Hi All

I've been treating Aristotle for the last 2 days with Melafix as he has developed a very small hole in his tail which I thought *might* be finrot (thought I'd start with something very mild rather than just stick antibiotics in as I wasn't sure if it definitely was finrot or just a physical tear). However, the hole is now developing into a definite split, and worse, Fatface has bloody streaks in his tail today. Is bloody streaks a sign of finrot or something else?

What's weirder is that I did a water change and gravel clean 2 days ago as usual and the params were all normal (0, 0, 10 ppm and 8), but when I tested the params today the nitrite has gone up to 0.5 - 0.75 (I can't tell exactly as the stupid colour chart has disappeared but I remember from experience roughly what shade means what level). The nitrates have also suddenly leapt up to 20 ppm. Ammonia remains at 0 and pH is still 8. I haven't changed the filtration at all except for removing the carbon pad before I started with the Melafix, and as I change those once a fortnight anyway it shouldn't make any difference to the biobugs. I haven't changed anything else in the tank nor altered any of the usual routines, except for adding the Melafix. I did rinse out the filter sponges in old tank water, but again I tend to do that once every couple of weeks anyway and it's never have any adverse effect. What's going on?!!!

Stats once more:

30 gallon tank, four 2-3" fantails, Fluval 3 internal filter, live plants & river rock, weekly 40-50% water change with gravel clean, fed twice daily with mixture of Hikari sinking pellets, gelled bloodworms, brine shrimp and daphnia, fresh cocktail shrimp, peas, cucumber, occasional fruit. Behaviour of fish all normal, symptoms: one fish has lengthening hole at the bottom of his tail surrounded by white streaks, another has bloody streaks in tail. Meds added so far: 3 teaspoons of Melafix day before yesterday, 3 teaspoons today. 20% water change today to bring down nitrites and 1 teaspoon of Melafix added again to compensate.

One more thing: I have the following meds available: Kanacyn, Maracyn 1, Maracyn 2, Maracide, Medi-Gold, Melafix, aquarium salt. I can't get any other meds, so please suggest the best option(s) from the above list!

TIA.

Ok, my fish also had and still kinda have the red streaks, they accompanied the red blotches they had (which btw are disappearing) I also noticed they had a case of fin rot. Hmmm..I guess they could possibly be related? Well, from looking around I know Kanacyn treats fin rot as well as other diseases.

Maybe the gravel vac released some built up detritus into the tank thereby overwhelming your filtration. How thick is the gravel base? Since your nitrites and nitrates jumped up rapidly this could be a cause.
I would go the salt route now since it will help with the nitrites. Also cut back on the amount of feed they are getting until the cycle comes around again.
I am not sure how all of those other meds will affect your filter bacteria but if they will kill it I would not use them.

The solution i would try is take out the fish and put him in a bucket for dechlor water. put in a bit of melafix. Make sure you put an airstone in the bucket. If possible set another bucket to the side filled with water, so later on you can move the fish over. Keep doing this until the tank is cycled again.

This way the fish will be out of the harmful nitrites and nitrates. He will be able to heal faster. I have done with this before and it worked great.

As for the gravel cleaning, i only do 1/2 may tank every 2 weeks. I alternate sides, i dont want to disturb any of the bio bugs in there.

good luck.

Thanks both of you. Jetman: how much salt should I add, and is it safe to add it at the same time as the Melafix?

I don't think Kanacyn disturbs biofiltration so that's probably fine to use, but I believe Maracyn does, so I'll forget that. I don't know if Medi-Gold does, but I suspect probably not since it's absorbed internally, rather than left floating around in the water like the others.

The gravel base is about an inch thick. I did the same vacuuming as usual and didn't seem to get much floating detritus afterwards, but I guess it's possible it overwhelmed the biobugs. I'll definitely cut their food down for the next few days.

OK, I found the answer to the salt question myself: KevKoi says 3 teaspoons per gallon gives between 0.7% and 0.9% which I think is a bit high, so I'll add 2 (level) teaspoons per gallon for now and see what happens.

Well I don't want too disagree with Kevkoi since he knows about a thousand times more than me but I would go with 1 tsp. per gallon(will give you around .15% according too my measurements). This will take care of the nitrite uptake by the fish and since your problem does not sound too severe this is where I would start. Once you get the cycle too come around just observe the fish and see if things are getting worse. I would not bombard them now with meds. This will only add uneeded stress too the fish.
You also will have too find out why your filter stumbled in the first place. I see you have a fluval and I have heard they are good filters but I have no experience with them. Sometimes those canisters take a little longer too get going but are by far superior filtration too the HOBs.

Just wanted too add that if you started the medigold you might as well give them the complete dosing. Never feed medigold for less than 7 days and preferably feed for 2 weeks.

Hiya, and thanks again.

I already added 2 level teaspoons p/gallon (actually very slightly less than levelled really - I erred on the side of caution), so I guess that'll have to do for now. Plus the salts have dyed the water faintly greeny-yellow, which I find frankly disconcerting (is this normal for aquarium salt? It was Interpet Aqualibrium).

I haven't started using the Medi-Gold; I thought perhaps I'd wait and see how the salt worked first? I dislike adding too many substances to the water all at once, and of course I need to be mega-careful because of the current cycle problem. HappyGF says salt is effective against finrot, so I'll give it a good try before resorting to anything stronger. How soon will I know if the salt is stopping the finrot?

The only thing that really bothers me though is the red streaks in Fatface's tail... this couldn't be the start of septicemia, could it? If it is, then I'd be inclined to start using antibiotics immediately, knowing how fast and nasty that disease is.

I have absolutely no idea why the cycle's mini-crashed. I've racked my brains and can't think of *anything* I've done which might have irked the biobugs. The Melafix wouldn't have an effect like this would it?

Well since you are going too be stressing if you should use the medigold or not I think you could put them on that without any ill effects. Since all fish are eating it should be a benign treatment and no it will not hurt the filter. The melafix should not have hurt the filter either.
However by adding 2tsp. of salt per gallon too the tank all at once that could hurt the filter. It should always be introduced gradually so as not too disrupt the biological part of the filtration. With that being said just keep an eye on your tank stats and you should be Ok(I already know that you will but just added it in case anyone is following this thread). It should be just a minor stumble by your filter and then you can be back too normal.
Also since you are now at a .3% solution it would be a good idea to put your plants someplace else. A .3% solution of salt will trash most plants.
The best way I can describe healing in the initial stages is that the fish does not look worse. If the fish seems too be going downhill then you should try a different more aggresive route of treatment. I really doubt that will be the road you will have too travel. Since the fish are active and eating just give it some time.

###### - I didn't know I should add the salt over a period of time... oh well, too late to worry about it now! I had already removed the plants as I know they hate salt.

I will *definitely* be keeping an eye on the parameters, oh, and I bought a new nitrites test this afternoon so that I have a colour chart, and the reading is down to 0.25 now, which is not too scary.

I did start them on the Medi-Gold this evening; you're right, I'd have been stressing otherwise! It doesn't actually give instructions about dosage - or indeed about anything, in fact! - so I just fed them as much as they would eat within 2 minutes as usual. Is this right? Should they be fed it once or twice a day?

I'm really sorry to keep badgering the board with my questions!

Emma,
Sorry for the late response but this little thing called work keeps getting in my way.
Medi gold is an antiobiotic and just like when your doctor prescribes it they always say too finish the bottle even if you are feeling better. On the jar of medigold I have it says never use for less than 7 days. I would suggest too use it for 2 weeks. It would also be the only food I gave them. Now is not the time too be adding variety too their diet. There might be some better info on Ricks site but I am not sure and have not used it in quite awhile.
Just feed it like you normally feed them. I would go about 3 times a day all they can consume in a couple of minutes.

Jetman, if I ever meet you I will fall to my knees in front of you, raising my hands in gratitude and joyous supplication.

Well, maybe not, but I'd definitely buy you a beer anyway!

Well since you are from the UK I could go for a nice cold Bass Ale.