Hi,

I have only just found this site, and after reading quite a lot of posts have decided to ask for some advice.

I have realised my tank is too small and over stocked however, unfortunatly at the moment a bigger tank is not an option however i would like to make the environment the best i can in the circumstances.

The tank is 18" by 10" by 10" deep (i think).

It has gravel in the bottom and quite a few artificial (sp?) plants and some real plant that my local fish shop sells as goldfish oxygenating weed. I don't have all real plants as the goldfish eat them! I replace the weed when it gets eaten. There is also a small castle ruin type decoration.

There is a filter, a fluval 1.

For fish i have 2 red orandas that are about 1 1/2" long (one is a little smaller than the other, body length, not tails!) and have just bought 2 algae eaters that were sold to me as butterfly plecs but i think are actually hillstream loaches, that are about 1" each.

I feed flake food to the goldfish and have sinking algae pellets for the loaches, although so far the goldfish have just been eating these.

I clean the tank regularly, clean glass, use a gravel cleaning syphon thingy, wash out the filter foam in the old water, occasionally take out the plants & decoration and clean the algae off (before i had the loaches) and replace about 25 - 30% of the water with treated tap water.

The fish look happy and healthy, i've had the goldfish nearly 18 months now and have not had any problems. The loaches were only added this weekend.

I know this set up isn't ideal but is there anything i could do to improve it? As i said at the start i cannot get a bigger tank unfortunatly.

Basically, how often should i be cleaning out & how much water to change?
Is the filter good enough?
Would an airstone help? Would the fish like one?!
What's best to feed the fish on? especially so my big greedy goldfish (Berry) doesn't eat it all. The smaller goldfish (Jen) gets plenty of food but i'm worried about the loaches.

Thanks for reading all that, I hope you don't think i'm a really bad fish keeper, i was originally told when i bough the goldfish the tank was suitable for 4 fish, i'm now not sure this is correct.

Rachel

Well you've got the same filter as me , the above sentence in bold is not the best option for 4 fishs, as they are goldfish which produce lots of waste.

Each goldfish need atleast 10 Gallons of water because they get bigger and produce loads of poo in a short time, but 4 fish in that size tank can happen, but needs extra maintenance...

So for 2 goldies and 2 hillstream loaches (as i now think they are - so much for what the shop told me!) How often should i be changing the water?

I think these two new fish and going to cost me a whole lot more than i expected - i'm going to get them an airstone and some other bits to try and keep them happy. I am really please i've found this site.

Glad the filter is ok - at least the shop were right with that.

You're not a bad fishkeeper at all - you obviously care about your fish and work hard at looking after them. I'd say you're doing very well indeed!

As you already know, your tank is definitely too small for the number of goldfish you have (I'd recommend a 24 x 12 x 12 tank as a minimum size for your collection), but you can still keep your fish reasonably well in the meantime with good care.... as you're already doing. The only things I would suggest are weekly water changes of 50% together with thorough gravel cleans and upgrading your filter to a Fluval 2+ or even a 3+ (Fluval 1 - unless you mean the external canister model, not the internal power) is pretty feeble to be honest! These two things should keep the water quality perfectly acceptable. However, as you are overstocked you definitely should invest in testing kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the water every week so that any hiccups in quality are recognised quickly and can be dealt with before they become life-threatening.

I would also vary the fish's diet a bit: a constant diet of flake food is not good for them. Try frozen or gelled 'live' foods, like bloodworm or brine shrimp - GF love those. And fresh veggie food - like lightly boiled and de-skinned peas - is very good once or twice a week too. Most GF also like a little piece of fruit occasionally as treat, such a small chunk of orange they can suck at. Feeding lots of different food gives the fish some interest each day and also ensures they get a good balance of nutrients.

Hope this helps.

Okay, 10"x10"x18", that's less than 10 gallons (10½"x12½"x20"). After 18 months and your orandas are still at 1½", they are stunted permanantly.

In that sized tank, you should be doing at least 50% water changes twice every week. I'd recommend you take the loaches back (fear not, as petstores don't often recommend loaches in bowls like they do goldfish).

On feeding, flakes are not the most nutritious things to be feeding. Go out and buy a pack of bloodworms and a bag of peas. Your fish will thank you.

Airstone, yes considering how the Fluval probably isn't giving enough circulation and they are pretty cheap to set up. Rena air pumps are very quiet.



There is no Fluval 1 cannister, the Fluval externals are the '04 series.

The Fluval 1 is inadequate for filtration (it does 200l per hour) and the Hagen site itself recommends it for aquariums 7" to 17" and as you all know, goldfish require more filtration than tropicals.

What I recommend is you go out, buy an Aquaclear 20, and stuff its media basket full of bio media (ceramic rings, lava rock, etc.). Actually, what would really be great is a wet dry system but it's probably not for you as it's tricky to do without pre-drilled holes.

Thanks for your replys, I tried to write earlier but lost the post and didn't have time to write it again then so here goes.

I'm going to try and get a better filter on friday, i can't get to the store before then, hopefully the aquaclear one.

Would it be ok/a good idea to run both filters for a while together? I was thinking that might help the biological bugs to build up in the new filter.

I'll get a bubble curtain or something as well so thanks for the recommendation of the quiet air pump, very useful as the fish are in the living room.

What is the best sort of water test kit to get or are they all pretty much the same? I'd like to be able to phone up the store before i go and check they have what i want so i don't waste a journey and can go somewhere else if needed.

Finally i have had a look at what food i have, some dried tubifix cubes, dried blood worms and also dried daphnia, but the fish don't seem to like the daphnia. The only peas i have at the moment are minted so i'll get another bag of plain! I'll try and get some pellets as well, what is the best sort? (i'm in the uk, incase that makes a difference) As well as some fresh/frozen/gel stuff.

I also tried to measure them but they weren't very co-operative! i think Berry is about 2 1/2" long in the body, he has a huge tail as well and is also quite round (fat! he's a greedy guts!) Jen is smaller, always has been, just under 2". I feel bad that i have kept them in such bad conditions for this long but hopefully i'll be able to give them a happy life even if they do always stay small

Thanks,

Rachel

Rachel, there is no problem in running the two filters together. Just make sure the current doesn't push around your goldies too much, and there is a quiet spot in the tank where they could swim to and rest. If you go for an Aquaclear (if the UK has them), the outlet can be reduced a bit, so the current isn't so strong. And stuff a little bit of the filter media from the old filter into the new one, it speeds up the bacteria buildup.
The best, and cheapest test kit is from AquariumPharmaceuticals, and it comes with a little glass to put the tankwater in, a solution for the testing and a cart where you can read off the results. The water will change color when the solution is added, and you can read off the cart depending on what color it is.
As for food, bloodworms and daphnia are excellent choices, so are the tubifex, except they could harbor harmful bacteria if not dried correctly. The cheapest peas you can find are the ones in the frozen food section, and are bette than the canned ones, which contains salt and isn't too good for goldies in such large concentration. For just 2 fish, the peas should last you a lifetime, and then some....
Any other food choices are frozen bloodworms/krill/daphnia, zuccini or cucumber. If your petstore carries gel food cubes, that would be fine too. Or you can make your own, there are some great receipes in the food section here....

Thanks, I can't add filter media from one to the other as the filter i have now is just one section of media IYSWIM. I will be careful about the current as it is quite strong already but they seem to like it and play it in, they do go to the 'calm corner' to sleep, its quite funny. When i get the new filter (friday or saturday hopefully, have just found our about a really good sounding new lfs, well new to me!) i'll have a fiddle and see whats best.

Thanks for the help,

Rachel

I've tried them on cucumber but they didn't seem keen, is zuccini the same as courgette? sorry to sound daft!

Funny you ask, I am not so sure either! Never heard of Courgette. Maybe Emmaj is along soon, she should know! Btw, your fish have the same taste about cucumber then I do....not good...grin....

i know a man who kept 6 large oscars in a 55 gallon tank so he could sex them and allow them to pair up. oscars are a lagrge so. american preditors. he was able to do this with frequent large water changes. in a small tank like yours bad things like amonia spikes can happen quickly. i read an artical in one of the fish mags that said a 50% water change provides the best resusts. any thing above that is good but the benefits are much lower. on my goldfish i only want bio and mechanical filtration i do not use any carbon in any of my tanks. the good thing about the power filters is you can put any thing in the filter you can run it to remove only waste, you can put bio material in it to keep water quality high or you can use it as it comes to remove both. i used to have a 55 gallon tank and i had a large aqua clear with bio only chem stars in it. you have had your fish for 18 months so you are do ok. the one thing that i would change is garel removal. tha gravel and decorartions are for you the goldfish don't care they take up space that could be better used as extra water. with out the gravel you can keep the tank cleaner and not have to worry about about a golfish getting gravel stuck in his mouth. :goldfish if ypu feed zuccini cut the rind (spelling) so that after the fish are done the rind will lay flat and not little circles fish have been trapped in this and die. :goldfish an easy way to judge water quality is look at the tails and look for red streakes. the tail should be clean with no red.

Ok, i have bought the goldies a bag of peas, non minted this time, as you say they will last them a lifetime! I think i'll have to help them out.

I'm not sure the aquaclear 20 filter is available here, would the fluval 104 be good instead? I think an external filter would be a better as space is restricted as it won't take up as much room in the tank. I'd like to have a couple of types in mind before i go to the store incase they don't have a huge stock.

There are no red streaks on my goldies, only a little red patch on Berry's nose, but that has been there as long as i've had him.

Thanks for all the help,

Rachel