I currently have an empty twenty gallon tank. I am wondering what would be a good community of tropical fish.

I have kept tropicals in the past, but haven't had any for several years. I am hoping for some ideas ...

Hey there Touchofsky, i keep guppies, and a kribensis in my tropical tank.
Dwarf Gouramis are good aswell, ummm i use to have a pair of Black tetras,You could also keep a Betta in your Tropical Comunity tank if you would like, oh neons are good aswell.

Anything that is not going to explode in size or too aggressive will be nice. A school of neons are a good standby. Guppies (especially the males) are good community fish and beautiful. Barbs are nice too. A couple of small cats like cory's would round it up nicely.

If you want something different, you can try cichlids. They are aggressive but full of personality. I should know. I have 5 tanks of them.

The first fish I ever kept were guppies. That was many years ago, when I got my first apartment. I had three tanks of guppies on my kitchen counter. I started with one tank and ended up with three to accomodate all of the babies

I have kept most of the small tetras, rasboras, danios and gouramis over the years, but I have never kept cichlids, since I was always scared off by their pugnacious reputation.

Barbs are another fish that I have never kept, not for any particular reason, though.

I currently have two peppered corys living with my female bettas. They are my geriatric fish, at 13 years old (at least that is as long as I have had them).

I was reading about keyhole cichlids, and was intrigued because they are not supposed to be aggressive. One of the local stores had a tank of them and they looked healthy.

Which cichlids do you keep, captk?

Hi, Black Oranda. I have never kept kribensis, although I have seen them in stores and been tempted to buy them on occasion

Sheesh, it is always hard to make a decision ...

Hi Touchofsky,

I keep African cichlids from the Lake Malawi region. I have Auratus, Electric Blue, Electric Yellow, Marble Peacock and a few other species with names that don't roll off the tongue unless you are good with Latin.

Auratus is the most aggressive. The only way I can stock them with even other species of cichlids is to over stock the tank. In one tank I have 4 generations of Auratus and that works out fine.

Most male (and some female) cichlids are agressive and they will take on fish twice or three times their size and win. You don't mix cichlids with any other breed. Some cichlids do mix well though. I should know, I have a tank of frys that have dubious origin (if you know what I mean ).

I'm not familiar with the type of cichlid you mentioned. Is it an American species? I wanted to get some American ones but they like acidic water while the African Lake ones need hard, alkaline water so they can't mix. After mushrooming to 5 tanks, I can't really justify having another tank just for our American cousins. (I'm an Aussie, BTW)

Im tempted to get another one but don't want them to fight or breed

Yes, they are South American. The Latin name is Cleithracara maronii. I have been doing some reading, and I am wondering if they are appropriate for my water. I have read differing requirements.

The water I have is fairly hard, GH 13, KH 11, ph around 7.8.

I think the African cichlids are gorgeous, with such bright colours, they easily rival salt water fish. However, I have been scared off by their reputations.

If you were to set up a tank, and taking into account I am an amateur when it comes to cichlids, what would you recommend.

It is actually quite easy to set up a cichlid tank. Selecting the combo of cichlids is harder.

I'm assuming that you are setting up an African cichlid tank. The easiest way is to use crushed shell as the base, nice and thick. A couple of inches would be nice but less is okay. This means you have KH buffer build in and you don't have to worry about any pH crash. Your pH will be stable around 8-8.5 which the cichlids like. Do not use an under gravel filter. Beside the point that they seldom work correctly, cichlids are real diggers and UGF is no go. It is actually fun to watch a male dig his love nest. He will shift huge amount of crushed shells until he get to the bare bottom.

If you want them to breed then you need the temp a little higher, around 30*C but otherwise 26-27* is comfy. Standard filter, overhead light, aeration and you are just about set. They will nibble on live plants if you let them but it is not as bad as silver dollars which will strip a plant!

Feed them specialist cichlid food if you want but any mixed tropical fish style diet will do. Bit of flakes, pellets, bits of green, some frozen worms, etc. Quite easy to look after and eats like pigs.

I would stay away from Auratus for now. They are aggressive. Electric yellow is okay if you have a few in the tank. The male can get aggressive if there are no female to chase. Ditto Electric Blue. Actually think of overstocking the tank if the aggression gets out of hand. It does work. You just need to keep an eye on the water quality. The cichlids don't mind.

If I left anything out, just ask.

In a small tank, such as the 20 gallon that is free at the moment, how many fish would I put in it?

Personally I wouldn't try any of the larger cichlids in a 20 gallon tank (maybe if it was a 20 long), only things like rams, apistos, kribs. Anything else will fight and get pretty large. For example I had a pair of Firemouths in a 29 gallon tank. They fought constantly, eventually mated, then tore the tank apart and practically killed each other... Not my idea of a relaxing fish tank. My friends have a 90 gallon with a few Yellow Labs and they killed each other off. BUT my friends had no territory-defining rockwork or anything.

That is key with cichlids, you need lots and lots of rockwork/decorations to let them get away from each other. Which of course takes away from your water volume, which makes it tough to keep water quality up. Which is another reason I don't like doing cichlids in a tank that small.

I'd agree with Myai that cichlid needs a lot of rocks and hidding places (that's their natural environment around lake Malawi. They live right near the shore and amongst the rocks. However, I don't agree that they always fight to the death. In fact, after keeping cichlids for several years and having over a dozen fish above 3 inches and scores of frys and juvenile, I firmly believe that the key to control aggression is overstocking. If you visit specialist cichlid sites, that is what they recommend as well.

A male cichlid likes and wants a hareem. You need a ratio of 1:5. BTW, this is only a guideline. But you get the picture. The male just sort of gives up if there are lots of target in the tank and it just can't chase everything that moves. If you have 2 or 3 fish in one tank then one or two will be victimised and that's when you get into troubles. For example, in one ~20gal tank, I have mama and papa Auratus and 4 generations of baby Auratus down to juveniles just over half a inch long plus 3 breeding females of other species (birth control ). I've lost count but it would be around 20+ fish. I can tell you now, they are happy, healthy and dynamic. Sure, there are some minor show of aggressive behaviour but there are no physical damage or deaths (other than the frys which got eaten, natural selection I'm afraid). The papa auratus is the king of the tank and everyone just live with that and he is happy. OBTW, I might have to sell a couple of young males which are just starting to develop their maleness (if you know what I mean ), no big deal. I saw that coming from a mile away.

I would suggest you start with one species and buy around 5 or 6 juveniles. Let that settle before adding other fish. You will soon find out who is the dominant male. If there are more than 1 male in that batch, you may see some nake aggression but it also depends on how dominating the other male is. If it gets out of hand, just send the other male back and the social order will be restored. At least with the cichlids, you can actually read their behaviour and understand in the context of their social structure. What you don't want is the classic new tank shopping trip with a wish list and come home with a mix bag of several pairs of different species of cichlids. THAT would be asking for troubles.

I'm not saying that cichlids are easy to keep but they are very rewarding if you succeed as they are more interesting, beautiful and challenging. It is not for the newbies but for an experienced keeper, it should be fine. BTW, you do know that they are mouth brooder, don't you? When you see the first brood growing in the mouth of their mom, now that is a magical moment.

hello, i have all the fish that are in my sig. togeter, they all get along fine (the loach is getting a bit big for her boots - but the other fish ignore her )

good luck

Thank you every one for all of your input and suggestions. I really appreciate the time and expertise that you have shared with me.

I now have the 20 gallon tank all cleaned up. It is amazing how good it looks with a few years of crude removed from around the rim and the hood totally cleaned and a new glass put in the hood. Sheesh, I always kept the actual water in good condition, but, well, enough said

I hope that I can get a day soon to go into the city and look at fish and see what is available to me at this time. I will also look at the breeder list at our local aquarium society and see what is available there.

Knowing me, I will end up with another goldfish

Lol, No problem , I think i would have ended up with another goldfish aswell not that i don't have enough haha..

Black Oranda,
I bought a great piece of driftwood for the tank, picked some nice granite rocks from around our house and added a few of the many silk and plastic plants.

Right now there are 6 white clouds and 6 zebras living in the tank. They are keeping it cycled. They are having a great time zooming around

That sounds great you should get pictures oh and when your done with everthing let me know what happens and what you decide on getting.
Keep us updated!