If you remember we were trying to figure (some while back) why the ph level out of the tap was high when the test was showing that I did not have a high kh, gh level. I was using the test strips at that time and now I have the master test kit and a separate kh/gh test. So now I just checked the kh which reads as follows:
tap - 107.4 ppm
guppy tank - 107.4 ppm
goldfish tub - 71.6 ppm

I have tried to test the gh from both the tap first then the goldfish tank.
I'm following the direction exactly, just as the kh test. The water is supposed to turn green when the test is complete. I'm up to 20 drops and the water is still not green, only dark yellow or maybe light orange. The conversion chart only goes up to 16 drops.


I'm going to test the ph right now.

Okay, I just tested the ph using the high range solution.
tap - 8.8
guppy tank - 7.8 using Easy Balance
goldfish tank - 7.4 using Easy Balance

I only use the Easy Balance when I do my partial water changes and only put enough in to treat the new water. This is twice a week. I have been using Prime conditioner.
You know the test strips I used to use did know show the water being this hard.
What do you think, should I keep adding drops to find out the actual gh? I'm not having any problems at all with my fish but we were wondering about this. I know the town I live in is coal mining territory. Probably most of this land has been mined for coal. I know my neighbor hits a lot of shale and my husband does too in a certain part of his garden.

Depending on the bioload in the tank, it looks like your tap water probably isn't high enough in buffering capacity (KH) to maintain your pH unless you're changing out a lots of water.

I'm not sure I'd worry about general hardness (GH) if everyone's doing fine. 1 drop on the GH test is 1dh right? You could go ahead and keep adding drops till it changes and we could convert that to ppm if you want. It's 1dh=17.9ppm.

So is the easy balance keeping your pH stable?
Is that what's lowering the pH? or does pH drop when the tap water is set out and airated?

The Easy Balance is keeping it stable. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing as long as the ph doesn't fluctuate. I've never left any just sit out and then check it. I may do that just to see.

I added 31 drops and the color never did change to green. I'm not going to worry about it but I didn't know our water was that hard. I never have any trouble with hard water deposits on my faucets or anything.

Thanks DataGuru.

I think you tapwater might have Chlormine and prime would have neutralised that but you have ammonium as a result which lowers the pH ... that is just my suspicion as the pH is lower on the goldfish tank that would have more volume.

I dont know if it is connected but i was a heavy Easy Balance user and I found it ate up my nitrates for lunch. I now have resorted to baking soda to raise KH and so keep PH steady.

I have been reluctant to stop the Easy Balance because it does do a good job of keeping the ph stable. My nitrates in the goldfish tub have been 40 for a long time. Which I thought may be a little high but I know it's acceptable.
ammonia and nitrites are 0.

Why not get some crushed oyster shell, limestone or coral?
That would work fine to keep pH stable and you wouldn't be adding all the extra stuff that's in the EB.

That's a good suggestion. I've never used any but I will look into getting some.

Okay, I set my new tank up 3 days ago. I added tap water, prime, 2 cc of ammonia and added used filter media from my goldfish tub. I'm going to cycle it without fish. I did not use the EasyBalance. I just checked my ph and it is 7.8.

So maybe as you suggested in your earlier post, the ph is dropping after the water is set out and airated. I'm going to draw some tap water, add the usual prime and let it set a short while then test the ph and see what it is.

Cool.
I found crushed oyster shell at the feed store for $6 for 50 pounds.

Okay, about the new tank. 3 days ago I started running the new tank. I added tap water, prime, 2 cc's of clear ammonia, used filter media and heated the water. The water reached 85 deg. I figured it was too soon to check the water parameters but did because I was curious. Ammonia was 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 10.
Isn't this way too fast. I'm skeptical of these readings. Going to wait until the water cools off to 70 deg. and then test it again. If I get the same reading I will add some more ammonia and see what happens.

Crushed oyster shells are what some people give to their chickens. I can buy that easy enough. So I can put that in my tank and it will keep the ph stable. If the ph is high from the tank it will lower it?

Sounds promising. How high did the ammonia go with 2cc ammonia?

I just instantly cycled a 30 gallon tank with two plecos in it (one that's like a foot long and the other about half that size) instantly by pulling seasoned filter pads from the goldie tank on it.

The oyster shell won't lower pH. It'll just dissolve when pH drops below 7.5 and should keep pH stable. My dilemma is since your water is already hard, over time, adding any of the minerals to leach KH will also increase hardness. Baking soda would actually be better for raising KH, cuz it doesn't affect GH, but it has to be added at each partial water change.

Did you check with your local water company to see if they're adding anything e.g. soda ash or sodium hydroxide to increase pH? I should probably go read the old thread again. I'm am getting senile in my old age!

jhansolo: This page: http://www.r-can.com/images/ph-scale.gif
indicates that ammonia is a strong base.

[QUOTE]Okay, I spoke with the water man. He said they do not add sodium hydroxide He said they add the following: chlorine, soda ash, aluminum slufate, flouride.


I've been testing the tap water regularly, it's always 8.8. I drew 2 quarts and added prime and let it set about an hour and tested it, was still 8.8. Maybe I should just keep using the Easy Balance. It does lower the ph immediately and seems to keep it stable. I hate to pull any changes on my fish.

That's amazing. I didn't know you could cycle a tank instantly. That's why I was so skeptical about my new one. I have turned off the heat and when the temp drops to 70 deg. I'll test it again. If It's okay I guess I add 2 of my fish.

2 cc's brought the ammonia to 1.0. Was that enough?

Wow! According to the link you gave me any tap water that has ph above 8.5 is not fit to drink. I've been using a Britta filter. Hope that's good enough. Some time back it was 8.4. But here lately it's been steady 8.8

Interesting. The soda ash is what they're using to increase pH without increasing KH. That means it'll come out of the tap with high pH but won't hold that pH well over time cuz there isn't enough carbonates to keep pH from falling as the biofilter produces acids. Man, and I thought my water was troublesome. I agree about reducing the pH before adding it. I just don't like all the extra stuff in the easy balance. *grumble*

I'd want to verify the pH range for drinking water they give. I just hit their main page and it looks like they sell water filters.

On the instant cycling, you just have to have enough biofilter bacteria to handle the ammonia being produced in the tank. That's the benefit of running multiple filters on a tank cuz you can steal one or two to cycle a new tank. Can't wait to hear how long the new tank takes to convert the 1ppm ammonia you added. I'd bet you'd be safe to put the goldies, their filter, etc in the new tank since the filter on the existing tank is already handling the bioload there. By moving everything, you'd be moving most of your biobugs to the new tank and it should be ok. better safe than sorry tho.

When fishless cycling, people usually start out with 5ppm ammonia till they see nitrIte happening. then they decrease the amount of ammonia to 2-3ppm until nitrIte drops to 0ppm. Doing it that way, the biofilter should be able to handle around 3ppm ammonia per day.

So are you close to OKC? We have an aquarium club that's pretty cool.
http://petsforum.com/okcaa/

Looks like a great club. I don't live anywhere OKC though. We live in Southeastern Ok.

About the cycle, I was so suprised because I'm not actually moving everything. Ammonia was 1ppm when I first added it and 3 days later it was 0ppm. All I did was put 1 used filter and 5 gals. of established tank water. Everything else is brand new. I added some more ammonia to see how it handles it. I'm not putting all my golfish in there. I'm keeping 3 of them in the porch pond. There in a tub for the winter. I'm going to put my black moor and my red cap oranda in the new tank. Cycling this new tank is just going so much faster than I thought.

Thanks for explaining the kh to me. That explains why the ph was lower on the new tank water after 3 days. I didn't add the Easy Balance to it because no fish in there. Ph lowered itself after 3 days but now I know why.

Okay, it's been 5 days now and I just took a reading. ammonia 0, nitrites .25 this seems more realistic to me. This is after lowering the temp to 74 deg. and adding some more ammonia.

So when are you going to consider it cycled?
Wen it can clear 1ppm ammonia in a day without having nitrIte showing?

Yes, and when it has a small nitrate reading.

Cool.
I think I'd be adding ammonia daily, so the ammonia eaters don't starve.

Yea, Ive been doing that.
I've never been too good with chemistry, but I've been having fun checking the progress of this tank.

So how's it goin?

Okay, it took 9 days to cycle. I was feeding it 2 cc's of ammonia each day the last 4 days. So the morning following the 9th day I checked it and got readings: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 nitrate. So I was really pleased with that. I have put 2 goldies in there and its been holding those readings.

It really went faster than I thought. I didn't put any gravel in because I'm leaving the bottom bare with the exception of a few glass stones. Everything was new except I did put used filter media but the bio sponges were new.

I'm really enjoying it

Awsome!!