I was wanting to do this for some time, and I was looking at the post nitasher created about her pond, and thats not quite what I am looking for, so i decided to create another topic.

Ok so indoor pond: I want the demensions to be 3'6 long, 3' wide, and 2' deep. So roughly 130 gallons(ish).

This will contain 2 fantails, a loach and a common. I might add a koi on to that, but not until the pond is up and stable.

So the question: How do i go about building this? It has to be able to be taken down fairly easily as i am a renter.
I was thinking about rubber maid tups, but i cant find one the size i want. I have a Rubbermaid tub that squeaks at what i want, its about 2 feet wide, by 3 long, and 2 deep. I was also looking into feed troughs for horses or whut have you, but cant find any other then long skinny ones. So, that black tarp stuff with a wooden enclosure? Perhaps?

Also, whut types of filter do i need? Any thing I should know before building this? Is there any thing else i could use to make it out of? What plants to put in it? How much is this going to run me?

If it is ease of build and breakdown you are worried about, I would go with the pre-formed ponds that you can buy online or at kmart or something. It mght take a little research on your behalf but it will be well worth it in the long run. You can get these pre-formed ponds in just about any size and shape you want, you just gotta look for a source.

Heres a source I came up with:

link 1

You'll see that they are not cheap. And shipping is a real pain in the wallet too. Finding a "high molecular weight" plastic bin to your specifications might be a cheaper route. But then again, shipping is a real pain there too. Maybe you have a local source for farming supplies. You should be able to find large water basins there and you'll be able to forego shipping. Same goes for preformed ponds.

Buying a preformed and using it for indoor applications is rather easy to do if you have access to powertools and or help. You just flip the preformed pond over onto a peice of plywood and trace the pattern. then draw a line a few inches in from the traced line and cut itout. This extra edge is to act as a lip for the pond edge to sit on. Then all that is needed is a frame to hold the pywood up. Their are many different websites that boast DIY plans and pictures out there, just try the correct keywords in a search engine.

I think the DIY pond that nitasher is working on is a very realistic version of an indoor pond without the costs of buying preformed (with shipping). The profile is small because of the rectangular form ans will actually be quite easy to move once fully assembled (but empty. She just needs to make sure to have a plywood bottom. Two full grown men could very easily flip it on its side and move it. The plantfilter isn't necessarily needed if the GPH of whatever filter/s totals at least 10 X's an hour and/or has a large bio-filter or sponge.


Let us know what you think and we can help you figure out what you need.

I was planning on making a frame (log cabin style) out of 2x4, with 4x4 as corner posts and vertical 2x4s as support on the inside center of the 'walls' of the frame, with a plywood bottom. Then putting pond lining inside, and securing the hang over of liner with a 2x4 lip around the outside. Basically creating a bag in a wooden box. (I think one of the pics you put up on Nitasher's topic, of the out door log-cabin style pond, is very simalar to whut i want.

I was looking at the preformed ponds, and all the ones i have come across that are the size i want are such irregular shapes that I simply cant put them in my apartment. Thats why I was going for the very simple, kind of compact square. More of a tank on the floor shape. That and the price is unbelievable for some of these things.

I was wondering about filter types. I was thinking having a little filter and a small fountain like thing to give the water some current. Heres a pic i drew of what I am thinking of doing to the enterior. As the little caption notes, i dont know what these things look like, so i dont know if that set up would work. So any tips or what ever you could give me would be great. Also if you could inform me on a proper way to set up the fountain/filter, that would be great too.

Thanks btw!!

Edit: It might make sense to include the image. <_<

Your idea sounds great!

Here's a couple of things that might help you:

you can omit the vertical 2x4's in the pond by laying the log cabin frame out with 2x4's laying flat. This way, retain all the strucural integrity you will need in just the frame itself. It can easily be constructed with nails or screws alone. just remember to stagger the pattern on each consecutive layer of 2x4's so that you aren't hitting nailheads from the last lyer put down. (you get the idea?) I realize this creates more weight (and just a bit more cost) but it will eliminate your struggle in trying to shape the pondliner around the vertical 2x4's you proposed.

Also, while you can use any wood you want for the frame itself (spruce, pine, pressure treated pine, etc), the cap you place over the pondliner edges should be constructed out of virgin (untreated, unpainted, un-anything but dried) spruce. And I would even use 2x6 for the cap/lip so that there is a little lip that extends over the pond and/or the outside edge.

2x4's are 3 1/2 inches wide by 1 1/2 inches thick

2x6's are 5 1/2 inches wide by 1 1/2 inches thick

In knowing this, you can either have a 1 inch lip inside and outside the pond or you could have a 2 inch lip inside the pond. Both are nice but a lip inside is the important factor. Plus, this extended lip will make for a nice place to put flowerpots that contain plants that aren't marginal or aquatic.

Click to view attachment

For filtration, you dont need a fountain for creating currents in your pond. You can actually grow a nice sized colony of beneficial bacterias on a large sponge prefilter. The prefilter sponge can lay on the bottom with a tube that runs to a powerhead or the sponge can be directly attached to the powerhead. The powerhead can either lay on the bottom or it can hang on a couple of hooks placed just under the lip of the capped edge. if the powerhead is hung at the water surface, no extra aeration is needed because the outflow from the pump will skirt across the pond. If the powerhead and sponge is kept on the bottom, all that is needed is a hose running from the powerhead up to the edge of the pond where you can hang a water return/ outflow peice for wet/dry filters from the lipped edge.

There are many ways to supply sufficient filtration for your proposed pond. The secret is to have enough bio-filtration surface area so that you dont need the regularly suggested 10 x's filtration. wich method you choose is up to you. I'll be back with some ideas on that for you . hopefully, in the meatime, some others have some ideas on providing enough bio-surface area...........

Whew! ok...

What i was going to do with the top edge is put a board on top of the top board of the frame, making a pond liner sandwich so to speak. Then i was going to put another 2x4 on top to form the ledge, and making the whole thing look very fancy indeed IMO. I wanted to use the vertical 2x4's to make a better support joist so to speak for my ledge. I draw pictures to explain things, this probably helps everyone else, so any way, heres whut i mean:

Ok, i was planning on using plain old 2x4, I think they are usually pine or spruce, but i have a dog and i dont want any chemicals in my apartment. Let alone any where near my fish, so no pressure treated crap for me. But why spruce? Is it better then pine? Just a question.

I would like to have a little fountain of some sort, if not to arreate the water more then at least to look pretty. Would the prefilter sponge suck up the poop at the bottome? Is it the type of filter that you can wring out every once and a while and use for ever? Im just trying to get a grip on the filter, as thats one of the most important things here. I know nothing about filters other then 10x the gallonage. A power head, is that just like a filter that hangs on the side of the tank?

If you are planning on running the vertical 2x4's side by side so that the inner walls of the pond are 4 flat planes. then yes, your idea would work wonderfully. I especially like the added 2x4 on the sides, under the cap. thats a nice touch.

Keep in mind, its going to be tough to get the pondliner to form around the 4x4 posts in each of the corners. and if your going to space the vertical 2x4's out, that adds even more struggle with the pondliner. Pondliners can be quite the pain in the neck with smaller applications and simplifying the design to acount for this is a good idea.

If you use 2x4's for the cap, you would only have 3 1/2 inches for the cap and the lip would only hang over at 1/2 inch max. you can even try getting a nice peice of beveled wood for the cap (or bevel it yourself).

As for the woods you choose to use, hard pine is actually the better choice for the construction of the walls. But, I have found that pine, untreated is a major risk for different molds. I build houses for a living and I can tell you that i have seen some pretty exotic looking molds on hard pine while spruce remained relatively free of mold. this is precisely why I suggested that you use spruce for the cap. If you still would like to use pine for the cap, buy a good clear epoxy or colored epoxy paint to seal it with. That way, it is wiped clean with a rag. Also, because of capilary action, it would be a good idea to run a bead of (aquarium sealant)along the inside edge of the lipped edge so that water doesnt ever mak its way through.

Filtration should be fairly easy for you to construct or buy. Sponges are indeed reusable for quite some time.

Are you wanting to construct or buy the filtration?

Construct or buy, Depends on what I can get around here, what is cheaper, and whut I am capable of doing with out a huge mess or a big ugly tangle od pipes and hoses. lmao i am not the greatest at this sort of thing. What would you suggest for making? I am planning on getting one of them fountain things, the must suck water into them to spout it up again, would poop and what not get trapped inside it and damage it?

http://www.pondsolutions.com/fountain-nozzles.htm

while you can order or pick-up kits like this:



They do not provide the necessary bio-filtration that you will need because the low amount of water pressure needed by most of these little fountainheads will be too low for the total gallonage of the pond. So, just using a pump and nozzle for the fountain and using a totally different pump with large sponge prefilter is what I think will be needed. Basically, youll have 2 pumps, one for the fountainhead and one for the filter.

The fountain head will need a lot less gph total so the pump can be relatively small.

The pump for the filter will need to push 5-7 X's the gallonage of the pond evey hour. This will be a considerably larger pump.

As for the bio-filtration area, If we can locate a source for an exceptionally large sponge prefilter to attach to the filterpump, this will be all that is needed. In all honesty, we have time to work on that. Maybe a little more research will reveal a good sized one that You will need. The sponge will need to be about as large as a gallon jug.

Ill be back with more for you....

Oh i wasnt going to use them for the filter, i was just wondering if they sucked up anything would it break them, as they arent designed to be filters. lol im waiting for you ideas.

The filter that Paul discribed is a nice one if you wonna add some fountain as an extra in your pond, otherwise I am not too thrilled with that particular brand of underwater filter. I had one of those, and you wouldn't believe what amount of waste accumulated underneath the filter! YUCK! I tried to vaccuum it out whenever I did a water change, but with very little gravity so close to ground level I wasn't too happy. I think the problem was that the pump itself was too far away from the filter to suck up all the waste from underneath the filter as well.

For the pump and fountain head, something like this would be great:



For the filter that will house all or much of your beneficial bacteria, something like this:

Click to view attachment

the sponge in the pic above is 5 inches by 4 inches. If you wanted to get a little crafty, you can cut a million holes into a piece of pvc and stack 3 of these on top of each other. then, take the pvc and shove it down through all 3 so that the pvc stops where the sponge stack ends. Cap the pvc and connect a hose from the other end of the pvc to the pump and a hose that runs from the pump up to the surface under the capped lip where the outelt will be suspended. All in all, you will only have two hoses that you can easily position on the bottom and up the side. You can even get lengths of hoses that are black and they will blend in wonderfully with the black pondliner. Oh, I forgot to mention that you can lay the sponge/prefilter/biological filter tube down on its side on the bottom. any and all debris will collect near or on the sponge, making vacuuming a breeze. If you choose to lay the sponge down on its side, you could even add another sponge to toal 4 or more of them, this will surely be enough bio-filtration for your pond (with a pump running about 5-600gph). I'm not exactly sure of the porosity of these particular sponges but doing a little research for some sources now will spare you time later when you go to construct the pond.

There are quite a few more ways to create a good bio-filter but this is perhaps one of the easiest. That is, without having an external filter such as the plantfilter weve been working on.

Did you see the lava rock bio-filter that was in the other indoor pond thread? Its pretty neat, take a look see:

trickle filter]trickle filter

Imagine something on a smaller scale for your pond!

Anyways, whattya think?

Ok i get ya now.. I did see that lava rock thing btw.

Ok im curious as to why i need a bio filter? I dont have all that stuff im my tank, why dont i need it on the tank but do need it in the pond? Is there some thing im missing? I just though hooking up a pond filter of the right gph and a little spout and all would be fine. lol im confused here, Im wondering if the bacteria in my tank should now have a house...

Well, lets see.............



Your tank already has a functioning bio-filter. Every surface in your tank that water comes into contact with houses beneficial bacteria. The higher the flow of water across that surface, the more bacteria. Gravel is an excellent place for bacteria to grow becaus it has lots of surface area on each and every peice, it lets water flow through it somewhat freely and food/poo (ammonia source) sinks there. IF any gravel at all, 1-2 inches max.

Now, the higher flow areas have more bacteria because they are recieving more of a steady supply of ammonia (and nitrItes) than other places. You can safely assume that the highest flow rate area of a tank or pond is the filter. You know the brown gunk in the filterbox? Beleive it or not, thats actually what keeps your water happy. The bacterias grow there in clumps because of the ample supply of ammonia flowing through it. The bacters will mainly colonize the floss/foam if there is no other surface given for it in the filterbox/area. This is why it is a risky situation to add a new filter cartridge to a filter if it is the only filter on a tank. You are basically dessimating half or more of the available bio-filter. Over the next week or two, the new cartridge reaches the capacity that the old one was at before dumping it. Aquarists everywhere highly praise ANY tankfilter that provides an area to keep a constantly colonized bio-filter. These are usually in the form of media-baskets, sponges and bio-wheels.

Whew!

Heres a page describing the actual bio-filter and cycling in a bit more detail: cycling tanks

See why I've been stressng the bio-filter so much?

The plantfilter as a waterfall type filter is quite a good one because it incorporates good bio-filtration (bio-balls) as well as chemical filtration (plants using up nitrates and purifying the water). But, the more I look at that volcano fountain bio-filter thing, the more I like it...............


Does that help clear things up a bit?