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ATTENTION READERS: I am a rank amateur at goldfish keeping, this is my first post on these boards, and I am desperately in need of some decent advice and/or hand-holding. Hence, what follows is likely to be very long-winded and more than a little meandering. If you feel like bearing with me, please read on...

Let me start this post by saying that this site has been invaluable to me in my ongoing research on the subject of goldfish keeping...I only wish I'd found it about a week earlier. Articles such as Emma's have proven much more useful to me than much of the advice I've received from the myriad of pet stores I've visited in the past month.

Around the beginning of September, I got it into my head that I wanted to raise a small number (2-4) of goldfish. The more I read about these fish, the more fascinated I became by the history and tradition (as well as the many myths and misconceptions) surrounding them. Having not maintained an aquarium since I was fifteen, I had quite a bit of catching up to do: both the technology and the practices have changed substantially since the late 1980's.

After some reading, some investigation, some more reading, and far too many conversations with staff in a variety of pet stores, I finally made a decision: I would purchase a smallish tank with an integral filtration system to start with, and upgrade in a few months/years as necessary. I found a very good price on one of these – it's twelve gallons in capacity, has an integral three-stage filtration system, lighting, etc. Everything a starter tank needed, so far as I was aware. I got the tank home, set the filtration system, introduced (fine-grade, rounded gravel) substrate, minimal decorations (an “obelisk” shaped rock for hiding behind, a single artificial plant), and water. The water was treated with the recommended quantities of Stress Coat, Cycle, and Aquarium Salt. I fired up the filter and lights, and sat back to wait out the “week” I was told it would take the tank to “mature” completely.

Then I started reading here. Apparently, the only thing I did right was not bringing any fish home with me that day.

It's been my intention to raise a couple of young Shubunkins in this tank for the next 6-12 months, transitioning to a larger tank when they outgrew this one. However, after reading through the wealth of information on this site, I now wonder if this tank is even feasible for two fish for any length of time. The following are my chief concerns, along with the “advice” I received that made them a non-issue for me at the time I purchased the tank (just to keep you amused):

• TANK SIZE:I was told everything from “Goldfish like living in close communities; you could fit at least ten in that tank!” to “One fish for every ten gallons.” to “Get a bunch to start with, because at least half of them will die anyway.” I had also read about the “one inch of fish per gallon” rule, and decided that twelve gallons would be sufficient for at least two Shubunkins (temporarily). Then I read here (over and over again) that the Shubunkins need at least 15-20 gallons per fish regardless of their age. You can see my problem.
• FILTRATION: “Goldfish don't need filtration, that's why people like them!” Alternately, “That tank has more than you'll ever need for goldfish.” Despite being a three-stage filter, I realized (again, after I bought it) that the throughput on this system is only ~106GPH. That's low (again, newfound knowledge) for a tank of this size, especially in light of how much waste these fish produce.
• AERATION: “Goldfish don't need aeration; when they need air, they just go to the surface.” It's my understanding that some filters include this functionality, but I have no idea whether mine is one of them and no reliable source from which to get this information. Additionally, the tank is in a “cube” configuration, further limiting the surface area available. The filter seems to circulate/stir the water surface sufficiently, and I would hope that the dual fans in the hood (for cooling the tank lights) might help, but it's still a major concern of mine.
• TANK CONFIGURATION: As noted above, this is a “cube” tank (“Fish don't know geometry.”)...limited swimming area. Limited surface area. The integral nature of the hood systems make everything very streamlined; they also make it impossible to add further equipment (air pump, heater, etc.) without cords/tubing becoming pinched between the hood and the lip of the tank.

So here's my question to you, the people who (at this point) I respect a great deal more than the legion of teenagers (no offense to any here) I've faced in the past few weeks: is this tank worth anything where goldfish keeping is concerned?

I'm out the money regardless (it was that “good” of a deal)...can I use this thing even on a temporary basis for Shubunkins, or is it a completely lost cause? I'd like to get two for companionship, but if one could occupy the tank more happily than two, I'd certainly consider waiting on the second fish.

If it can be used (for one or two Shubunkins) how long do you think I'll have before an upgrade is needed?

How dangerous would it be to attempt a cycle in a tank this size? My water readings (yet more new knowledge) are ideal right now, but I'm certain that's because there are no fish in the tank...would I be better off going through a fishless cycle, and is this even possible since I don't have a way to safely heat the tank?

I know it's been a long read, and half-a-rant on my part. I appreciate you taking the time if you've read this far...any advice, opinions, or suggestions would be welcome. I know that life is messy and far from perfect, and perhaps I've over-thought this whole process...but I refuse to sacrifice a creature's wellbeing (or worse, its life) to my own ignorance.

Thanks in advance...

Hi &

I totally understand where you are coming from.

I started off in fishkeeping with 2 fair fish (so I in fact did everything wrong - except in finding Koko's!! )

Anyway the lps told me - sure 2 gf can fit into a 2 gal tank - no prob (& like a trusting soul - I believed them)

SO I too was stuck with a tank (which is actually a hospital tank at the moment but which has also housed bettas!)

At least you have a 12 gal tank which can house a fish fairly happily. Unless you are really into water changes & get some really small fish, I would just get one for the present . Right now I have 2 gf in a 10 gal, but they are really small (maybe 1.5in & 2in) & my friend is getting ready to give me her 55 gal so I know this is very temporary. They are also fancies ( a pearlie & a celestial) which don't require as much space for swimming as my comets do (& I would think shubunkins would need a bit more space as well as they are more closely related to the comets although they are considered fancies)

I will tell you IMHO in my experience that the larger the tank is the easier it is to maintain cyclewise. My 38 gal barely hiccups while I have to more closely watch the smaller tanks. You can cycle the 12 gal. Cycling just requires patience & water & lots of testing.

I haven't yet done a fishless cycle - but now that I have a seeded tank - I have something to jump start my cycle in other tanks. (I didn't have that luxury in my first tank as the fish were thrust upon me last minute-like!) Many members here swear by doing it this way - but you still have to "feed" the cycle. But in the end you don't risk as much harm to the fishies.

Unless it gets really cold where you're putting the tank, you don't really need a heater. Is there no way to put one in there at all (BTW is this an eclipse system??)

Some heaters are submursible & you just need enough space to get the cord out of the top of the hood.

No one knows how soon you would need to upgrade, but I can tell you that my 2 comets wouldn't be happy in a 12 gal now (I've had them since May & they've grown alot!!)

Hope this helps - Good luck with your fishies/tank!!!

Jenn

You have already taken the biggest step since you are learning how too properly care for goldfish. I think we have all been there. I started out with 3, $2 wal mart fish and a 10 gallon starter set up about two and a half years ago. Now I have a 4250 gallon koi pond in my backyard.
The best way too learn is from other peoples mistakes and I have made many of them. Its also a lot cheaper that way. Trust me on that one.
So now too your questions:
I would only use a 12 gallon as a hospital or quarantine tank. It is really not big enough for even 1 goldfish in the long run.
If you like shubbies go with at least a 55 and get no more than 4 of them.
If you like the fancy varieties a 30 gallon would be a nice home for 2 of them.
I would never suggest anything less than 30 gallons if you want too keep goldfish. They just get too big and produce lots of waste.

I had my 3inch oranda (not including tail) and my Telescope 1.5-2 inches (not including tail) in a 10gal until I could Afford a larger tank...I now have them in a 30gal and they are happy. Just as happy if not more as when they were in the 10gal. The fish I had when I had started the cycle with my 10 gal both passed... my black moor died from Stress and Ick and my oranda died from getting and internal infaction I believe and then getting stuck to the filter intake.... You could if you wanted to get 2 Shubunkins if you wanted and do water changes a couple of times a week until you got a bigger tank. I believe they'd do just fine...mine did anyways.

Hi Priest, and welcome to the board!

It is so good that you're doing your research BEFORE buying the fish... so many people do it the other way around (including me when I first started).

A 12-gallon tank would be OK for one fancy goldfish, but not for any shubunkins I'm afraid. Those feisty beggars grow a foot long and are incredibly speedy fish which need a lot of swimming space; they're really more suited to ponds than tanks. You probably could raise one shubunkin in there for about 6 months or so, but then you'd have to upgrade to a larger tank, which is an expensive and laborious way of going about things. I wouldn't recommend this route.

If you're really keen on having shubunkins (and I sympathise with your desire - they are incredibly beautiful goldfish), then I'd suggest getting a larger tank now. If you want two shubunkins, you'll need a 35-40-gallon tank.

If you're happy to keep just one fancy GF instead (the main fancy breeds commonly available are orandas, pearlscales, fantails, veiltails, bubble-eyes, celestials, ranchus, lionheads, moors and ryukins), then a 12-gallon should be fine.

However, the set-up you've described - cube shape, integral hood which doesn't allow extra equipment, limited filter power - would make me hesitate to recommend your tank as ideal for goldfish. If there's one thing I've discovered as a goldie-keeper, it's that tons of space, excellent filtration and bucket-loads of aeration, with the ability to move things around at short notice, is pretty much essential. For example, I currently have 5 goldfish in a 90 gallon tank, which I set up 5 days ago. Since I set it up, I have had to add an extra filter, remove one of the hood lights (the temp was pushing 80F by the evening), put in two 12" bubble wands, add a 0.3% salt solution (to deal with a sudden outbreak of ich) and adjust the filter output tubes to create a 'quiet' area where the fish could eat and rest peacefully.

Having said all that, your tank is certainly not useless for goldfish; you could get away with it for one fancy fish, especially if you are vigilant about water-changes and general maintenance. Nevertheless, I suspect you will get irritated and frustrated with it before very long because of its limitations. I have an all-in-one job too which I keep 6 neons in, and frankly it's been a pain in the butt from the word go. I would always recommend new goldfish keepers buy the biggest tank they can possibly afford to start with, as it works out so much easier to manage in the long run. It doesn't have to be smart; just a plain glass rectangle with a hood is fine.

As for cycling, you will probably have to do larger water changes than normal during this time (because obvously the wastes build up more quickly in a small water volume), and the cycle may take longer than usual, but there is no reason why you could not safely cycle it with one goldfish. t won't be as easy as doing it with a larger tank though - be warned!

Would the pet store accept the 12-gallon back, do you think, if you emptied, dried and polished it thoroughly? If not, what about using that tank to keep some small tropicals in, and buying a larger tank for the goldies?

Hope this helps.

Thanks all, for both the advice and the welcome. Let me take each reply in turn...

fisharenewtome:

The tank I have is very similar to the Eclipse models; a link to its description is included in my initial post. The hood (with filtration, lighting, fans for cooling the lighting, et al.) is entirely integral: when closed, there is no room between the hood and the tank for anything that would not be pinched by the (considerable) weight of the hood. The heater isn't a major concern of mine: I have the tank in a basement room, and its temperature has remained a constant 70-72 since installation. Aeration, however, is another matter entirely. I may be able to get around this by actually boring channels through the hood itself for hoses and cords (after unplugging the unit and checking my marks, of course).

jetman73:

Duly noted, and consider me jealous: I hope to one day replace my front lawn with a koi pond (and not simply because I hate mowing).

Fishbuddy2:

I'm glad to hear your Oranda and Telescope are doing well in their new home, and it's encouraging to hear that they both started out in a ten-gallon tank...

emmahj:

Both your reply and jetman73's confirm what I was afraid of (though I certainly appreciate the honesty). To answer your question, the sale of this tank was final...I'm afraid I'm stuck with it for good or ill.

From what I've read, I would draw the following conclusion: given the tank's dimensions, configuration, and inability to accommodate further equipment without some questionable tinkering on my part...well, I'd say that even on a temporary basis it's not suitable for a Shubunkin.

The investment I've already made in this tank precludes me from obtaining anything larger or more elaborate for the time being, which rule the Shubunkins out completely (but only for the time being).

I'll have to consider my options further: keeping one of the fancy breeds (Moor and Ryukin were my next choices) in this tank appears to be an option until I can afford a larger rig. I feel confident (armed with the knowledge I've gained from these boards) that I can maintain a proper environment for one fish for the few months it will take me to save for a new tank. I already have the gravel vacuum, test kits, buckets and so forth...and I certainly wouldn't be starting with any more than 2” of fish regardless. Again, it's something I'll need to think about.

Thanks again for all your advice and encouragement. I'll post here with any new developments.

I don't think I can add much to what has already been said other than I have shubbies in my pond and I would have to say they are not tank fish - unless it's a really big tank. They rate right up their with koi in my opinion. Sounds like you have researched it and are in the right place. I would keep that tank for a hospital tank. For now if you can't afford a bigger tank I would buy one fancy goldfish - I am sure you will keep him company and he won't get lonely.

Another fish you might consider is a betta - I have two bettas in a DIVIDED 10 gallon tank - don't put them together. They are very personable fish and very pretty.

Good luck, hope to see you around and welcome to Koko's!

Nothing to add... but welcome to Koko's!!

I've heard somewhere that black moors can get depressed if they're left in a tank without any tankmates, I'm not sure if its true, maybe someone else can knock it down or confirm it.

The ideal is 10-20 gallons per goldie, but until I can get my fish a pond in the spring, it's the one inch one gallon rule.

A fancy would do quite well in that tank. But I would probably put guppies in there or start a little fish tropical tank. If worse comes to worse, I'd get some rubbermaid storage boxes and keep them in there.

I bought my fish with no experience what-so-ever. I now know a little too much lol.

You could use the tank for goldfish as fry, and then when they are older, you could switch them into a pond or a bigger tank. Then you could use it as a tropic tank

I hope this helps. GOOD LUCK!

Chelsea brings up a good point about the fish not doing so well on its own. I hate too suggest this but since you plan on upgrading in the future two small fancies will be Ok for now.

I am wondering what you decided to do. Myself started with a 3 gallon for 2 fancy goldfish, well that lasted for 2 months with water changes every day. Now I have 3 fancy goldfish in a 30 gallon and planning on a 55 gallon as soon as I get my cichlid tank setup. Hope everything worked out. I love fancy goldfish, My son wanted a shubunkin and I did the research, so I said no, pick a fancy one and he picked the pom pom oranda instead.

Again, thanks to all for the advice and support. I apologize if I've been incommunicado on this, but things have been fairly hectic for the past twenty-four hours.

After some careful thought on the matter, I finally decided that setting up a proper tank in a few months is preferable to subjecting any new goldfish to compromises and half-measures. I don't intend to offend anyone who started keeping fish in a tank this size (or smaller)...in every instance I've read, the owner simply didn't know any better. I do not have that excuse, nor can I attempt to “make this tank work” in good conscience. With little possibility for aeration and poor dimensions/configuration, I simply do not feel confident that this tank would be suitable for my future charges.

With that said, I've been doing some additional reading and research on fish which might be better suited to the tank I currently have available to me ( and which might make for an easier reintroduction into the world of fish keeping). Ultimately, I decided to take Lachfa's suggestion and brought my first Betta home earlier this evening. He's a male crown-tail of a deep scarlet (almost black) hue. I've just completed his sixty-minute transition from Betta-cup to my tank, where he seems to be exploring calmly in the dark. Initial water tests are all good; feeding and lights will wait until tomorrow, if I understand the process correctly. Ah...and before I forget, his name is Hiro.

Once more, thanks for the valuable advice. I look forward to spending more time on these boards as I save for something suitable to the Shubunkins I'd eventually like to raise...

So here endeth the saga of my first tank in fifteen years. Thankfully, it's a happy ending: after basically bringing home the wrong tank for goldfish, then having problems with the filtration system tormenting the Betta I placed in it, I'd finally had enough of this thing. “All sales final” or not, I called the LPS from which I'd obtained this thing and patiently explained my situation to a manager who agreed to take the thing back and refund my money.

To be fair, both parties in this transaction can take the blame for why it didn't work out. The LPS was ignorant both of what they were selling and what I intended to use it for; my own ignorance also played a key role, as will become apparent shortly.

After I had transitioned my Betta to his new tank, I spent some time trying to figure out what I might do with the old tank. Since it was advertised as a marine/freshwater tank I searched around here for the marine possibilities, and much to my surprise, found that Koko was using my tank for exactly this purpose! It didn't take me long to compare the photos from her tank to my own and realize (now that my tank was empty) the hood did contain a small rubber channel for either an air tube or a submersible heater cord. So much for my powers of observation...but honestly, the “manual” (one photocopied sheet) that came with the tank didn't mention anything about this.

This still didn't solve the issues with the filter intake my Betta had run into, and I didn't see the point in starting a marine tank simply because I had a tank that was suited to this purpose (throwing good money after bad, and all that). This was the point at which I lost my patience and contacted the LPS about returning the tank.

After the LPS agreed to accept the tank back, I set about the process of cleaning it. I found (again, to my surprise) that when I removed the pump from its chamber in the rear of the tank, it did have a flow-control slider on it! No mention of this in the “manual” either. When I had contacted the LPS earlier to ask about this, I had been told that there was “no way to adjust the filter suction” on this unit. Incidentally, I had also asked about the proper setup for the filtration system (i.e. which chamber for which media, photocopied sheet wasn't explicit) and was told by the LPS that “they probably hadn't even read the directions” when they set their display tank up. Still, my fault for not checking thoroughly before I set my tank up...well, not that it was an issue then or that I would've known what to look for.

At this point, I could have salvaged the tank...but to what end? Twelve gallons was too much for my Betta, too little for the Shubunkins I wanted, and I wasn't going to start a marine tank. I'd already spent a few days cleaning the thing up and drying it out, and was quite simply sick of looking at it. It's now back in the LPS' possession.

While the LPS ultimately did right by me, I won't be returning to them for any more of my aquatic needs. I'm simply writing this for posterity's sake, as the Nano Cube tank might be useful to someone else. The tank itself certainly doesn't deserve the treatment I've given it on these forums, though for a new hobbyist its instructions and feature-list could have been much more detailed. The problems I had with it stemmed from my own ignorance, the LPS' ignorance, an unclear manual and the lure of an “all-in-one” system. From now on, I'll be putting my tanks together piece-by-piece so I completely understand the features of each component.

Thanks again for everyone's advice and patience.