Hi, Dataguru - just wanted to let you know I started the tricide neo treatment after talking again to Dr. Tepper, who gave me the go - ahead; it was either this or bring her in for a hospitalization, since her tail is now deteriorating quickly. I used about 1/4 gallon of solution in a baggie, and had her in for at least 3 minutes. She took it very well, and came right up to me to get her pea afterwards. Will do the same for the next two nights, and am also trying to get 'before' and 'after' pics, both for the board and for Dr. Tepper. I'm having a hard time with those, though, since her tail is absolutely clear where it's being eroded and her rinse bucket is white! Anyway - a scary process for me, but it seems to be going well so far. She's really a pretty mellow fish.

Polly is still having probs, huh?

Poor girl. I hope this tricide neo does the trick for you.


Keep us updated on this..........


Paul

First update - I have emailed Dr. Tepper a couple of pictures, which I'd also like to post here if I can figure out how. Polycarp's tail seems a little better, but is still quite jagged, with very little healling. But i guess that might take awhile? What's worrying me more is that she now has a red spot on her tummy, just between her pectoral fins. The spot is raised and it looks uncomfortable. Is this the beginning of septicemia? If so, what on earth can I do about it? And if not, what can i do about it, also, since she must be aggravating herself by sitting on the bottom so much.

At least she's not flipped over any more, and her appetite is good. But I just don't know what to think. The results of the tricide have not been dramatically positive.

First update - I have emailed Dr. Tepper a couple of pictures, which I'd also like to post here if I can figure out how. Polycarp's tail seems a little better, but is still quite jagged, with very little healling. But i guess that might take awhile? What's worrying me more is that she now has a red spot on her tummy, just between her pectoral fins. The spot is raised and it looks uncomfortable. Is this the beginning of septicemia? If so, what on earth can I do about it? And if not, what can i do about it, also, since she must be aggravating herself by sitting on the bottom so much.

At least she's not flipped over any more, and her appetite is good. But I just don't know what to think. The results of the tricide have not been dramatically positive.

Sorry for the double post! It was taking forever; I got an error message, I tried again - should have just waited.

keep a very close eye on the red spot and if you see that it is growing larger, something will need to be done..........

I wish there were more I could do. I guess it's going to be a waiting game from here on out.


Keep us updated on Poly.

Thanks, Paul - I am a bit discouraged, and was not able to call the vet, but I now have a theory on the red spot, which had faded and was looking less inflamed this a.m., but which I'm afraid may be worse again tomorrow-

You see, it seems Polycarp can no longer tolerate any dry food of any kind - not even Rick Hess's. I gave her two small progold pellets tonight, then went to my sister's, and when I came back, she was swimming frantically again, and I saw her flip at the top of the tank when she stopped. Rinsed one of her old clay pots (which had held the anacharis) and put it in there, hoping she'll learn to anchor herself in it and get some rest - in the meantime, it's no breakfast for her in the morning, and a pea at night after her final treatment. When she flips, her little tummy might dry out right about where that spot is, as it's the highest point - also why it's where she puts pressure when bottom sitting. But obviously the flipping is worse and more stressful for her. It must be taking a lot of the energy that might otherwise go into healing, too.

Anyway, I'm going to try to call Dr. Tepper tomorrow with this news, etc. In the meantime, I've prepared a couple of pics for the web and will try to attach them.

Thanks again for all your help. (I'm sure Poly would thank you, too, if she knew about it.)

here's the second pic (how do you attach more than one?!)

RIGHT! I should have figured that out......

Well, poor girl seems like she gonna need to go on a gel food diet, huh? There is a very good recipe for it in the feeding section of the board. Maybe you can even incorporate some of your pro-gold and/or medi-gold into it somehow.........

Keep us posted, Mary.

I'll look up the gel food recipe, Paul, since the doctor agrees that changing her diet and keeping a close eye on her are the best way to go for now. An internal bacterial infection and/or virus are also possibilities, but Dr. Tepper thought it very likely (as i'd suggested) that the flipping was causing her stress and that she was tearing up her own tail with her frantic swimming. So he'd like me to maintain the water quality and change her diet and see how that goes.

It's been nothing but peas, frozen bloodworms, and a little shrimp from our dinner for the last two days, and I haven't seen her flipped again, though she still does bottom-sit. Her tail is no better, but the red spot is gone, and she seems a little calmer. No sure when, or whether, I will dare try her on some of Rick's food again. I *just* bought two bags of it, too! Anyway, she's a little bit better, and that's a relief. I do wish her tail would heal, though.

Sounds like the tricide is working on the finrot.
I just finished treating Bugsy for costia, and he lost a good bit of tail. here's what his tail looks like at the moment.
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/bugsyCostia0503.html
There are also pics of Lumpy's finrot here:
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Lumpy.html

I also think adding acidophilus and no other grain-based ingredients to the gel would be good. If you do add medigold to the gel, wait till it's not hot. Here are my gel recipes:
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html

So is the the red area from being exposed to the air?
Could you describe what it looks like?
A pic of the area would be nice.

Hi, Dataguru! Thanks for all the pics and recipes - I think I will need to make some more gel food, since I want to be sure my little one gets a balanced diet. Doctor Tepper said to make sure she got a lot of protein, with occassional greens, and to keep away from starch. Sorry the pics I posted are not so clear; it was very hard to get a good one of her tail, but the red spot is just visible between her pectoral fins in pic #2. It was roundish and a little raised, and has now completely vanished. I am really, really hoping that all this complex of problems doesn't indicate an internal bacterial infection (or, worse yet, a virus) that is resistant to baytril. But in any case a good diet and clean water can only help her, so that's what I'm working on. I'm glad you think the tricide neo worked; I'm just not sure, since she still has two long rips in her tail! Costia sounds like an awful bug, and I'm glad your little one is doing better.

Oh good... glad to hear the red spot went away!

As long as the fin is not red, you should be fine. You'll note in Lumpy and Coco's finrot pics, the areas got red, then sloughed off leaving the rays. then the rays broke off and left a white fin edge. I think if that's what it looks like (no fuzzies or redness) it should heal fine. Also, last week, Stripe had a tear in her dorsal fin that extended about 2/3s of the way down the fin. I didn't see any red/white areas on that and it's healed in a little over a week. amazing!

On the gel, any of the recipes would work fine. Just add a little extra fish to increase the protein levels. They're all up in the high end on protein levels cuz veggies contain quite a bit of protein on their own (which is less digestable than protein from fish sources). I don't add any grains to my gel recipes cuz I think grains contribute to Lumpy flipping.

How's the poop looking?

Quick update - no more red spot - yay! And she hasn't flipped for several days, though she still does do a fair bit of bottom sitting. Have given her exclusively: frozen bloodworms (thawed), cooked shrimp cut very small, thawed peas, and once a little cooked brocolli. She's eating everything eagerly - seems to have a little trouble finding the worms. Tonight, for the first time in nearly a week, I gave her one progold pellet, and she ate that with no ill effects. So that's all good - I may be able to mix a few progold pellets in with the gel when i get around to making it, or alternate progold with wetter foods. But there's still little or no healing on the tail, which worries me. Will try to get another pic. Thanks for all your help, as always!

Cool.

So what do you mean by little or no healing on the tail?

My moor's tail looks better. Stilll has white edges, just not as pronounced. no redness. Need to get some pics.

Well - that's the thing that's so weird about this rot. Since she got back from the vet, I haven't seen any bloody bits at all, and it doesn't look in the least like the 'classic' fin rot Gilbert had, where the entire edge of his tail went white on the outside with a red line on the inside, and the whold fin was being eaten away. Instead, her fins just look ragged, as though something's been nibbling at the edges. The nibbled bits look white to clear, and looked a little worse, if anything, after the tricide neo treatment. Today, looking at the small bit of 'zig-zag' fin which I'd hoped was joining back to her tail, I saw something like a long thread hanging from it. I believe this was a bit of the fin itself, and she's losing these little stringy bits - I've never really seen anything like this.

But the good news is that she is eating well, and, though her balance isn't perfect, she hasn't either floated or flipped in the past week.

Will try to post a couple of my recent pictures later. Thanks again, and I'm glad your guy is doing so well.

Well, as of this evening, the 2 newbies were flashing and Stripe and Coco were twitching their fins, so something's going on again. I PPed the tank tonite and will try another scrape and scope in the morning to try and figure out what's going on.

Yea... I'd bet it was a ray. When Coco's tail went south, it got angry, the fin tissue sloughed off and left the rays sticking out. the rays broke off and then all that was left was a white edge.

That's cool re the eating well and not flipping.

Hi, Dataguru - sorry to hear about the flashing, etc, and I hope the pp will have taken care of it. Parasites are nasty! In fact, I'm still a little worried that Poly may have had (or still has) some, in spite of all the salt (including a salt dip, on Paul's advice) I subjected her to, and in spite of Dr. Tepper not having found any. I certainly hope your fish will have shaken those nasties off.

Anyway, trying to attach a pic or two - these are from a couple of days ago-

Poor girl.......


She looks sad. But her dorsal is up! So she must have been feeling well, huh? I sure hope so, shes been through so much already.

You're right, Paul, she does look sad! But her dorsal has been up most of the time, which is good, I think, and she certainly doesn't look as stressed or scared as she did a couple of weeks ago. She just doesn't seem to have much energy (somethimes i'm afraid it could be simple loneliness/boredom, though I try to keep her tank conditions nice). Anyway, here's the second picture, which is the best one I've been able to get of the weird state of her tail:
(and thanks again to both of you)

Quick update again - spoke to Dr. Tepper again, and he thought it might be worth trying to swab the tail with iodine or else dipping it in an antibacterial dip. So I tried it, (it being dabbing her tail with iodine on a q-tip) and am again amazed at how well she took it - I really need to do it better next time, which means better disposable gloves, and i have to *dip* her tail in fresh tank water before letting her swim in a recovery bath. I think she's a pretty tough little fish, and I 'm still amazed I didn't get iodine in her gills - at least, I hope i didn't. I am to call the Doctor again in a week, so will let you all know how this goes - he compared the fin damage to bedsores, saying that, even if our previous treatments had cured the original rot, her tail couldn't heal because she was always aggravating it. That made sense to me. Honestly, I won't mind if she still has the one split in her tail - most fish don't have fused tails, after all! - provided the deteriorations stops! Anyway, her balance is good, her eyes are clear, and she is still holding her dorsal up

Dorsal's up and I don't see any redness. Life is good.

well the itching here was velvet. I'm working on treating it now.
Pics of Bugsy's tail on 4/17 are here: http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/bugsyCos...503.html#050417
(His tail originally went south on 3/31)

The doctor was VERY right about comparing some bacterial infections to bedsore. I have witnessed this effest a few times. I believe that I even suggested that bottom sitting might have been one of the causes of her tail problems (in the beginning).

I've got my fingers crossed for you!


Betty,

Sounds great! hopefully you PP'ed all those little nasties into total anhialation!

Unfortunately, she was worse again today. I don't know whether the stress of my trying to get iodine on her tail brought the rot roaring back, but she has another (small) semicircular bitten-out bit, with a slightly raised whitish edge, and on the other side a small part of her fin looks as if someone had been pulling the selvadge (sp) on a piece of cloth - just the rays sticking out, like warp, with no weft between them. This is on the inward-curving part of her tail fin, if you know what i mean, not the tips where she'd had rot before. I don't know what to do! There was also just a little bit of dorsal clamping after I fed her. I do wish I knew what this bug was and how to kill it without killing my poor little fish. I'm upset!

I'd think if it wwere bacterial the tricide should have kicked it.
So do you actually see any red areas?
Is your pH ok?

When I tested last night (after panicking on and off for about 1/2 hour, wondering what to do, and calling the Dr, I decided I'd better at least test the water!) - anyway, when I tested, I had no ammonia, no nitrites, and the pH seemed, of all things, to have climbed a bit - looked like it was around 8. I did notice that she didn't find all her brocolli the last time I gave her some, and the water then got a little foamy - but no bad smell, and, as I said, all the parameters tested normal. I'm really starting to wonder about skin flukes, which, at this point, is the only parasite I haven't treated for - her gills look pretty good to me and seem to be a good color. No swimming problems any more in spite of the rot. I may try swabbing and/or dipping the newly eroded areas tonight. There is no redness at all anywhere on her tail, but there are white areas. The tips where I got the iodine now look completely clear and smooth - is this a good thing?

Very confused and frustrated! Am now calling the doctor, and will let you know what he says.

Paul, the bedsore analogy made a great deal of sense to me, too - in fact, I could see that a lot of the initial rot was exactly where her tail touched the bottom - but these new areas aren't contact areas at all. I feel like pulling my hair out!

Yes, all along, I have suspected parasites to be part of the equation.

Fortunately, since you have been utilizing salt here and there, chilodonella, oodinium and trichodina shouldn't be in the mix (since they are highly succeptable to salt). On the other hand, there are several parasites that could be responsible. Costia and flukes are the very first two that come to mind. Fortunately, again, scrapes will often reveal the answer to that question. Your doc should be very well equipped to find them if they are indeed there.

To treat either parasite, I highly suggest salt dips be administered with whatever treatment you choose. Of course, praziquantel (flukes) and malachite green/formalin (costia) are the best treatments for them. If malachite green/formalin seems a little too harsh for her, there are other treatments effective against most costia.


So, are you going to see if your doc can perform a good thorough scrape exam on her? If so, I highly suggest him using clove oil (or another anasthetic) so that he can do them without her flopping around and possibly harming herself.

Truthfully, it seems like Dr. Tepper should have already performed a culture and sensetivity (as well as thorough scrapes/exams) of the possible bacteria/parasite in question. Has he done this? Or is this a bit too expensive to do? I'm not a vet but it seems that this is the very first thing he hould have done/suggested if he were suspecting a bacterial (or parasitic) infection. Especially one as tempermental as this.........


Paul

So how's it going?

Thanks for asking, Betty! Because i did manage to talk to the vet again today. He told me an eroded appearance was to be expected after swabbing with iodine if there was any diseased tissue. The dead tissue would slough off, and this really had to happen before healing could take place. That, he thinks, is what I have been seeing. Since she is swimming and eating well, he doesn't think she is in drastic shape at all at this point, but he said the dead and diseased tissues were giving the bacteria that attacked her in the first place a safe haven, so he wants me to keep up with the iodine a couple more times and, again, keep the water very clean. I swabbed her once more today - she and I are both getting better at this process, but it is not fun for either of us. This time I noticed little or no further erosion, so I'm hoping i won't need to do it again. Still no red parts, and she's still got her dorsal up most of the time; she's also not bottom sitting any more, as far as I can see. But i just wish I could finally see some healing!

Paul, I know the doctor scraped her for parasites when we first visited, but I don't know what he did about a bacteria culture. i think he believes it's *just* a resistant strain or aeromonas (sp?) - not that that's not bad enough! I'm really not seeing any more infected areas at this point, I think, and based on what the doctor said today, I should have expected to see some fin (or rather, tail) loss after the tricide neo dip, let alone the iodine. And that's exactly what I saw. I've just never been through anything like this before - i've never seen such a persistent rot - and it's a bit scary. Anyway, I'll keep you posted.

Betty, how are your guys doing now? (B.T.W., I made Poly some gel food today - she seemed to like it well enough, but she likes everything!)

That makes sense. After I peroxided Bugsy is when his tail went south. That had to be because the tissue was already not happy. I can't imagine the tricide not kicking any bacteria's butt cuz of the potentiators in it.

Mine are doing ok. The formalin/malachite green didn't clear the velvet. So I'm doing a week of PP. They've had two days of 3ppm PP now and will have two days off before the next PP treatment. The veins in Stripe's finnage were really dilated last nite after I finished the PP. Seems less red today. Everyone's acting ok, so hopefully the PP and 1 micron filters will do the trick this time around.

Oh great! now we got resistant strains of oodinium running around! What next, parasitic daphnia or something???


Im glad poly is doing better. Hope this will come to an end once and for all.....

meeee toooo! LOL

Hi, guys - iIjust sent two pics to the doctor, and I am going to post at least the most recent one here so you can see what you think. I've swabbed her three times so far, and every time she has lost more tissue. At this point, it honestly looks to me as if half her tail is gone. The poor little girl! On the other hand, her deportment and appetite both remain good - dorsal up most of the time. And she does like her gel food!

picture follows: (this one i took about an hour ago)

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything before because I was giving Dr. Tepper the benefit of the doubt. Stop the iodine swabs immediatly.

I have read several things mentioned online about iodine being good for the first couple swabs but after that, it can actually inhibit new growth and even overly-agitate recent injuries if used to excess. Instead, I would switch to hydrogen peroxide or some other less stressful topical. Heck, there's got to be something else for a topical, right?

Maybe Dr. Tepper knows something about what I'm speaking of. I think it would be worth it to tell him about it if not.............

Good luck!

Paul

You're right, Paul! I did have doubts about doing the iodine so often *( though I foolishly did it again today - but followed it up with neosporin) - but thought I'd better do as the doctor said, since the infection had been so persistent. I am afraid she's lost some healthy tissue as a result. Heard from Dr. Tepper today, and he says to stop the iodine and all other treatment, since she's not showing any signs of infection at this point. He wants me to lower the salt concentration in her water, also, and keep her clean and stable (I am aiming for 0.1 percent and am, I think, down to about 0.15 where the salt is concerned). Then I'm to see if I finally see any healing. I am wondering if some melafix, or something like that, would be a help at this point - but then I think, she's been through so much that it's probably better to give her a complete rest from all this stressful treatment.

On the positive side, she's swimming well, eating well, and even seems to have gained some weight (except for her poor tail). Poop is good - solid, short, and the color of her food. She's not as active as she once was, but that's to be expected; at least her balance is good. Now, if only I haven't stressed her too much!

*(It was my inclination to stop the iodine swabs after the second one. As both Deirdre and I said about Gilbert, Dr. Tepper, though a good doctor, is full of experimental zeal - not always what one wants for one's pet! OTOH, it's hard to find a vet who takes fish seriously and is willing to treat them. I'm very glad Dr. Tepper has been williing and able to help me out - if Poly hadn't recovered from the swim bladder problem, he was even willing to take her and board her permanently.)

I agree. leaving it alone, pristine water and good food is the way to go.

Well - I'm afraid I did two more swabs in the past week, but with hydrogen peroxide and polysporin. I probably shouldn't have. Heard from Dr. Tepper last night (naturally, *after* doing a swab), and he agrees with you - says he sees no inflammation, and I should leave her strictly alone for a week. I'm sure she won't mind!

Will post here the two new pics I sent him.

Thanks!

p.s. - I know I was supposed to not do anything a few days ago already. Then I saw more strings coming off her tail Wednesday, and panicked. That's why I did the swabs. But I'd guess at this point the stress of the treatment outweighs the possible benefits, especially since I can't believe there would still be any bacteria alive in there.

(Still wondering about skin flukes, though)

What do you mean strings?

Did some reading on peroxide the other day. It is somewhat irritating and can kill new cells.

So have you treated with prazi?

No, I haven't tried the prazi yet, Betty. Because the doc said, no medicine, so that's what I'm doing for now. But if she's still no better by Thursday, I'm going to try it.

As to the strings, this is how her tail deteriorated - I could actually see it happening after the iodine. She would have a string, like a bit of hair, hanging off her tail as she swam around, and then the string would break off. it wasn't hair, of course, but actually a part of her tail, and she's lost a lot of those strings.

The tail is worse since Friday, but not drastically worse - just a little worse. Here's one of the recent pics:


How are yours doing now, btw, Betty? Is the costia gone?

[attachmentid=6737][attachmentid=6737]

Just a quickie - spoke with Dr. Tepper, and he wants me to hospitalize her if there is still no improvement in a week. He thinks there might still be some active bacteria/ diseased tissue, which is why she keeps losing more and more of her tail. So I may be taking her down to Long Island next Sunday or Monday. Will keep you posted.

Further update - Poly and I made the long and arduous trip down to Long Island this morning, and she is in the hospital. This is because the tail was still deteriorating, although more slowly and only in the places where it touched the bottom of the tank when she was resting. Dr. Tepper gave her a quick visual exam and saw no white, red or clear areas - no active infection, in other words. So the test is to see whether she will start to heal in superclean water with very low current ( he uses a plant/algae filter, so there should be no ammonia products at all in the water, and he believes in low current and bare bottom tanks for fancies). But!

As I said before, Dr. Tepper is full of experimental zeal. He thinks a week or two in a different setting should show whether the problem is in the tank, or the fish. But - She will be in with an adopted lionhead who has swimbladder, and I certainly hope nothing happens to that lionhead. If, (Sts Francis and Polycarp forbid) the little lionhead develops flashing or rot of any kind, I'll be sad about it - also if she bullies him, but that doesn't seem likely since she's a mellow and friendly fish. Please keep your fingers crossed for both of them, and I'll keep you posted.

Just heard from Dr. Tepper tonight; here's his message:

She's doing well. The microscopic exam of her fins showed no active infection and good healing. She has made friends with a small Shubunkin, but has trouble keeping up (too slow)! ... Doc

Now, the bad thing about this scenario is that it might have been (and still be) something about my tank....But i'm glad she's doing well!

Thats great to hear that shes doing better!

I know you are suspecting your tank but, what about your water source? Maybe you should take a sample for it to be tested professionally. You know, just in case there is some sort of contamination..........

Toothless, good to see you back! That suggestion also makes sense; I have city water, and it's heavily chlorinated and often comes out of the taps brown. The pipes are old, both in my building and in my town. And I know that we had a high choloform (?) count during the drought a year or so ago. Of course, I use dechlor all the time, and most of the time the water's been standing for 24 hours or more before I use it - but there are some things (like bacteria) the dechlor wouldn't touch.

Other than a low light level and (maybe) stressing her out by changing the water too often, I can't think of anything else I'm doing wrong at this point. Frustrating! But I'm glad she's finally starting to heal.

(Worried that she'll miss her friend when/if I do get to take her back. She's a very sociable fish.)

Choroform huh? I did a little research into it and found this page: Choroform

Not sure if its a possibility or not but maybe it caused her enough damage to weaken her immune system permenantly.

Low light level could have something to do with it. All animals (non-nocturnal) need the sun (or UV-B light) to help assimilate vitamins like vitamin D. I suppose there is the possibilty that you need good flourescent above her tank with a healthy UV-B concentration. Reptile bulbs are wonderful for this.

Well, hopefully she is on the mend for good!

Just a further update, Toothless, and thanks for your moral support! Interesting (and scary) stuff about the choroform, but isn't choloform different? I thought choloform was a bacterium (a?)? In any case, it's certainly true my city water isn't great-

Anyway, the last I heard from Dr. Tepper, a few days ago, is that she continues to do well, has no active infection, but is showing no real regrowth. He wants to keep her for a few more weeks to be sure the rot doesn't recur. In the meantime, I'm still questioning my tank:

I've got to call the town to find out about the quality, additives, etc.

The light level, which is low, could be a problem. So I'm wondering about getting one of those retrofit kits for my hood. The kit would replace my 2 18 watt bulbs (only one of which works properly) with one 63 watt bulb, thus giving me enough light to actually grow plants. But (I may post this q separately-) I'm wondering if anyone has ever actually done this? Isn't it possible such an intense light would heat up the tank far too much?

Which brings me to my third problem: the tank is just so darn hot. And I've been wondering if this is contributing to a lack of oxygen? Is it possible my fish have been stressed by this, and that's contributed to their illness? I do have an oxygen test kit, and will do a test when I get home and post the numbers here. So that's where I am right now.

Heard again from Dr. Tepper, and he says her fins are starting to grow back (yay!) and I can arrange pickup any time now. So I'll probably get her next week - but only after calling the water dept and speaking to him about my tank conditions. I have missed her (Benvolio Bashir is nice, but doesn't quite take her place), but don't want to put her back into an unhealthy environment-

That's great that your fish is doing better. I hope it continues!

That is awesome news! I'm glad she seems to be on the mend! Lets hope that this is the beginning of a trend......


I have a tidbit of info that you might be interested in:

What are the negative health effects of drinking or swallowing water that contains coliform bacteria?

Coliform or other bacteria in drinking or swimming water will not necessarily make you ill. However, since these organisms are present, other disease-causing organisms may also be present.

Health symptoms related to drinking or swallowing water contaminated with bacteria generally range from no ill effects to cramps and diarrhea (gastrointestinal distress). Two common waterborne diseases are giardiasis and cryptosporidiosis; both cause intestinal illness. E. coli 0157:H7 has also been associated with drinking contaminated water and can cause intestinal illness. In very rare cases, it can cause hemolytic uremic syndrome, a serious kidney condition.

So, if you had a high coliform bacteria count in your city water supply for a length of time, It isn't too far fetched to think that the source of her troubles stem from that contamination. I mean, unless a timeline of the events proves that theory wrong.

I just wanted to throw that into the melting pot and see if anything rises.


Got my fingers crossed for her safe return to you!

Paul, I again want to thank you and Betty for all your help and support. I really don't think I could have kept her alive and (relatively) well for as long as I did without both of you. But-

Dr. Tepper called me at 9:30 this a.m. Poly had just died, quite suddenly and without showing any other symptoms. So, instead of bringing her happily home, I will be bringing her body for (eventual) burial under my parents' rosebush. Dr. Tepper said this did happen sometimes, especially with fancies, and as often as not indicated there was baceterial infection and/or irreperable damage internally, in spite of her apparent good recovery externally. The poor little girl! What a time she had with me; it all started with a weird growth on her tail literally 6 weeks after I got her, and less than a month after the tank had cycled. But she was always happy and friendly, and so forgiving - the iodine swabs freaked her out, but she was still willing to come right up to me and get her food.

I asked Dr. Tepper if he had done an autopsy, and he said not; deterioration would have started the moment she died, and therefore he didn't think he would learn much. I do wonder, though, about chronic internal columnaris? I'm convinced it's what Gilbert had, but she showed none of the classic symptoms (bubble gulping, for instance) that he did. So I don't know. But I have a feeling a fairly large number of petstore goldies do have this, as well as parasites of various kinds.

Anyway, when I pick up her body, I will also be taking home a small common. The doc wants to see how he does in my tank. It won't be Poly, much less Gilbert, but I hope I can manage to keep this one alive for awhile -