since tha past months my water is a lil cloudy
i started the tank bout six months ago my water was crystal clear with out using water conditioner

i use Aquaplus, and put 5 mL/one cap full says treats 10 gallons
do i have to use it?
i use it on my 20 gallon and 30 gallon

my grandpa has a 175 gallon tank and he does not use any chemicals in his tank
and he doesnt check his water.
he only does his regular water changes twice a week 20%
and he had bought some Comet Goldfish at the same time i did which were 1 inch
now his fish are 7 inches
and mine r only 2.5 inches

is it true? less chemicals better fish?

well part of the reason might be the size of his tank, goldfish have more room to grow into. what is the water like in your house? if you have really pure water, then it might be okay, as long as you let the water sit out to let the chlorine evaporate. i always use a water conditioner to get rid of chlorine etc. and help the fish with their slime coating. i don't see how the conditioner would stunt their growth.

we have tha same water type
he only lives 2 blocks away from me so i think the water is the same

PH in water is 7.0/netural
and no harm ful metals

but does water conditioner make tha water cloudy?
ill post sum pics of my new 30 gallon and my other 20 gallon soon

okay. i don't see how using a conditioner would harm your fish or prevent their growth. just because it is a "chemical" doesn't make it bad. everything is made out of chemicals. the size of the fish could be differ for any number of reasons.

I use Prime & it has never made my water cloudy. I usually only have oribs with that when cycling!

Hope this helps!

Are you on well water or city water?
Most cities use chloramine or chlorine to disinfect water and that's toxic to fish. So most likely you do need to dechlorinate if you're on city water.

i wanted to kno why my other tank the 20 gallon is so cloudy?
here are some pics
<-- 30 gallon new tank

<-- i kno its overstocked rite now becuz im temperorly puttin them there


click on da pics to see them betta

So how bout you tell use specifics about your tank and filters and how you maintain them.
What and how much are you feeding?
Are you on well water or city water?
also, please post your water test readings.

the water is city water

and rite now for my 20 gallon
running a Aqualclear mini
i do gravel vac every two weeks taking out 20%
i rinse the media in the filter during gravel clears
i feed them twice a day. morning and evening
i have one bubble wand and one fake plant

i only have a pH tester rite now and
the PH is under 6.2
for the other things like ammonia and nitrites
i had checked it at petsmart
and they said it was a lil high, not much dont worry about it to much

i heard that if the PH is low, it cause the fish too rest on the bottom of the tank
and i saw that one fish had done that for tha past two days

how should i b bringing my PH up?
i have used those PH increasers but they dont work
and how do i use baking soda? do i have to use it always or does it last forever once i put it in. and do i have to buy a kh tester bfor i use baking soda?

You're rinsing the filter in discarded tank water right?

Given your pH tends to get acidic, yes, a KH test would be a good thing to have.
Bicarbonates (KH) is what keeps pH from getting acidic over time.
As your biofilter converts ammonia to nitrAte it uses up bicarbonates and releases acids which will lower pH over time if your KH isn't high enough.
Baking soda added bicarbonates... but they get used up over time and if you water doesn't have much bicarboantes in it, your pH will slip back down. so yea... you'll need to buffer with baking soda routinely to maintain pH. Crushed oyster shell or crushed coral will also help.

Let's start by raising your ph up to around 7.
1/3 teaspoon of baking soda will raise KH by 1dh or 17.9ppm.
predissolve in tank water then add to a high flow area. Give it time to disperse well then check pH again. The goal is to raise pH by no more than .4 per day. I'd repeat this process daily till you get pH up to 7. I don't want to take it higher just yet, till we're sure your ammonia isn't high cuz ammonia is more toxic at higher pH. Later after we're sure your biofilter bugs are happy (0ppm ammonia), it would be good to take pH up in the high 7s. You'd want KH at about 120ppm to keep pH stable between partial water changes.

So what color is the cloudiness? white or green?

i rinse tha filter media under the tap... is that bad?
how should i b doing it

and the cloudyness is white milky foggy^scroll up to see tha pictures
i will go and buy a master test thing so i can test everything in one dip

Yes, rinsing in tap water is bad. It kills the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrAte. Gotta be nice to them cuz they keep your water happy. Just swish it in discarded tank water. It's it really clogged, swish it then smack it up against something.

So did you add the baking soda? How's your pH now?

i cleaned the tank yesterday and the filter media and did jus like u said
yes i added 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda today, and will test it in the afternoon


tha water cleared up about 50 percent, its not cloudy no more as much i wish it says like this and gets more clear

i put my aquaclear 50 filter on it to get sum biobugz into my other tank

Cool.
How's your water doing?

water is doing great, its getting clear it problly was a bacteria bloom
so its clearin up slowly

last time i check the PH it was 5.5
then u told me to add baking soda for the first time so i did
and slowly i brought it up to 6.2 through the weekend
but it seems to drop in 3days a lil bit is that normal?
now the PH is 6.0 so i have add another 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda
ill let it cycle and give u an update

need to keep raising it by about .4 per day till you're up at pH of 7. below 6 can be deadly to both goldies and your biofilter bacteria.

i tested it and the PH was 6 it seems to drop within 24 hours?
i added another 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda today
and its back to 6.5 yellow
and 7.0 on the tester is sorta yellow green

why does it drop back slowly?
how can i hold it at 7.0?

how long does it take for it to balance at 7.0PH?
will it drop back to acidic?

When your pH is acidic (below 7) you have more acids than buffers in the water. at pH of 7, acids and buffers are balanced. when pH us above 7 you have more buffers than acids, so extra buffers are floating around waiting for the acids to show up.

As your biofilter converts ammonia to nitrAte it uses up your buffers (bicarbonates) and releases acids which will lower pH over time if your KH isn't high enough. Right now you're playing catch up. gotta keep raising pH by .4 per day.

The reason I'm suggesting you stop at pH of 7 for right now and then keep an eye on it and add more baking soda to maintain your pH there, is that you were showing ammonia and ammonia is less toxic at lower pH.

After your biofilter bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrIte are up to speed and ammonia is reading at or close to 0ppm, then I'd take pH on up to around 7.8. that way you have extra buffers in the tank to keep pH from getting acidic between partial water changes. Even then, you'll still need to add baking soda at each partial water change to make sure there are enough buffers to keep pH stable since your tap water isn't well buffered. crushed coral or crushed oyster shell placed in a high water flow area should also help keep pH from getting acidic.

oooh ic now
thanks for tha extra info

i think im doin pretty good in dis game
in the past 2 days i have kept it up at 6.8-7.0

i will try to find some crush coral somewhere bcuz i went to petsmart and they said they dont have it bcuz they dont have salt water fishes
but other stores might

if i do find them, how much should i be putting?
one shell?

thanks again DataGuru for responding quickly to my questions

You're welcome.

I'd start with 1/2 cup or so of crushed coral or crushed oyster shell. placed in a high flow area.

You can find crushed oyster shell at a feed store very cheap.

You oughta get your grandpa to add some to his tank too.

lol, ya ill tell em bout that

and also i tested the PH today and it is still up 6.8
ill slowly bring it up to 7.0
hope it stays

and also im doing a fishless cycle on the 30 gallon tank
and so far i jus added fish poo from the 20 gallon get ammonia
its been 2-2 and a half weekz now
how much should the PH be in that tank so that everything works out
its at 7.0 rite now

and dont kno bout nitrates and ammonia etc

i finally got my both tanks tested

here are tha results

20 gallon
ph - 6.8
chlorine - 0
Ammonia - .25 <--- is high bccuz i have 7 comets in there jus for temporarily
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 60
Hardness - 75


and for my 30 gallon which i restarted 3 weeks ago
30 gallon
Ph - 6.6
chlorine - 0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10
Hardness - 25



are these normal????

pH in both tanks is lower than I'd like.

So
Is your hardness number GH or KH? I'll bet it's KH since it's different between the two tanks.

Is the 20 gallon salted? nitrAte's kinda high. I'd step up partial water changes to reduce ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte. and if water changes don't bring pH up in the low 7s, I'd add baking soda rounded 1/4 teaspoon at a time, predissolved in tank water and added to a high flow area. Don't move pH by more than .4 per day. with a large bioload (I hope they're small comets!), pH will slip down faster. To protect against nitrIte poisoning, I'd also keep the salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon while you're seeing nitrIte.

30 gallon
Any idea if you tap water has any nitrAte in it?
So can you get ahold of any pure ammonia?
pH is low. I'd use baking soda to bring it up in the mid to high 7s. Doesn't matter how fast since no fish are in the tank. 1/2 teaspoon at a time would be good.

Did you find any crushed coral or crushed oyster shell?

none of the tanks are salted and i have never add any kind of salt to the tank

can i put some of my other fish into the 30 gallon yet?
petsmart said it was okay

The 30 is probably partially cycled. Don't know how much ammonia the fish food you've added generates compared to the amount that the fish will generate. I'd probably add some of the fish to lighten the load on the 20 gallon. If you do that, raise the pH to 7 with baking soda before you add them. I wouldn't go higher and you'll need to keep an eye on pH and buffer as needed to keep it from slipping back down. and do partial water changes to keep ammonia and nitrIte from getting too high while the filter finishes cycling and catches up with the fish load.

Since you're seeing nitrItes, adding 1 level teaspoon of salt per gallon of water (to both tanks). That will help protect against nitrIte poisoning.

what kind of salt?

Rock salt or aquarium salt. or table salt *if* it doesn't have anticaking ingredients in it like yellow prussiate of soda.

my PH has been at 7.5 for the last two weeks now without putting baking soda or checking PH

i just add 1/4 teaspoon every time i got a 20% gravel clean

i think i solved the problem
everything is balanced now

but i got a new question

for my 30 gallon it has been properly cycled now and has been almost two weeks since i put the fish in there

can i now do water changes? and rinse the filter media in the SAME water?

I'm not sure I understand your question. You can do water changes now & vac out the tank. You want to rinse out the filter in the old tankwater - preferably from the tank it came from (so just in case there are any nasties you don't share them between tanks)

Post back if this doesn't answer your question.

ye it does answer my question
thankz