Hi Folks.

I have been helping a friend with her fish via email, and shes just sent me some photos of how they currently look. If these were my fish it would be an emergency, so I hope its ok to post here. First off, it seems Ich and FinRot came into her tank with a new arrival. I dont know the size of her tank, but shes a relatively experienced fish keeper, and her nitrite and ammonia levels are at 0, her Nitrate levels are less than 20. Shes using "easy balance" to counteract a drop in pH everytime she water changes. ( she says its now relatively constant). I dont have all the details on her tank, but havent hit upon any reason that would make me think these fish are in particularly bad conditions. What I need help with is, what would you do next if your fish looked like this?











Shes already started a dose of King British Fin Rot Meds ( I dont know them.) as clearly the fin rot is rather major... She has tried one full course of Ich treatment but to no avail. She doesnt seem to have a hospital tank, or spare tank, that I can tell. This has happened over the course of a week, so we are rather late to the scene! help please, I'd like to save some fishies! Should she water change and abandon the finrot meds, and go for warm temps and Ich treatment? or treat with salt? or? suggestions please, I would be really grateful!

Pea

p.s. *touch wood* I havent seen Ich before on fish, well not to this extent, so I dunno whether i am right to panic abit at how much of it there is???

Yes, tell her to abandon the ich medications. They are often more trouble than they are worth. Instead, get her to go with the salt treatment. The salt treatment should also include a heater if she want the salt to work faster. Are you familiar with the salt treatment?

Keep in mind, the salinity level must be raised to the desired level before the water is to be heated.


Post back soon.

well thats about as bad as it can get isnt it.
has she covered the tank ?
this is what i would do.
up the temp to 80 and try to get protozin and double the dose and add lots of aeration too. ich can be very stubborn and if the fish is weak too then it will latch itself to that fish all the time. can she get any live food in to him or some medigold. i havent enough to send i'm afraid. humm, i wouldnt personally do salt baths. wish i could help more but my brain is closing down on me.

Tell her to check the ich medication ingredients. Some actually contain salt.

my calico looked as bad as her fish toothy and the salt finished him off, dunno seems a no win situation here.

meds in this country dont list the ingredients.

I'd try using the ssalt medication.Hopefully the fish are going to be ok!!

Well, I can see that there is all types of advice coming from all corners right now. Wich to take is the question now. Allow me to elaborate:

I don't think that these fish are really in for another round of questionable medications that can possibly contain some very harsh additives. I mean, the last thing you want to do is go dumping chemical after chemical into the water without knowing exactly whats in it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of the above packaged treatments do not work but ich is almost always treatable with salt (and is therapeutic too boot). In those cases where salt seemed to have killed the fish, the (harsh) medications would definitely have. In truth, its the ich that killed the fish, the treatment just wasn't administered in time.


Whatever gets done for these fish, it needs to be soon.

First of all, the salt is the best and first thing to reach for. Medication is often the culprit that pushes a fish over the edge. Unfortunatly, those same meds is too often what is reached for first and too late, realized they are not working the miracle cure. Then by the time one does do the salt, the fish has been stressed beyond the limits and ultimatly succumbs. Tail rot is a secondary infection caused by the parasites. Proper treatment is to treat the parasite first, then treat the fin rot.

Secondly, medicated foods at this point are good also, ones that sink. A sick and weakened fish often is to weak to struggle to the surface to eat and its much easier to eat food that is at the bottom where it does not have to use the energy swimming and struggling to the surface to eat.

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...7&name=Diseases

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...ame=Medications

If you look at other medications at this point, there's also a list of them in the articles at KV.

Toothy, your so right on!

Brill, thanks so much for all your help!

I have mailed her, asked her to clear the tank of meds as quickly as she can ( not in a 100% water change but a little more gently.) Then salt the tank to 0.3% , a teaspoon per gallon ( UK) , wait 12 hours, and repeat etc. Good Aeration, Raise tank temp to 80F, and she should see a results in 48 ish hours.
I have warned her that the fish are delicate now, and they might not react great to all of this... I have to say I find it hard to weigh up the risk of environmental change causing shock, vs treating the issues, I dont want her to rush thru with the process and shock the fish, but on the other hand it does need treating asap...

I am sending her some medigold today, hopefully it will be there in time to be of some use.

Thanks very much for all your suggestions and links

Just a quick update. My friend went to the vet, who pretty much agreed with Sandy, and said the salt may well finish them off. So shes opted for Ich treatment, and has separated the one that looks alot more healthy and bought a new tank. ( That could in future be used as a much needed quarantine tank!) Shes already lost one, but we are now routing for the others.

Thanks again peeps.

Pea x

thanks for the update pea.

like i said you have to know the point of no return when using salt as a medication.
if used when the fish is really bad then it does more harm than good and the internal organs stop working.

hope the fish get over this pea but she may lose the sickest as ich is very damaging when it takes a hold as strong as what that poor fish has.

as oner who just lost ALL his gold friends to Ich (DEATH TO AL ICH!)..I wish you the best.. mine were too weak and all succumbed relatively soon. Guess i didnt see it sooner.. when i did.. all the tails were covered with ich cystslooked like the peas they ate had crumbled around their tails.. not that hasnt happened before.. but when I realized it was ich... it was too late


RIP: Psycho, Whitefish, Blue, Calico, Gold & Silver
(and 4 of the oto's and the brief visitor.. the Pleco)


i hope she gets some out of all this

Rob

Ugh! All vets & advice are different, but personally, Imho, a lot of the vets are not as up to date or involved with goldies & koi as Doc J. is.

I have my reasons for seeing things this way, when my koi got poisoned, a so called fish vet diagnosed khv, svc, then formalin & salt..... blamed everything but what was actually going on, regardless of the proof I provided.

According to her, herbicides are not poisonouse. If had listened to her nonsense I'd have lost all my fish.

However, the pics are pretty sever as far the infestation go's, caught sooner would have been heaps better!

Hope they do improve and get through it though!

I'm glad you said it first , Kathy.

I was just going to comment on wether or not this vet was "up to date". I for one feel that there is no possible way that malachite green, formalin or any of the other most commonly used ich meds are less harmful than salt. That just goes against every single thing I have ever learned. Not to mention what I have personally witnessed many times over........... <_<

Regardless, I really hope that these fish make it through treatment, they really are some beautiful goldies!


Any updates?

Well, there's good and bad, but keeping a eye on things and nipping it in the bud is really the key with a touch of heaps of research and understanding!

I have to agree Toothy, those are pretty goldies! Any news PP?