Hi,
I have a 90 gal. outdoor pond in Naples, FL. We've had the pond since January and had 9 fish in it. 2 Red Caps, 2 Orandas, 2 Black Moors, 1 Goldfish, 2 Placos (sorry about the spelling). We have spent thousands (no, that's not a typo) on this pond trying to get it settled. We have tried soooo many remedies...chemicals, biofilters, barley, you name it, including the lastest purchase, a $200 canopy/gazebo to make sure that these fish don't get a sunburn . No, to keep down the algae.

Anyway, we FINALLY have it the best it's ever been. We are using AMMO/CARB in a sock with 2 chem-pure packets tied over the fountain filter on top of a bio-filter!

Well, it's working great! The nitrites, nitrates, ammonia are all right on the nose! The PH is a little high, but that's Florida well water and I'm told will never be perfect.

My problem is one of my little Red Caps ("Angel Baby") is suddenly really sick. She can't keep herself upright. She's swimming and eating, but every time she slows or stops to eat, she flips completely upside down!!! One pet shop here said to try a salt bath which we did last night, but this morning she's even worse!! This morning, she can't hardly turn herself over. It's like she has air in her butt. Also, she's not as interested in eating at all this morning.

Please help if possible. I don't want to lose this darling little fish!! All the other fish are doing fine, so it's just something with her.

I would be so sincerely grateful for any assistance. Thank you.

I have to leave for an appointment in fifteen minutes...Is there anyone out there that can give me any help before I have to go!!! I pray that I don't come home and fine "Angel Baby" floating on the top!!

Please Help!!

Thank you kindly.

Hi and welcome to the site.

What you are describing is SBD---swim bladder disease. I will let you read up on that as I am headed to work and running short on time myself.
Basically fasting the fish for a couple days and follow with feeding thawed deshelled peas cut up into bite size pieces will help. Peas are a natural laxative for fish.
Also posting the actual numbers to the tests is a good thing, we need that info to help you.
Nitrates that are above 40 can aggravate SBD and cause problems.
Soaking their food can help so that is sinks and swells before the fish eats it.
I know with the info I went into could be explained better, I just wanted to give you some things to research and try before you leave or when you get back.

Have a good day.

Thank you for your attempt in helping me with my little fish...I'm very sorry for not including the specific info on each individual level. I was in a bit of a panic this morning, and since I returned home, the situation seems even more dire. Now, "Angel Baby" in just head down, upside down on the bottom of the pond. If I stir the water around her, she will upright herself, but immediately flips back over. Also, the aggitation of the fountain and bubbler seem to be making her even worse. I wonder if I should shut it off for a bit?

Anyway, here are the levels as close as I can read them:

PH 8.5
Alkalinity 500
Hardness 150
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 25-30
Ammonia 0-.25

If there is anything else that you need, please let me know. I am just sick that I might lose her. How long can they stay this way? With this swim bladder disease, do they recover quickly? Should I separate her from the rest? Can they live in a tub of water by themselves with no bubbler or fountain? I know that these are dumb questions, but I'm at a loss here.

I wish that I would have known about this forum months ago. This is great! We have had so much trouble with this pond. From the very beginning we have fought with outragous PH, ammonia, nitrate and nitrate levels. Our algae problems have been just aweful. The entire pond would grow over with algae within two to three days. You couldn't even tell that there were fish in the pond!!

But, since we changed to this new system (as I explained above), things have been really great. Except now my fish is sick! What causes this swim bladder disease? I have some medicine called "quick cure" by AP (aquarium products). It says that it is for Ick, Gasping, Flicking, Protozoan Parasites, Fluke, Costia, Chiladonella, Trichodina. Would that help her at all?

Well, I better get back out there as I'm afraid that the fountain is beating her to death.

I'll check back here periodically tonight.

I sincerely thank any input from anyone.

Thanks and have a good afternoon.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=12750

This is an article on SBD that you should read. Its very informative and I'm sure you'll find it helpful.

Thank you very much, VxShady. I'll read it right away. Although, it's not looking too good for my "baby" right now. Do you happen to know how many "peas" LauraP meant? Do you feed it one, two, a few? Also, what if she won't eat at all?

I have 17 pets (dogs, fish, birds and squirrels) and my husband says I get way too attached to each one of them. Oh well, that's what the world is all about, right!?!

Anyway, thanks for your kind assistance.

When I have time, I'll try to figure out how to post a picture and I'll show you just how cute "Angel Baby" is.

Thai

Thai, how is she doing tonight?

With the peas it is usually just one pea per fish, depending how big it is.

I would try and get the ammonia and nitrites to 0, these could be making the situation worse. What water source do you use for water changes? Test them to see if they are all 0 or if that is a source of ammonia and nitrites.

SBD can range from the mild "floaties" to full blown can't swim and is upside down and can't right themselves. If you have access to a fish vet they can sometimes help.

Hi LauraP,
Sorry that I did not reply last night. We were outside until very late. She still looks pretty bad today. She can't hold herself upright for more than a few seconds. When I first looked in when I got home today, I thought we had lost her because she was totally upside down and she didn't even appear to be breathing.

I tried the peas (I put in way too many...didn't know), but it didn't matter because she's not eating anything at all.

I don't know quite how it works, but I set up an "album" here under my name and marked it as "public". Can you access that? If so, there are pictures of "Angel Baby", as well as my other fish. I took some photos of her last night so they would show her being sick.

I don't know if that helps at all.

We separated her out from the other fish into a 6-7 gallon pail (actually it's a plastic box that you use for files from Office Depot, so it's more square than a pail or bucket). We hooked a bubbler up to the pump and put it in there with her, and I also added a plastic aquarium plant so she might have something to lean up against.

I'm going to test the water in her pail (which is water from the pond) and also the water we get right out of the hose (which is well water). I'll post what those results are.

I going to try the "pea" again this afternoon and see if I can get her to eat. I sure pray that she does soon. I'm really worried about her.

Well, thanks again for your suggestions. I'll let you know any updates here in a little while.

Wishing you the best with my sincere appreciation. Thai

Ok let us know what the results are.

Make sure that you change the water in her "pail" daily, ammonia and nitrites can build up quickly with no filter system and no cycle in there.

Does she look swollen? If so you can add a 1/8 tsp of epsom salt in her water. This will help to draw fluid off her.

Thanks LauraP

I did change the water. She is very puffed up/swollen. As I mentioned, I posted photos to an album here. Are you able to see them?

I tried giving her the peas again tonight, but she's not eating anthing.

I have some medicine here called "quick cure". It's for a multitude of ailments. Should I put a couple of drops in there?

I will also try the salt. Does it have to be epsom salts? Or, can it be the aquarium salt?

Again, Thank you kindly for all of your assistance.

I hope you have a very blessed evening.

I can't see the pics. Is her scales sticking out? Like a pine cone?

When a fish is swollen epsom salt is better. What size tank do you have her in now?

Also if you can raise the temp of her tank to 80 degrees will help her. Higher temps can boost her immune system. Do this slowly though, about 2 degrees an hour.

With the swelling I am afraid of a couple things..........Dropsy for one. If her scales are sticking out we know this isn't good.
If the swelling is caused by egg impaction (if she is a she) then this is not good either.

Warmer water will help her with either problem. Epsom salt as well.

How many days has she not eaten anything? Don't let her go more than 3 with being ill.
If you have to force feed her there is a couple techniques. Gently hold her in your hand and place the pea in her mouth. If this doesn't work you may have to may "pea soup" with her tank water and use a very small syringe and force her that way.
She will need food for strength.

If you diagnos Dropsy then there is a Pinned topic in the reg diag/dis forum that will help you. If this is the case then buying a medicated food Metromed from Goldfish Connection (online) will help her as well.

I am working and won't be home until late tonight, but I will check your thread right before I leave this morning.

Thank you for your blessing..............you have the same.

Thanks again for the great input, LauraP.

She's about the same today. She's still not eating.

Sorry that you can't see the pic's. I don't know how the "album" thing works on this website. I just went into "my controls" and created an album, then marked it as public. Oh well.

She is in a container that you use to hold file folders. It's plastic and you buy them at Office Depot or Max. We guess it to be about 9-10 gallons. I've been changing the water every day and I had a bubbler in with her.

As for temperature, the water is about 78 degrees. We live in FL about 60 miles north of Key West, so it's pretty warm here right now (days around 86). We have a canopy over the pond, but I sat her container in the sun for a few minutes this afternoon to try and warm it up a bit.

Her scales do NOT appear to be sticking out or pine cone shaped. But, she seems like she's just "bumping" into things. I'm afraid that maybe she's become blind. It seems like she doesn't even see the peas (even though they're mushed, she still should be able to see them).

I put the epsom salt it there tonight. Will see if that helps.

What do you mean by "make pea soup". I'm not sure I understand. I'm willing to try anything to help her out. I'm such a lover of animals. I've been nursing a baby red-headed woodpecker since last night, too. My neighbor dropped it off last night when they came home from work and found it in their pool. Poor thing was soaked through and through.

Anyway, back to Angel Baby. I'll see how she's doing in the morning, and if she's no better I'll try to find the medicine you mentioned. I do have two different kinds of medicine here. One called "Quick Cure" by Aquarium Products. It says that it's for Ick, Gasping for Air, Flicking, Protozoan Parasites, Mild Fluke, Costia, Chiladonella and Trichodina. The other one I have it called "DesaFin" by Tetra Pond. This one says that it controls parasites, bacteria and fungus. I don't know if you think that either of these might help.

Well, hope that you had an excellent day at work. I'm wishing you a wonderful evening and an even better tomorrow!!

Thanks again.

Ok I wouldn't use meds on her at this point. My suspision is that she is constipated and has SBD swim bladder disease.

How many days has she not eaten? I am sorry if you told me, it is often hard to keep everyone's threads straight.
The pea soup I referred to is mashing up a pea adding water to make it liquid and using a syringe to force feed her.

Even though you live in Fl. Keeping her temp at a specific 80 and not bounce around will help. Is there a way to know what it is?

Is is possible to get a small 10 gal tank and a heater?

With SBD they often look confused and "blind" acting. They can't right themselves. There isn't much more you can do, I have heard cooked rice can help but if she isn't eating........Time will tell.

I know it is hard to see her like this. If at any point you feel she is suffering and shouldn't continue euthanisia is best. We can lead you thru that as well.
Have a wonderful evening yourself.

Good Evening to you LauraP,

Thanks again...you have been sooo very helpful.

I will go tomorrow and find a 10 gallon tank with heater if she isn't any better. I was just outside with a flashlight watching her. It does hurt to see her struggling so hard to keep upright and bouncing off the sides of the container. Poor, poor baby.

Tomorrow will be her third full day with NO food. I'm really worried. She won't touch the peas, so I guess I'll try the syringe tomorrow. I didn't know if it would make matters worse to touch and hold her. But, she can't go on not eating.

How much "soup" do you put in the syringe? How fast do I give it to her? Do I just mash up two or three peas with a teaspoon of the pond water?

I'm really sorry to keep bugging you. I just want her to be OK.

Thanks again and have a terrific evening.

That is ok you are not bugging me. It is my pleasure to help you and her.

I would mash up one pea with water and just give that. It is ok to hold her, just be very gentle.

Is she flipped over completely all the time? And where, on the surface or the bottom?

I thought that it was over this morning when I went out and looked at her. She was not moving at all. I moved the water around and she still didn't stir. She was upside down on the bottom. Finally, all of a sudden she uprighted herself and swam to the other side of the container!

But, she's still not very good. She is eating just a tiny bit of the peas though. Just a little nibble. Should I force feed her or let her do it on her own? Will that give her strength? She stays on the bottom of the tank. I put a plant (plastic) in there with her. She gets under it in the corner and leans into it to keep herself upright. As soon as she moves around though, she flips back upside down.

I don't know what to do. I really wonder if she is suffering. I sure hope not. Do you think it's been too long? I'm going to try another pea and see if she will eat it. How often should I give her one? And, if she is eating a little, is that enough to get her better?

I'm afraid every time I check on her that it might be the last time.

Well, hope that you had a good day. Thanks again.

I wouldn't lose hope yet, but I hope you do realize that this doesn't sound promising. A couple things to keep in mind is her "personality" when making the "quality of life" desision. Is she anything like herself, or her breathing how slow is it. Slow breathing is worse than rapid breathing.

I would feed her a pea every couple hours or so until she can eat good again. Hopefully that will give her a push towards the healing side. Were you able to get the heater?

I should be on and off all weekend keep us posted.

Good and blessed morning to you.

Well, it's looking bleaker and bleaker. She just pretty much stays upside down in the bottom of the tank now.

I got her a tank and heater. And, I'm feeding her mushed peas with an eye dropper. But, when I put her back into the water, she just spits most of it back out. You can see her expel it when she gets into the water.

If she doesn't pop out of it a little bit today, I'm not sure that I should let her keep struggling. It's just killing me to watch her. BUT, I don't want to end her life just because I'm in pain watching her if there is hope that she might come around!!

I guess I don't quite know what to do.

Hope you have a terrific weekend. I'll be spending most of it by her side. Keep the faith as I am.

Oh, you are such a good fishy mom. Have you added the epsom salt to her tank or container yet? If not that may be something to do.

I know how heartbreaking it is to watch them suffer. My thoughts will be with you today. Update me when you get a chance and if I can be of any assistance to you let me know.

We're still hanging in there.

Yes, I've added the epsom salt. Do I keep adding a little every so often, or is once enough?

She still isn't keeping much of the pea mush in. I put the little eye dropper of the mush in her little mouth and she acts like she swallows it. But, then when I put her back into the water, you see her expel most of it. I wish I could hook her up to a "P-IV" ...get it! Just trying to find a little smile in all out sadness. I feel like I'm just prolonging the inevitable. Well, we'll try to keep our head above water...or, under as the case may be.

Hope that your weekend is going very well.

Thanks again...your support has been terrific!!

I got it. It is important to still find the light side in even the darkest of events.
You can add the salt up to 3 times, each dose being 12 hours apart. Then you must stop and only replace the salt if you do a water change. Salt is removed when you remove the water. If you need further explanation just let me know.

My wknd is going well. It is rainy and a lazy day, the hubby is out trying to get a used car and I am home with the dogs. Take care.

On a side note, just in case have you read up on euthanizing a fish? Might be a good idea, there is a couple different ways to do so peacefully. Let me know.

Hi,
Just a quick note...I don't know if this is good or bad, but here's a little tip. Instead of steaming frozen peas, then deshelling them and mashing them...try strained baby food peas!! This is working much better. She's actually keeping some of the "soup" down. I'm warming it just a tad and adding a little tank water. Then putting it into the eye dropper. It works like a charm!!

It might be a really bad idea , but it sure is much easier and she seems to tolerate it much better. if it makes her worse, I'm going to kick myself. I've been giving it to her every couple of hours.

I don't want to get too hopeful, but she seems just a bit more active tonight. Also, maybe it's just me, but she doesn't look quite as bloated. I'm praying that's a good sign.

I've been changing part of the water in the mornings to be sure and keep the nitrites and nitrates in check. So, I've been adding the salt (about 2 tsp) a couple times a day.

We'll see how she is tomorrow. But, if she is not responding in a positive way by tomorrow, I think I better ask about the euthanizing. Monday will be a week that she's been struggling like this.

Hope your evening is going well. I hope you find a really good used car. Do you live where the weather is good? Do you have to deal with car rusting? Here in FL we don't have that, but when I lived up north (about 20 years ago), we always had to check the cars out to be sure that they weren't rusted out.

What kind of dogs do you have? I have a Lhasa Apso (Thai) and a Yorkie (Coco). They're my babies, too. Also, I have a cockatial (Princess) and 2 parakeets (Tweeny and Skiaya). With the nine fish, my husband says I have a menagery!

I'll give an update in the morning.

Again, thanks for your technical, as well as moral support.

Baby food is a wonderful way to go, infact I use it is the gel food I make, but this would work too!! Good for you. It should be just fine.

I am glad she seems a little better. Once she is eating good again, slow down with the food, we don't want to give her too much.

Your plan sounds fine, it is so hard to be patient when they are struggling.

We live in Michigan so yes we have to deal with salt on the roads in the winter. My hubby's truck is pretty beat up and is in need of several $$$ repairs and it is a gas hog, so he is trying to go a car with good gas milage.
Being a vet tech I have a few animals myself. 1 German Shepherd-Nadja, 1 pointer mix-Mandy, a rott/cocker mix-Paco (he came with the hubby), a cat named Mattie. 4 orandas, a betta and a rubberlip pleco.
I just recently lost 2 orandas in the last month it was very difficult.

Keep me posted.

I'm soooo sorry to hear about your loss. Here I'm going on about my little baby, and I should have known that you had experienced this by the way you've been so compassionate to my plight.

Do you have them in a tank or pond? I love my 2 orandas (Gabriella and Rafael), but I must say that my 2 red caps (Angel Baby and Miracle Baby) are my favorites. I wish that you could get into the album that I set up on this website. You could see all my little babies.

A "vet tech"...wow, that must be a great job. I love being around animals. All my neighbors bring their little critters or problems to me. Just Thursday night, my neighbor found a baby woodpecker that a huge crow had apparently dropped in their fountain!! Sooo...of course they bring the poor thing to me. I warmed it up and dried it off, then took it down to our local conservency. They have a wonderful refuge for injured wild or exotic animals. The girl there that night was really sweet. I told her that she had a great job, too!

Well, I guess that I'm rambling on here. Sorry to hear that you live in cold, cold Mighigan...Just kidding. We used to live about 90 miles north of Chicago, so I know how brutal the weather can be there. I love it down here. All my family lives here now, so I don't have the anxiety of missing everyone any more.

I know how hard it is to find a good used car. Up until this past February, my husband was driving a 1970 Ford pickup. That thing was hanging on by a thread...literally!!! We finally got him a new one (for Valentine's Day)! But, we suffered for many years sticking more and more $$ into it and the gas mileage was horrific!! I sure hope that you have good luck.

Well, thanks as always . I'm praying for my little baby tonight. You said "once she is eating good again, slow down with the food"...do you mean the pea soup? How long do I keep her on strictly the pea food (providing she gets better)? And, how long do I keep her out of her regular pond? I don't have a filter in this little tank. That's why I keep changing part of the water every day. When I bought it the other day, I just got the tank and the heater (plus I have a bubbler in there). I want to make sure that she gets very healthy, but I don't want to risk her getting anything else in the meantime.

Well, I guess that's enough harassing for tonight. Take care and have a blessed Sunday.

Sounds like you are a lover of animals as well.

Well I guess it is going to be a judgement call on when to put her back. With using the heater you will want to acclimate her to decreasing temps slowly whenever you do decide to put her back.
I would make sure that the water chem is perfect before doing so though. Oh make sure the ph are close from tank to pond. Don't want to "shock" her.

With the pea soup, I would do it for a good 3-5 days. Yes, she will need some protein soon but switching her may make her "flip" again.
Maybe try a little "chicken" baby food mixed in with the peas, or even better yet, some tuna blended with it.

I would maintain what you are doing thru the wknd though, see how things are Monday.

It has been great getting to know you, I hope you have some fun this wknd and enjoy the nice weather. Have a wonderful night.

Good Morning,

It's pretty bad this morning. She's really struggling today. She can't stay upright at all. ...Even when she swims now, she is falling over. I guess we better discuss other options.

I don't know if I can do it. I might have to tell my husband how. Please let me know what you think. I've tried really hard to make her comfortable and to give her some strength, but I really don't think that she's doing very well.

Let me know if you get a chance what you're feelings are. Should I give her more time and keep hoping? It will be a week tomorrow that she started acting this way. I wish I knew if she was hurting...

Well, hope you have a blessed Sunday.

Thanks again.

Well I can't really tell you if you should or shouldn't, that is one rule of being a technician. We can help to give you as much knowledge and guidence as possible, but in the end it has to be your desision.

I will tell you that if you have a vet that will do it for you is the best way. They give an injection and in a short time the fish will die. It isn't as easy as with dogs or cats, because they can't hit a vein on the fish but give it "abdomenally" and it takes longer that way.

To do it at home is a couple methods. The first being clove oil. You can get this at "natural, vitamin" stores. There is a thread on euth here on the site (i will try and link you) that goes into doses and how. The fish goes to sleep from the clove oil and then dies.
The second is the freezer method, this one has debate to it. How it works is placing the fish in a container of it's tank water in the freezer. The fish will slip into hybernation mode and then die. Some have debated on whether or not they feel "frostbite" or not.

Most members have strong feelings one way or another.
A third way is to use a sharp knife and quickly cut the fishes head off. This I don't recommen myself, but others feel it is painless.

I don't know if it is time. I can suggest that you discuss it as a family and see how her quality of life is. Some things to ask yourself.....
Is she enjoying any of her existance?
Is she able to swim, even "flipping" over?
Is she eating?
How is her attitude?
And last but not least..........What is your instinct telling you? This is so important. Listen to your gut not your heart or your head. This will not lead you wrong.

I will be in and out the rest of the day. Let me know of your plan.

Hi,
Thanks very much for the info. Method 3 is out of the question!!! I got sick just reading your sentance! Method 2 is not too great either. I don't think I could put her in a container and then into the freezer. SO...I guess if it comes to that I'll try to see if I can handle Method 1.

She's not better today...and possibly a little worse. She seems a bit more tired. I think that she is losing her strength. She spends more and more time just in the corner upside down. And, if she gets in the wake of the bubbler, she has no control on bringing herself out of it.

I'm going to give her another day and see. That will be one week since she got sick.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks and I hope you have a good week.

I know some of the methods sound well..........but some members swear by them. I think it is a personal preference between the ones we "know" to be as painfree as possible.

How is she doing today? My thoughts are with you in this time. It wasn't very long ago I had fishy death looming over me. I have brought a couple back from horrendous sickness and lost some too.

Bless you for helping the little one.

Hi,
Hope you had a great Monday.

Yeah...I really think I'll have a problem with the last two methods. I'm really sorry that you had to go threw this. But, I guess that's part of having pets. It's still really hard...even if it is "just a fish" as my husband puts it. We lost one of our beloved dogs a while ago and that was just horrible! I couldn't even come in the house without crying for a couple of weeks.

Angel Baby in still hanging in there. She's about the same. She just doesn't seem to be getting any better...but, she's not really any worse either. She does seem to be staying more in the corner propped up by the plastic plant that I put in there. It gives her some stability and lets her rest. Otherwise, she's constantly fighting not to flip over.

I'm going to keep the vigil a while longer. I'm afraid that if I ended it now, I would wonder if maybe...just maybe she might have come around.

I was wondering if I should try a little bit of regular fish food...ground up small. She really hasn't had anything to eat since last Monday other than the little bit of pea soup she gets into her little mouth. What do you think? Would it hurt her if she ate a tiny bit of regular food (if I grind it up really small...maybe even mix it in with the pea soup and use the eye dropper)? I don't want to set her back to where we started, but she has to be "cleaned" out of everything except the peas.

I just thought maybe it would give her a little bit more strength. I'll wait to hear your opinion before I try it.

Well, have a great evening and even better tomorrow. Thanks so much for your concern and caring.

Well I guess I would try a little protein by using some tuna mushed up in the eye dropper as well. Use the non salt/oil stuff. This may give her some protein.
I would be hesitant to give reg flakes or even pellets at this point.

I have heard that cooked rice can help with SBD as well. Maybe grind it up as well. I haven't tried that, and have heard it needs to be "very done" so it doesn't swell any.

Good luck, sometimes not getting worse is progress. Time will tell. Hang in there.

I tried the tuna today. She doesn't much care for it...course she doesn't much care for the peas either. Isn't a fish eating tuna kind of like canabalism??? Just wondering!

Is it normal for fish to be like this for over a week? I mean do they recover even after being in distress for this long? Can the swim bladder all of a sudden just come back or fix itself? I was just wondering. I really don't understand the workings of the swim bladder, so I don't know if this means that she is just sick, or her bladder is damages (temporarily or permanently), or if it's something that just goes away? Just a dumb "fish newbie" question.

Hope you're having a great day. Angel Baby and I are still hanging in here. She's about the same...no real change.

I'll keep you posted.

To be very honest a fish that isn't improving in this length of time is going to be a fish that is probably going to live out its life "twirling". It is sad but true. Some people leave them alone and let them live this way feeding them and giving special needs to them. Others "let go", the desision is yours, but she probably isn't going to have a "complete" turn around at this point. Sorry!!

I am sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, work took over my life and I was spent.

Let me know if I can be of assistance.

Don't ever feel sorry for not responding. First, I certainly understand that the "people" world often takes over and we must sometimes be attentive to the "human beings" in our lives, while our little "animal" friends just watch on...Just kidding. Second, I just sincerely appreciate the time that you have taken to help me through this. You don't know how much it means just to have this little place to "vent" and get support. You have been great!!!

It's so hard to decide what to do about Angel Baby. She seems so lonely in that little tank. Now she just puts her head into the corner of the tank hiding under the plastic plant I have in there. She stays there ALL day and night unless I get her up to feed her. My husband and I were wondering if it wouldn't just be better to put her back into the pond with her other buddies. Then, I would still take care of feeding her the special "soup" (peas and tuna). Even if she flips around, at least she would not be alone and she could at least die happy. She seems so lost right now. She's always been in that great big pond and now she's stuck in that little bitty tank.

I don't know if that would be worse...but, with her just keeping in the corner, not moving or swimming or anything, I can't believe that she's enjoying her last days. It's so hard watching her be so miserable. I just feel so bad for her. I know she's used to having all the other fish around and she used to be so playful with them all.

I could keep a close eye on her in the pond and if any of the other started to pick on her, I could pull her back out. What do you think? Is it worth a try or is that definitely a "death sentance" for her?

If you get a chance, please let me know your thought. Again, I thank you so much for your kind assistance.

Have a very great and blessed day.

Thanks for the kind words, today has not been good for me.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to try and put her back in, as long as you watch her. If you see others "hurting" or "nibbleing" on her you'll need to pull her out.

I think it would be good to know the params of the tank and pond before doing so.

Sometimes it can help them to be in with others and some fish do better alone. It is worth a shot.

I know how hard it is to need to vent and have people who feel the same be with you to support and help. That is why I am here, not many people understand my passion for my fish. Thankfully I have a hubby who is wonderful and loves them as I do. But I don't ever take for granted this.

I hope all is well in your neck of the woods tonight.

Thanks again for the input.

I would never do anything to put her at risk. IF..I do put her back in the pond, I will make sure that all variables are as good as they can be before she goes in there. I thought that I might put a small bit of pond water at a time into her tank to acclimate her before making the move. I'm still not sure about doing it. It's just that she seems so very lonely and just hangs her little head in the corner of the tank all the time.

I will definitely watch her every secord when I put her in. If I see anyone else "bullying" her, I will pull her right out.

I so sorry to hear that your day was not too good for you yesterday. I'm sending you all great thought for today...It's FRIDAY and only good things are going to come to you!!

Take care and I'll let you know what I end up doing.

Thanks I will take those nice thoughts and believe the same!!!!

Yes keep an eye on her and keep me updated. Make sure that the params of the waters on both tank and pond match pretty close or that could do more damage than good.

If Ms. Laurie P. is still out there somewhere, I just want to give a long overdue update...

Little Miss Angel Baby is still alive!!! 4 weeks now!

She's not really better, but she's still moving around. I feed her 3 times a day with baby strained peas and mashed tuna using my handy-dandy eye dropper!

There has been one change, though. We've given up the pond!! We bought a 75 gallon aquarium and put all the fish in there...including Angel Baby! She swims with the best of them...but, spends a lot of time head down on the bottom of the tank. We decided to let her enjoy whatever time she has left with her buddies.

I still take her out a feed her separately because she can't seem to feed herself. The "big guys" kind of shove her out of the way, plus she just doesn't seem to see the food.

Anyway, I hope and pray that all has been well with you. I'll keep giving you periodic updates.

Thank you very much for all the support you have given to me.

GREAT!!! I am so glad to hear she is "somewhat" better. Sounds like she is going to have a lot of fun with her friends around her.

Definetly keep us updated and hang around here we love new people.

The news is not good...I thought that she was maybe improving a bit...but, now her tail is starting to rot and she's getting really sluggish. I'm afraid that it might be time to send her to the big pond in the sky

I'll let you know her TOD...We sure tried hard and she has fought a long, hard battle. But, I'm so afraid that she's suffering now. She won't eat, and she just spits up the peas and tuna. Doesn't look good.

I'll let you know

Hope you are having a very blessed day and things have been well since we last chatted.

Take care and may God bless...

Oh I am sorry to hear this. I was hoping she was doing well.

It is very difficult when you have a fish with this, often even with the best of treatments they don't end up living very long.
I know you have done your best. At least you give her some nice days since our last chat.

Keep me posted, and I hope your week improves!!!

Hi,

I hope that you've had a good and blessed week. Ours has been up and down with little miss "angel baby". Every time that I think the end is near (or it's time to send her to the big pond in the sky), she seems to perk up a bit.

But, now I'm not too sure. I have a couple of questions for you if you wouldn't mind...

First, she used to spend most of her time head down on the bottom of the tank. It would look like she was at least trying to forage for her food. But, now she is spending more and more time just floating through the middle of the tank. It seems like she struggles to get herself back down to the bottom. And, if she gets anywhere near one of the air bubblers, they just "zing" her across the tank.

I think that she has really lost all of her strength. Being that she is just floating around, does this mean that her bladder has gotten worse, OR is it getting better in that she does not just "sink" to the bottom?

Secondly, her tail is pretty shredded. I guess you could say that it looks like it is rotting. It also seems that you can see what appears to be blood streaks through the veins in her tail. This is bad, huh? Is this condition contagious to the other fish in the tank? Is there anything that I can do to help with this new problem?

I'm getting really worried that with her not really being able to get to the bottom, she can't even attempt to feed herself. Even though I'm still feeding her the strained baby peas and mashed tuna, I thought that for a while when we first put her into this new tank she was trying to eat off the bottom. Now I don't think that is the case.

Does her getting closer and closer to the top mean that the end is near? And, what can I do to help her with this tail problem? Does this hurt her? Is she in pain?

I'm really sorry to bother you on your weekend, but I've been getting more and more worried that we are just prolonging the inevitable, OR making her suffer in pain, OR putting the other fishes health at risk by leaving her in the tank with them.

Thank you as always for your kind assistance and I sincerely hope that you have a terrific weekend!!

Bye...

TSK it is no bother to help.

It is difficult to say whether or not "floating" in the middle is progression of her disease or her gaining control. You will be the best judge of this. Does she seem to have more control of herself or less? This will be a true guide as to which she is doing.

With the tail being shredded and the red streaks (the red indicates septicimia, which is very very bad) I am wondering what the params of the tank now are.

Septicimia is a bacterial infection of the blood stream. It is more fatal than not without injectable antibotics by a vet or someone who can do that and has access to the meds. Is this possible, taking her to a vet? Most vets don't see fish so finding one is hard and can be expensive, so don't feel bad if it is not an option.
Antibotic food can help, but the injections are better.

I would suggest if I haven't before to order a medicated food from Goldfish Connection (online) if you can.

Depending on what is causing the septicimia will mean if it is contagious or not. I would panic just yet over that, but I would keep a very close eye on her and if she is expelling any fluid (diarrhea or such) then I would remove her asap.

Keep me posted. We are here for you.

Thank you for the good info. I'm afraid that it doesn't look too good for her. I don't think that she is gaining any control. I think that she is just floating because she is tired. She sometimes is upside down when she floats, and if she were gaining control, I wouldn't think that she would allow herself to be that way.

As for the tail problem...I don't think there is any vet here that will handle fish. If she is still with us on Monday, maybe I will make some calls, but I'm sure I wouldn't find anyone today (Satuday after 12:00pm).

I do have some medication that I had purchased. It's called Maracyn-Two. It says that it is for "Septicemia" and "tail rot", as well as for " dropsy, popeye and gill disease. It is a broad spectrum antibiotic. It is in a pill form that you disolve in the water. Should I try this? If so, should I put it in the tank with the other fish, or should I try and isolate her in another container giving only her the antibiotic? OR, would this help the other fish if this turns out to be something contagious?

Just wondering what you thoughts would be on the use of the medication at this point. Thank you again. You're always so helpful and kind.

Have a great day.

Do you have a "safe" tank to house her in? Sorry I can't remember if you have a hospital tank.
If so this would be best.
Yes I would go ahead and use the Maracyn, it is a good antibotic.
Just a reminder to keep the hops. tank water pristine.

Hope you are having a great wknd.

I had a small tank, but "silly me"...I got rid of it (sold it to use money towards new tank) when I got this big one. I'll see what I can do. Thanks again for the information.

Would the Maracyn be better or wout tetracyclyn (poor spelling) be better?

Also, if I can't get another tank again right away (I spent quite a bit on this new 75 gallon tank...husband might flip if I say I need to buy another small tank again), can I put the antibiotic into the big tank with the other fish?

Have a great weekend. Hope that your weather is better than ours has been...Hurricane Allison has been dumping a ton of rain on us down here.

Thanks again...take care.

Goodness I didn't know there was a hurricane, just thought there was Arlene down there. Please stay safe.

Now I normally don't recommend treating everyone but if you have to you have too. Shouldn't be a big deal.
I would use the Maracyn though, it should help if anything will.

Dear LaurieP...
I don't know if you ever recheck this post...but, just thought I'd let you know that Angel Baby is still alive!!!

She's not the greatest, but she seems fairly content in her hospital tank. We fixed it up kind of nice for her...she's eating and swims around. She still stays head down most of the time, but she doesn't flip totally over any more. Her tail is gradually repairing itself...I give her antibiotics daily and keep her in pure, clean water. I don't know if we're doing the right method with her, but she's still with us.

Just thought I send in an update.
Take care and I hope that all is well with you.
Thai

Thai,
I'm hoping you still post here- I came across your posts through Yahoo search. I was wondering how your fish was still doing?
My goldfish has been doing exactly what you had described.
How did Maracyn II work? I've been treating my Goldie about two days now and nothing seems any different =(
Did you use any other antibiotics? Have any important tips?
Thanks a bunch,
Sasha

Hi Sasha, I've noticed this is your first post, if you are wanting specific help with your fish you might want to try starting a new topic in 911 (999), and try to answer as many questions that appear in the white box that you can, as it is with this information that we can help you with your problems specifically.

Welcome to this site! it's a great place to learn more about goldfish keeping! have fun, and good luck with your fish.