Hello!! It's been awhile... lemme give you my params
55 gallon tank for a 10 inch goldfish
water temp 75
ammonia 4.0
ph 7.2
I run a HUGE filter 330 times per hour I think. And it has two 4 carbon filters plus two bio wheels.
10 gallon will be housing 4 albino cories and two upside down catfish
water temp 72
ammonia .5
ph 7.0
20 gallon whisper filter.
Okay here is my issue. I had my 55 gallon tank cycled just perfectly but of course with a goldfish as big as Purdie you always battle ammonia. I picked up all my catfish and realized that they were too small right now to be in the big tank with a big goldie so I started cycling my back up tank. While I was doing that I went ahead and changed Purdies filter and did a water test. As usual the ammonia was a little too high. Did a 30% change with prime retested a day later. The ammonia and ph had acutally gone up in my 55 and stayed the same in my ten. I did a 25% in the 55 and the ammonia has dropped but the ph has gone up. I had to do a partial in my ten because for some reason the temp went up and it was about 85 and I had to bring it down to a cooler level. Which made the params go up. I was pondering how could my cycled tank be doing so bad with a little water change when I realized that everytime I DO a water change the params go through the roof. I was having this same problem when I started cycling. My city water is HORRIBLE!!!! I am using double the amount of Prime and I have let some water sit and distill for about two weeks just to test the levels and I still can't get it under control. This stuff is just toxic. So here is my question? How do I get good water without spending a fortune. Because it looks like the only way I can get this tap water to be somewhat usable is buying a 500 dollar osmosis system. Or just buying 75 gallons of distilled water at nooppee. Neither one of those sounds good to me or my pocketbook. Please help I am desperate!!!!
Full Version: Water Changes Hurting My Fish.
That's not a huge bioload for a 55 gallon tank. I have one fancy who's 10 inches, two that are around 7 inches and 1 that's about 5 inches long in a 55. I have 2.5 ppm ammonia in my tap water and it's not really a problem since I have a good biofilter established in the tank, tho it was a royal pain in the butt back when I was cycling the tank.
How long has the tank been set up?
What kind of filter? a penguin 330? If so, you need more filtration for that tank.
How do you maintain the tank and filter?
When you say that you changed your filter, what do you mean? Never, never change all your filter pads at once. Just rinse them in discarded tank water.
Do you still have the old filter media?
Is your ammonia test a salicylate test? (e.g. the two bottle AP test) Nessler tests will give bogus ammonia readings when using Prime.
Can you post your current readings after the partial water changes? Also, we need to know KH, GH, nitrIte and nitrAte and water temperature. If you don't have those tests a pet store will run them if you take in some water.
I'd also like to see the following info from your tap water: ammonia, pH, KH, GH, nitrIte and nitrAte after it's been dechlorinated.
Your pH went up because the partial water change increased the buffering capacity of your water (KH). Over time your biofilter creates acids which tend to lower pH because your KH gets used up buffering those acids.
How toxic the ammonia is depends on your water temperature and your pH. See http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
If it were me, I'd skip the partial water changes for now and just use amquel to bring ammonia down and buffer with baking soda to keep pH stable until you get your biofilter bacteria happy again.
How long has the tank been set up?
What kind of filter? a penguin 330? If so, you need more filtration for that tank.
How do you maintain the tank and filter?
When you say that you changed your filter, what do you mean? Never, never change all your filter pads at once. Just rinse them in discarded tank water.
Do you still have the old filter media?
Is your ammonia test a salicylate test? (e.g. the two bottle AP test) Nessler tests will give bogus ammonia readings when using Prime.
Can you post your current readings after the partial water changes? Also, we need to know KH, GH, nitrIte and nitrAte and water temperature. If you don't have those tests a pet store will run them if you take in some water.
I'd also like to see the following info from your tap water: ammonia, pH, KH, GH, nitrIte and nitrAte after it's been dechlorinated.
Your pH went up because the partial water change increased the buffering capacity of your water (KH). Over time your biofilter creates acids which tend to lower pH because your KH gets used up buffering those acids.
How toxic the ammonia is depends on your water temperature and your pH. See http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
If it were me, I'd skip the partial water changes for now and just use amquel to bring ammonia down and buffer with baking soda to keep pH stable until you get your biofilter bacteria happy again.
Okay here are the test results.
Tank water:
Ammonia 1 bottle test: .5
2 bottle:2
ph: 6.0
nitrite: .25
kh: 17.9
gh: 89.5
Water temp is 75
I don't have a card reader for the nitrate test so I will have to get that later.
I do run a 330 filter but my only problem with another filter is this. I have five filters for two tanks. I keep getting told I need to go bigger. I understand now that the water needs to be cycled ten times the amount in gallons but as you obviously know it gets expensive to keep replacing filters that i can't use. That's part of the reason why i haven't added anymore fish to Purdies tank. I feel I am right on the line with just him in it. He seems content, is much more active and is no longer getting the sores, so I haven't pushed the issue. When I can come up with a little more cash to sink into yet another filter I will, but for now this will have to do. What would you think of me hooking up some of my extra filters... just a thought. Please understand I love Purdie but so far I have spent in excess of 400 dollars on one fish. I need to be able to work with what I have. The tank has been up and running since June. I got it cycled finally in August but like I said I have been watching the params eeeck back up. The filter itself came with two carbon media sacks plus two bio wheels. It has the option for two more types of media. I didn't know what to put in or how to set that up so I am just using two more carbon bags. I typically rinse all four bags every 2-4 weeks but after about 6 weeks the two main bags get so cruddy and slimey you can't rinse it, and the filter ends up clogging. So I have to replace it with a new one. The tank itself has been really good. I gravel vac once a week and do 10- 20 percent water changes every two weeks. I try to keep it with the filter cleanings. I have fake plants so they get rinsed off every month and the glass itself stays really clean. Every now and then I go over it with the tank brush.
Now my tap water readings.
Ammonia 1 bottle test: .5
ph: 6.8
gh: 53.7
kh: 35.8
The ammonia is a huge improvment over what it was like when I first got the tank. I have decided not to put my cats in with Purdie. They seem to really enjoy the ten gallon set up right now. Purdie is healthy and happy with the water he is in, I just don't want to lose control again. This buffering with baking soda. I have never heard of that... can you elaborate?
Tank water:
Ammonia 1 bottle test: .5
2 bottle:2
ph: 6.0
nitrite: .25
kh: 17.9
gh: 89.5
Water temp is 75
I don't have a card reader for the nitrate test so I will have to get that later.
I do run a 330 filter but my only problem with another filter is this. I have five filters for two tanks. I keep getting told I need to go bigger. I understand now that the water needs to be cycled ten times the amount in gallons but as you obviously know it gets expensive to keep replacing filters that i can't use. That's part of the reason why i haven't added anymore fish to Purdies tank. I feel I am right on the line with just him in it. He seems content, is much more active and is no longer getting the sores, so I haven't pushed the issue. When I can come up with a little more cash to sink into yet another filter I will, but for now this will have to do. What would you think of me hooking up some of my extra filters... just a thought. Please understand I love Purdie but so far I have spent in excess of 400 dollars on one fish. I need to be able to work with what I have. The tank has been up and running since June. I got it cycled finally in August but like I said I have been watching the params eeeck back up. The filter itself came with two carbon media sacks plus two bio wheels. It has the option for two more types of media. I didn't know what to put in or how to set that up so I am just using two more carbon bags. I typically rinse all four bags every 2-4 weeks but after about 6 weeks the two main bags get so cruddy and slimey you can't rinse it, and the filter ends up clogging. So I have to replace it with a new one. The tank itself has been really good. I gravel vac once a week and do 10- 20 percent water changes every two weeks. I try to keep it with the filter cleanings. I have fake plants so they get rinsed off every month and the glass itself stays really clean. Every now and then I go over it with the tank brush.
Now my tap water readings.
Ammonia 1 bottle test: .5
ph: 6.8
gh: 53.7
kh: 35.8
The ammonia is a huge improvment over what it was like when I first got the tank. I have decided not to put my cats in with Purdie. They seem to really enjoy the ten gallon set up right now. Purdie is healthy and happy with the water he is in, I just don't want to lose control again. This buffering with baking soda. I have never heard of that... can you elaborate?
Yea, I wouldn't add anything else to the tank just yet.
It looks like what's happening is that you have tap water with low buffering capacity (KH). KH is bicarbonates. When your biofilter converts ammonia to nitrAte it releases acids. The bicarbonates buffer the acids and keep your pH from getting acidic. Your pH is at 6 which is dangerously low (acidic). You biofilter bacteria don't like pH that low and stop working as well. The good news is that with that low of a pH, 2ppm ammonia isn't toxic.
You can add bioballs or ceramic rings or lava rock for extra biomedia. Also I'd put the the smaller filters on the tank in addition to the filter you currently have on it. I have two different HOB filters on my goldie tank and an UGF.
given your water is low in both general hardness (GH) and buffering capacity (KH), I'd also add some crushed oyster shell, crushed limestone or crushed coral to the filter. Those dissolve when pH drops below 7.5 and will increase both KH and pH. We'll need to move pH up gradually using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) before you do that to keep pH from moving up too quickly. Large pH changes are stressful for fish.
I'm looking at the 2ppm ammonia table on this page
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
to see how high we can take pH with 2ppm ammonia and water temp of 75 without the ammonia getting too toxic. It looks to me like we can take pH up to 7.2 and be fine. You don't want to do that all at once tho. changing pH by .4 per day is the most I like to move it.
I used my baking soda/KH/pH calculator
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/CalKH.asp
and found that you need 1 teaspoon of baking soda to raise KH by 1dh (17.9ppm). that should raise pH by about .4 and you probably won't see an increase in KH from it just yet cuz the bicarb is going to be immediately used to buffer the acids in the tank. Predissolve it in tank water and then pour into a high flow area in your tank, making sure it disperses well. After it's had time to disperse well in the tank, measure pH and KH again. If pH hasn't risen to 6.4, you can add more baking soda in 1/2 teaspoon increments till pH is up to 6.4. Then stop for the day. For the next several days, keep repeating this
tomorrow take it up to 6.8
the next day take it up to 7.2
then, you'll just need to keep an eye on pH and add more baking soda as needed to keep pH around 7.2 for now since you're seeing ammonia.
After you get your biofilter established again it would be good to add the crushed oyster shell or coral or limestone. Those should help keep your pH from getting acidic, but given your tap water is so low in KH, you may still need to use baking soda to increase your KH for partial water changes if you do large partial water changes. Small ones should be ok.
Since you're seeing nitrItes, I'd add the salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. predissolve in tank water and make sure it disperses well when you add it. Be sure to use non-iodized salt with no other additives. NitrIte is toxic. It enters thru the gills and binds up the red blood cells keeping them from being able to carry oxygen. Salt helps protect against nitrIte poisoning because it competes with nitrIte for uptake thru the gills. When you do partial water changes just add 1 tsp of salt per gallon changed till nitrItes come down to 0, then you can skip adding any more salt. Your partial water changes will then remove it over time.
Do you have any ammonia in your tap water?
It looks like what's happening is that you have tap water with low buffering capacity (KH). KH is bicarbonates. When your biofilter converts ammonia to nitrAte it releases acids. The bicarbonates buffer the acids and keep your pH from getting acidic. Your pH is at 6 which is dangerously low (acidic). You biofilter bacteria don't like pH that low and stop working as well. The good news is that with that low of a pH, 2ppm ammonia isn't toxic.
You can add bioballs or ceramic rings or lava rock for extra biomedia. Also I'd put the the smaller filters on the tank in addition to the filter you currently have on it. I have two different HOB filters on my goldie tank and an UGF.
given your water is low in both general hardness (GH) and buffering capacity (KH), I'd also add some crushed oyster shell, crushed limestone or crushed coral to the filter. Those dissolve when pH drops below 7.5 and will increase both KH and pH. We'll need to move pH up gradually using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) before you do that to keep pH from moving up too quickly. Large pH changes are stressful for fish.
I'm looking at the 2ppm ammonia table on this page
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
to see how high we can take pH with 2ppm ammonia and water temp of 75 without the ammonia getting too toxic. It looks to me like we can take pH up to 7.2 and be fine. You don't want to do that all at once tho. changing pH by .4 per day is the most I like to move it.
I used my baking soda/KH/pH calculator
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/CalKH.asp
and found that you need 1 teaspoon of baking soda to raise KH by 1dh (17.9ppm). that should raise pH by about .4 and you probably won't see an increase in KH from it just yet cuz the bicarb is going to be immediately used to buffer the acids in the tank. Predissolve it in tank water and then pour into a high flow area in your tank, making sure it disperses well. After it's had time to disperse well in the tank, measure pH and KH again. If pH hasn't risen to 6.4, you can add more baking soda in 1/2 teaspoon increments till pH is up to 6.4. Then stop for the day. For the next several days, keep repeating this
tomorrow take it up to 6.8
the next day take it up to 7.2
then, you'll just need to keep an eye on pH and add more baking soda as needed to keep pH around 7.2 for now since you're seeing ammonia.
After you get your biofilter established again it would be good to add the crushed oyster shell or coral or limestone. Those should help keep your pH from getting acidic, but given your tap water is so low in KH, you may still need to use baking soda to increase your KH for partial water changes if you do large partial water changes. Small ones should be ok.
Since you're seeing nitrItes, I'd add the salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. predissolve in tank water and make sure it disperses well when you add it. Be sure to use non-iodized salt with no other additives. NitrIte is toxic. It enters thru the gills and binds up the red blood cells keeping them from being able to carry oxygen. Salt helps protect against nitrIte poisoning because it competes with nitrIte for uptake thru the gills. When you do partial water changes just add 1 tsp of salt per gallon changed till nitrItes come down to 0, then you can skip adding any more salt. Your partial water changes will then remove it over time.
Do you have any ammonia in your tap water?
Sorry Data I had problems with my computer but we are back. To answer your question yes there is ammonia in my tap water. It is about .5ppm, but it tends to fluctuate during the month. I have just read your suggestions with the baking soda and will start that tommorrow and see how we do. I will post again and let you know. THANKS for all the wonderful information!!!
You're welcome. Let us know how it's going. 
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