isn't well buffered cuz acids are continually being produced in the tank.
Any idea the pH. KH and GH of your tap water?
How many fish and how big are they?
I'd add 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda. predissolve in tank water then add to a high flow area. give it time to disperse well and then check your pH. I'd do that daily along with partial water changes with no ammolock till pH is up to around 7. It'll take a while to get the ammolock out of the water. After we're sure your ammonia isn't high, I'd recommend taking pH up into the mid to high 7s using baking soda and also adding more crushed coral to the filter.
There's only 1 fish in the tank and she's about 3 inches long. I don't know exactly what the kH and the gH is in the tap water but I know that the tap waters pH is below 6.2
I have 2 cups of crushed coral in the media basket and that's all that will fit in there. I haven't put any of the ammo-lock in the tank in over two weeks now. I figured that there was enough of that already so I left it alone. I can do the baking soda and let you know how that goes.
Thanks
I have 2 cups of crushed coral in the media basket and that's all that will fit in there. I haven't put any of the ammo-lock in the tank in over two weeks now. I figured that there was enough of that already so I left it alone. I can do the baking soda and let you know how that goes.
Thanks
two weeks. hmmm I don't know how long ammolock will stay in the water.
The crushed coral isn't raising your pH cuz your tap water is so acidic and is not well buffered. it's actually lowering pH with each partial water change... apparently faster than the coral can dissolve. That means that after we get pH raised up into the 7s, you'll need to add a baking soda at each partial water change to keep pH from slipping back down.
I'd keep vacuuming and doing partial water changes. maybe 50% a day to try and get any remaining ammolock out of the tank. You're also going to have to buffer with baking soda to get pH up. For your next partial water change, add 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda to the change water. Then after it's had time to disperse test pH again. If it barely budges, add another 1/2 teaspoon. What we want to do, is to add baking soda each day to produce no more than a .4 increase in pH per day. I wouldn't go higher than 7 till we're sure your ammonia really isn't that high.
How bout you report back on how much a 50% partial water change reduces ammonia and how much adding the baking soda raises pH.
You really need to get a KH test.
If indeed ammonia is/was that high, most all of it would be in the less toxic form (ammonium) because your pH is so low, and wouldn't be a problem for the fish. That's why we should be cautious raising pH until we know for sure it's the ammolock giving false readings. See
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
The crushed coral isn't raising your pH cuz your tap water is so acidic and is not well buffered. it's actually lowering pH with each partial water change... apparently faster than the coral can dissolve. That means that after we get pH raised up into the 7s, you'll need to add a baking soda at each partial water change to keep pH from slipping back down.
I'd keep vacuuming and doing partial water changes. maybe 50% a day to try and get any remaining ammolock out of the tank. You're also going to have to buffer with baking soda to get pH up. For your next partial water change, add 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda to the change water. Then after it's had time to disperse test pH again. If it barely budges, add another 1/2 teaspoon. What we want to do, is to add baking soda each day to produce no more than a .4 increase in pH per day. I wouldn't go higher than 7 till we're sure your ammonia really isn't that high.
How bout you report back on how much a 50% partial water change reduces ammonia and how much adding the baking soda raises pH.
You really need to get a KH test.
If indeed ammonia is/was that high, most all of it would be in the less toxic form (ammonium) because your pH is so low, and wouldn't be a problem for the fish. That's why we should be cautious raising pH until we know for sure it's the ammolock giving false readings. See
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.