I finally decided to plant my 55 gallon tank. When I bought all of my plants, I talked to the LFS guy, and bought everything he said I needed to keep them healthy. I have nutri grow lights (does anyone else use these, and if so, do you like them), flora pride (which I had already bought some before) and the CO2 Fizz Factory. I didnt realize how complicated this CO2 thing could be. I havent used it yet, only for the fact that it can seriously mess with your PH. Should I use it? Does anyone else use this and like it? Any pointers to help me out?
Heres a pix of my tank by the way.
http://www.goldfishparadise.com/album/gall...l-Goldfish-Tank
Full Version: Co2 Fizz Factory
I have plenty of pointers! I can talk your ears off about CO2! 
CO2 messes with your pH because it actually controls it (in combination with carbonated hardness KH).
The best way I've found to approach it is to think of the pH as the *result* you're seeking from whatever you do with your CO2 and KH levels. So you really need to decide what pH you want as your end result while having sufficient CO2 for good plant growth, and then work the KH levels from there to get that pH.
Most plants like exactly pH7, while fish's own pH is 7.4, so I try to strike a balance at 7.2 or 7.3 (in the fish's favour because they come first!
)
At the bottom of this great site's page is a KH v pH chart. So before you do anything, you should test your KH.
So then you look across the top of that chart to the pH7.2 column that you want, and then down to (say your KH is 3), where you can see your CO2 levels are only 5.7ppm. That is the amount of CO2 your water holds at those pH and KH levels, which isn't enough for good plant growth (you need to aim for the green squares).
So you need to increase your KH to at least 6, or even better 8, to get your CO2 absorbtion to acceptable levels between 10ppm and 25ppm. But increasing your KH to 8 also increases your pH! It may even go as way high as pH8.2! But that's okay, really. Because that's where the CO2 comes into play. As the CO2 is absorbed into the water, it slowly lowers the pH to 7.2 and keeps it there (as long as you don't run out of CO2) and voila, you have a CO2 content in the green zone on the chart and pH where you want it!
As you can see from that chart, the lower the target pH you want to achieve, the lower your KH needs to be to achieve adequate CO2 levels.
Or so the theory goes... or at least my grasp of it... It's simple yet very difficult at the same time, like juggling three balls. Well *exactly* like juggling three balls! pH, KH and CO2 balls!
A thing to note is that what messes you around and lowers CO2 levels the most (and hence raises pH) are air pumps and bubbles agitating the water surface to oxygenate the water. The same agitation blows the CO2 out of the water and off into the atmosphere and you lose it. Which is why beautifully planted tanks usually have few or no fish in them. Not because of the fish themselves, but the air bubbles the fish need to survive which are bad for CO2 systems!
Also, once you start playing around with CO2 and KH levels, you really don't want to run out of CO2 otherwise your pH will shoot up if you have a high KH. Which it will also do if you switch off your CO2 at night, if you're thinking you won't be needing it because plants don't use CO2 at night. But you do need it, to maintain your pH at a stable level.
CO2 messes with your pH because it actually controls it (in combination with carbonated hardness KH).
The best way I've found to approach it is to think of the pH as the *result* you're seeking from whatever you do with your CO2 and KH levels. So you really need to decide what pH you want as your end result while having sufficient CO2 for good plant growth, and then work the KH levels from there to get that pH.
Most plants like exactly pH7, while fish's own pH is 7.4, so I try to strike a balance at 7.2 or 7.3 (in the fish's favour because they come first!
)At the bottom of this great site's page is a KH v pH chart. So before you do anything, you should test your KH.
So then you look across the top of that chart to the pH7.2 column that you want, and then down to (say your KH is 3), where you can see your CO2 levels are only 5.7ppm. That is the amount of CO2 your water holds at those pH and KH levels, which isn't enough for good plant growth (you need to aim for the green squares).
So you need to increase your KH to at least 6, or even better 8, to get your CO2 absorbtion to acceptable levels between 10ppm and 25ppm. But increasing your KH to 8 also increases your pH! It may even go as way high as pH8.2! But that's okay, really. Because that's where the CO2 comes into play. As the CO2 is absorbed into the water, it slowly lowers the pH to 7.2 and keeps it there (as long as you don't run out of CO2) and voila, you have a CO2 content in the green zone on the chart and pH where you want it!
As you can see from that chart, the lower the target pH you want to achieve, the lower your KH needs to be to achieve adequate CO2 levels.
Or so the theory goes... or at least my grasp of it...
It's simple yet very difficult at the same time, like juggling three balls. Well *exactly* like juggling three balls! pH, KH and CO2 balls! A thing to note is that what messes you around and lowers CO2 levels the most (and hence raises pH) are air pumps and bubbles agitating the water surface to oxygenate the water. The same agitation blows the CO2 out of the water and off into the atmosphere and you lose it. Which is why beautifully planted tanks usually have few or no fish in them. Not because of the fish themselves, but the air bubbles the fish need to survive which are bad for CO2 systems!
Also, once you start playing around with CO2 and KH levels, you really don't want to run out of CO2 otherwise your pH will shoot up if you have a high KH. Which it will also do if you switch off your CO2 at night, if you're thinking you won't be needing it because plants don't use CO2 at night. But you do need it, to maintain your pH at a stable level.
That was a great post, AW. Lots of practical info and I've really enjoyed it. Cheers!
This was one of the reasons I gave up on the DIY C02. My ph was boucing around because the C02 was higher when I would first refill the bottle with the sugar/yeast mixture hence my ph would drop, then it would rise when the mixture would start to run out, then back down again when I refilled the C02 bottle with a new mixture. So, I thought it was stressful for the goldfish.
If I ever decide to do a truly beautiful planted tank, I will get pressurized C02 and maybe just stock it with a few small tropicals
If I ever decide to do a truly beautiful planted tank, I will get pressurized C02 and maybe just stock it with a few small tropicals
Really? Thanks Captk!
Touchofsky, not just DIY! The same thing happened to me when the CO2 cylinder ran out. pH shot up to 8.4 because I had bumped up my KH to 10 with calcium carbonate. So I literally had to do water change after water change to reduce the KH until I got the pH back down to 7.4.
I'd say a spare back-up bottle on hand would be a good idea just in case the gas runs out on a Friday night for instance and you can't refill or replace it until Monday. The regulator guage does give a few days grace in indicationg a slow pressure drop though to let you know it's about to expire.
Touchofsky, not just DIY! The same thing happened to me when the CO2 cylinder ran out. pH shot up to 8.4 because I had bumped up my KH to 10 with calcium carbonate. So I literally had to do water change after water change to reduce the KH until I got the pH back down to 7.4.
I'd say a spare back-up bottle on hand would be a good idea just in case the gas runs out on a Friday night for instance and you can't refill or replace it until Monday. The regulator guage does give a few days grace in indicationg a slow pressure drop though to let you know it's about to expire.
Good advice, AW. I'll keep that in mind if I ever do set up C02. I live in the country, plus I have to contend with Canadian winters, so often I have to wait a day or so for the weather to clear before I can get out.
At the moment, I have my tank planted with plants that seem to grow without added C02.
I just bought a hydrocotyle leucocephala (pennywort). I haven't had this plant before, but it is supposed to be easy, so hopefully it will grow for me
At the moment, I have my tank planted with plants that seem to grow without added C02.
I just bought a hydrocotyle leucocephala (pennywort). I haven't had this plant before, but it is supposed to be easy, so hopefully it will grow for me
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