exactly how does it work? I'm trying to run a fishless cycle. (some may remember this from another thread) I finally found some pure ammonia (thanks for the tip DataG found it at Ace). But one of the non-reliable pet stores recommended Nutrifin Cycle.

I've read in other threads that it's great stuff. But exactly how does it work? How can it cycle your tank and bypass normal cycling. Or does it just make the toxins non toxic so you can add your fish?

Cool.

So are you going to start with 5ppm ammonia? That'd probably toast the snails.

Cycle says it contains the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrIte and then to nitrAte. I doubt it has the right bacteria. Biospira from Marineland would be a better bet. Seeding from your existing filter would be cheaper and more effective. Doc Johnson describes instantly cycling his kid's tank with an UGF and sqeezings from his pond filter. I'm curious as to how the biobugs in the tank that have been without ammonia for a couple of weeks do.

I've been using "Cycle" with all my tanks. I've always had good results. eg. 200g with 10 fish - totally virgin set-up (new filter, new water, no gravel, you get the picture) Ok, it took a month for the tub to cycle but I did zero water changes. The highest readings I got were ammonia 3, nitrIte 5 - nothing a bit of Prime couldn't handle.

Personally, I haven't experienced Biospira, it's not available here, but I've only read excellent ravs about it.

Thanks to both of you. Would it hurt to put the Bio-spira in with the Cycle?

The lfs that sold me the bio-spira said to wait 24hrs before adding fish...so would that be 24hrs before adding ammonia too?

What is bio-spira? Does it help cylce the tank faster or does it just make it not as harmful?

Connie, you can add the ammonia any time you like. The only reason to wait before adding fish is to give the biospira a chance to start working. I don't think it would "hurt" to use both together, especially as you have no fish in the tank but it's probably a bit OTT and a waste of money.

Silver, bio-spira is 'bottled bacteria", it does claim to cycle the tank faster and be less harmful (lower levels of ammonia/nitrItes). Everyone seems mighty impressed by it's results and I'd love to give it a try if it ever becomes available.

Here you are Silver

http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp

this can explain it to you better than I can

Thanks Fishmerised

I'll start adding a bit of the ammonia. There was really only one nice sized snail that I have already removed. The others were tinier than the tip of a pin. As much as I don't like to put anything in harms way...these guys breed faster than the wild rabbits in my yard.

I'm really anxious to get this going so I can move my goldies.

You really don't need to do a fishless cycle with biospira if you stock moderately. Takes maybe a week or two to cycle.
Here's one thread where it was used to give you an idea what they saw with BS.

Wow, I'm gonna try using that when I bring my 55 gal in. I was trying to prolong it cause I didn't wanna cylce it but I guess a week or 2 at the most doesn't sound that bad. And if it actually works over night even better

Since I added the ammonia - 2 cap fulls last night (1 capfull equaled 1.00ppm but it was getting late so I only added 2caps). Tested just the ammonia this morning and it was just roughly around 2.00ppms. So I will wait to see how this does then and not add any more.

Since this is a pretty good sized tank (with the stand, it's over my head measuring about ohhh 66-72"H maybe?) I just didn't want to go through all the water changes I did with the other tanks when they went through their cycling.

Will test all water params later, after my son's baseball practice this evening.


Thanks for your help you two. I'll keep you up on my tanks progress

I've used Nutrafin Cycle and had good results with it

It cycled my tank with 2 fish in a 13 gallon for like 3-4 weeks...

Params this evening are

Ammonia: 1.0
Nitrates 20
Nitrites 0.00 to 0.25
Ph 7.6

Well the ammonia and nitrIte results show that something is cooking but what's with the nitrAtes? Hmmn, strange.

What were your nitrAtes starting out?

nitrates, with the water added the other tank, were around 10

Tap water is 0ppm

FishM.... I forgot to answer your Nitrate question

I had originally filled the tank 3/4ths full with tap water then as I did water changes on my other established tanks, I was using that water to slowly add to the new tank. Also I had an emporer 280filter that was fully cycled and an eheim 2028 that was partially cycled. Also there is a small area where I had used gravel from an established tank.

I am thinking that the nitrates came over from some of that stuff.

That explains it. No worries.

This evening

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrates 5.
Nitrites 0.25
PH 7.6

I think you could do what Dataguru suggested - add a fish. Those levels are pretty safe, it sounds like the cycle has started so you need to either add fish or add some more ammonia.

rather start with the fish...is it safe for flying fox's or plecos (Clown) I already have algea growth

So about 2 days to convert 2ppm ammonia.
so it looks like it can almost handle 1ppm per day at this point.

What happened to the 20ppm nitrAte?

on the fish. dunno. how touchy are those to ammonia and nitrIte? Doesn't sound like a big bioload.

My big moor was putting out 1ppm of ammonia per day in a 10 gallon tank last year. I wonder if w could use that to guestimate how much ammonia the biofilter would have to handle with your goldies based on 140 gallons.

The thing is if you don't get the biobugs up to speed to the point they can handle the goldies bioload, then after you add the goldies, it may take a bit for the biofilter to catch up if you add them all at one time. How big are they? I hear you about not wanting to have to do partial water changes on a big tank.

Goldies are about 2" to 4" without tails. Flying fox(looks like the dwarf Oto) is about 2 1/2." I could just add one at a time till the tank adjusts to the increased bioload. Which is what I was planning on doing anyway. I was just trying to avoid dragging the python through the house almost everyday. It's about 35' to the sink from the tank.

this morning

ammonia...not quite 0.25
nitrate between 20-40
(mabybe i didnt' shake the 2nd bottle good enough last night)
nitrite 0
ph 7.6

Thinking of what dataguru said about your tank now managing to cycle 1ppm of ammonia per day and her telescope (in 10g) producing 1ppm ammonia per day.

It's a huge tank, gee, if I'm getting this right you could add 14gf to get the same result as Betty in her 10g (1ppm ammonia daily). I don't think that's what she would recommend you do though.

Connie, I think if you are going to keep this cycle alive you need to add at least 3-4 fish. There is nothing to panic about. That number of fish isn't go to do anything drastic to upset the cycle. If your ammonia etc, does creep up a little bit just add some Prime. You don't need to use the full recommended dose each time. The recommended dose will deal with 6ppm ammonia, so for example if your ammonia is 2ppm only add one third of the dose.

Don't know if you thought any more about the biospira but I have used it and my tank was completely cycled in 2 weeks after I added it. I had been working for 6 weeks previous to that with daily and twice daily water changes to keep the water safe for my single goldie.

I'll tell anyone who will listen from now until the end of time that Biospira made my life much easier and I would gladly pay twice what they ask for it the next time I need to cycle a tank. I think it's miraculous!

Akk

I did have some biospira that I added to the tank. I had forgotten that one of the lfs had thrown it in when I was picking up gravel. So that is in the tank.

I added my flying fox, a small goldie (2" tops) and a clown pleco this morning before I left for work. Tested my params and will test again after I get home from work to see what effect these 3 smalls will do. If the params hold okay, then I add one of the bigger ones tomorrow. If params change then I'll wait

They were so funny. They seemed lost as they were checking out their new home!

Oh how funny! LOL I can't wait to get mine into the 125.

Annette: Yea, that's what I was thinking.
1 big goldie in 10 gallon--> 1ppm
so 1 big goldie in 140 gallons would be 1ppm/14 or .07ppm
if the logic holds.
Lumpy's body at the time was around 6 inches long.
so a 3" goldie would be .035ppm ammonia per day x 6 goldies would be about .2ppm per day in 140 gallons.

That sounds like a good plan.

Back before the biospira production plant in california went down, I tried biospira and it helped a little... I did read accounts of it almost immediately cycling tanks. but I think about 2 weeks is the norm.

Rourke has an interesting fishless method on his site.
He uses an ice chest, heater and airstone or venturi to move/oxygenate the water. Makes sure the water is buffered well. Stuffs the filter media in, cranks the heater up to 80 and adds both ammonia and sodium nitrIte. Says you can get the filter media up to speed in a couple of weeks that way cuz you don't have to wait around for the ammonia eaters to get up to speed to produce nitrIte for the nitrIte eaters. I think it'd work even faster if it were seeded from an existing filter. Saw some sodium nitrIte at a chemical store the other day, so if it ever comes down to needing a cycled filter in a hurry, that's probably the way I'd go.

Ohhhh the math. The math!! I never was good at story problems and it's been sooooo long since then.
Sorry. All joking aside, I'm pretty sure I follow you.

I have 3 other seeded filters that I can use if I need to do some switching.

Have been adding a fish a day, unless they are the smaller ones. If, by chance, you notice my signature you should be able to see my progress.

My params are staying...
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20-40
PH 7.6
testing in the morning and evening

It was great when I moved my Hong Kong plecos...they attacked the algea I was getting (some brown & green on the glass) like a pro. In the 2 days they have been in the tank they've done a fantastic job. As well as the flying fox. And all this time I thought that they were just neat to look at!!!

And my goldies....now it's like a reunion every time I add another one!! Namu...my partially blind black ranchu, tails everyone that comes in. Sort of reminds me of my dogs checking each other out after one has had a trip to the vet's!

Sounds wonderful!! We want pics!! LOL

Excellent !