sorry to post a topic about this again but it was getting a little jumbled in the culling topic below...
Some of the questions were...
How is culling done?
How are fish chosen?
After culling and narural death, how many fish, in one batch, normally survive and live to become adults?
Full Version: Culling
There are probably different ways to do it, just as there are different reasons for doing it. Breeders most likely cull to find the best fishes under a whole lot of fry, and to keep those a better chance and good water quality by eliminating the ones that are crooked, have not the traits the breeder is looking for and generally to keep the water quality and gl/fish under control....
The way I did it when I had fry from an oranda and a lionhead (dont ask
), I waited until the fry was big enough to even see their backs and fins. I had them in a 160 gl tub outside, so it was kind of hard to see. I trabbed a tuberware container and collected as them as careful as possible, and put them in a 10 gl tank. That way I could see much better how the babies looked.Then I started watching them at first for crooked backs and obvious misshapes of their dorsal fins, and catched those out with a fine brine shrimp net.
My batch wasnt that big, less than 100, and I found quite a few with bends in their backs and not properly developed dorsals...
That is the first cull, for obvious mishaps and deformities. The rest is probably left over to the likes of the breeder. Some take those out who have webbed tails, some dont like fish with just one anal fin, some go for a particular shape of the tail and take out the ones who are lacking that trait. I would guess if somebody would breed telescopes and bubble eyes, they of course had to look for deformities here.
You could probably ask a few different breeders, and all of them would give you different answers on what they are looking for when culling...
The way I did it when I had fry from an oranda and a lionhead (dont ask
), I waited until the fry was big enough to even see their backs and fins. I had them in a 160 gl tub outside, so it was kind of hard to see. I trabbed a tuberware container and collected as them as careful as possible, and put them in a 10 gl tank. That way I could see much better how the babies looked.Then I started watching them at first for crooked backs and obvious misshapes of their dorsal fins, and catched those out with a fine brine shrimp net. My batch wasnt that big, less than 100, and I found quite a few with bends in their backs and not properly developed dorsals...
That is the first cull, for obvious mishaps and deformities. The rest is probably left over to the likes of the breeder. Some take those out who have webbed tails, some dont like fish with just one anal fin, some go for a particular shape of the tail and take out the ones who are lacking that trait. I would guess if somebody would breed telescopes and bubble eyes, they of course had to look for deformities here.
You could probably ask a few different breeders, and all of them would give you different answers on what they are looking for when culling...
That all sounds so mean - my neighbor lets her guppies breed and then lets the other fish eat them. I would hate for people to do puppies that way! I know I am a big baby - but fish are people too. 
i wouldn't consider it mean to cull them for deformities...it's sort of like putting them out of their misery, they wont have to live with their deformities but doing it for look...well...if someone were a serioius breeder then i could see that or if they were pressed for space to keep them...just my thoughts
I know, I know - I'm just a big softy. I guess it is no different then me feeding my dried brine shrimp or blood worms. Sorry I got off the topic again!
Well, you probably fill find the ones that are not perfect enough for a breeder for any reason, in our local pet stores. Those stores seem to be the perfect spot for them, and its better than being eaten by some oscar...
One of my four month old fry has a "spike" dorsal fin. For the majority of goldfish breeders he would have been a cull. I kept him because he is so perfect in every other way and is so healthy. I look at it that he is "unique" among his peers. People say not to breed those fish with those type of deformaties as to not carry on the bad gene. I say that it makes perfect sense if that fish was to breed, there would be plenty of fry with normal dorsal fins. After all, the parents had no deformaties. I think no matter how perfect or less than perfect a fish is and they are bred, there will always be good examples and deformed examples.
I too think that sometimes the "abnormal" is what attracks us to pets. Who wants one that looks like everyone elses! I think most of the time the truly sick ones die anyway.
What is your preferred method of culling? Freezing? Or as feeders? Just wondering.
I definitely agree with culling for deformities. So many times our store gets a batch of fish in and you see some glaring deformities, and I wonder why they werent culled. Most of the time though theyre decent looking and healthy enough fish. Most of the fish in pet stores are culls, anyway. I have a ranchu with a single anal fin and a pearlscale with a kinked tail. They may not be show fish but that doesnt matter to me.
As far as survival rate like you were asking I believe its very small, only about 1-2%. Can someone back me up on that?
I definitely agree with culling for deformities. So many times our store gets a batch of fish in and you see some glaring deformities, and I wonder why they werent culled. Most of the time though theyre decent looking and healthy enough fish. Most of the fish in pet stores are culls, anyway. I have a ranchu with a single anal fin and a pearlscale with a kinked tail. They may not be show fish but that doesnt matter to me.
As far as survival rate like you were asking I believe its very small, only about 1-2%. Can someone back me up on that?
Out of the batch of fry I had this past spring, I only have two survivors out of 56. That's about a 2% survival rate. Granted, most of the 56 were culled as opposed to just dying. But out of the 8 I tried to keep only two survived. I never did understand why the other six died. There were no signs of disease at all. It mysteriously happened between the 8 and 10 week old mark.
When the time comes for culling, I prefer to put the deformed babies into the freezer. I am not too happy with the thought that the poor things are gonna be chased around by some big mean oscar and be eaten away....
Out of my batch of around 30 7 made it to the final round, with over half being culled for the simple reason, that the parents were a lionhead and an oranda, and the fish just had too many things missing. Thats also the reason I prefer to breed fish from the same breed, so you dont get too many mutts out of it.
In the case of the cullings, the most of them ended up at a little neighborhood store, and people were willing to pay for them, so they were not bad to sell.I waited to bring them over there until they were about 4 inches, to make sure they were not intended as fish food for some other fish. Four the owner kept for himself, and I still have one swimming around in one pond out there...
Mysterious deaths are a strange thing. I understand with my betta fry, which is just over 2 weeks old now and still as small as a speck of dust, that they are just so fragile, that anything can throw them off, and you are supposed to leave them pretty much alone for the first 3 weeks. But have that happening later when they get bigger, that is some strange thing. Maybe some unknown parasite attack?
Out of my batch of around 30 7 made it to the final round, with over half being culled for the simple reason, that the parents were a lionhead and an oranda, and the fish just had too many things missing. Thats also the reason I prefer to breed fish from the same breed, so you dont get too many mutts out of it.
In the case of the cullings, the most of them ended up at a little neighborhood store, and people were willing to pay for them, so they were not bad to sell.I waited to bring them over there until they were about 4 inches, to make sure they were not intended as fish food for some other fish. Four the owner kept for himself, and I still have one swimming around in one pond out there...
Mysterious deaths are a strange thing. I understand with my betta fry, which is just over 2 weeks old now and still as small as a speck of dust, that they are just so fragile, that anything can throw them off, and you are supposed to leave them pretty much alone for the first 3 weeks. But have that happening later when they get bigger, that is some strange thing. Maybe some unknown parasite attack?
I don't like the idea of culling, but I won't jump onto others for doing it. The person at bettatalk has a nifty program called adopt-a-cull where customers can adopt one of her 'culls' to go with their other order. If I ever end up with fry, I'll probably donate the culls to trustworthy people I know in my area.
We have a planted tray in our pet store that holds plants for customer to buy. It also has many not-for-sale fish in it. One of the fish in there is special to me and a few other employees. It's an albino cory cat, and its back is bent in two spots, so it looks like it has a zigzag back. It moves around as easily as can be and has been in there for a very long time. I love the little guy and am glad he wasn't culled just because his back was bent.
We have a planted tray in our pet store that holds plants for customer to buy. It also has many not-for-sale fish in it. One of the fish in there is special to me and a few other employees. It's an albino cory cat, and its back is bent in two spots, so it looks like it has a zigzag back. It moves around as easily as can be and has been in there for a very long time. I love the little guy and am glad he wasn't culled just because his back was bent.
I just noticed all my fish have single anal fins except the lionhead. I guess that is why they were "culled" to the petstore 
It would be my luck that lionheads only have a single anal fin and mine is a freak LOL just kidding. The lionhead was expensive even though he was so small because no one around here breeds them.....
hmmm maybe I should get a big boy lionhead LOL
Jessica
It would be my luck that lionheads only have a single anal fin and mine is a freak LOL just kidding. The lionhead was expensive even though he was so small because no one around here breeds them.....
hmmm maybe I should get a big boy lionhead LOL
Jessica
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