OK - so most of you know about my struggle with Bubba. Sigh.

Yesterday I did the usual water change in the afternoon. Fins looked awesome. Lots of new growth. Nice & white/clear not red. I was so happy. Still that niggling bit of rot on the top fin but I thought maybe it just takes longer...

THen when I put Nat to bed I just peeked in the tank - not expecting much new, gues what

I WAS WRONG!

#### fin totally shredded again. Red angry looking. Still with rot on top rin as well. A portion of the back fin is still healing (?????)

OK no prob I think it's the ammonia level. SO I tested it. 0. Same with Nitrites. Nitrates are at 20.

What the #####.

So since water is perfect I threw the maracyn's in there. (Since I already know that that fin goes quickly)

Does anyone have any ideas at all (I feel like that stupid song about 1 step forward & 2 steps back)???????????

Aack!!!! Any ideas welcome. I'm at my wit's end!!

Jenn

PS - I did a stupid thing & contanimated another tank. Now poor Pat also has rot. His is healing but not as nicely as Bubba's was. (Although as long as it doesn't re-shred who am I do complain?) He has one little bit of green ? in a v shaped notch on his fin - does anyone have any ideas about that??)

On the brighter side - I have bought almost all of the turkey basters from the local acme so each tank has its own!

I know, frustrating! My Bruisers fins do this all the time! His water is always clean, and still I can't keep his fins! And I did the same thing too, I infected another tank with the turkey baster <_< !
The only thing I've seen results with is the maracyn2. But that was only during the treatment, right after it was back to the rot. So I changed a big part of the water, let him be for a week and did a normal water change and now I'm using the maracyn2 again.
Other than this, I don't know. My tanks aren't heated so I don't know if maybe that would help. Temps fluctuate in my house from day to night with the cold nights lately. So maybe a constant steady temp would be help? Do you have heaters?
Sorry I'm not more help, I'm stumbling through it the same as you! Good luck to you, hun. Erin

Jenn, what is in his tank? That sounds to me like he is catching it on something. How can it go from perfect to horrible in a few hours other than tearing it?

Do you see it healing and then after a water change it goes back to being bad?
Could there possibly be something in the water that you don't test for? Some chemical that he is sensitive and when it is freshly added it does this and then it disapates and he starts healing and then wham you do a water change???????

Laurie - He was doing great (I've actually been changing his water daily for a while now - I never thought I'd keep 3 gal jugs in my tiny bathroom but hey - for now it works)

I've been using Prime & aged water for his changes & he was doing so well.

It totally does not look like a tear at all. It looks like something ate his fin. It's shredding & red/angry looking again so I'm pretty sure it's the rot (the part that is freshly rotting looks nothing like the part that is still healing - what is with this? Why is it rotting & healing at the same time???) I'll try to post pics.

He did have that little bit of rot on his top fin though - since everything was doing so well I figuered that it was just slow to heal - now I think it spread & since water was perfect - bacterial in nature???

Oy! THis is really getting me down! Pancake better not get it as he's the only one with "normal" fins right now! (Or else I'd forget what normal looked like!)

I even changed the tank on the theory that the ugf was bothering him. Now that this new one has cycled (or did as I've got the antibiotics in there now... another worry sigh) I figuered I was home free - rot healing/ params perfect

There's my Karma biting me in the butt again!!!

I have no idea how to stop this - it's really getting me frustrated.

I'm going to get a heater tomorrow & see if constant temp will help the situation.

Any other ideas???

Any thoughts on the green bit on Pat's fin???

Aack!!!!! Jenn

What do you guys think about this theory - maybe external some somethings??? If I don't see any improvement with the Maracyns should I go the Quick Cure route???

(I was just googling & checking out some other links & thought - hey that's the one thing I've NEVER tried - maybe I am knocking some off & then they regain their status & whammo - more rot. He does get crazy when I first approach the tank - but after that he usually calms down but since everything else is coming up goose eggs...)

I dunno - what do you think??

<_< Jenn

Jenn, I think we have an epidemic going on with this fin rot! I did complete water changes a little while ago and started the Maracyn 2. I, like you, think I contaminated 2 of my tanks, myself. I thought that since Geronimo was well that stuff wouldn't cross-contaminate. But now as I look at him closely, his tail looks like the end of it has been burned. So tomorrow I will change his water and start the Maracyn 2 with him. So now I have it in three tanks and I'm praying over the other two. Horatio's taill is shredded badly. I "play" with each fish through the glass everyday and watch them closely. I don't know how this rot can do so much damage so quickly.

Sorry I'm not much help. I think Toothless told me to use Maracyn 2. That was months ago when I first got Geronimo and he had tail rot when I got him. It worked then, so that's all I know to do. Hopefully between all of us we can figure this one out and soon!

I hope so - this is one nasty rot!

I'm with you on the speed - Bubba's fin shredded in literally hours. I changed water at like 2pm & by 8pm half of the new growth was gone!!!! Incredible.

I've got both maracyns in there right now as this is pretty agressive at the moment for him. I'll keep you posted. So far today it only seems a bit better but we'll see after tomorrow.

I'm praying over my 3rd tank as well!!! I did the exact same thing & contaminated the other tank. I thought he was on the mend so...

Keep me posted too will you?? Hopefully we can find an answer between the 2 of us!

Jenn

Oh, I just thought of this! Could he be biting his tail? Sounds crazy, but some do do it. Anyway, just wondering if you had thought of that.
Erin

I really doesn't look likt that at all - I'm going to have to try to post pics this afternoon/eve so you can see what I mean.

Maybe the threat of pics will cause it to heal while I'm gone?? (As opposed to just rotting away?? - You know like when you go to the docs & suddenly feel better??)

Jenn

Geez Jenn!!!!! Enough allready!!!!! Did you tell Bubba that there's other ways to stay in the "Limelight"? Tell him Betta of the month!!! I don't even know what to tell you anymore. I think i'll go look later for some new ideas on it,but the little I know you,I know you've spent a HUGE amt of time researching this. Continuous meds can't be good,ya know? The Maracyns seem to start the healing,but just can't seem to get it all the way there....I will dig some more....... In the meantime,hang in there,and tell Bubba to Cut it out!!!

Sharon -

I was able to get him off meds for the longest time - he hasn't been on any at all - just good clean water (25% change daily - whether I want to or not!!! ) I guess it has been close to a month now. Maybe a bit longer.

I'd see a bit of rot - but then it was always the ammonia level (anything above .5 causes his fins to rot) so I'd do a water change, test again, change again... you know...

Fins were looking so great! I was so excited - I thought- well now this is more like it! I've finally got it under control...

but there was always this little bit of rot ... didn't think much of it as it wasn't progressing..... until this Wed when BAM out of nowhere! I've lost so much ground in the last 2 days...

When I checked the params & they were still perfect I knew it wasn't that ammonia rot so I thought before I get back to that no fin stage.....

Sigh...

What do you think of trying the Quick Cure if the MAracyns don't work... I know it's a long shot but honestly I'm running out of ideas at this point & I'm not quite ready to try salt... (He acts so normal!!! It's frustrating because if he's not acting sick I don't want to try anything that might make him feel horrible - 'cause it looks painful again...sigh...)


Heeeelp!

Jenn

My goodness my brain out of suggestions. Of course I am here for you and Bubba, hopefully you can get it figured out.

What is the Quick Cure?

Malachite Green & formalin - used for parasite type stuff (like ich velvet) & also for true fungal infections)

It's a shot in the dark - but I can't figure this one out!


Jenn

Are you going to try that? I plan to run the course with the Maracyn2 and then see what else, if anything, I have to do. I know you must be getting pretty desparate over Bubba by now. I wish I could help - I feel pretty helpless myself. I have taken inventory of my situation and it looks like all 5 of my guys have that #### to one degree or another. I know this spread is my fault, cause I failed to use necessary precautions
Keep me posted on what you decide to do, Jenn, okay?

OK - I appear to have 2 different strains going on! I looked in on the guys tonite & I can tell you I'm feeling really frustrated. Bubba is looking terrible _ I'm running the course with the MAracyns but I had to do a water change 'cause he's lost so much. I'm starting to think there are 2 kinds of rot in his tank - some kind of bacterial (cause now that's looking better) & some kind of ammonia (even though it was only 0.5 tonite it looks so much worse!)

On the other hand in Pat's tank - his eyes have a greenish ?? beginning to surround them along with that bit on his fins & his fins shredded during the day today. He already had a course of the Maracyns so I thought - maybe this is fungus (cause of the green stuff) so he's got fungus clear in there. I hope that helps. If not I'm going to pull out my hair!

So far (hear me knocking on wood???) Pancake hasn't gotten this at all - but he has 4 red dots on the bottome edge of his fin & 1 on the back fin. Now this could be pigment as he is a red yellow/white & blue fish& I know I'm paranoid!!! (They are really small & his fins aren't shredding at all)

I hope your babies are getting better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*fingers & toes crossed* Jenn

Poor Bubba baby! He's been though so much and yet he keeps on going. Horatio's tail is shredded almost up to his body. Jazz has chunks gone out of his tail - looks like something bit him. (he has a comb tail to begin with,so I didn't notice it right away. But, like you, I'm really getting paranoid. So much damage so fast. Whew! I'm about blown away seeing this stuff eating up my babies.

Isn't it horrible? - I brought Bubba back from the brink but this new episode is taking me right back to where you are now. (In August my hubby & I were talking about how we were going to deal with the rot if it reached his body. HIs tank is in my daughter's room & at that point I was sure he'd be in pain ... It never came to that though - I finally got it stopped just before it reached his body.)

I can't believe how fast this rot is proceeding again though! It's scary! & I'm worried that the new fin won't be as resilient as the old so it will go faster (I have no idea if this is actually the case - I'm just scared about the whole thing)

What is up with all of the fin rot lately????

Keep me posted about your babies!!

*fingers crossed* Jenn

I can't believe it, but the way things are going that dumb guppy is going to outlast my bettas! Just my luck About all I do is feed and ignore him.

Hmmm - maybe that's what we need to do with our bettas?? (Just kidding)

That's funny in a twisted kind of way that that guppy is doing so well!

I'm going to think positively & pray our babies all get well soonest!!!

Jenn

Jesus, Jen. I guess I didn't realize just how bad Bubba was. And I'm whining about some chunks missing! I'm so sorry. And with fungus looming in Pat's tank! You must be ready to pull your hair out!
I hardly know anything about anything. But if the Maracyns don't work, maybe a mild salt bath? I say mild cause I know salt is risky with battas. I started a second round of Maracyn2 with 2 of my boys ( after a week's rest ). And I'm considering doing a salt bath if this doesn't work. I don't know what else to try or suggest that you try.
Good luck hun, keep us posted
Erin

Me, too! Praying alot.

Help Help Help Help!

Bubba now has ich! (Or at least something like it - white bumps on his head!!!!)

OK so now what - keep with the MAracyns?? Switch to Quick Cure?? Use both (I have absolutely no idea at all if this is safe or not!)

I'm posting pics shortly!

Thanks in advance!!!!!

Aack!! Jenn

ive read through your thread here and i think you may have been on to something when you mentioned some kind of parasite. velvet, although somewhat rare, has the capability to manifest symptoms in the form of a persistant tail-rot. and moreso with flukes. have you noticed his beard shrinking back along with the tail-rot? thats a sure sign of flukes and/or other nasties. however, you cannot know for sure unless a scrape is performed for examination under a microscope. being that you have as many fish as you do, it might not be a bad idea to invest in one.

along these same lines, many people (so ive read) have found that keeping a betta in an environment with too much surface agitation dont do very well. cutting down on surface agitation can be achieved by keeping floating plants (real or plastic) at the surface. of course, keeping pockets of expose water surface for thier regular gulps of air. this suggestion hinges mainly on the stress factor in their immune systems. just a thought.

have you thought about a mini-version of the bucket to bucket treatment? sometimes the best way to treat is by removing the sick fish from the infected environment on a daily basis during medication or treatment. for this 100% waterchanges are needed with container sterilization in between. sometimes just salting the water is good enough to knock down quite a few different microscopic parasites.

should you decide to medicate with the mg/f combo, be careful. start out with quarter or half doses and watch closely for a few hours after each dosing. you dont need to necessarily keep the tank 100% dark either, just leave a little exposed to let him see just a bit. because youll be dosing such a small environment pay extra careful attention to the number of drops you use. i like to use a needleless 1/2 cc syringe for all my concentrated dosages. a plus with the mg/f is that it is also effective against a lot of bacteria and fungi.

what do think about trying some medigold or metromed out on him? it probably wouldnt hurt, would it? ive never heard of it but have often thought about it.

most of my suggestions here are for different scenarios, another would be that its just a nasty strain of bacteria (accompanied by fungi?) and the maracyns just arent the right antibiotic/s to use. maybe furan based meds are in order. but thats impossible to know unless you try.

hopefully something will give for you and your sick ones soon.

Hmmmm -

Thanks Paul - this at least gives me something more to work with-I've been really out of my mind with this one.

I've got both of the maracyn's in there & am using a tetra medicated flake (which he loves thank God) It's a tetracycline so it should be OK with the maracyns (as I believe they are in the same family - or at least one of them is & so...) It's day 4 for both of them.

I've tried the trisulfa in the past as well as the melafix (which I now believe burned his fins rather than healed them).

I did switch from an ugf to the whisper (turned down to its lowest setting) I'll try the floating plants as well.

I'll also look into the furans.

I'm trying to stay positive about all of this but man...

I think I'll try the mg/f before I try the salt as I'd rather not have both in the tank at the same time.

If this doesn't work then I guess I'm doing the bucket to bucket.

Thanks Paul - I really appreciate your advice & opinions!!!

Jenn

PS - I have a scope - it was my dads but the lenses are too dirty for me to see anything out of them & I have no idea how to clean them (& my dad has passed so I can't ask him) DO you know of any sites that might help me figure this out???

Thanks!!

sure. it should be rather easy to clean the lenses off.

assuming the lenses are dirty or cloudy inside and out, heres what you do:

first, youll need some xylene (sp?) or rubbing alcohol (if its glass lenses, good ones are) and some q-tips.

youll also need a small set of screwdrivers (phillips or flathead, depending)

just disassemble the scope while keeping track of where everything goes. it helps to draw a little diagram of the scope and where each piece goes as you take it apart. remember, your only trying to get the lenses out for cleaning. try not to take apart the fucusing gears or anything like that.

once you got the lenses out, clean them with the alcohol (or xylene) and the q-tips. once youve cleaned them, just put them back into the scope and re-assemble as per your diagram. be careful not to get any fingerprints on the lenses when your re-assembling it, though.

once you get the scope back together and operable, heres a couple of links to help you through your scrape and identification:

parasite videos for identification

slime scrape technique

once you get the scope operable again, youll have the perfect tool for ruling out parasites, or identifying them. wichever.

good luck!

Thanks!!

I'll try it & let you know how it goes!!!

Jenn

Paul, that was very informative. I am assuming these parasites are for gf too???

Jenn, hopefullly you will find out what is going on with Bubba.

Hey Jen, how's Bubba doing? Did you find anything with the microscope?
Erin

I'm with Erin Jenn-how is Bubba?

Microscope fixing is hopefully on the schedule for tomorrow!

Currently the rot sucks! I really do think that there are 2 different kinds of rot in these tanks.

Now - Bubba is done with the antibiotics. THese have (of course) played havoc with the bio bugs so...

The part that was rotting is now healing and...

you guessed it - the part that was healing has rotted to bits!!!

My only hope is that perhaps I killed all the bad bugs & now with pristine water the other rot will heal on its own.

In the meantime I'm not holding my breath. I have had too much to do (unfortunately) to try to fix the 'scope. (All those water changes plus re-doing our office plus work & school & sick kids=no time for any extras at all!)

I'm so sick of this!!! (But I my babies!)

I'm also paranoid about poor pancake - he prob thinks I'm nuts peering in there every chance I get.

Pat also isn't doing well from the rot standpoint. I tried fungus cure in there & am experiencing the same thing as Bubba's tank.

Sigh....


Jenn

D**n, Jen. Well good luck with the scope, I hope you figure something out soon.
You know what, I think all these bettas get together after we all go to bed and conspire against us! How can we make mom nuts???!!! :crp
(hey, you got to find something to laugh at to save your sanity, right)
Erin

Ah HA! I knew there was a conspiracy around here somehwere!!!!!

Both babies look a bit better today . They're currently off of all meds.

We'll see.....

*picture me with fingers & toes crossed*

Jenn

Jenn, I knew it - in the wee hours this morning I thought I some sonar type sounds emiting from the kitchen! I thought it must be a dream and went
back to sleep. Now I know! Erin is right about a conspiracy among the bettas!
I those boys, but this finrot thing is driving me nuts.

See I told you! Is mom asleep yet? Cool, let's go
Glad they're looking better so far.
* fingers crossed for you*
Erin

Goodness sakes. The bettas are having a conspirancy???? I to Jenn have my fingers crossed for you. And Bubba and Pat.

Let us know what is going on. I am very interested to hear if you looked under the microscope.