well.. they arent pregnant or constipated or what.. (after the peas.. I thought the residue had ended up on the tails.. )
nope.. it's ich! just raised the temp and added salt..

how does one measure 3% salt on a hydrometer?? it Is registering on my hydrometer.. just low.. but I will go this route vs the medication route..
if i lose the oto's..well..
and the culprit?? could be the pleco that was added 2 weeks ago.. not sure.. but either way.. I'm treating it now.. and it's all the goldies.. which is a 55 gal tank!

any other suggestions??

(oh for those on trivia.. "Behold Ick" was the name of an outer limits episode...)

Hmmm... 55G that's loads, to get a 0.3% salt solution you must mix 1 tablespoon of salt to a 1 gallon of water so 55G is like 55 tablespoons of salt...

1 Gallon = 1 Tablespoon
55 Gallon = 55 Tablespoon

As measurements for bigger capacities of water you can go with the lb version - 1 lb of aquarium, solar, rock salt for every 100 gl of water. With a 55 gl, you would need a tad over 1/2 lb. Gets rid of all the spoon counting!

You don't need a hydrometer for 0.3 solution. You could accidentally dose 3 times the amount without killing them.

Tell you what... I used to measure the exact solution by the 1 gallon per whatever spoons of salt, now i just taste them see if it's a tiny bit salty or not.

Btw: Im fantailfan in goldfishutopia.com

Thats 1 tsp per gallon, via 3 doses over 3 day's , 12 hours apart. It has to be raised slowly so as not to shock the fish.

IMHO, drop salt test kit might be handy under the circumstances!

I was looking for a salt test.. (the stores here were out)

also.. what about Aquarisol?? i was recommended to that product.. for my tank.. it's about 3ml a day

we are just worried about the fish...

Well, IMHO, there's too many "I'm a wonder drug" aka snake oil tonics & medications on the loose. <_<

Here's a couple of articles by Doc Johnson, very beneficial!

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...7&name=Diseases

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...ame=Medications

couldnt get your links to work.. but I did read the article on here previously on using salt and 80 degrees. still not sure how to measure 3% salt in a 55 gal tank. gonna look for the salt test today also

just worried about the guys...


R

True enough, but testing for 0.3% is just giving yourself headaches.

Rob, you only have to go to koivet.com and read the articles. On the left hand side under articles., one is listed under Diseases the other is under medications. The ich is titled freshwater itch, as that is what it is.

1/2 tsp per gallon=0.1%. to reach 0.3% you do this 3 x's over 12 hour intervals.

ok.. it's testing for 0.3% (whew.. not 3%)
and I tested with the pond salt test. and got 0.1% (so far).. so it does work! (yeah!)

any opinions on quick cure?? or Aquari-Sol?? AquariSol is copper salts.. while QuICK Cure is Formalin & Malachite Green..
I should be patient.. but I see fin rot setting in on a few of them (usually Psycho's tailfins always looked ripped.. and stayed that way for the past year)

ya know.. except for a few of them getting stuck in ornaments (Psycho when he was small.. and Blue more recenetly) I've had NO problems... and any possible issues were fixed with MelaFix (and PimaFix)

now. I've been hit by the twilight zone..(ok.. outer limits)

I mean how often now should I do a gravel vacuum and wqater change?? just did one on Friday.. (like 40%).. and the temp is now up to 80 degrees..
they just all look so miserable in the corner.. huddling (wonder why??)

Rob

Ok, I checked the link, and your right, not all of it copied off.

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...7&name=Diseases

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...ame=Medications

Properly, you have to treat the ich first, then the tail rot.

Quick cure is f/mg, the drawback is you cant have salt in with a formalin product and the Malachite green is light sensitive. Salt & formalin will burn the fish.

I've put in a inquiry about the Aquarisol over in KV.

There's no way to hurry this along, expect it take around 3 weeks, you need to count 6, preferably 10 day's past the last cyst falling off. And generally, the salt should also keep the tail rot either toned down or kill it off. If it doesn't, then there's two options, f/mg or antibiotics. Most try to stay away from the antibiotics as like humans, fish can build immunity's to it.

so.. what now?? I did add some Quickcure... what do I do NOW???????
i mean i'll go now and throw in a filter to get rid of the medication.. will that help??????

Yes, carbon will remove it. *sigh*

Hopefully it hasn't done any damage at this point, and I think the ppm of formalin in things like quick cure are minute enough to not cause sever burns.

That should have put a kink in the tail rot though!

Its a good rule of thumb to alway's cross check medications as some can not be used together while others can!

Hi Rob,

Excellent advice from many. Just to recap. Ich has a complex life cycle. It has 4 phases in its life cycle and only the free swimming stage can be treated by salt and medications.

The reason why your fish are suffering is because they have trophozoites under their skins and it is really annoying. As they won't all mature into trophonts at the same time (the white cyst that your can see). It will be awhile before you can eliminate all the ich. That is also why you must maintain treatment for up to 10 days after the last cyst dropped off. Each cyst contains 100's of tomites so vacuuming the gravel as soon as you see cyst dropping off is a good idea, that way, you remove a lot of tomites in one go and reduce the free swimming population a bit as well.

Kathy is correct is suggesting that you not use QuickCure because it is strong meds and can push a sick fish over the edge. Salt is still the safest treatment around for ich.

The bottomline is this. Once your fish has ich, it will take days for the life cycle to complete and each time you will hit more of the free swimming tomites but a few will escape and start the cycle again and you can't be absolutely sure until 10 days after the cyst dropped off that you are actually free of ich. To put it plainly, the ich has to get worse before it can get better.

BTW, 80*F is a little high. I would have prefered more around 75-76*F. It is true that higher temp will accelerate their life cycle but it also means that there is a chance that they can overwhelm the fish if the treatment regime is not effective. A slightly lower temp will still give you a short life cycle but allow you a margin of error.

Do yout fish have tail rots as well? I didn't pick it up in the eariler posts until Kathy mentioned it.

Good luck! It will be awhile before you see real improvement.

yes.. and I have mela fix for that.. though I have heard salt will work too

I put the carbon and a polyfilter in there to remove the previous meds and i will go with the salt .. the salt test I have is letting me know how far up I am...seems i'm only at 0.14 percent so far.. it is a 55 gal.. and i'm not up on figuring out larger amounts..

just hope I dont lose any of the guys


what about feeding??? or light?

Well, you will need to get the salt level up to 0.3% in the next 12-18 hrs as the ich are multiplying as we type so you can't take too long.

They probably won't be too interested in food but try to feed them some. If they won't eat, make sure all the food are removed and not left to rot.

Light is fine. Salt is indestructible!

Ich is difficult to treat so there is no guarantee but as long as you know what you are dealing with, there is always hope.

DISASTER!!!!!

came down this AM... Whitefish was dead!!

gets worse...
came home from work and dinner...
Psycho, Blue, 4 of the small oto's and the pleco were all dead...

with Calico fading fast...

did a 45% water change.. took out most of the plastic plants... vacumed the entire bottom..
added more salt..
and Calico literally died in my hand!!

I'm down to the two comets... Silver and Gold and 2 oto's.. have a terrible feeling I'm gonna lose everything.. (it's been one of those days.. when everything goes wrong...)

ya know.. up until about a week ago.. everything was fine!!! ###### .... I did a 35% water change on Friday!.. dont even want to look at the specs... might have to scrap everything.. wash it all down... and start from scratch....
really upset... Calico and Blue used to come over to my hand when I did water changes in their own eclipse... say what you will.. but while the otos and pleco are fish.. the Goldies seem to really have personality... how is that possible in a fish?? mammals/dogs and cats I can understand... but the fish really seem to ..well.. sorry.. not been a good day

R

I'm so sorry about your lost. Ich is a nasty parasite because they do the most damage when they are under their skin, feasting on your fish and you just don't know what is going on thinking that they might be improving and then whamo!

If it was the pleco that bought in the ich from the shop tank then it only serve to highlight our call for quarantining all new fish. It is a hard lesson to learn, I'm afraid.

Even if you are planning to start again, you have to make sure that there are no tomites or cyst in the tank or you run the risk of history repeating itself.

yeah gold and silver passed away today...

weird thing... two oto's are still in there...
from what i've now heard.. I will still have to continue the treatment..
though with no fish.. I'll use the quick cure... it says 5 days.. but should it be more????


and afterwards... do i need to strip it all down.. and start from scratch??? ( i know I have to add fish.. but what about the bio-wheels???)
and the gravel???? (and I think i'll start up one of the Eclipse12's as a hospital tank...

oh our conch snail is now kaput (in the mini reef.) I think all i have left there is the peppermint shrimp.. who keeps growing.. and the emerald mithrex crab,,
maybe one hermit too

sorry to ask again..
after a week or so of treatment... (seems the two Oto's are still with me.. go figure!)

once all is finished... how much stripping down do I do???? I've taken out most of the plants and ornements.. and I know I will need to clean the gravel...with just two small oto's.. what do i do???? so I can get the tank ready for adding new goldies...?????

Hi Rob,

I'm so sorry, seemed to have missed your posts. Sorry about gold and silver as well, terrible loses.

I'm not sure why ich has left your oto's alone. The question is, are they on them or not. If they are clear of ich then you only need to wait a week or 10 days while keeping the temp in the high 70's and keep the salt up and all the ich should be dead by the end of that period. If the oto are harbouring ich then it is more problematic as they can end up reinfecting new fish. It is not even a case of cleaning the gravel or not. The ich has to have a live host to sustain the cycle and that is the big question.

I'm so sorry Rob to read this! Ich can kill very fast when there is a lot of the cysts present.

Captk is very much right though. They could be harbouring at this point and I would wait and see, as a rule, three weeks is about the course for salt to do them in, 6-10 day's from the last cyst dropping off.

You can clean up the ornaments though, a bit of bleach in some warm water for a few hours, and then rinse, rinse and rinse again, no smell of bleach should remain. As for the plants, you can apply a dip of formalin, like a bath if your concerned about them harboring something and then rinse well. But as Captk said, its a bit moot as the tomites will not survive without a host.

And when you do add new goldies, make sure you give them a proper quarantine of around 4 weeks, make a good inspection daily when feeding to nip anything in the bud. This is where the aquarisol might come in handy, you can use it for prevention! However, I'm not going to say it will or won't. It appears to be something along the lines of mardels copper safe.

Goldies are pretty smart, and friendlier I think then tropicals.