I have four small fish in a 10 gal tank, with a heater (set at 72 degrees), and filter, some plastic plants, a mangrove root style ornament and a small amount of gravel. Ammonia is fine, as is nitrate and nitrite. I've just sorted out the pH by adding a buffer as my local water is crap and has no buffering capacity whatsoever (goes acidic almost straight away). pH will (should) now rise slowly to 7.5. I feed no more than a pinch every day with the occasional pea or protein supplement.

Everyone else looks fine, and although they didn't look great before the water change, they're definately improving now.

Thing is, one of my black moors has a pink area around his anus. It's slowly grown in size over the past few days and although it doesn't seem to be effecting him much at the moment, I'd rather nip whatever it is in the bud. It's definately not something attached to his body.. more like a loss of pigment around the area.. Scales seem uneffected at the moment.

It's hard to describe and I haven't got a photo but it's about the size of a penny and sort of covers both sides and underneath, right at the back of his body on the bottom. When I first noticed it, it looked like he was having trouble pooing (casings hanging out) so I fasted them for two days and followed with some peas and the water change the following day. I've since watched him poop.

The patch doesn't seem to be improving yet.. should I wait a bit longer?

Has anyone got any ideas what this might be? My initial reaction was that it was bacterial as my filter is a bit crap and I lost another fish to some open sores it gained whilst scrapping.

Could the fish be pregnant or something? he (she possibly) is a pretty fat one so it might be hard to tell. I'm pretty sure one of them is a male and the other three are female but I doubt they'd be up for breeding in acidic water.. so I just don't know!!

PLEASE HELP! as you can tell from my post.. I'm panicing a bit!!!

cheers,
Justin.

I don't know what the illness may be. 4 goldfish in a 10 gallon won't work. Goldfish put out 4 times as much waste as other fish. So even if you are cycled, you will start to see all sorts of problems. In fact, the chinese breed their fish so well with constant water changes, you rarely will even need medicine when you follow their methodology.

So my advice is look for a bigger tank. 10-20 gallons per goldfish is the rule. Before getting a 40gallon, make a 50 percent water change. Watch that you don't break the cycle (if you are cycled). But continue with changing out some water each day. I rarely worry about what disease I see in my fish. If they do get in a sick tank, I change out water constantly until they look better. Then I treat if necessary.

That's my 2 cents, but if someone else gives you a correct diagnosis, then go for it with the treatment, but the water capacity is where I would start.

I know I've got too many in there but they're really small.. no longer than an inch, inch and a half.. is it really too many to have in there?

If a bigger tank is a problem (space) would you suggest an external filter perhaps? Obviously, I don't particularly want to get rid of any fish at the moment. I'll certainly look out for a better tank in the meantime though.

Unfortunately I was told by my pet shop I could have up to 7 goldfish in there.. I though that was a little high so I'd opted for less.. I should've gone for one..

If I carry out a 30% change every other day will that wreck my cycle?

it's weird this... if I fanny around with them too much, they're constantly ill but if I leave them alone, they're not.. until something like this happens!!!

Is there any info you can give me on this chinese methodology you're refering to.

cheers,
Justin.

pet stores really don't have a clue! Goldies put out a LOT of waste like ammonia. This is one reason why they need so much water per fish. As already stated, The rule of thumb is 10 gallons to every goldie. In addition to the waste issue, it has to do with quality of life. the fish need a lot of room to swim and exercise. They get big FAST! My 1 1/2 inch goldies grew to 3 inches each within one year. After 2 1/2 years they all between 8-6 inches each.(from mouth to end of fin) Frequent water changes are good, but a lot of work. In my opinion, frequent water changes can mess up the cycle.

Please find a bigger tank and keep the 10 gallon for a hospital tank. I have a 40 gallon tank with 3 goldies. I have 2 filters one 300 Aquaclear and one Aquaclear mini. In the evenyt of a sicjk fish, I get out the 10 gallon, move the mini on the back of the 10 gallonand fill it with water from the 40 gallon. This way, the hospital tank has cycled media and less stress for a sick fish. (Plus an extra water change for the main tank!)

I am sorry, but I cannot answer about why your fish has a pink bottom. I think it is related to water issues as well. Good luck.

Shopping for a bigger tank is a great idea. If you find a filter you like, but can't get the tank, you could put it on your 10 gallon for better water movement. The emporor or penguins have great biological filtration.

A 30percent water change is a good idea, especially since you may be haveing problems and 4 fish is too much. Yes, even if they are 1 inch each it is going to be bad for them soon.

It also doesn't sound like you are cycled, so they have the added stress of that since you have to reach a spike in ammonia for bacteria to develop.

Personally, I wouldn't try to cycle your 10 gallon and look for a bigger tank and plan where you want it. The big tanks are such a pleasure. You will love it. And the fish you have are very beautiful. Get the biggest tank you can. You may be tempted to more later! But don't do it if you go beyond those 10 gallons. It is much more care-free to have them!

We're here routing for ya, casinoman !

It is possible that he is just losing the pigment on his belly. Black is a highly unstable color in goldfish and eventually most black moors end up turning orange! The color on their underside is first to go and it turns a bronze-orange color. It may even be a pinkish color like youre describing.

It doesnt sound like a disease to me, really. The "pooing" problem is probably just a result of stress since he is a new fish. That should straighten out soon when you have him in a clean cycled tank.

For now I would recommend doing like you said about a 30% water change every other day. Are you running an undergravel filter? Yes, I definitely do recommend external filters, especially for goldfish. Undergravels just trap all that goldie waste down under the gravel where you cant get to it. My favorite filters are the Biowheels by Marineland. Ive had mine for 2 1/2 years and have never had a problem. Its very easy to clean–just replace the cartridge regularly. It also pours a nice little waterfall into the tank and oxygenates it very well.

i was going to say the same thing that jsrtist said. possible color change. then again, it could also be possible that your moor is just growing and as the belly expands, the skin coloring underneath the matte (black scales) is peeking out. does that make sense?

as for that many goldies in one tank: it might be fine for now but, they will most definitely need a bigger tank within 3 months (or 3 inches). if you want to be sure to keep them healthy and happy, your gonna want to work on getting a bigger tank (or two smaller ones) as soon as you can.

oh, and i second jsrtists suggestion of the penguin bio-wheels!

i hope its nothing to worry about.

thanks so much for all your replies.. only a couple actually refering to the pink bottom issue but I appreciate you all have you opinions on how big the tank should've been.

I've been watching little Bifta closely over the past few days and for long periods of time during feeding. He (who knows!!) doesn't seem to be having problems feeding or swimming and doesn't seem stressed at all. He especially enjoyed the algae,daphnia,pea mix they had tonight - my own recipe! The patch doesn't really seem to be getting smaller or going black again (from a sort of translucent pink colour - definately not bronze) but he seems to be coping fine.

As for cycling the tank.. it took a while but I actually have no ammonia or nitrate in there.. just a slowly rising nitrite level which is reduced every time I do a water change. I'm certainly going to increase the frequency of water changes but as you've said, too much fresh water will crash the cycle so I'll have to be careful.

I'm going to take your advice and get an external filter to get much more of that water cleaned up. I want to provide a good home for my fish. I just wish pet shops would take a bit more responsibility. I had no idea of any of this when I first started and was told I could have 7 in that tank! madness I tell you!

I honestly don't think I can get a bigger tank so I'll just have to do my best with what I have. If I focus on finding a balance between the number of water changes and the level of filtration I should be able to maintain decent water quality (also a pain when you live in a city - the water has already been used at least 200 times for something else!)

message to the fish: Live long and don't grow!