Hello everyone!

This is my first post here and I am am in great need of your help! I posted on another sight 2 days ago and I have not had a single reply!

My poor goldfish had what looked like a worm at the base of his dorsel (sp?) fin. I prepaired a qu tank and transfered him into it after the water became room temperature. By this time the "worm" was no longer noticible. I don't know if it fell off or worked its way into my goldfish! The wound was white with a bit of red. I have added 3 tsp of salt to his 5 gallon qu tank and have treated with melafix for two days. The wound has swollen/grown and is very white with some red. He has clamped his fins a few times but is still swimming around and eating. I cannot get a good look at him because he is in a bucket.

Does any one know what is wrong, and how I can make him better?

Thanks for any help you can give! I am so worried!

NitaSher

(I only have a nitrite tester and it reads fine. He eats goldfish flakes and worms as a treat.)

hi there and

youve come to the right place my friend! we try to get help to each and every person requesting it in as timely a manner as possible.

to be quite sure, could you look at this link and tell me if this is what you saw?

anchor worm (learnea)

keep in mind that each of these worms has a fork at the end that dangles off the fish. ive personally seen anchor worm at almost a full inch long! so, they can get pretty big as parasites go. not to worry though, if you treat immediately and are vigilant enough, these little buggers will just be a pain in the neck for a while. your fish should survive nicely.

check out this link for a good treatment for lernea:

treating anchor worm

i highly suggest getting dimilin for these worms as it will cause each and every anchor worm to become sterile so they will die without breeding. some people like to pick them off as they show up, some dont. should you decide to pick them off as they show, make welll and sure to swab the site of penetration with hydrogen peroxide or povidone iodine (household).

by the way, since the infected fish was in your main tank already, your going to want to put him back in and treat the whole tank and all the fish the same.

good luck and let us know how its going.

paul

Thank-you Paul! Do anchor worm disappear after a few hours? I'm just wondering if it could be something that has burrowed inside of poor Goldie! With his sore I am afraid of putting him back into the main tank. (30 g with pleco and another goldfish.) Will melafix and salt be helpful or harmful until I can get to my LFS tomorrow morning to get meds?

I have so many questions but also 3 little boys who are mad men right now and need me.

Anita

not a problem.

well, anchor worm doesnt burrow all the way into the skin but when its life is spent it can fall off or perhaps it can un-attach itself to move around, i actually dont know too much about its life cycle other than its a direct one. rest assured, its not burrowing into your goldie.

well, did you get a good look at the link i provided? did those worms look anything like what you saw on yours?

also, just for good measure, could you answer all of the questions from the white box above these posts as best you can? itll really help with diagnosing and treating.

heh, better go tend to your little men there, when you get a breather, well be here.

paul

Ammonia------?
Conditioner---AquaClear
Nitrate---------?
Additive-------Cycle
Ph tap---------?
Food-----------Flakes, worms, algea waffers
Ph-------------?
Unusual Behavior--slower moving, hiding, shaking/vibrating occasionally
Nitrite---------0
Tank Size----25-30 gallon, running 4 months
Water Change---5 gallons every week
How Many Fish---3 fish; one goldie 4 inches, one sherbunkin (sp) 2 inches, one pleco 4-5 inches
The goldfish moved into this tank one month ago but I have had them for 6 months.

His dorsal fin is clamped now but that is the injured one. It looks like he is loosing scales over the sore and now has three bright red spots on the swelling. There is no sign of the worm but the white bump, lump, growth is fuzzy.

I really didn't get a good look at the worm on goldie before it fell off, (the three boy thing plus it is a hexagonal tank which makes it hard to have a really good look at anything! LOL) so I cannot tell if it is the same. It is hard to judge size from a picture. The worm was about 4mm long.

Thank-you very much for your patience! I am very lucky to have found this sight! Goldie thanks you as well!

Anita

Hi Anita,

Besides the worm, it looks like there might be secondary infection over the wound. I would suggest that you clean the wound once with iodine, that should help with healing. If you are not sure how to do that, just ask.

Good luck! Watch Goldie closely for the next few days.

Well, I went out and bought a 5 1/2 gallon tank for Goldie (and any other future sick fish) and I am planning on moving him when I am sure the water is at room temp. This way I will be able to see more than just the top of him.

I went to my LFS this morning and bought the only parasite med that they had, Dyacide. Has anyone used this product before? I have live plants in the tank Goldie came out of and I plan on treating this tank as well. Paul--The owner of the LFS tells me that the anchor worm HAS burrowed its way into Goldie but sometimes he is "out to lunch"!

Well I will keep you posted! Oh, one more thing, how many airstones should I add to the 5 gallon with meds?

Thanks,

Anita

I am starting to think that maybe I should do a salt dip for Goldie's infection before I put him in the new tank. Would this help the meds or would the salt take away too much of his slime coat then the meds would hurt him?

Ahgg! I have too many questions! I love that keeping fish isn't an exact science, I just don't want to do more harm than good to my poor fish!

Thanks again!

Anita

Hi Anita,
I've never used Dyacide so I can't really comment but I googled the name and it seems to cover the right type of parasites so it should be okay. The usual meds for anchor worm is Dimilin which is available as Anchors Away.

Anytime you are treating a sick fish and dosing with meds, it is a good idea to increase aeration. How much will depend on the size of the air pump and air stone. I would be very generous with the aeration. You can never over aerate a 5 gal tank (if you are sensible). If the bubbles are generating too much turbulence, you can make a simple partition out of a piece of plastic file dividers cut to size.

It is true that for certain parasites, it is a good idea to stripe the slime coat as the parasites are using the slime coat as a shield. However, the active ingredient of Dyacide is Dylox (an Insecticide) and I don't know if that will burn the fish's skin. Maybe others will have more info.

Thanks captk, for your efforts! I am right now slowly draining about halve the bucket of water that Goldie is in and I am going to replace the water with newer/cleaner water that is the same as the water I have put into the 5 gallon qu tank. Then I will wait a bit (?) before putting him in the tank or giving a salt bath. What is the quantity of salt for a bath? I believe I read somewhere 1 tsp/cup of water.

I will now do my own research (can't imagine why I didn't think of that myself) and find out all I can about Dyacide!

Anita

P.S. I am so glad to have found this sight! Thanks, for the bottom of Goldie's heart!

Not a problem, Anita. Glad to help.

A salt dip is usually 2-3% concentration. This is the part I hate because there are so many different ways to express that in various measuring things. I'll give you the metric version first as it is most correct. 2% is 20grams per liter of water. 3% is 30g/L. 1 gal is 3.8L and 1g = 0.035 oz. So you would need 2.7oz for 2% in 1 gal or 4oz/gal for 3%. You better check my maths.

Just be careful. The poor fish would not like that high concentration and it will roll over within a minute or less. When that happens, remove him to a clean bucket of fresh tank water (with an airstone) immediately and wait for him to recovery. It will be stressful to both of you so think twice before doing it. Good luck!

You make a very good point, captk! I am quite stressed as it is! lol I think I will for-go the salt dip for now unless I get a great big OK from someone who has done it under the same set of conditions or if the Dyacide doesn't work! Goldie is really enjoying the new water going into the bucket! He is practicly dancing in the slow trickle!

Anita

well, honestly, i have no idea where your lfs clerk got his information from but, anchor does not and cannot burrow into the skin. they attach themselves to your fish like a tick doeas, thats it.

you can eliminate these worms manually without medications. it just takes a bit longer. in doing this, youll need to pick them off as they appear. of course, cleaning the infected site as i mentioned before would keep the fungus and bactreria from invading the wound until it can heal itself.

salt dips are a vey good way of getting rid of quite a few different parasites. im not sure of the efficacy of salting on anchor worm but, ill bet itll at least make life miserable for them. the medication you should keep an eye out for is called anchors away, or any other med that contains dimilin. this is the safest medication around that will take care of the worms. you can get it online very cheaply and it can even be sent out 2 day air if need be. try this place:

http://www.pondrx.com/store/customer/produ...8&cat=16&page=1

i know for a fact that this is a very reputable site with tons of the best medications available. as i said before, you can even get it sent out 2 day air if youd like.

you know, there is always the chane that youve got more than one parasite in there. flukes are just about the most prevalent one besides ich. after youve successfully treated your goldies for anchor worm(i suggest doing so in the main tank with all the other fish) if these erratic swimming patterns and bahaviors persist, id be willing to bet that flukes are at work here too. but well cross that bridge when we come to it.

your new little hospital tank isnt useless right now, id suggest that you get it cycled (you got a filter for it right?) the fishless way and have it sitting on standby for any problems you may have in the future. also, its a very good idea to use the little tank as quarentine for a month before introducing them to any other tanks. this will surely keep parasites from becoming a problem becuase youll be able to identify and treat them before they come in contact with your healthy fish.

by the way, what are the ingredients in the med that you purchased?

also, in the future, try to take any and all advice that you get from your lfs with a grain of salt. they are notorious for giving out bad information (as you can see by the way yours told you that anchor worms can go internal).

post back soon.

i almost forgot,

since it seems that you dont have test kits, you really should get them. otherwise, you have no possible idea how much water you actually need to change each week. if you dont change enough water weekly, the nitrates can rise to very very toxic levels and can lead to all sorts of problems.

also, anytime you ever see something going on in your tank that isnt normal, the forst thing you should do is test for all the levels (ammonia/nitrIte/nitrAte/ph/kh). this is because 90% of the time, poor water quality is to blame. as with nitrAtes above, you wont know how much water to change at that time unless you know the levels.

besides having a good strong bio-filter, the next important thing you can have for your fish are these test kits, just ask anyone on this board, theyll happily agree.

The ingredients in Dyacide are:

Dimethyl (2,2,2,-Trichloro-1-Hydroxyethyl) Phosphonate

It works on Gill Flukes, Anchor Worms, Fish Lice, Parasitic Copepods, and Pinpoint Sores

Now, LFS "guy" is the owner and a nice person, unless you start to show him that you know afew things too! (He tried to tell me that my tropical fish didn't need a heater! lol There is snow here for 6 months of the year!) He also told me that the only test kit I needed was the nitrite. This is the only place, besideds nooppee, to buy aq suplies.

I have a little (little) filter for this tank. Only room for a sponge. I was under the impression that a quarintine tank doesn't need a filter. Besides, I already have four tanks going with lights, filters, heaters and airstones. My DH would not understand having an empty tank sucking any more power.

I fear if I put Goldie in the big tank I won't be able to keep a close enough watch on him. Too many places to hide. The Meds bio-degrade rapidly in water, says the package, and must be "disgarded" after three days. There is enough in the bottle to treat 600 gallons. I can treat both tanks without any fear of running out before I must throw it out!

If I put him in the 5 gallon, will he need somewhere to hide? Should I add the little filter?

Thanks guys! You are being so helpful!

Anita

well, when your dealing with bacterial infections and the like, removing them to a hospital tank is optimal. when parasites are concerned, you have to attack the source of the problem first. otherwise, they will most probably return unless total eradication is achieved.

heres a little excerpt i borrowed from a fact sheet:

------------------------------
Only the females of this parasite actually parasitises the fish, she has a long body with an anchor like appendages at the head. By means of these the adult sticks to the fish since the anchor penetrates under the scale and into the muscle of the fish, where it feeds.

Reproduction takes place in May/June whereby the male anchor worm then dies. Two egg sacs are produced at the end of the females body, from these eggs the larvae hatch and swim freely until they come into contact with the fish, they then commence the cycle again.

The adult female still feeding on the host fish then soon dies, often leaving large holes with round openings in the muscles of the fish. These wounds sometimes heal very slowly but often become infected with bacteria and fungus (sound familiar?) and unless treated will often die from these secondary infections.
-------------------------------

if youve introduced anything new to the tank from another tank (fish, plants ornaments, bio-media), its likely that it brought young anchor worms into the fold. now, if it was an anchor worm, i think youll agree that you might have more young swimming about in your main tank as we speak. this is precisely why i suggest that you treat (with dimilin) in your main tank.

also, the meds that you bought contain several chems that can cause your bio-filter to stumble. in treating the main tank with this, it would compromise the water quality and compound the symptoms. so, you might want to try to save it or take it back for a refund. anchors away is 100% safe for the bio-filter and your fish.

i know this sounds like a lot of hullabaloo and im trying to get you to spend all of your money on your fish. the truth is, i am. however, once you have the test kits/dimilin and youve successfully treated them, it goes right back to just being general upkeep. that entails weekly nitrate/ph testing and waterchanges to keep them below 40ppm.

by the way, as far as using a hospital tank without a filter goes, you can pretty safely do so as long as you never let the ammonia rise. you can achieve this by utilizing a product like amquel or ammo-lock or prime along with waterchanges. these are detoxifiers and if you use it accordingly, youll never have "free" ammonia around in the tank.

paul

Excellent advice from Paul and highly educational as well (at least for me ). On the point of a filter for the hospital tank, some people gets a small "hang over the side" type of power filter and use that in tandem in the main tank. If there is ever a need to set up the HT, you just unhook the small filter from the back of the main tank and voila! instant cycled filter. Of course, that is extra cost but it does give you extra filtering on the main tank. Just food for thought.

Wow! Thanks again Paul! Very educational, indeed! I am going to put Goldie into the qu tank because of the infecton. I can also see him easier. I am feeling rather useless! All of this great information yet I can't "do" anything!

Good news! My brother, who lives in a much bigger city, is coming to visit tomorrow and has gone to a pet store for me! But, of course, they don't have anchors away either. He is getting something called Clout. The lady I spoke to says that it will not mess up the biological filter in my tank! Here's hoping!

I will keep you posted!

Anita

I've used clout before, it works. I know this sounds kind of "weird" but when I get new plants from the store (usually meijer's and you can never tell what's in their water) I put the plants in my qu tank, and treat with clout prior to adding them to my fish. I figure I would rather eliminate parasites prior to going in with my babies.

Note on discount store tanks (meijer, nnnnnn, etc): some use the same water for ALL the tanks, just circulate it through all the fish. So if one fish has a disease, they all do.

And I would like to add I like the idea of having the small extra filter running in the larger tank. Makes sense, duh! I'm learning new stuff about Goldfish and their care all the time! (and this is good since I have sooooooooo many!)

oops, almost forgot, here's the info off the clout bottle:


A very strong and effective medication for parasitic and protozoan infestations. Treats: ich, hydra, leeches, planaria, epistylis, trichodina, hexamita, tetrahymena, body fungus, digenetic flukes, parasitic copepods, monogenetic flukes and anchor worms. Use 1 tablet for every 10 gallons every 24 hours for at least 4 days.

I love the idea of an extra small filter on my bigger tank for use in a qu tank. I think I'll try it out.

My brother brought the Clout. I read the ingredients only to find the same stuff in Clout as there is in Dyacide. Plus Clout has many more ingredients. Also, the Clout package says it might harm nitrifying bacteria and not to use with bottom feeders. (Is a pleco a bottom feeder?)

As I sit here in my indecision poor Goldie is getting worse. He is opening his mouth very big for a second or two. On the bright side, he is still eating!

Ahhg!

Anita

nmtsaki--On my box of Clout it says one treatment should be adequate.

Anita

He is now slamming himself sideways onto the side of the tank. I think he is trying to scratch. I'm going to go with the Dyacide treatment because:

a ) I have it
b ) It has fewer ingredients than Clout
c ) I just must DO something!!

I will treat in about 2 hours, when I will be able to watch closely! I'm so scared! Hold me! lol

Anita

Anita, be brave!
The koko's support team is on standby. <Big hugs> from everyone.

sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. My bottle of clout says nothing about duration of treatment, except when fish "looks healthier". I took excerpt I posted below from the website I purchased it from. I found it to be very effective, with little effect on the fish. The blue color disappears after a couple of hours. It does say to take out the carbon from the filter, since it may render clout ineffective, but nothing about the biological filter. After the treatment has been effective, do a 50% water change. I did a little experiment of my own however. I had some flukes in my pond, which were attached to some plants. The little bug (gers) were clinging to the side of the bucket. I put 1 tablet in there, and they were dead the next day. I have also used the recommended dosage with BABY fish, (1 inch) with no ill effects. So be brave! Do it for your little guy! And we'll all keep our eyes, fingers and toes crossed for you!

--Nancy

Thank-you for the encouragement! I need it!

Well, I gave Goldie his first dose of Dyacide. My hands were shaking as I put 5 drops into his tank. He was laying on the bottom and starting to tip a bit. Within minutes of the meds he started to swim! The next time I went to check on him (5 minutes?) he swam right up to me and did his "feed me" dance!

His side still looks horrid, but he seems to be feeling much better thanks to all the help I have received here! He has two more doses to go and I'm going to keep a close eye on him for infection.

"Big Sigh"

I am going to treat my larger tank as well with the same meds unless someone tells me it would be harmful to my plants or, more importantly, my pleco.

Thanks!! Big Thanks!!!

I guess that counts as one treatment, and the fish appears healthier! Good for you and Goldie!

I did want to correct my earlier post: I meant to type flatworm (planeria, as listed on bottle, which is visible to naked eye) instead of flukes (not always visible to naked eye). Those were my poor unsuspecting experimental subjects. However, my babies appeared to have gill flukes. And they did get better with treatment.

My bottle doesn't say anything about bottom feeders, so I think your pleco will be fine (if it's the same ingredients as in clout). They are usually sensitive to some types of meds, due to their lack of scales. So keep an eye on him.

Again, glad to hear goldie's doing better (along with you!)

--nmt

that is indeed good news!

yes, keep treating him with what youve got right now. once a day, perform a 75-100% waterchange and add fresh meds. this will keep him in clean water and fresh medications.

well, to be honest, its up to you wether you treat your main tank with the dyacide or not, because youve got a pleco in there (its a scaleless fish), he might experience difficulties. heres what you can try:

pull the pleco out and into a receptacle full of water. add the meds per gallon of water in the receptacle and watch. if you see the pleco acting weirdly (heavy breathing, turning pale) pull it out immediately. if it acts normal for more than an hour or so, he should be able to handle it and youll be able to treat in your main tank. however, youll need to be testing the water morning and night to make sure that your bio-filter doesnt stumble and the ammonia/nitrIte levels jump.

good luck with the treatment, if youve got more questions, just fire away.

Well done, Anita! Excellent results.

Thanks for the encouragement and pats on the back! It is quite an ordeal to go through alone so I am very happy to have found this site and people who care about the little creatures. Most of my friends don't understand why I would go through all the time and expence to try to "heal" my goldfish. One person, who I will not name (he got me the Clout), suggested it would be cheaper to flush and start over. (He was joking!) They all laugh! My DH doesn't understand, but he is encouraging. He even called from work to ask about Goldie!

Anyhow...Goldie is still doing well. He is starting to get a little fuzzy on his wound so I was thinking of using some melafix at the same time. Do you think this would be OK?

Toothless--Thanks for the heads-up about my pleco! I treated the same tank with Quick Cure 3 months ago (with tropicals and the pleco) and the pleco did not take it very well! (Neither did the tetras or the danios or the tiger barbs!) I changed the water and replaced the carbon in time to save them all then treated with heat and salt.

About the big tank, I think I will wait because of the pleco. This tank has many plants and hiding places so catching the critter would be too stressful for the fish and me. I will just wait to see what happens.

I didn't know I needed to change the water daily when medicating! It makes sense though, no filter and all! I did make a "sorta" filter using the tube part of an UGF and an AquaClear sponge. I put the end of the tube into a hole I cut into the sponge in hopes the bubbles of the air stone inside the tube would draw into the sponge any "floaties" in the water. (Make shift of something I read on this site. They said to use a Power "something" but I don't have one.) I'll see how it's working in the morning.

Thanks again!

Anita

Goldie is beautiful again!!

He is swimming and the swollen red spot on him has gone down and almost all the red is gone! The spot was about the size of a loonie, and he is only a little fish! Now it is almost gone! I think the fuzz I saw on him was only his slime coat regrowing over the wound.

I just did a 75% water change and gave him his second dose of meds. He is doing great!

What a relief!! Thank-you everyone! Now I only have a sick betta to worry about! (Darn Ich!)

Anita

Up-date!

All the red is gone from Goldie!

The only sign that he was sick is a few missing scales!

Thanks again everyone!

Anita

That's great, Anita! Thanks for the update.