Hello everyone,

You might have read my two earlier threads but i thought i'd start a new one as i think this is a slightly different topic.

Basically story so far....

I had 2 goldfish, Jen & Berry
I bought two new loaches, Haley & Comet
I found this site
Loaches died
Found out my tank was too small and i should be testing the water
Bought test kit
Bought bigger tank
Moved fish, gravel, filter, plants and some water into new tank last weekend
Bought new filter on line
Been checking water all week as Jen had a torn fin, added melafix
Water change wednesday
New filter arrived thursday, couldn't set it up til saturday
Tested water first thing saturday because fish were sitting on the bottom and not looking happy, ammonia at 4ppm
Set up new filter, fluval 104. Has sponge screen, then carbon then bio bead things.
Did a large water change (50% ish)
Ammonia reading was 2ppm
Still 2ppm last night before i went to bed
This morning ammonia was up to 4ppm again
Have done another 50 - 60% water change
Ammonia now 2ppm

I also added ammolock as per instrustions saturday and bought and used stress-zyme to help the new filter get established. I use stress coat to condition all water i add. Tap water has 0ppm ammonia/nitrite and 10ppm nitrate, pH 7.4

I'm going to do another 50% water change later but wanted to give the fish a little break between them.

So really i just want to check i'm doing the right thing and helping the fish as much as possible. I read on the cycle of the tank page that as nitrites appear i should salt the tank - whats the dosage per litre or uk gallon?

Should i remove the carbon from the filter? I have also put the sponge from the old filter by the intake of the new one just incase there are any bugs left on it but i don't think there can be.

Symptoms of the fish are sitting on the bottom, red blotches on Berry, 'sad looking' tails on both.

Sorry this has turned out so long, thanks for reading,

Rachel

Hi Rachel

Sorry you are having such a time of it with your fish!

First, the ammonia level is way too high - no wonder poor Ben and Jerry are getting burned. The ammonia should never be allowed to rise above 1.0 ppm (the ideal level to keep it is between 0.5 and 1.0). Don't give the fish a 'break' between water changes, as ammonia is far more stressful to them than the changes: keep on doing these every day, twice a day if you need to, as long as you keep the ammonia down under 1.0 . Also, don't assume the water is safe after a change: test it again and make sure. You may need to do surprisingly larger changes - up to 70 or 80% - to get the level down. 50% may well not be enough if the ammonia level is soaring like you're describing.

When the nitrite level rises, salt the tank to 0.3%. This is achieved by putting in 1 level tablespoon of salt (which must be free of anti-caking agents so check the label very carefully first) per 5 US gallons of water - 3 UK gallons - every twelve hours for a total of three treatments. So if you had a 20 US gallon tank for example, you'd add 4 tbs, wait 12 hours, add another 4 tbs, wait 12 hours, then add 2 final tbs (make the last dose slightly less to compensate for the fact that tanks always hold a little less than their stated capacity). Dissolve the salt completely first in some old tank water and pour it in gently, well away from the fish and filter. Remember yo calculate how much water you remove at each water change and add the right amount of salt to the new water going in to keep the level up at 0.3%. Remove the salt through regular water changes once the nitrite level has dropped again.

Incidentally, you may as well take the old filter sponge out - the bacteria don't move around much in the water so they won't be 'swept' into the new filter.

You need to remove the carbon from the filter if you want to treat the tank with medications or with Ammolock. (If you left it in while you used Melafix by the way then it would have removed that within a couple of hours unfortunately).

Hope this helps.

Thanks Emma,

I'll keep up the water changes, was even up at 6 this morning to do one before work! I've now taken the carbon out of the filter and put the old sponge in there just in case. I didn't have the new filter when i was using the melafix, i know it was in there - the tank smelt of tea tree! lol I put another dose of ammolock in again after taking the carbon out as it was nearly ready for the next dose anyway and i suspected the carbon had removed it.

Thanks for the dosing info for the salt, Do i need to wait til i see nitrite or can i start putting the salt in now?

If i do 2 water changes this evening and try to get the ammonia level down to 0.5, hopefully I'll be able to only do 1 water change a day to keep it below 1.

Should i be feeding the fish at the moment?

Many thanks for your help, I hope the fish are ok til i get in tonight. I hate working so far from home that i can't go home at lunch time when i want/need to

Rachel

Boy, I know how that feels!

You could add the salt now but there's no point - it won't do anything to help the fish. Wait until nitrite shows, otherwise you're just making unnecessary work for yourself.

Feed the fish sparingly (only what they can eat within one minute and none left over) once a day only during cycling. You can increase feeding to twice a day for up to 2 mins a time once the tank has cycled.

Usually , once you get the ammonia down to 0.5 it only takes one water change a day to keep it there, though it can be a very large water change. Don't be surprised if you have to do 75% changes (which is fine, by the way).

Let us know how you get on.

Thanks again Emma,

Its great being on this site and knowing you are not the only one who sits at work worrying about your fish and gets strange looks when you tell people you spent all weekend changing the water in the fish tank!

I hadn't thought about how much extra work adding the salt now would be with calculating how much more to add each water change, oh dear, think i'll be on here for help with working that out as i measure my water changes in buckets - i'd best find out how big the bucket is! lol

They look ok tonight, checked the ammonia and it was at 1 which is what i guessed it would be after the water change this morning, next time i'll check but it couldn't have risen much. I'm just doing another water change to try and bring it down to 0.5 and then will test again. Thanks for all the help.

Think the fish will be glad to be fed, they were nibbling my fingers while i was syphoning out the water! lol I've been very wary of feeding them and making the ammonia rise even more.

How long aprox will it be before nitrites show? and whats the best temp for the tank at the moment? It was about 20-21C as i have only just got a heater so was raising it slowly but i have now turned it down to about 19C because i though amminia was more toxic at higher temperatures, also higher pH. My tank pH is 8 and thats what i get from tap water. Its very hard tho so doesn't change much! I don't know if that makes a difference.

Thanks again for all the help

btw, where abouts in kent are you (if you don't mind me asking) I live in Bath but we have relatives in kent, near bluewater

Rachel

The people where I work think I'm absolutely crackers, banging on and on about fish! It's when you bounce excitedly into the office chanting 'Woo-hoo! I got a canister filter this weekend! 500 gallons per hour and a 1.4 litre capacity - boy, that baby really rocks!' and you suddenly realise you're talking into a deathly silence.......

It'll be around a week, possibly 10 days, before the nitrites begin to show. They will turn up while the ammonia is still high, so you get double whammy for a while. The after another week or so, both ammonia and nitrite will begin to drop and nitrate will appear. It'll probably take another week before only nitrate is present. Most tanks take around 4 weeks to cycle from start to finish; the quickest I've ever done it is 3 weeks.

20/21 C is fine, actually it's a good temperature for them. It doesn't really matter much, as long as it is above 18 and below 26.

Ammonia is not more toxic at higher temperatures (although the water holds much less oxygen above 24F so you do need to increase oxygenation if the temp rises), but it definitely IS more toxic in a higher pH. (My pH is 8.0 - 8.2 too by the way.) That's one reason why you really need to keep it below 1.0.

at the canister filter thing, i got very excited last week when my new filter arrived, at least we understand each other!

I think i'll turn the heater back up to where it was then, then seemed to like it a big wrmer and the temp was more constant then. I think they should have enough o2 in the water with a filter and bubble curtain and bubble stone they seem to like all the bubbles

Rachel