After reading jsrtists post on the dangers of stunting fish I went straight to the koi farm to investigate what ponds they had available. It's not like I didn't previously know about the risks of overstocking - it's just got to a point where something has to be done. No more room for tanks and I haven't got the heart to give away any fish.

I had already done a bit of research and I knew I wanted a pre-fab pond but pumps and filters are still confusing. Well, I found what I want and John agreed, after intial protest about the cost.

It's a 240g stand alone rectangular black tub, about 70cm high or 2 1/2 foot. I didn't get the details of the pump and filter but I'm getting the same ones as they use at the koi farm. They use a couple of these tubs for display.

We are planning to put it in the back patio and make a little patio garden around it, cute eh? We will have to somehow divide the patio in half so Henry and the dogs don't get to the pond.

The project will start after we return from our Easter break, yipee, can't wait.

The best thing is all my fish will have 10g, plus I'll have room to spare but I'm not getting anymore fish.

Q. The patio floor is ceramic tiles but the level is uneven, any ideas how to support the tub?

That's great news Annette. Your going to love your porch pond and that's a nice big one!

You can decorate it so pretty with little statues and plants, a fountain in the middle. Put a rocking chair for you and John and there you go. Can't wait for the pictures.

You know I have a little porch pond on my front porch; it's a small one, 47 gal.
Well, I was going to put Adam and Eve back out there this spring when it warmed up. That's where they were last year before I brought them in for winter. Ron asked me "what are you going to do if a snake gets in there in the night and eats one of your fish?" (We have trouble with snakes coming over here from the pasture next to us, there's a pond there.) Now I can't put my fish out there because he put that idea in my head. My porch is not screened. But my fish really enjoyed it out there. I have it going now without fish. I think I'm going to get some water plants and try growing them in there.

I wish I could give you some ideas about supporting the pond. I know someone will have some ideas about that. You and John with find a way.

Hi Queenie, do the snakes swim? Perhaps you could get a piece of plywood and drill some air holes in it, then cover your pond at night.

We went back to the koi farm today and got the pond, pump, filter, fountain, net cover and underwater light. They will deliver the pond on Tuesday, I'm really excited.

Problem over here is that the seasons are reversed. It's not a problem in itself, but it means I'll be putting the fish outside as the cooler weather approaches. At the koi farm they keep their fancies outdoors all year round without a heater, they assure me the fish will be Ok.

I'll be putting around 12 fish out this winter, the larger and faster ones. This means I will still be a little overstocked indoors but I will put more outside next Spring.

We still don't have another camera but I will borrow one if I have to so I can post some pics.

Hi Annette,

That is great news!

How uneven is the floor? Are we talking about rise and fall of mm or cm?

My koi (and the odd feeders) have wintered outside without any problems. I think the coldest water temp last winter was 7*C. Is the patio under cover?

Oh, please if me more details as I live in Sydney too so it is relevant to me for a change!

Hi Henry, yep the patio is undercover with a colourbond/screen enclosure. We were worried we wouldn't be able to fit the tub through the door but if worse comes to worse we will cut the screen open.

The previous owners built the enclosure diy, without permit but the council inspected it and said it was sound.

The floor is bumpy, the tiles don't sit flush against each other, we haven't measured the slope but it could easily be 1-2cm. I am most concerned about rough pressure points and thought some heavy duty foam underlay from Clark Rubber might do the trick. Would it matter if the tank was on a slope?

Hmm, I don't think the 1-2cm fall is a big issue but the unevenness is. Is the patio on solid ground?

I would use a thin layer of coarse builder sand just to fill in some of the deeper indents and then use thick (white) polystyrene sheets (like the stuff they use to pack TV and dishwasher). I don't know where you can buy standard size think sheets. The rubber underlay is a good idea but they will get compressed over time and then the effectiveness will be compromised. Maybe have the polystyrene and a rubber underlay if you want to be 100% sure.

Hi Annette,

I found this site. Has good info and even an online order form.
http://www.adfoam.com.au/

Thanks Captk, you're a gem.

oops, forgot to add, yep the tiles are laid on a concrete slab.

No worries.

Concrete slab is good.

Sounds like a great plan, Annette!! You and CaptK worked it out perfectly, so the only thing I have to add is - PICTURES!! And of course, I bet CaptK is gonna come by and admire it once its done!

That's so exciting Annette! I know you can hardly wait. I can't wait for the pictures.

About the snakes, yes they can. They are water snakes that come out from the pond located in the pasture next to us. I guess I could cover it at night but I'd have to turn the fountain off. Ron says I'm taking a chance with racoons as well. A lady at the farm and ranch store was telling me her grandmother lost all her goldfish to racoons. I'm just going to try and find some plants for my little pond and enjoy it that way. I'll keep my fish in the house. But, I'm on the look out for a big tank at a resonable price.

Hi Annette,
Just wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS on your new pond!!

I can imagine how excited you are right now, please post pics really soon!
Cant wait to see them!

Congratulations Annette You're so lucky to be able to get a pond...
looking forward to see some pics

Thanks guys, I AM really excited - pond comes tomorrow!

Henry, thanks for that link it was excellent. I rang them this morning and ordered a heavy duty sheet of polystyrothane (sp?) 2400 x 1200. They even had a variety of depths to choose from, I got 30cm (12") to give the tub extra height and make it more Henry proof and dog proof.

Once the tub is set up and the weather cools down I'm going to order some similar stuff for insulation around the sides, and a sheet to put over the top at night. The say that 3.6cm (1 1/2") thick of poly is the equivilant of 30cm (12") of solid concrete for insulation purposes. Wow!

I will just use electrical tape to stick the poly on the sides so I can remove it in summer. We are going to camoflauge the black plastic with some pre-fab bamboo fencing and John is in charge of making a potted patio garden - Japanese style.

We inherited two large ceramic Samuri statues from his late aunt and these will set the theme. Apparantly they are copies of some museum pieces (but I know nothing of Japanese art & sculpture).

ps. Henry, when we have everything set up and looking pretty you're welcome to visit our humble abode and give an appraisal.

That sound great, Annette. Just be careful with the depth of the sheet. I'm sure that the compression is not a problem but the lateral movement can be. I would feel more comfortable is it was 10-15cm. What did the company say?

Thanks for the invite, Annette.

Well the company said it would take the weight, no worries. Do you really think it could slip around? 200g is pretty heavy. I hope it doesn't.

I might be totally wrong and I do apologise but from experience, it is quite easy to set up a sideway oscillation in a tank like that and that leads to a lateral force on the base. With 200g of water, it will pack a fair bit of momentum and it can exert a shearing force on the EPS (not so much the tank will slip on the block but rather one half of the block will want to go one way while the other half is not). I don't know. It might never happen but it would be a major problem if you start to see a horizonal crack in the block.

Hmmn, I see, well sort of - it's a bit complicated.

So I don't have to worry unless the tub gets a heavy knock or I see a horizontal crack in the block? Would an adult bumping it be enough force to cause problems?

Well, technically, even gusts of wind can set up oscillations. It is all about positive feedbacks afterall. That is the only reason I'm a bit concerned about a 30cm high block. It will have less lateral support than a thinner block. Like I said, it might be nothing but I would hate to find out the hard way later.

Hi Henry understand what you are saying will change the order as I would prefer that it not be so high myself.
Thanks and Regards
John

Hi Henry, well I'm a goose! I rang up to change the order but I didn't have to, I had ordered 30mm not 30cm!

Sorry to lead you up the garden path, so to speak, thanks for your concern and advice.

That's quite alright! Better safe than sorry. Now, this raised the issue of whether 30mm is enough to smooth out the uneven bits? Sorry!

John picked up some interlocking rubber foam mats today. The are about 15mm deep and very strong. I think they are used for flooring, sort of like softfall. I hope that together with the poly it should do the trick.

Yeah, that should do it.

Hooray!

Hey Annette,
Today's the day then mefinks??????

Hi Kim, yes today was the day - and what a day it was. Had to put the car in for service and rego check so I did a lot of walking back and forth. I cleaned the back patio and the pond arrived just before I had to leave to go get my car. Perfect timing.

I asked the fish guy to take a look at the pump they sold us, John and I just couldn't get it to fit the filter and fountain. Turns out they gave us a wrong attachment so I went back to the koi farm (after I'd been and paid my car rego) and they fixed the pump.

I can't set it up until the poly sheet is delivered, hopefully tomorrow. Garion and I washed some river pebbles and scattered them in the pond but that's as far as we can go atm.

Smokey, the cat, enjoyed hiding in the tub then jumping up to ambush the dogs when they looked inside. It was fun to watch.

Crossing my fingers the poly comes tomorrow, I'm itching to start.

I hope you took pictures every step of the way.

I know how you feel. Had a really long day and then had to take the kids to their music lessons after dinner. By the time we finished, it was dark and the car battery is flat. I called NRMA and they quoted 90mins. Great! Lucky, someone nearby has a jump lead and we managed to get going in 15mins. What drama!

Car hassles are a pain in the butt.

Bother and tarnation! (invented word) the poly sheet isn't coming until tomorrow.

I'll spend the day catching up on some washing and household chores instead, what fun - not!

I get so focused when I start a new project that everything else falls by the wayside. I guess I'm a little obsessive/compulsive. I only got 2 hours sleep on Sunday night because my mind was racing and I planned how I would set up the pond, cycle it, which fish to introduce etc.

oh the excitment!!! lucky bean you!! as you know i am doing my pond at the mo' *fun fun fun* piccys all the way

So excited Annette! Can't wait for you to get it running. Will be waiting for pictures.

Yep, Keep checking in, looking for your piccy's!


Cant wait to see them!

Hi guys, I've been busy. The poly sheet arrived today but I decided not to use it. The tub is just sitting on rubber foam outdoor flooring mats. The way the floor is sloping has the middle of the pond at the highest point with a downward slope off to both sides. The slope is 5-10mm. The mats are about 15mm thick so should compensate for the uneveness.

I have filled it to approximately 100 gallons added prime and buffer and 8 goldfish. Precious - 5" tri-colour oranda, Blizzard & Snow Flake - 4" white orandas, Cleo - 3" redcap oranda, Spotty - 4" shubunkin/common?, Stripey - 3" fantail, Patches - 3" red/white fantail, Sunny - 2" telescope. All measurements are approximate and include the tail.

I have used two sizes and types of river pebbles to scatter on the bottom giving about 80% coverage, the first type are roughly 2cm (1") in diameter and the others about twice as large. I used two kitty-litter trays with gravel to hold some plastic plants and make it feel more homely.

The fish are a bit narked and tend to bunch up in the corner, I hope they get over that.

I couldn't get the pump going because the hose they sold us is too short, so it's back to the Koi farm on the weekend to get some more.

All in all a very rewarding day.

Well done, Annette!
What do we want?!
PICS!
When do we want it?!
NOW!
What do we want?!
PICS!
When do we want it?!
NOW!

Everyone, our camera went to the big gallery in the sky pre-christmas. Can't see us getting another one in the near future 'cos the budget has taken a bashing this month. We've had car rego, pond & accessories and our easter holiday. BUT, I will try to borrow one and post some pics once I get the pump going.

Hi everyone, just an update. The pump is going, so is the filter and fountain. It sure looks purdy with the underwater light!

I added one more fish from the 40g, 'Lipstick' - a medium red/white telescope. Now I have 4 fish in the 40g, yipee!

The cycle started yesterday with ammonia reading of .25, same again today.

Yay, go Annette, GO!

I love a new pond but hate the cycling bit. Wish I can see some pics. Oh well. . .

Annette, we are really dying to see pictures now! And I have had an idea - here in the States you can buy Kodak digital cameras, that are made for just using them once. Its like those cheap regular cameras, that people buy for amusement parks and such, and I saw a digital version of it not so long ago. Is that something thats available in Australia as well?

I saw those too Andrea. That's a wonderful Idea Annette, I hope you can get one because we are so excited we really want to see pictures. It sounds so pretty!

I've never heard of them Andrea but they might be around. John nearly bought a new camera the other day. Maybe we will just stretch the budget because otherwise we won't have a camera for our holidays.

No, I don't think they are available in Oz but digital camera are getting cheaper by the day. I always wonder how the traditional photo developing place survives.

Alot of people transfer their pictures to disc and then have them professionally developed, although printers are getting cheaper everyday too.

Well it's day 7 since set-up. My cycle is really slow, ammonia .5 and nitrites 0. I started with a virgin set-up, apart from approx 25g of mature tank water but the bioload is low. I have nine small/medium fish in 125g, I can't fill it any higher or the cat will go fishing!

I'm adding 1/4 dose of Prime daily which is enough to remove 1.5 ammonia. We are going away over Easter and a neighbour is sitting the fish. It's too much to ask her to test the water but I will have her continue to add Prime daily.

nb. I forgot to add I'm using Cycle as directed and 1/4 dose of Waste Control.

Gee, I wish you live closer, I could have fish sit for you.

Oh, that would have been so nice, just think, I would ring you daily and we would have in depth discussions about cycling, and the health of every single goldfish.

I have been doing bi-weekly water changes in all my tanks the past fortnight to keep them in good form in my absence. I am wrapping single daily serves for each tank in foil so my fish won't go hungry (or get overfeed). This is the first time I've left my fish, so I'm like a nervous mother.

My wife is already complaining that I spend too much time on fish boards. Can you imagine what she'd think when the phone calls start?! It would be neat to actually "talk" to someone instead of a 30min round trip "chat" though.

I know how you feel. I have to do the rounds of tanks and pond before I leave on holidays. Last Jan when we went to QLD, my sister called to tell me that my pond is emptying itself!!! Luckily, they called back the next day and told me that my filter is leaking water and they managed to stop it. What a relief! As soon as I got home, I went to the pond and spend 45mins fixing it before I even unpack the car!

Geez, imagine you two living closer together! It would only start with the phone calls, then it fans out to fish shopping trips together, exploring the use of a microscope, and on and on.
Btw, here is a link to many of the digis available....
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0307/03073101dakotadigital.asp

Gee, won't that be a dream come true. We can sit by the pond and watch the babies at sunset and sip wine, sweep fish tales and plan the next shopping trip to the koi farm! Hey, Annette, there is a house for sale a few doors down. I'll help you dig a pond.

Andrea, we'll keep a spare room handy so you can drop in for a holiday.

Australia, here I come!! A cousin of my husband's and his wife used to travel to Australia when they were younger quite a few times, and they brought back some amazing pictures!
So, how long exactly does that trip to Australia take in a row boat? You know me and airplanes don't mix, right?

Well some of us are planning to get some medicated food into the country using a rat powered sub. Maybe we can make some room for you.