Hello everyone,
First, let me introduce myself. My name is Lynn and I just started keeping Goldfish about three weeks ago. My husband and I filled a 100 gallon pond a few weeks ago and then headed to the LFS to get our fish. We originally went after Koi, but were told we would kill them by putting them in such a small pond, so we picked out two 4-5 inch Orandas and three 2 inch Orandas. I told the girl I had a garden statue that water trickled out of and asked if that would be sufficient oxygen for them and she said yes. I asked what to feed them and she sold me a bag of Wardley's floating pellets, and then off we went. Long story, short, after about two weeks, my smaller fish and one of the larger Orandas started getting raqgedy looking fins and I saw some white spots. I called another local pet shop and they advised getting a test kit. I tested the water and the nitrites were sky high, while the ammonia was next to normal. The PH out of the hose was 7.8. They suggested doing a 50% water exchange and putting salt in, which I did at 1TBSP./5gallons of water and to also add good bacteria to the water since my filter hadn't had a chance to build up the good bacteria it needed to stabilize the water. She also suggested moving the fish to a smaller 50 gal. pond we also have and adding salt and good bacteria to that before putting the fish in while doing the water exchange on the bigger pond. Well, the next day, I called the place where I got the fish very upset because my fish weren't looking so good and the manager explained that I probably got the Ich from their tanks and to go ahead and double the salt in both ponds. He said Goldfish love salt and that it would probably take care of the Ich since he doesn't like using chemicals. So, now we're at 2TBSP./ 5gallons. He suggested Pimafix for the fin rot and Maracide for the Ich if the salt didn't work. I did lose the calico and gold orandas, but my large Oranda is still hanging on. In the pond, she would hide and not eat. She would not really swim at all unless startled. Her tail is raggedy and her right gill doesn't seem to move like her left and she stayed at the top of the water as if she were floating. She also has some white spots on her tail that the salt doesn't seem to be getting rid of. He suggested I move her to a hospital tank, so we went out and bought a 10 gallon with a Top Fin 5/15 filter. We used the water out of the small pond that had been dosed with 2TBSP/ 5 gal. of salt, to fill this tank. Yesterday, the tests were all normal except for the ammonia which was .25. Tonight, the PH is 7.8, Ammonia is .50, Nitrite is .0, Nitrate is .0 and the temp is 78o. I've been using Pimafix for the last several days until today because I read somewhere here that there have been reports that fish have adverse reactions to it. I'm scared to use chemicals and am really beside myself as she is my fave fish of all. 'Margaret' is still swimming a little and not at the top the way she was. I noticed a long white thread-like thing trailing behind her and noticed that some of her scales seem to be missing. I'm worried about the ammonia level, but don't know what to do. I don't want to lose this fish as I have become quite attached to her. Can anyone give me a sequence of things I should do to help her? I know I should probably do a water exchange, but should I add more salt? Should I continue the Pimafix and start the Maracide? She's still not eating and I'm worried. Please help me if you can, I'm desperate to save her! Thanks so very much.
Lynn
P.S. All the other fish in the big pond are now doing great. I added a bubbler and plants and checked the water yesterday and all was normal. Now if I could just get my Margaret to feel better, I'd be ecstatic.

Lynn,
First off welcome to the site. We are glad to have new members here.

Your post is lengthy so I will try and cover as much as possible, but feel free if I miss something point it out.

A couple things I have not noticed are.............do you have a filter on either pond? What are they if you do.

Are you familar with the cycle of a tank or pond?
THis you will need to get a firm grasp of.
I am not a pond expert by any means, but cycling is the same.

If I were you I would stop all meds and concentrate on good water quality. This is what is making the fish sick.
Water quality is everything to the fish, it can kill them or make them healthy.
I would also do a small water change and try to keep the ammonia and nitrites as low as possible and still allow it to cycle.
If you are not familar with the cycle and read up on it, we can answer any questions on it.

You sound like a good fishy mom who is trying real hard, look thru the site you will find tons of information on here to help you learn how to care for them.

PS the salt is fine, when doing a water change you will need to replace the salt you remove with the water changes. Salt doesn't evaporate, it gets removed only with water changes.

Hi, Laurie,
Thanks so much for your reply. I apologize for the lengthy post, but I guess I was trying too hard to paint a complete picture. I am going to do a 25% water change and have already dechlorinated the new water and added the salt. I checked the water temp. in the tank and it is 78, but the new water is around 74 -76. Should I wait until the morning so it will be the same temp or will it harm the fish even more not to do it right away since the ammonia is up to .5? I'm just not sure if this is too much a temp change and if it would shock the fish. Thanks again.
Lynn

Laurie,
I'm sorry, I forgot to answer about the filter. The sick fish, Margaret, is in a tank with a Top Fin 5/15 filter. The pond has a square 12x12 biological filter, but I don't know the name of it. Thanks again.
Lynn

I've been posting about my Oranda with Ich and Fin Rot. The Ich is gone and her fins don't look as raggedy. She started swimming around normally and eating again yesterday, but today she periodically started swimming eratically. She's going after the floating thermometer and it looks like she's just more agitated and lively today. She's in a hospital tank that I have done two 25% water changes in the last two days. I noticed a long thin poo yesterday that was light colored, but I just read that this can possibly mean problems. She is orange with a black dorsal fin, front fins and tail, and she has black spots all over her side. Now, I don't know if these spots are something else or just part of her coloring or if she might have a bacterial infection because of her poo and the way she is swimming. She's about 4" long and I just don't know enough to diagnose her or what symptoms to look for, but I do know that yesterday all seemed well and today she just isn't acting as peaceful. How do I know if she has dropsy, or what is pineconing, or how do I know what meds or medicated food to use? How do I know if she has a bacterial infection or fungus? Now, she's heading up to the top of the water to get a breath of air and she keeps butting the floating thermometer again. I feel so helpless and I really need to get this right or I'm afraid I'll mess up and lose her. I tested my water this morning and the params are:
Ph- 7.4
Ammonia - .50 (was 1.0 before water change)
Nitrite - .0
Nitrate - .0
10 gallon tank with Top Fin 5/15 filter
1 TBSP salt/ 5 gal.
water temp - 77/78 degrees
She looks like she has a few scales missing, but this developed when she got the Ich and Fin Rot. I'm getting paranoid because I don't know how to diagnose what her problem is, therefore I don't know how to treat it. Please help me do the right thing.
Lynn

How long have you had this fish? The black could be healing ammonia burns. You should do water changed until you get the ammonia down to 0. My fish did the flashing and eratic swimming when they had fluckes - this is a possibility. You would know if she were pineconeing - her scales would really be sticking out and she would look bigger than normal. Afraid I can't help much more than that - someone will be along before long who can. Good luck.

Also, I've been gone for a while, but best I can remember the long light colored poo could be a bacterial infection.

Hi, Lachfa,
I've had her about three and a half or four weeks. She started out in my pond, but noone told me about how to take care of the water, pond cycling, or anything before I added the fish. I learned the hard way after I lost two fish. I moved her into a hospital tank when she became lethargic about 5 days ago and have been testing the water everyday. I guess tomorrow I'll do a 50% change as the ammonia level is not coming down below .50 for the last two days (it got up to 1.0 yesterday). I think she's trying to scratch on the bottom rocks and is very agitated. She'll swim to the top and then to the bottom, but isn't relaxing. She's attacking the floating thermometer as if she's mad at it and then skimming the top of the water with her mouth open. What the heck happened since yesterday???????

Sounds like she could very well have flukes - they are a pain in the butt, but curable. I cured two of my fish with the help of Toothless and Errrika and some prazi. Here is the link to diseases: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/disease.html or you can do a search and read old threads on the subject. Good luck.

Lachfa, where could she pick up these flukes? Her poor littel sides look so ragged where the scales are missing. I just tested the ammonia level and it's about .50 if I'm reading the color correctly. I just feel so bad for her. When I go over to her tank, she comes to the side as if she's asking for help and it's breaking my heart that I can't do anything. Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it.
Lynn

She could have brought them from the fish store. Let me find the link to my thread when I had them......off to search

I just did a search and back in March, someone suggeste a salt concentration of .3% or 1TBSP per gallon. I have it at 1TBSP/5gallons. Should I pour some more salt into the aquarium or would it burn her? I have salt, so that is something I could do right away. Thanks!!

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...=15885&hl=Angel

Read this - it's really long, but should cover everything if that is what is wrong with her. Sad to say I lost Angel this past weekend - she was pineconeing and I assume had dropsey.

I just added another TBSP of salt per 5 gallons to up the concentration a little, but would 1 per gallon make it into too strong a solution and be more like a dip than a medicinal dose?? Thanks everyone.

(the original amount was 1TBSP per 5 gallons)

You would now have a concentration level of .2%. Dont use 1 tablespoon per gallon, thats way too much. tomorrow add another tablespoon per 5 gallons and this will give you .3%
Keep it at this for a week and see if it helps her.
If she is trying to scratch her head then she may have gill flukes. Is she breathing more rapidly and trying to scratch her gills at all?

your not showing any nitrate levels, what are the levels if you tested from a cup your tap water?

Also, just making sure, you are not using table salt correct?

Don't forget to add salt when you do water changes also.

How is she doing?

Hi, Lachfa,
Well, I'm getting ready to do another water change because my ammonia was back up to 1.0 again this morning. I checked my tap water ammonia and it's at .0, so that's not the culprit. My nitrites and nitrates are still .0, so all is well there. I added another TBSP of salt yesterday to try and soothe her a little and Sandy suggested I add yet another today and that should be sufficient. She calmed down yesterday after I added the salt, ate well this morning, but is still a little more active than might be normal. I am ordering Medigold, Plazi?, and ProGold from the Goldfish Connection so I will have meds on hand. She's not bumping her thermometer like she did yesterday, but I just don't feel she's as peaceful as she should be. Her sides look like someone scraped them and took some scales off and her tail fins still have some white on the edges, although they don't look stringy and ragged as they did. I don't know if I should start the Pimafix again, use my Maracide I have on hand or what. I don't know if I would be able to go through all you did for your fish as it totally intimidates me and I honestly feel I don't know what I am doing. I'm so afraid of stressing her out even more. Do you think 25% water change is enough and should I start any meds yet or wait until the stuff comes from the GFC? Thanks so much for your concern, I really appreciate it. And thanks, Sandy, for your reply and suggestions so very much Oh, and Lachfa, I am SO sorry to hear about your Angel. It must have been heart breaking for you.

Sandy,
I'm sorry I didn't answer your questions right away, but I had to leave yesterday. 'Margaret' was bumping her floating thermometer like crazy yesterday, but isn't doing it today so far. Yesterday she was skimming the rocks on the bottom, so I don't know if she was trying to scratch her head or gills or doing something else. I know that a few days ago, it SEEMED that her left gill wasn't moving, but her right one was. They are now both moving, but being the novice that I am, I couldn't tell you if she is gasping for air or not. I haven't tested my tap water for nitrates, so do you think I should? Once again, thanks for your concern and reply.
Lynn

Oh, I forgot to mention that last night I saw her poo. It was very long and I would say two thirds of it was a long, thin white string and the other third was the color of her food and looked thicker and segmented. All in all, it had to be about two inches long or more. I went to get a piece of tissue so I could scoop it out and examine it, but by the time I got back into the room (about 20 seconds), it was gone, so I don't know if she ate it or what happened to it. I didn't know if this info could help any in her diagnosis.

I would be careful not to over medicate, just my opinion. The salt dips aren't that big of a deal, i freaked a little when I had to do my first one, but it was nothing. She sounds like she is doing better, hopefully you have comforted her. I did the bucket method, it was so much easier to do and I didn't lose my cycle (but it sounds like you don't have one yet). Since the tank is cycling that might be some added stress since she is already ill.

Thought I would give an update on Margaret. She was resting at the bottom when I came home this afternoon, but after I did my water change, she seemed to settle down. I added the 1TBSP./5 gallons again as Sandy suggested and right now she's swimming around a lot, but not darting and bumping the thermometer like she did yesterday. I don't like the looks of her tail again, as while it doesn't look frayed, it just looks so ragged. She keeps going to the top and tries to gulp air or so it seems. Then, little bubbles will come out of her mouth. She ate some peas for a treat, but I also noticed a long thin, white string trailing behind her. I'm just wondering if I should start the Pimafix again. I have ordered Plazi and Medigold this morning, but is there anything else I should do before it gets here? Thanks so much for your advice on this.
Lynn

Prazi - not Plazi

Do you know how long it will take to get the meds? Where are you located, maybe someone can get you some before then. The poo sounds like a bacterial infection. See the poop link: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html

I just got a notification that the meds had shipped. She is swimming very peacefully right now, but I did notice a long string of white poo trailing behind her awhile ago. If this is a bacterial infection, how do I treat it, and should I still use the Prazi in case it's flukes? I mean, how would I really know if she has flukes and would it harm her to treat it if she didn't? Right now, though, I'm concerned about this white poo and what I need to do to cure it. I've added 3TBSP/5gal. at this point, so I don't imagine I should add anymore salt. Thanks, Lachfa, I really appreciate it.

Treat her with the prazi, alot of people use it when they get new fish so they don't spread it to their other fish. You can bring a lot of nasty in from the pet store. To treat the bacterial infection feed her the medicated food when you get it. Mine get that now and then and seem to heal up quickly. I have been watching my fish close after losing Angel and one of them had the thin white poo and it cleared up in a few days but I am still feeding medicated food. Keep me posted. Glad I can help.

Hi,sorry to hear your fish isn't feeling so well.Lachfa has offered some good advice so far. I would continue the water changes while waiting for the Prazi,and Medi-Gold.About the salt,if your fish does have flukes,the salt is probably helping combat it somewhat.Just be careful when adding salt.You only replace the amount of salt that you take out in water for the water change,if that makes sense,and you can't add the full doses all at one time. There are a few good articles on how to use salt,and do the Prazi-which I would definately follow through on,and read.Also treat the fish with the Medi-Gold for a period of 14 days.That will help any bacterial problems ,& help keep secondary infections from setting in.Good luck!

Hi, Sharon,
Thanks so much for your reply. I have only been adding the amount of salt for the amount of water that I take out and am at 3TBSP/5gal at this point. I added the last TBSP/5gal yesterday and it really seemed to calm her down, although I didn't do it gradually:( I have been testing my water every day and the only thing that I can't get down to .0 is the ammonia. After my 25% water change, it's still at 5.0. My meds won't get here until the 27th, but so far yesterday and today, she is swimming peacefully and doesn't seem to be in too much distress. She's also eating well. I'll do anything to get her well. I named her Margaret after Margaret 'hot lips' Hoolihan in the Mash series because she is a gold Oranda with black fins, but her little mouth is heavily outlined in black. Her eyes are also lined in black and when you look at her, it's like a little clown face instead of a fish. Just too cute!!! Soooo, I have really become endeared to her and want to do everything I can to get her well and back out in her 100gallon pond with her buddies, although after keeping her in a tank inside, she just may have to become an inside pet Once again, thanks so much and have a wonderful day.
Lynn

Hi Lynn,Glad to see your fish is feeling somewhat better. I know that it was in your pond,and that you put it in a hospital tank.I'm going to assume that you have just set that tank up,and that the reason the Nitrites/NitrAtes are reading 0 is because the tank hasn't cycled yet. As for your ammonia reading,I'm thinking that you meant to say 0.50 instead of 5.0? For a new tank,ammonia levels will spike for about ten days or so until you get a Nitrite Reading.If I'm not mistaken,I think you said that your PH was 7.4,and with ammonia,anything over 7.2 can make ammonia even more toxic,so it's important to test daily & continue with the small water changes to get it as low as you can.Do you have an airstone or bubblewand in the tank? That will help provide extra aeration for your fish.Alot of it's eratic behavior could have been caused by the ammonia so by continuing with the water changes,you may see some definate improvement on his behavior. By the way,Margaret sounds like a really cute fish!

Oops!! I did mean .5 Sharon, not 5.0. Whew! that would be quite a difference. So, I gather from what you are saying, that the elevated ammonia is just part of the cycling process. I will continue to do the water changes and treat her for flukes and bacteria with the Prazi and Medigold that's on its way, and hopefully this story will have a happy ending. Her tail, dorsal fin and scales still look on the ragged side, but I don't see anymore Ich, thank goodness. The Medigold will hopefully take care of that long white poo, and the Prazi will take care of any flukes she might have, and I think that will solve all our problems for now, and I can relax a little. I was so overwhelmed when all this started because I didn't know what I was looking for or at, didn't know how to treat it, and was SO afraid of losing this adorable little creature. But, thanks to wonderful people like you, Lachfa and Sandy, I am a little calmer and am learning the process as I go. I will keep you updated and hopefully I won't have to post anymore half-hysterical pleas for help. I am loving these darling little fish and am enjoying meeting all of you and learning all this great stuff. Thanks again.
Lynn

if she does have flukes and was in the pond with other fish it is very likely they have them too....and they are in the pond....I am not sure where you are located and what the weather is.....does anyone know if the cold will kill the flukes off?

Lachfa I am pretty sure that cold water doesn't kill them off. From what I know of them, they are only suseptible to salt or Prazi from Goldfish connection.

So far my other three Orandas and my Shubunkin are all doing great in the pond. I live in Florida, so the water hasn't gotten that cold, especially since I just started this pond about three and a half weeks ago. If they have flukes or anything else, I'm not aware of it. Poor Margaret is the only one that is sick. Now, I did lose two small orandas about the time she got sick, but so far none of the others have been affected. (knock on wood). But what you say about the pond being infected makes sense, so I think I will treat them all. This way, when Margaret is ready to go home, the pond will be clean, that is if I let her go home I'm still worried about her. Her one side just looks terrible and lately she is standing almost on end trying to, what looks like to me, eat off the rocks in the bottom of the tank. I don't know if she is scratching or eating, but I haven't seen her do this before. I've started giving her some peas in the afternoon and was wondering if you all think this is okay? I did another 25% water change today, and the ammonia still remains at .50. It is so frustrating. Well, I'll keep you all posted and hopefully the meds will come early. Thanks again, everyone.
Lynn

Hi, everyone,
Well, my poor Margaret has been through so much. Thanks to all of you, I got the Ich and Fin Rot cleared up, but the other day, she developed fuzzy, white spots on her tail and dorsal fin. She has a streak on her side that looks like dried scales at the top and skin without scales the rest of the way down. I don't think it has that same fuzzy stuff on it. Before my water change today, she seemed to want to float to the top, but could still swim downward with ease. She's eating well, pellets in the morning and peas in the afternoon. I'm still doing my 25% water change everyday and today, as always, the numbers are the same. They are:
PH 7.6
Ammonia - 1.0 before water change everyday, and after change it's .50
Nitrite - .0
Nitrate - .0
Now my black Oranda in the pond also has these same white, fuzzy spots on his fins and side. My ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all at .0, but the pond's PH is darker than the color at 8.8. What am I doing wrong??? The salt is at 3TBSP/5gal in my 10gallon tank, and 2TBSP/5gallon in my 100gallon pond. Should I start my Pimafix again??? The Medigold and Prazi I ordered should be here on Wednesday and I don't know if the Pimafix would mix with them. All I wanted was some fish for my pond and it just seems like one thing after another is happening and I want so badly to get my babies well so I can just enjoy them. Please help me get this right Thanks so much for all the help you have given me in the past, and have the patience to give me in the future.
Lynn

I'm really getting worried about Margaret. I don't know if I'm being paranoid or not, but she just doesn't look healthy. She has these white, fuzzy spots on her tail and dorsal fin and the black spots on her sides look bigger. She just doesn't act like she's well or happy even though I have not seen any pineconing or swelling. She ate peas this morning and is scavenging around on the bottom as I speak. I'm hoping she's trying to eat, but she could be scratching. Trying to keep this 10 gallon tank in perfect harmony is getting to be thankless job as I just can't get the ammonia to .0. Everyday it is 1.0, with everything else being .0, and everyday I do a 25% water change which only brings it down to .50. I am going to do a 30% change today to see if that helps, but I'm wondering if she wouldn't be better off in my pond again since that water is perfect except for a high PH? My other oranda in there and my Shubunkin also have a couple of these fuzzy spots, but otherwise are healthy. Should I just put Margaret back in with her buddies and feed everyone the Medigold and treat with the Prazi when it comes? Should I start the Pimafix I have and will it mix with the other meds when they get here? Right now I have an elderly mother in a nursing home after breaking her hip that I have to care for everyday, and this schedule of water changes and the sheer upset of watching this fish is starting to get to me. I never thought I was in for these kinds of problems when I innocently bought a few fish for my pond. I need to fix this and do it for all my fish as soon as possible as I'm starting to wear down. If I could just see some real progress that kept getting better, I'd feel better, but it just seems to stay the same day after day. Does anyone have any advice? I've got the 10 gallon at 3TBPS salt per 5 gallons. There are nothing but some rocks in the bottom, and I feel so sorry for her with nothing but herself in the tank and not feeling good to boot. Please help me get her well because everytime I go over to her tank it looks as if she's asking me for something and I just don't have a clue as to what to do next. Thanks again.
Lynn

Lynn, it might be that Margaret has contracted fungus disease, since you described it as white, fuzzy growth. I would keep trying to lower the ammonia in the tank. I havn't had any experiances with fungus before, so I can't be certain in diagnosing it or recommending a cure. I do know that there are treatments that can be purchased at pet stores which contain a description of the diseases they treat on their label; you could try and find something that fits your fish's ailment description. (I have never used Prazi; does it treat fungus and bacteria?) As mentioned before, I have never dealt with fungus or many other diseases so I WOULD wait for someone else with more experiance to second my opinion on this topic.

Hope everything works out for you and Margaret.

Thanks, Roano, for your concern. I just don't know what to do. I don't know if I should do a complete water change and start over since it doesn't look like this tank is cycling? I just tested it again after doing a 25% change just a few hours ago, and it's up to 1.0 again. GRRRRR!!!! I'm starting to panic as she just swims in one spot looking at me and not around the tank like she was doing. I just put her in a holding tank with about 1-2 gallons of water, 2qts of the tank water and the rest treated water from the tap. The PH and temp were okay and almost matched, and I'm on my way to get more salt. BUT, should I just take all the water out of this tank and start over again with good, clean water?? My meds should be here tomorrow, but this water doesn't look as clean as it did when I first put her in it about a week ago. I HAVE TO HELP this fish! I have become attached and she does nothing but hang at the side of the tank looking at me. I even transported her by hand into the holding tank and she didn't mind a bit. I've been hand feeding her and she loves it. Not because she can't eat on her own, but because she is just a tame, darling, endearing creature. I just need to know if I should start over with clear water and PimaFix? If anyone out there can help me, I would be so indebted to you. Lachfa, are you out there? Can you tell me where to go from here? Surely, this ammonia can't be good for her. I know she has some kind of fungus and that is why I need to know if I should start the Pimafix? The Medigold will take care of bacteria, but will it take care of fungus, too?

Sounds like cotton wool (fungus) desease and ammonia burns. And taking a fish from a pond into a tank, especially one as small as a 10 gallon, allready over stocked with other fish, are causing her -and the others- alot of stress. (This is also the reason the ammonia wont go down, that tank is being so overwhelmed, it cant process ammonia, you need at least 30 gallons for the amount of fish listed, actually alot more, as shubunkins need more then the 10gallon per fish rule)

She needs to be in a much much much larger tank, or back in the pond, but if you put her back in the pond, she will give Cotton to the other fish in it. You have to treat her for the velvet immediatley, before putting her with other fish.

Answer the questions in the white box above so we can get a better idea of the setup. We will be able to help you further.

But whut i would do for the moment is treat her for Cotton with a broad spectrum fungus medication for the time being, and do a 50% -or more- water change every day, if you cant get her into a bigger tank or a 10 gallon by herself. The others need to be treated for Cotton as well.

I'm wondering if I should get some of that Ammolock? Do you think that would help? Also, should I get that Stress Coat since she's probably stressed? I promise when I learn all of this stuff, I won't be so hysterical and ask so many questions, but right now I feel so helpless and that is what is making me nuts. Thanks so much to all who are able to reply to me.
Lynn

Im not sure about which meds are which, i just have a broad spectrum fungus med called fungus eliminator, ahahaha. just read the label. Answer the stuff in the box above, well be able to pinpoint exactly whut is going on. And no worries about the questions. Our fish are just as important to us as yours is to you, and we are all frantic when a problem arises. Best of luck Lynn!

Hi, Meg,
Margaret is in the tank by herself. The other fish are in my 100 gallon pond in my backyard. The PH is about 7.6, Ammonia .50 - 1.0, Nitrite .0, Nitrate .0, and temp about 76 - 78. I feed her a few pellets in the morning and peas in the afternoon for a snack. Everytime I pour new water in, I net any debri that starts floating around. If you think a 50% will help, I will be glad to do it. Anything to help this little baby. I have Medigold and Prazi arriving tomorrow and will start that, but I don't know if it helps fungus. I do have Pimafix on hand and maybe I should get a heater too. I am using AquaSafe to treat my water and was wondering if I still have to let it set for 24hrs? Thanks so much for your help, Meg, but she's been in this tank by herself since I put her in it a week ago. Sorry if I confused you.
Lynn

oh, I forgot to tell you that I'm using a Top Fin 5/15 filter. I'm going to run to the store right now to get some more salt. Is there anything else I should have on hand that I should get tonight? Thanks, again.

Lynn I combined your threads, it is too confusing for everyone to have mulitple threads going on the same fish problem.
We can help you from this one.

I think it would be a good idea to go thru and list what Margaret's original problem was and why you moved her to the hospital tank.

I agree that the black spots are probably ammonia burns, and the reason they are getting bigger is the ammonia problem you are having.
Test the tap water to make sure it doesn't have ammonia in it.

The fuss can be fungus or a parasite, the best thing for that right now is focusing on "pristine" water conditions.

Answering all the questions at the top again will help since this thread is getting longer, it is hard to go back and re read everything.

Focus on water quality and getting it under control, that is the single most important thing you can do to help her.

Hi, Laurie,
I'm sorry I started another thread, but I guess I got a little desparate tonight. I just came back from the LFS with AmmoLock, Prime, Melafix, an air stone, and plenty of salt. Okay, my numbers have been the same for about a week now.
PH is about 7.6 - 7.8
Temp.- between 76 and 78
Ammonia - 1.0, then after 25% water change, done daily, . 50 (can't get it below that)
Nitrites - .0
Nitrates - .0
10 gallon tank, 5.15 Top Fin filter
I have a solution of 3TBSP/5gallon of salt.
She originally was lethargic and not eating so I moved her from my pond at the suggestion of the LFS. Brought her in and noticed she had Ich and Fin Rot on her tail. Treated with salt and the Ich went away, then I administered PimaFix for a few days and the Tail Rot seemed much better. She started eating and swimming around normally instead of staying in one place at the top. Then two later, she developed a few of these fuzzy, white spots on her tail and one on her dorsal fin. She also developed black spots on her sides and under her chin. On one side, it looks like there are scales missing, but it doesn't look fuzzy. I feed Wardely's floating pellets (soaked), in the morning and peas in the afternoon. However, she has only had peas for the last 36hrs. because it looked like she was trying to float to the top yesterday. Today that seems resolved. The water just looks dirty even though I change it everyday and add salt to replace what I took out. Should I use the AmmoLoc?? I forgot to mention that I always make sure the temp is almost perfectly matched before I add the new water and use AquaSafe to dechlorinate it. She just doesn't look like she's feeling well and doesn't swim around like she used to. Thanks again, Laurie, I hope this helps.

Sorry Lynn, i wasnt following the first thread, and I just gathered the 10 gallon with margeret an oranda and a shubie.

From whut I have gathered (some one might allready have posted this now that i see it is a big thread) is that your tank isnt cycling fast enough and your fish is overwhelming it with ammonia.

I do think 50% water change will help, You say you do 25% and it cuts the ammonia by half, well a 50% should take out that ammonia, and more then 50% should knock it down for a bit longer, leave your gravel untouched, as it needs to build up benificial bacteria. (which will be displaced by the extreme over load of water being changed) Eventually, the bacteria should sort itself out and be able to take out the ammonia before it overwhelmes the tank, until then, you have to do it.

As Laurie said, you should focus on pristine water for the moment. Your fish wont get better if her amune system is depressed due to stress and bad water.

Whut I would do is go out and get a 5-10 gallon bucket, and put your water in that tonight, treat it , and let it sit with a towel over it (this is to keep things from falling into it) and use it tommorrow for the water change. Then afterwards, fill it up and treat it for the next days water change, ect ect ect. This allows you to always have fresh prestine water, allready at room temperature, handy at all times.
This really comes in handy, and most fish owners do this, as most water these days is treated for human consumption, and all chlorine and junk evaporates over 24 hours.

I wouldnt worry about the heater now, just get that water going good, and the other problems will be alot easier to fix. So dont worry about the heater until all is well in the tank, over medicating and over heating bad water could make the situation worse, not better.

Note on the Fungus: You say the other fish are exibiting sings of cotton fungus as well? It could of been in your pond and now that the fish is in a tank under a stressing situation, she has had an outbreak of it (due to stressed amune systems). The best thing to do would be to find a fungus med. (not sure whut praxi is, lol, i live under a rock, i dont get anything like that up here) So just read the label, it will say. Look for one that says Cotton fungus. I have a 8 dollar bottle of Fungus Eliminator, and its a broad spectrum fungus med, so if i am not sure whut it is, this will more then likely help it (if not heal it) until i can pinpoint ecactly whut it is and work on that.

Best of Luck with Margaret, Lynn! - Meg

PS: Id follow Laurie's advice and make sure theres no amonia in your water, that could be the problem as well as to why you cant get it under control. Never even thought of that one until it was mentioned. Theres a good group of people here at Kokos, lol they taught me whut i know, and i am always learning more!

Thanks so much, Meg, I really appreciate your help. I have tested my tap water and it doesn't have any ammonia in it. Do you think I should use some AmmoLoc one time to see if it helps if the 50% change doesn't make it any better? Also, the Prazi I was talking about is used to treat flukes. Margaret was swimming erratically the other day and seemed irritated, so some of the members suggested she might have flukes and to buy some Prazi and treat her with it. I am waiting on that and some Medigold to arrive tomorrow. I will immediately start her on the Medigold and then treat for flukes. If she doesn't have flukes, will it hurt her??? Once again, thanks for your wonderful suggestions, I will take them to heart and start doing that right away.
Lynn

That's ok Lynn we all get "desperate" about our fish, it is just easier for us to follow in one thread........no biggie.

Now I would say that if the other fish are not showing any signs of any of her illnesses then treat her in the 10 gal, but if they are it may be best to treat everyone in the pond. It is harder, but safer for her than in the cycling tank.

Have you tested the tap for ammonia yet???? This is something good to know.
If it comes back 0, then I would back down her feeding. Experts tell us to always feed very light in a cycling tank, because any left over food goes into waste...........then ammonia.
So once a day feeding is best. If she is having "floaty" issues you can alternate peas and flakes on different days. Even fasting her a day here and there is ok.

Prime is a wonderful water conditioner, no need to leave it out all night.
When you do a water change and ammonia is still high then do another. You may have to do them twice daily to keep them under 0.5.
Really only doing this and using salt will help most everything. Many conditions are aggravated by bad water and the fish's own immune system can fight them off in good water............make sense???

Stay with it, I know it is hard, but the water is the most important thing.

Thanks so much, Laurie. There is no ammonia in my tap water, so I will continue with 50% water changes or may just put her back in the pond as you suggested, as I have seen some of the other fish with these white, fuzzy spots on them. I don't intend to keep her in the tank anyway since it was only purchased as a hospital tank when she stopped eating and swimming around in the pond. The only problem I'm having with my pond is that I find the PH is very high. The rest of the numbers are at .0, and I can't imagine what's going on with the PH. There is a 2TBSP salt/5 gallons in the pond and all the fish seem very happy and are eating and swimming well, but I don't know how this PH would affect Margaret. So, I am going to depend on all of you to tell me what you think I should do, pond or tank until she's well. Thanks again, everyone, you are all wonderful!!!!!!
Lynn:)

I think that some people are forgetting that both the pond and the ten gal. are NEW Set-ups. Neither one of them have been cycled yet. You will continue to have some Ammonia level,until the Pond/Tank go into the next step of cycling which is Nitrites.By then,your Ammonia will probably be reading 0,and your Nitrites are what you'll be fighting to keep lowered. For tank to cycle,you have to have ammonia that turns into Nitrites,that turn into NitrAtes.By doing water changes daily,you are keeping ammonia from getting out of control.-you want to keep it at a lower number until the next step.All the problems that you're having are probably because you're trying to cycle a ten gal. tank,and a pond with fish in it. The cycling process is extremely hard on fish.You hear alot of people lose fish at this time,and that is why. I personally would continue what you were originally doing.You have the Salt in there,and you're doing 25 % water changes daily to take ammonia from 1 to 0.50.If you want to take that number down a little more then you're going to have to do a litttle bigger water change.Taking 25% out with ammonia at 1 is always going to come back around0.50.Your continuous 25%water changes & testing is showing you that. The white spots on fins are probably a result of this all. if You start adding all these Meds to your tank, what's going to happen is that you're going to kill all the bio-bugs that you have made so far for cycling your tank.Starting over with all new fresh water in the tank will just bring you back to square 1. Cycling a tank is a slow process unless you have bio-bugs from other means. Now don't quote me on this because I'm extremely tired & I have a headache,but I think even though salt helps your fish get through this,it also makes the cycling part slower. All I can tell you is that I'm no expert on cycling a tank.I know that more people lose fish from "New Tank Syndrom",and I know that I've never lost a fish this way. You will know when your tank is finally cycled.Your ammonia & nitrites will be zero,and you will have some Numbers reading on your NitrAtes. By the way,you don't see Ammonia burns until AFTER they start healing.All those Black spots that are showing up where your fish was burned by the ammonia.The black spots are now showing you that those burns are now starting to heal. If I forgot anything ,please ask again.This is a long post,and I have a short memory. All I can tell you Lynn,is put a seatbelt on and hang in there.Cycling a tank is not fun.It will get uglier before it gets better.The more you are prepared for it,the easier you will handle it. *Finger's crossed.*

P.S. I don't understand your pond readings...That's a new pond.You are having readings of 0 Ammonia--0Nitrites---0 NitrAtes. When a tank pond goes through the cycling process you see number's for Ammonia/Nitrites. When its done cycling-you see those two reading Zero,and your NitrAtes having some number reading.......

Thanks so much, Sharon. Do you feel I should go ahead and do the 50% change instead of the 25% I've been doing? I hope your headache gets better, I know they are a real nuisance. I'll go ahead and feed her the Medigold when it gets here in case there is any bacterial infection going on and keep the tank salted. I've been advised to treat her for flukes, also, which I will do to ensure that she doesn't have those either. But I will hold off on the Pimafix and hope that the white fuzzies go away as I get the water under control. Thanks, again, and I appreciate your reply so much.
Lynn

Oh, I forgot to ask. Should I scrape the walls of the tank to try to get the tank to look a little cleaner? It almost looks as if a film is developing as it doesn't look as clear and clean as it did.

Personally,when I'm cycling a tank,I don't worry about anything but the water changing.My logic is that the faster it happens the faster the cycle finishes.If there's algae forming onglass that helps the process.If its really bugging you clean the front glass and leave the rest alone, This of course is only my logic. As for the Fluke Treatment,alot of people tend to treat new fish with a Prazi treatment these days. Just seems like Flukes have really been around alot,or maybe they've always been here only we didn't realize it until now.I would rather be safe than sorry,and would personally go with the treatment for them.Is your fish still doin that weird behavior,or has he stopped since you've stepped up on water changes?Thing is,that you're treating tank with Salt which may help with the flukes,it just may not be enough.