Same old story new sucker, thats me! My 7mo old son won a goldfish at the county fair. Sound familier yet? I went to get the goldfish and buy whatever else was needed. The info Iwas given at the petstore was that 3 goldfish a frog and an algae eater would all live happily ever after in a 10 gal tank. Around day two or three the water was so cloudy you could barly see through it. Two of them started getting black spots on them soon after, which I have read is probably ammonia burns. My algae eater died yesterday and I fear the Grim Reaper will soon return if I don't do something now!
Per the petstore reccomendation I bought the following:
10 gal. tank
Wisper power filter 10 (Bio-Bag with charcoal inside)
Nutrafin Max medium floating pellets
3 goldfish 2 1/2 -3 in long
1 algae eater
1 frog
When I asked the petstore about the black tails and spots along their body they said it was probably fin rot and gave me some meds to use. I later found online that it was probably ammonia so I done a 40 % water change (the 1ST) on day 16 and another 40% change on day 18 (today) Where do I go now to save my little buddies!
I know the tank is too small, but the matchbox house we live in will never accomadate a 30+ gal tank even a 20 gal will be tight.
Thanks fo any and all help!!!
Full Version: Need Lots Of Help
Hi, there is 3 ways too make this work. The best would be to get ten gallons per goldie. But you dont have the room for that so you could do daily water changes at 30% each time. But lets face it no one wants to do that. You could also return them to the store they will take them for free they may not give you a return on them. your best bet would be too return all the fish but one. im not shure if you know this but goldies need a cycled tank in order too have a fully succesfule tank. i wont bore you with the details on how too do this(yet) but you will need 3 test kits. one for ammonia,nitrate,nirite,and one for ph but it isnt 100% crucial for the ph right now.(imo) so post back on what you want to do, and get thoughs test kits and we can go from there.
because your tank is over stocked and uncycled that is why ammonia is so high. the water cloudy usally happens the first few days with fish but it will usally be clear again. you need to cycle your tank and during cycling with fish you need to do daily water changes. here is a link tocycleing what kind of frog do you have african dawrf or african clawed? if african clawed then he needs to be brought back those get pretty big. is your frog albino? (then it is a ACF) if it had webbing in his front legs than it is a african dawrf frog. I would also bring the other 2 goldfish back.
post back soon!
post back soon!
I bought a test kit but it dosent have ammonia tester the results are as follows:
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 0-0.5
Ph around 8.4
Total hardness over 425 test dosent go high enough
Total alkalinity over 300 test dosen't go high enough
Also I got an air pump with sponge filter to get more oxygen in the water.
The GF seem to be more active today for whatever reason! I'm still doing 30% water changes everyday but was unsure if I should vacume the gravel everyday or not. Didn't know if this would harm the cycling or not by removing the fish waste constantly.
The frog is an African clawed he seem to be fine so far. He did get a heavy slime on him after I added the meds the store gave me for the supposed fin rot.
I'm still trying to figure out where I might put a larger tank. I doubt the pet store will take back the two that have black spots they look bad. By the way why would only two of the three GF have the ammonia burns and not all?
Thank for any additional help!!!!!
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 0-0.5
Ph around 8.4
Total hardness over 425 test dosent go high enough
Total alkalinity over 300 test dosen't go high enough
Also I got an air pump with sponge filter to get more oxygen in the water.
The GF seem to be more active today for whatever reason! I'm still doing 30% water changes everyday but was unsure if I should vacume the gravel everyday or not. Didn't know if this would harm the cycling or not by removing the fish waste constantly.
The frog is an African clawed he seem to be fine so far. He did get a heavy slime on him after I added the meds the store gave me for the supposed fin rot.
I'm still trying to figure out where I might put a larger tank. I doubt the pet store will take back the two that have black spots they look bad. By the way why would only two of the three GF have the ammonia burns and not all?
Thank for any additional help!!!!!
You seem to be doing better. Maybe the one that didn't get the burns was stonger and could stand it more than the other two - I don't know. How are your goldfish doing today?
It's a good idea to vacum the gravel every day when you are doing your water change - some uneaten food and poop will get caught in between the gravel or go underneath it, and this is what causes problems - from the poop and flakes which create the environent harder to live in by goldfish.
It's a good idea to vacum the gravel every day when you are doing your water change - some uneaten food and poop will get caught in between the gravel or go underneath it, and this is what causes problems - from the poop and flakes which create the environent harder to live in by goldfish.
sorry that your having these problems. and, why yes! your story sounds pretty textbook to me. but, do not listen to anybody from any more local shops until you know darn well and sure that they know what theyre talking about. seriously! more often than not, youll be given some very wrong and harmful information.
since you seem to have picked up on the tanks cycle, ill forgo the blah blah in that department unless youve got some more qustions about it. if so, dont hesitate to fire away!
ok, test your tapwater with all of the test kits that you have. if you get a reading of 0 for nitrates (from the tap), then im pretty positive that your tank is almost fully cycled. wich is exactly why your goldfish seem to be feeling a bit better. once the nitrItes level reaches 0, you can stop doing the daily water changes as your parameters have leveled off. your goldies should start to show some improvement now that the cycle is almost fully operational.
do not use any more medications yet. at this point, they might do more harm than good. instead, add aquarium salt to the tune of 2 3/4 level teaspoons per us gallon. but, do this slowly. say, over the course of two days. add 1/4 the prescribed amount then wait 6 hours. add another 1/4. the next day, do the same thing. once you have reached the desired level. only add salt to the water that your adding back to the tank. salt can ONLY be removed by doing water changes sans salt. so, salt can sometimes creep up to a higher level than you think it is. be careful about how much you add. keep this up for two weeks or so. after that, stop the salt treatment altogether or just cut the amount that you add to 1 teaspoon per gallon. you can keep this level that way for up to a month without any adverse reactions. the salt should help your goldies fight off any bad bacteria that is most likely present in the tank.
some goldfish are more succeptable to ammonia burns and toxicities than others. thats why not all of them have them.
one thing concerns me, well three things really. your water hardness and alkalinity being so high. the alkalinity is causing your ph to stay at such a high level. 8.5 is rather high. ammonia is much more toxic to fish at a higher ph. thats most likely why you lost the algae eater. anyway, there are some things that you can do to keep your ph lower than what it is but, we need the test results from your tapwater before we can continue.
it sounds like your troubles are coming to a close. keep a vigilant eye on the params and change water daily til the nitrItes disappear.
and get that bigger tank if you can. if the tank cant be bought just yet, do a daily 25% water change (once fully cycled) until youve got them in a better environment.
post back soon!
paul
since you seem to have picked up on the tanks cycle, ill forgo the blah blah in that department unless youve got some more qustions about it. if so, dont hesitate to fire away!
ok, test your tapwater with all of the test kits that you have. if you get a reading of 0 for nitrates (from the tap), then im pretty positive that your tank is almost fully cycled. wich is exactly why your goldfish seem to be feeling a bit better. once the nitrItes level reaches 0, you can stop doing the daily water changes as your parameters have leveled off. your goldies should start to show some improvement now that the cycle is almost fully operational.
do not use any more medications yet. at this point, they might do more harm than good. instead, add aquarium salt to the tune of 2 3/4 level teaspoons per us gallon. but, do this slowly. say, over the course of two days. add 1/4 the prescribed amount then wait 6 hours. add another 1/4. the next day, do the same thing. once you have reached the desired level. only add salt to the water that your adding back to the tank. salt can ONLY be removed by doing water changes sans salt. so, salt can sometimes creep up to a higher level than you think it is. be careful about how much you add. keep this up for two weeks or so. after that, stop the salt treatment altogether or just cut the amount that you add to 1 teaspoon per gallon. you can keep this level that way for up to a month without any adverse reactions. the salt should help your goldies fight off any bad bacteria that is most likely present in the tank.
some goldfish are more succeptable to ammonia burns and toxicities than others. thats why not all of them have them.
one thing concerns me, well three things really. your water hardness and alkalinity being so high. the alkalinity is causing your ph to stay at such a high level. 8.5 is rather high. ammonia is much more toxic to fish at a higher ph. thats most likely why you lost the algae eater. anyway, there are some things that you can do to keep your ph lower than what it is but, we need the test results from your tapwater before we can continue.
it sounds like your troubles are coming to a close. keep a vigilant eye on the params and change water daily til the nitrItes disappear.
and get that bigger tank if you can. if the tank cant be bought just yet, do a daily 25% water change (once fully cycled) until youve got them in a better environment.
post back soon!
paul
I tested my tap water (water that I draw and let set for 24 hours with water conditioner in it) and the results were very close to the tank results:
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 8-8.4 Depends how the lisht hits the test strip
Total hardness around 425
Total Alkalinity around 300
thanks
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 8-8.4 Depends how the lisht hits the test strip
Total hardness around 425
Total Alkalinity around 300
thanks
im sorry, i should have specified. test the tapwater as it comes out of the tap. water thats been sitting out for a bit can wind up with a different ph than water straight from the tap. if your ph is the same at the tap than it is in the tank, you might not have to do anything at all for it. although youve got a really high ph, as long as its stable, everything should be fine.
paul
paul
Hello again,
My tapwater tests straight from the faucet this time.
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Total Hardness 250
Total alkalinity 300
Ph 8.4
Todays tank water test are as follows:
Ammonia 2.0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Total Hardness between 120-250
Total Alkalinity 300+
Ph 8.4
Temp is 77
Per one sugestion I started adding the salt slowly to the water.I also bought a box of Ph reducing tablets to slowly lower the Ph.
The GF are active again today, They seem to be doing better every day.The water it's self is clear and has been since I started doing a 30% water change daily.
One question: How will I know when the water had cycled? The nitrite and nitrate levels are 0 but the ammonia level is at 2.0. Will the ammonia level get down to zero when the cycle is complete? Dose the daily water changes( which I know I have to do due to the overstocking) slow the cycling process down?
Thanks for all of the replys so far!!!!
My tapwater tests straight from the faucet this time.
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Total Hardness 250
Total alkalinity 300
Ph 8.4
Todays tank water test are as follows:
Ammonia 2.0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Total Hardness between 120-250
Total Alkalinity 300+
Ph 8.4
Temp is 77
Per one sugestion I started adding the salt slowly to the water.I also bought a box of Ph reducing tablets to slowly lower the Ph.
The GF are active again today, They seem to be doing better every day.The water it's self is clear and has been since I started doing a 30% water change daily.
One question: How will I know when the water had cycled? The nitrite and nitrate levels are 0 but the ammonia level is at 2.0. Will the ammonia level get down to zero when the cycle is complete? Dose the daily water changes( which I know I have to do due to the overstocking) slow the cycling process down?
Thanks for all of the replys so far!!!!
Ammonia is the first step in the cycling process. After it starts to drop, you will see the nitrites rise and fall and then the nitrates. In a cycled tank, ammonia and nitrites should be 0; nitrates are "safe" for GF up to about 40 ppm but the lower the better. The way I understand it, the good bio-bugs live mostly in the filter medium and on surfaces, not in the water, so water changes aren't going to slow the cycle down much if at all. And that high ammonia is MUCH more toxic to the fish than a longer cycle would be, anyway. So keep changing that water!
I know you've gotten off to a rocky start, but a whole lot of us started the same way--with inadequate tanks and bad advice. Good for you for doing what you need to do to keep the fish happy. (Not like my friend who, when her kid's fair GF died, bought new ones to replace in the same bowl--after I explained the basic requirements and that the new fish would die, too. I was disappointed.)
I know you've gotten off to a rocky start, but a whole lot of us started the same way--with inadequate tanks and bad advice. Good for you for doing what you need to do to keep the fish happy. (Not like my friend who, when her kid's fair GF died, bought new ones to replace in the same bowl--after I explained the basic requirements and that the new fish would die, too. I was disappointed.)
i dont understand. you posted earlier that your nitrate levels were at 20ppm. what happened? have you been doing a ton of water changes or something? the only reason why i suggested that your tanks cycle was close to being operational was because of the nitrates that i thought were in your tanks water.
are you washing/scrubbing out the tanks filter or something? if so, dont.
are you using dechlorinator for the waterchanges?
your use of the ph down tablets worries me. ph is a very complex thing to try to manipulate. unless youve got a very good understanding of what you should and shouldnt do, dont try to attempt it. you will cause more damage with a fluctuating ph than you will with a steady (but high) ph. read this about 50 times (i had to!) to get a relatively good understanding of ph and its affects on fish:
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html
i think youll find that you should discontinue the use of those ph tablets. unless of course your going to be testing every single day and doing the proper changes.
as far as your ammonia levels, do water changes to keep them at 1ppm or less. once nitrites start to appear, keep them under 2ppm. youll need to keep this up for a while. all the while adding the salt that i recommended. theres a few products available to us in the aquatic trade that detoxifies ammonia and nitrites into a form that is non-toxic to fish and yet still readily available to the bio-filter to convert into nitrates. for a couple of those products, read this:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17013
i very highly suggest that you get some as soon as you can. it will make you much more at ease knowing that the toxic ammonia and nitrite are being detoxified!
post back soon
are you washing/scrubbing out the tanks filter or something? if so, dont.
are you using dechlorinator for the waterchanges?
your use of the ph down tablets worries me. ph is a very complex thing to try to manipulate. unless youve got a very good understanding of what you should and shouldnt do, dont try to attempt it. you will cause more damage with a fluctuating ph than you will with a steady (but high) ph. read this about 50 times (i had to!) to get a relatively good understanding of ph and its affects on fish:
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html
i think youll find that you should discontinue the use of those ph tablets. unless of course your going to be testing every single day and doing the proper changes.
as far as your ammonia levels, do water changes to keep them at 1ppm or less. once nitrites start to appear, keep them under 2ppm. youll need to keep this up for a while. all the while adding the salt that i recommended. theres a few products available to us in the aquatic trade that detoxifies ammonia and nitrites into a form that is non-toxic to fish and yet still readily available to the bio-filter to convert into nitrates. for a couple of those products, read this:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17013
i very highly suggest that you get some as soon as you can. it will make you much more at ease knowing that the toxic ammonia and nitrite are being detoxified!
post back soon
The fact that youre seeing black on the fish is most likely a good thing. Black is a sign of healing from previous problems. Now that youre getting the water straightened out they are responding and healing the earlier burns. You will probably see them get more black and then over the next month or so it will fade.
I can sympathize with you being in a small house. My last apartment was tiny but I made it accomodate a 30 gallon! Who needs furniture when you can have aquariums!?
I can sympathize with you being in a small house. My last apartment was tiny but I made it accomodate a 30 gallon! Who needs furniture when you can have aquariums!?
Thanks for the link about the Ph. Thats pretty complicated for someone who struggled through basic chemistry in high school so the Ph. reducing tablets are on hold along with the meds.
Tank tested today as follows:
Ammonia 1.0 down from 2.0 yesterday
NitrIte between 0and 20 up from 0 yesterday
NitrAte still at 0
Total hardness around 250
Total alkilinity 300+
Ph. still at 8.4 Ph tablet didn't change it
I have an African Clawed frog also and the GF seem to eat all the hood before the frog gets any any suggestions on how to feed the frog without overfeeding the tank?
GF are still active and one seems to be loosing some of the black spots along it's side so your advice seems to be working out great.
Thanks again!!
Tank tested today as follows:
Ammonia 1.0 down from 2.0 yesterday
NitrIte between 0and 20 up from 0 yesterday
NitrAte still at 0
Total hardness around 250
Total alkilinity 300+
Ph. still at 8.4 Ph tablet didn't change it
I have an African Clawed frog also and the GF seem to eat all the hood before the frog gets any any suggestions on how to feed the frog without overfeeding the tank?
GF are still active and one seems to be loosing some of the black spots along it's side so your advice seems to be working out great.
Thanks again!!
Tank tests are holding steady. Ammonia is still at 1.0 NitrAte between 0-20 NitrIte is still 0. Hopefully things will improving, Thanks for all the help!!!
hi!
to make sure that your frog is eating (common problem) try putting him into a 1 gallon container (glass is best) and taking a straw, push it into the water so that it stops right above the frog and drop his (specialized?) diet down the tube. let a few peices sit in front of him and chack on him in a little while to see if he is eating. remember, be persistant.22 figure it out. hunger is a great learning tool!
anyway, are your post about the nitrItes a typo or can you not discern a more accurate number from your test kit? did you mean that the levels are between 0 and 2.0 or 0 and 20?
either way, youll need a better interpretation than 0-20ppm because you want to keep the nitrites at or below 2ppm throughout the cycling. are you adding aquarium salt at all, if not, i suggest doing so. you can add 2 3/4 level teaspoons per us gallon. pre-dissolve it in a gallon of water. only add 25% of it every 12 hours or so. this will ensure that the rise in salinity will be slow and wont shock your goldies. once youve added the total prescribed amount. you can then start adding the prescribed amount per gallon of water that you replace from water changes. the salinity of the water will help your goldies deal with the nitrites and enable them/it to more freely "breathe". once the tank is fully cycled, discontinue the salt.
good luck and keep up the diligence!
to make sure that your frog is eating (common problem) try putting him into a 1 gallon container (glass is best) and taking a straw, push it into the water so that it stops right above the frog and drop his (specialized?) diet down the tube. let a few peices sit in front of him and chack on him in a little while to see if he is eating. remember, be persistant.22 figure it out. hunger is a great learning tool!
anyway, are your post about the nitrItes a typo or can you not discern a more accurate number from your test kit? did you mean that the levels are between 0 and 2.0 or 0 and 20?
either way, youll need a better interpretation than 0-20ppm because you want to keep the nitrites at or below 2ppm throughout the cycling. are you adding aquarium salt at all, if not, i suggest doing so. you can add 2 3/4 level teaspoons per us gallon. pre-dissolve it in a gallon of water. only add 25% of it every 12 hours or so. this will ensure that the rise in salinity will be slow and wont shock your goldies. once youve added the total prescribed amount. you can then start adding the prescribed amount per gallon of water that you replace from water changes. the salinity of the water will help your goldies deal with the nitrites and enable them/it to more freely "breathe". once the tank is fully cycled, discontinue the salt.
good luck and keep up the diligence!
Thanks for the info on feeding frog. The test kif that I have(Mardel 5 in 1) does not have a reading between 0 and 20ppm. It shows 0,20,40,80,and200. What kind of test kit would you reccomend? It's sometimes difficult guessing which color reading to use because the color the test strip turns in not one on the chart. Seems like a whole lot of guessing if you ask me.
I got home late last night and didn't do a water change( it was after 11:00pm) Today I tested before the water change and the reading were the same as the previous days. Any ideas why? Do I still need to do daily water changes if the ammonia stays the same? Just wondering!
I'm still adding the salt to replace what I remove during the water changes. GF still Very active and eat their food very quickly.
Thanks again for your help!!!!
I got home late last night and didn't do a water change( it was after 11:00pm) Today I tested before the water change and the reading were the same as the previous days. Any ideas why? Do I still need to do daily water changes if the ammonia stays the same? Just wondering!
I'm still adding the salt to replace what I remove during the water changes. GF still Very active and eat their food very quickly.
Thanks again for your help!!!!
are you positive about the numbers on the test kits? i have a bottle of mardel test strips right in front of me and the nitrites colors and corresponding numbers are as follows:
Note do not make the mistake of using the saltwater testing chart for your comparisons. in fact, throw the saltwater chart away (if you havent already).
-----------------------
nitr(I)tes
0 white
0.5
1.0
3.0
5.0
10.0
-----------------------------
nitr(A)tes are as follows:
0 off-white
20
40
80
200
-----------------------
so, with this in mind, you seem to be mistaking the nitr(I)tes for nitr(A)tes and/or visa-versa. they are very different in that nit(I)tes are the more (much more) toxic ones.
re-test your tankwater and post back with the actual numbers from the test kits. remember, when you go to dip the strip, hold it under water for 1 second (max) and then pull it out immediately. hold the test strip horizontaly and wait exactly 30 seconds before comparing for ph. make your interpretation very swiftly in a well lit area. once you reach exactly 60 seconds compare for the rest (swiftly). have a pen and paper handy so you can record the numbers.
your right about test strips, they are mainly for the quick tests, in between proper check-ups. as with all test kits, there is a slight margin for error. thats mainly because of human error. comparing colors to a chart is nothing other than our interpretations of what the tests display (imagine being color-blind and trying to test) the strips are nice to have when your in a pinch. i use both but, when im taking serious measurements, i use the "liquid" dropper test kits. you can get them as master kits at most mom and pop pet shops that specialize in fish.
post back soon.
Note do not make the mistake of using the saltwater testing chart for your comparisons. in fact, throw the saltwater chart away (if you havent already).
-----------------------
nitr(I)tes
0 white
0.5
1.0
3.0
5.0
10.0
-----------------------------
nitr(A)tes are as follows:
0 off-white
20
40
80
200
-----------------------
so, with this in mind, you seem to be mistaking the nitr(I)tes for nitr(A)tes and/or visa-versa. they are very different in that nit(I)tes are the more (much more) toxic ones.
re-test your tankwater and post back with the actual numbers from the test kits. remember, when you go to dip the strip, hold it under water for 1 second (max) and then pull it out immediately. hold the test strip horizontaly and wait exactly 30 seconds before comparing for ph. make your interpretation very swiftly in a well lit area. once you reach exactly 60 seconds compare for the rest (swiftly). have a pen and paper handy so you can record the numbers.
your right about test strips, they are mainly for the quick tests, in between proper check-ups. as with all test kits, there is a slight margin for error. thats mainly because of human error. comparing colors to a chart is nothing other than our interpretations of what the tests display (imagine being color-blind and trying to test) the strips are nice to have when your in a pinch. i use both but, when im taking serious measurements, i use the "liquid" dropper test kits. you can get them as master kits at most mom and pop pet shops that specialize in fish.
post back soon.
Yep your right, I messed up! Typing is definatly not one of my strengths!
The correct results are as follows (my wife double checked them):
NitrAte between 0-20
NitrIte 0
Hardness 250
Alkilinity 300
Ph. 8.4
Any reasoning behind getting the same test results without doing the water change yesterday?
The correct results are as follows (my wife double checked them):
NitrAte between 0-20
NitrIte 0
Hardness 250
Alkilinity 300
Ph. 8.4
Any reasoning behind getting the same test results without doing the water change yesterday?
Water test resultsfor 8/5:
Ammonia 1.0
NitrAte 0-20
Nitrite 0
Results on 8/6:
Ammonia 1.0
NitrAte almost 20
NitrIte 0.5 Finally!!!
Looks like were getting there I appreciate all you help
Ammonia 1.0
NitrAte 0-20
Nitrite 0
Results on 8/6:
Ammonia 1.0
NitrAte almost 20
NitrIte 0.5 Finally!!!
Looks like were getting there I appreciate all you help
ok, hold on a sec. 
the nitrification process starts with ammonia. ammonia is converted to nitrItes. nitrites are converted to nitrAtes. the nitrates are the end of the nitrification cycle in a standard aquarium. the only way to get rid of nitrAtes is to do water changes.
with that in mind, your tank still seems to have something strange going on (according to the test strips).
i mean, one day, your nitrItes were 0 (where they should be if youve got nitrAtes). and the ammonia should have been the one to hit 0 first. but they seem to remain at 1ppm. theres a slim chance that your test kit for ammonia might be a lemon.
have you tried testing your tapwater for ammonia? if not, do so and post your results. theres a chance that you may have ammonia in your tapwater. then again, because the ph is so high, your bio-filter might be struggling to establish itself. nitrosomas and nitrobacter (bio-bugs responsible for the cyle) have a prefferred ph range and your ph is a little higher than that. thus, an extended process of sufficient colonization.
paul
the nitrification process starts with ammonia. ammonia is converted to nitrItes. nitrites are converted to nitrAtes. the nitrates are the end of the nitrification cycle in a standard aquarium. the only way to get rid of nitrAtes is to do water changes.
with that in mind, your tank still seems to have something strange going on (according to the test strips).
i mean, one day, your nitrItes were 0 (where they should be if youve got nitrAtes). and the ammonia should have been the one to hit 0 first. but they seem to remain at 1ppm. theres a slim chance that your test kit for ammonia might be a lemon. have you tried testing your tapwater for ammonia? if not, do so and post your results. theres a chance that you may have ammonia in your tapwater. then again, because the ph is so high, your bio-filter might be struggling to establish itself. nitrosomas and nitrobacter (bio-bugs responsible for the cyle) have a prefferred ph range and your ph is a little higher than that. thus, an extended process of sufficient colonization.
paul
Would adding Stress Zyme cause the strange readings? I Added some yesterday. Idont have the bottle ( have sample packages) but it said to add on day 1,7,14 and yesterday was the day 7 to add more. Am I screwing up or what? It's supposed to aid the development of biofilter. Use it on not? By the way the GF that had the most black spots seems to bee turning gold again but the other is getting blacker,is he just now healing or what? Also looks like his mouth (lips) is turning white almost like a fuzz in it. Any ideas?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
so, did you check the tapwater for ammonia?
the stress zyme might very well be causing these abnormalities on the test results but, it shouldnt adversely affect the colonization of the beneficial bacteria. just for good measure, stop using the stress-zyme for now.
however, even once you get the cycle to complete, your still going to have problems with having so many goldfish in such a small tank. theres just no way that your going to be able to keep them all healthy and happy in there for very long. that leaves you with an important decision to make. do you get a bigger tank? or do you bring a couple goldfish back to the shop? something will definitely have to be done.
keep doing what your doing. dont allow the ammonia to go any higher than 1ppm. and dont allow the nitrites to go any higher than 2ppm. your cycle WILL eventually become established.
paul
the stress zyme might very well be causing these abnormalities on the test results but, it shouldnt adversely affect the colonization of the beneficial bacteria. just for good measure, stop using the stress-zyme for now.
however, even once you get the cycle to complete, your still going to have problems with having so many goldfish in such a small tank. theres just no way that your going to be able to keep them all healthy and happy in there for very long. that leaves you with an important decision to make. do you get a bigger tank? or do you bring a couple goldfish back to the shop? something will definitely have to be done.
keep doing what your doing. dont allow the ammonia to go any higher than 1ppm. and dont allow the nitrites to go any higher than 2ppm. your cycle WILL eventually become established.
paul
Well It took a several discussions with my wife but I finally convinced her we NEEDED a biger tank. Here is what I came home with today:
46 gal bow front tank and stand
Emperor 400 (bio-wheel) filter
Fluval 204 canister filter
The lady at Petsmart was an avid GF fanatic and reccomended circulating the water 10 times an hour thus the additional canister filter.
I have been reading pros and cons of doing a fishless cycle to save stress on GF so I ask you if this would be better or not. Can't decide wether to cycle fishless or with fish since my first tank os so over crowded! Could also get feeder fish to cycle new tank maybe a little faster.
I have tank in place with filters set up ready to go but no gravel or water yet. I also picked up a package of "Biozyme" and a bottle of "Cycle" in hopes to getting the tank cycled quicker and save undue stress on the GF in the small tank. I have heard good and not-so good reports on these products but it may be worth the try. Please let me know what route you would take to get this tank established.
Should I start a new discussion under "Tanks" or keep this one going and see if we can hit page 3 in a couple days?
Thanks again for the help, cant wait to get the big one going but not at the risk of the problems Im having hith the 10 gal tank!
46 gal bow front tank and stand
Emperor 400 (bio-wheel) filter
Fluval 204 canister filter
The lady at Petsmart was an avid GF fanatic and reccomended circulating the water 10 times an hour thus the additional canister filter.
I have been reading pros and cons of doing a fishless cycle to save stress on GF so I ask you if this would be better or not. Can't decide wether to cycle fishless or with fish since my first tank os so over crowded! Could also get feeder fish to cycle new tank maybe a little faster.
I have tank in place with filters set up ready to go but no gravel or water yet. I also picked up a package of "Biozyme" and a bottle of "Cycle" in hopes to getting the tank cycled quicker and save undue stress on the GF in the small tank. I have heard good and not-so good reports on these products but it may be worth the try. Please let me know what route you would take to get this tank established.
Should I start a new discussion under "Tanks" or keep this one going and see if we can hit page 3 in a couple days?
Thanks again for the help, cant wait to get the big one going but not at the risk of the problems Im having hith the 10 gal tank!
A couple of additional questions, what is the best placement of the intake and discharge pipes in the canister filter in respect to the bio-wheel filter? Should the discharge nozzel point into the middle of tank or point parallel with the side?
Thanks!
Thanks!
shane,
since weve taken this thread along this far, we might as well "keep on truckin"!
alright!!!
i commend you on your purchases. i think that your going to like the high quality filtration that you chose. and the girl at the shop definitely knows her goldfish. thats good, its always a boon to share experiences with another local avid goldie keeper!
as for the bio-zyme, im not familiar with that product. for nitrification boosters, a way to tell how well it should work is this; if the product was rather expensive and the storage directions says to keep it refrigerated, it should certainly aid in getting your bio-filter to establish rather quickly. some of the more cheaply bought products such as the "cycle" dont seem to help much at all (if at all). but, i suppose youll have to do with what youve got.
a way to feed the bio-filter while it is establishing is to use household, pure ammonia. for more on that, read this: fishless cycle
i would go ahead and try the fishless cycle with ammonia. keep testing daily and record your results for referencing. if the products that you bought are any good, your new tank should be cycled in less than a week.
the intake screen/tube of the filters is best kept at the gravel level. this will allow efficient "pick-up" of any sinking debris that settles to the gravel. the return should be kept just under the water surface to allow for good agitation of the surface (in effect, increasing aeration to optimal levels). it doesnt really matter where you place the canisters return in relation to the emperors. although, pointing it towards the front of the tank should suffice.
good luck and let us know how you get along with your new project. once your new tnk is cycled and you transfer the fish to it, keep the ten gallon going. you dont need to keep the light on, just add ammonia to it every couple of days or so. this will keep it cycled and will give you a nice "hospital/quarentine tank" that all aquarist should utilize. new additions should be kept in that tank for up to a month before adding it to your main tank. otherwise, parsites and bacterial infections could spread (or be passed on) to your other fish. or, if on of your fish wetre to ever get sick, youll have an excellent treatment tank. thats because many bacterial/parasitic treatments on the market can have adverse reactions on the bio-filter and you dont need that to happen to the main tank, ever.
one thing though, did you ever test your tapwater for ammonia?
paul
since weve taken this thread along this far, we might as well "keep on truckin"!
alright!!!
i commend you on your purchases. i think that your going to like the high quality filtration that you chose. and the girl at the shop definitely knows her goldfish. thats good, its always a boon to share experiences with another local avid goldie keeper! as for the bio-zyme, im not familiar with that product. for nitrification boosters, a way to tell how well it should work is this; if the product was rather expensive and the storage directions says to keep it refrigerated, it should certainly aid in getting your bio-filter to establish rather quickly. some of the more cheaply bought products such as the "cycle" dont seem to help much at all (if at all). but, i suppose youll have to do with what youve got.
a way to feed the bio-filter while it is establishing is to use household, pure ammonia. for more on that, read this: fishless cycle
i would go ahead and try the fishless cycle with ammonia. keep testing daily and record your results for referencing. if the products that you bought are any good, your new tank should be cycled in less than a week.
the intake screen/tube of the filters is best kept at the gravel level. this will allow efficient "pick-up" of any sinking debris that settles to the gravel. the return should be kept just under the water surface to allow for good agitation of the surface (in effect, increasing aeration to optimal levels). it doesnt really matter where you place the canisters return in relation to the emperors. although, pointing it towards the front of the tank should suffice.
good luck and let us know how you get along with your new project. once your new tnk is cycled and you transfer the fish to it, keep the ten gallon going. you dont need to keep the light on, just add ammonia to it every couple of days or so. this will keep it cycled and will give you a nice "hospital/quarentine tank" that all aquarist should utilize. new additions should be kept in that tank for up to a month before adding it to your main tank. otherwise, parsites and bacterial infections could spread (or be passed on) to your other fish. or, if on of your fish wetre to ever get sick, youll have an excellent treatment tank. thats because many bacterial/parasitic treatments on the market can have adverse reactions on the bio-filter and you dont need that to happen to the main tank, ever.
one thing though, did you ever test your tapwater for ammonia?
paul
Thanks for the info and yes I did test tap water, it showed 0 ammonia.
Sorry I kept forgetting to post the results.Tank is now full and running Can't wait to get the goldies in there!
Sorry I kept forgetting to post the results.Tank is now full and running Can't wait to get the goldies in there!
good luck!
let us know how everything turns out, ok?
paul
let us know how everything turns out, ok?
paul
Will do! This tank looks awsome with the light on and all the other lights in the room off, the rooms seems to glow.
Are there any effective way to hide all the hoses and electrical cords that run down the back except for the putting up the film on the back or big planst inside? Just trying to dress it up a little.
Tanks fot all your hepl!
Shane
Are there any effective way to hide all the hoses and electrical cords that run down the back except for the putting up the film on the back or big planst inside? Just trying to dress it up a little.
Tanks fot all your hepl!
Shane
Try and keep us posted, it's a long journey to establish the beloved fishtank, but once you do you might be in love for a long time. 
You can tie the cords, or tape them [[although gently, so it's not PULLING at your electrical appliances]] and put some neat decorations and plants in the tank to hide the cords. That's what we always did and it looked fine.
That's what we always did and it looked fine.
But when you get the fish in there, they should take away all noticable attention from the wires.
Also, you might want to start testing the new tank [[not every day, because you know just how the cycle was started, and you aren't completely left in the dark]] to make sure that it's a better environment for the fishes. Trust me, when you start to love goldfish -- you start to love goldfish.
Also, you might want to start testing the new tank [[not every day, because you know just how the cycle was started, and you aren't completely left in the dark]] to make sure that it's a better environment for the fishes.
Trust me, when you start to love goldfish -- you start to love goldfish.
Well I have looked at the two biggest grocery stores and Wall-mart and cannot find pure ammoiia anywhere. So next door to wally world I bought a dozen feeder fish to put in new tank to get the ammonia up and started. I was told they wouldnt live long especially going through the "cycle" period. The frog seems to like having them over for dinner( so to speek). Well if nothing else froggy will eat good. Thanks for the info on the hiding hoses and cords! Thats what I have been doing, just need to get taller plants to hide more.
Well the new tank tested as follows:
Ammonia 0.50
NitrAte 20
NitrIte 3.0
Keep in mind I added both Bio-Zyme and Cycle in hopes to jump start "cycle"
Maybe should have done one or the other. But I was hoping to get two strains of bio-bugs going in hopes that one may be more resistant to my high Ph.We'll see if it works or not.
Well I gotta go the boss(wife) says supper is done and I can't let down my figure.
See ya and thanks as allways!
Well the new tank tested as follows:
Ammonia 0.50
NitrAte 20
NitrIte 3.0
Keep in mind I added both Bio-Zyme and Cycle in hopes to jump start "cycle"
Maybe should have done one or the other. But I was hoping to get two strains of bio-bugs going in hopes that one may be more resistant to my high Ph.We'll see if it works or not.
Well I gotta go the boss(wife) says supper is done and I can't let down my figure.
See ya and thanks as allways!
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