Hi guys I have a question about my betta. One of his fins looks alittle more "frayed" than it did. At least I think. Frayed probably isn't the word. Maybe alittle fringed???
I noticed the other day this fin (sorry i don't know the name of it, but it is the fin along his abdomen) seemed to have a reddish hue in one place. I wasn't to worried because of his coloring. Even though he is blue he has a touch of green and red.
I just changed his water today, it has been about 6 days since I did one.
As I look at him I have to say I think something is going on.

Help, Can't have anything happen to Chicken.
Thanks for any thoughts to what could be going on.

Laurie

Betta Experts, I have read past posts and decided to add some salt to the water @ 1/2 teaspoon per gal. Is this correct?
Also I plan on changing his water daily or every other day to keep it pristine, which do you think???

I don't have the filter on the tank and am liking not having it. I was only going to change the water 1 time/wk but that seems long and it looked alittle gross today before I changed it.
So how often is changing it to much? And is it bad to change it every 2 or 3 days???

Thanks, Laurie

Hey Laurie,if his fin is just starting to look a little "fringed",I think I would try the water changes more often myself,and just keep an eye on the fins-I really feel more comfortable waiting til I really know that i'm needing to use salt or meds for sure.Also,is there anything in tank that he may be brushing up against that might be tearing up his tail a little?(Just to rule out other reasons)

Thanks Devs. His fins look worse this morning. I did add a rock ornamnet Sat. However I don't think it is abrasive in any way, but I'll try removing it and see.

Thanks Did you see his picture?

Laurie - what size tank do you have him in? I have been changing Flames water once a week - he is in a 5 gallon. Chicken may just be really sensative. Keep us posted.

laurie, what kind of water dechlor are you using? Your problem I'm 99% sure is ammonia affecting Chicken's fins. I know that some bettas are very sensitive to ammonia and others are not so sensitive. Using Amquel & NovAqua combo will usually do the trick, by binding the ammonia- also Prime dechlor is very good i've heard. I use Amquel & NovAqua myself and have found that Chethter, the betta that cannot keep a fin structure for more than a few days has really grown back a lot of his finnage by using the Amquel. For now, if I were you, I would test your tap water, test Chicken's water and then step up the water changes using amquel and novaqua up to every 4 days. Get the amquel - it really is the best quality for bettas - i promise!

Lachfa, he is in a 2.5 gal mini bow. I'm going to change his water every 2 days to see if it is the water.

Jillian, the conditioner I have is Stress Coat and one by Proquatics. When I go to the lfs I will get the Amequel or Prime. I have seen the Prime product but not the Amequel. I will look. The ammonia out of the tap is 0.

It would figure I get a fish that is sesitive.

Thanks for your advice.
Laurie

don't worry! my first betta was (is) sensitive and i cried and cried all day and night WHY does his fins look like he swam through the fan!? then he started to chew on his fins on top of that! it was a mess. don't worry, you're doing everything you're supposed to. with a 2.5 gallon tank, prime's measurements would be tough to handle as one capful is good for 50 gallons...so the amquel might be a better choice. i'm sure you can get it on the net and if not, i'd be glad to send you some if need be we have it all over here.
awww, enjoy chicken, he's not mad, he's glad hehe

Prime is 2 drops per gallon

how much is a drop? what do you use to measure a "drop"? a eye dropper? a turkey baster? tip it over and let it spill twice?

Ok update. I have been changing his water every other day since Mon. and he is no better, infact it looks alittle worse. The red color in his fins in my opinion getting worse as well. So I think it is blood.

Now what????
I have no idea where to go from here. He is so different than the goldies.

Laurie

can you post a pic for us??

Take absolutely everything out of his tank, leave it barebottomed with maybe a live plant for security.

Gradually cut back on the salt, and maybe cut your water changes back down to once a week. in 2.5 gals you shouldn't have any ammonia buildup by then anyways. Test daily just to be sure.
Netting is very stressful on a fish!


So if you can, a picture would help alot..

gee Martinez, that was kind of sarcastic, don't you think?

the Prime bottle is designed to come out drop by drop.. I trust them that the bottle dispenses it in the proper size...

Lyndzi I will try and post a pic tomorrow. There is nothing in his tank but a smooth glass dish with a little gravel and a smooth silk plant. I removed the rock I had in there yesturday. I changed his water this am and it is disgusting tonight. There is a white film on top and on bottom. His fins look so red (just the abdomen fin). I'm afraid to not change the water.
I work tomorrow so I may have the hubby post the pic.

Thanks Laurie

PS thanks for the drop advice I wasn't sure what you meant. Now I know

Have you tried the 'pantyhose' test on your rock and plant? Run a stretched out piece of nylon stocking over rougher edges of decorations, if it snags, then your bettas fins may snag too.

Just the two little fins in front? Or the big anal fin? And it's definately bloody?
Are you using a net or a cup?

That white film I think I read is protein buildup... but I get it on most of my still standing bowls that aren't cleaned frequently, like my 5 gallon betta tank. It's kind of slimy and it gets all gunky on your fingers, right?

Have you tested the ammonia right before you change the water?

I still think that changing the water that often is stressing him a bit too, especially if you're using a net. Maybe if you moved the tank to a different room it wouldn't get the buildup? I only get it on one level of my house oddly

If he doesn't seem to be getting any better, or is getting worse,
then maybe cut back water changes to every 5-7 days, more frequently if you're getting any ammonia (which you shouldn't if everything is a-okay with your tank and feeding regime)

Is it better, worse today?
Sorry for so many questions, this just seems really odd! Nothing glaringly wrong...

Oh I had a lightbulb...

Is this slimy white stuff on the betta too? Any clearish strands hanging off his body?

Hi Lyndzi don't worry about all the quest. Thanks for your input.
I don't use a net I scoop him up in his cup he came in. I read somewhere nets are baaaadd.
The film just seems to be the water on top and on the bottom it is like "dust bunnies" nothing seems to be on him or hanging off him.
He is the same today, maybe alittle better I'm gonna wait until I make that call.
The fin that is mostly frayed is his main abdomen fin the big one. His two long fins (like his arms) in front are white tipped. He came that way so I thought it was just his coloring. Those 2 fins also at the top of them were always alittle red. They each had a red dot on them like that was their coloring as well.
I don't test the water before I change it. He does seem quite happy when I do clean it. To be such a Chicken in the begining, he loves any attention he gets.
The white tips on these fins, could it be his color or is it something bad? And how do you tell. I do think there is more white than in the begining.

Thanks for you help

PS he is still eating and seems to be healthy despite this fin prob.

Update, He is looking worse today. His whole body was turning purple, I figure the reason being he is blue and his skin is pooling with blood (red) they make purple. Anyway, it has been 2 days since I changed his water, so I tested for ammonia and it was .50 Poor thing no wonder why he is suffering. I immediately changed his water and added salt.

How can the ammonia get so high so quick??? Ammonia reading out of the tap is 0. He doesn't produce much waste, what could be causing this? Any ideas please help. I don't want Chicken to suffer. Since this ammonia problem is occuring would it be ok to change his water every day until we get this figured out?

Thanks, Laurie

ammonia can easily build-up in such a small tank. theres just no way around it. honestly, if youve got no filtration in the 2.5 gallon tank, you should be doing water changes at least twice a week (maybe more). as with any fish, pristine water is a must when youve got them in a small environment. the best way to ensure that the water is pristine is: biological filtration and/or water changes. with that in mind, it is my belief that you cant do too many water changes when your dealing with an unfiltered environment. again, pristine water is key when dealing with finrot or any bacterial infection. and like somebody said earlier, prime or amquel+ works a charm by locking up any present ammonia.

as for the purple coloring, how long have you had him? is the purple coloring mainly on his anal fin and/or his head?

post back soon.

Thanks Paul.
The purple coloring started off pinkish hue in his anal fin. The front 1/2 of his body has always been dark, but no red in it. The pink in the fin started getting darker, to a blood red hue. Then the 2 red spots on his ventral fins started getting bigger, they are the color of a stop sign. Today I have noticed that this red hue is now starting to develop in the caudal fin and his body has taken on a red purple hue. I know it is not his color, It is hard for me to explain. It's like laying a red see thru veil over a dark blue paper. Does that make sense?
There are now brighter streaks of red in his anal fin.
It is like a bruise (his body that is). YOu know when the blood pools under the skin. That is a good way to describe it.

Thanks for the water advice, Some had suggested to only change it once or at the most 2 times a week. So that was what I was shooting for, but I never have been able to do it. My husband is trying to talk me into putting the filter on and the heater. I don't know. I go back and forth what I want to do. I do know I don't want Chicken to suffer. I just think changing the water every other day is easier in this little tank than to run the filter in it. Any thoughts???

Thanks Laurie

well, that depends on what kind of filter you get. there are little air driven filters that are a small box w/filter floss/sponge. it operates in much the same way that an undergravel filter does. AND, once sufficiently colonized, it will keep all ammonia and nitrites at bay until you can perform a 50 % water change each week. (thats right, i said 1 change a week). anyway, ill go look for the link to them so you can see what im talking about. ill post back soon.

as for heating the tank, its not really necessary if youve got him in a room that stays a bit warm. 76-82 degrees is a good temp to shoot for. but, the steadier, the better.

anyway, ill be back.

heres a link to some of the available mini cartridge filters i was referring to:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/catego...id1=2885;pcid2=

Laurie -

How's chicken doing??? Is he feeling/looking better??

Jenn

Hi Laurie,just wanted to say that I totally believe what Paul told you allready--it is all about pristene water.-You have to keep up on those-bettas do so much better with clean water and their fins mending. Because Chicken is in a 2.5 tank,I think I'd just go with a filter,and be done with it. nnnnnn carries this rectangular green filter that's pretty small and narrow-god I can't think of the brand for nothing right now!! Any way,they sell it alone,or in a kit with pump-roughly about 10.00 give or take a dollar either way-They're perfect for small tanks,and they hardly take up any room at all. I just recently dealt with Morpheous and tail rot...It was getting worse and worse,then to top it off,he got ick and it was to a point where I was doing ick meds-his tail/fins were rotting down to nothing,and he looked like he was going to die,Now I've heard that bettas were sensitive to salt,but he was so bad that I thought if I don't do somthing drastic,he's gonna die. I did a complete water change-slapped a filter in there(which I think you need if you're not doing water changes every couple days)salted his tank 3% and went to bed.By the next day,it was amazing!!! Not only was the horrible ick all but gone,his fins looked short,but allready a 100% better-I couldn't believe it! It's been about a week /maybe closer to two and his fins are growing and looking pretty again.

Thanks guys. The mini bow he is in came with a filter, I just left it off. His body doesn't look as "bruised" but his fins are still a mess. I will later today see if hubby can figure out the filter and stick it on there. Now when I do the water change should be 1 time a week and 50% Right? I will try and see if I can use a piece of the filter media out of the goldie tank so cycling will be quick.

Thanks for your help I will keep you guys posted.

Laurie

i could have sworn those mini-bows came with filters! it made me think, "where is lauries?". anyway, thats good that youve got it. if you do indeed take a peice of filter floss from another well established bio-filter, that would be ideal. if the water flow seems to be too much for your betta to handle (cant sit still), just add a few more plants and ornaments or baffle the water return with some extra filter floss.

water changes in a filtered environment should be dictated by nitrates and ph/kh. over time, without water changes, not only do nitrates rise steadily but, kh can drop and allow your ph to fluctuate (depending on local water chemistry). so, to keep your water as stable as possible, i would do 30-50% water changes every week.

as for now, you should take him out of his tank and put him into a 1-2 gallon container and keep him there until his tank/filter is cycled (100% water changes are needed in this container daily). if you dont put him in a separate container, the params will be fluctuating in the tank with him in it (not good for an already sick fish). while the tank is cycling you can feed it some food (about half of what you feed your betta daily) every other day until completion. just before adding more food, do a gravel vac to get rid of the old food. once you see that the ammonia and nitrites are 0 you can do a big enough water change to lower the nitrates below 20 (if need be). all in all it should be lees than a week before the mini-bow is cycled. once thats done your little guy is ready to be put back into his little palace.

oh yeah, just so you know, the white tipped pelvic fins are very normal.

good luck laurie!

Thanks Paul, I will look into putting him some where. I have no idea where though. The mini is bare bottom, the plant and gravel are in a glass dish. I didn't want to have gravel on the bottom it'll scratch up this acrylic tank. We already had it bought when I realized it was acrylic. I like glass tanks better.

One question though, so far I have been able to keep him without a heater but with the filter churning up the water I will probably need one Yes??

Laurie

You're right Paul,they do come with filter! I actally have two of those tanks!!! I forgot though because I didn't use the filters-didn't like them...Ignore me-it's my work week,and I'm running on empty!!

Devs, what about those filters didn't you like? Do you have other filters on those tanks?'

Laurie

yes. im not positive but, i think that moving water stays cooler than still water. so, maybe you should go get a heater. BUT, spare no expense! get the most expensive one that you can get (for a tank that small anyway. a 100 watt would be ideal. theres a company, i cant remember the name right now, that makes very good ones that dont actually let the glass have really hot spots. it distributes the heat very evenly over the surface of the glass tube. not to mention that its completely submersible. anyway, ill do a search and see if i can find it for you.

paul

ok, heres what i found. marineland is the manufacturer of the heaters that i spoke of. AND they come in a whole assortment of sizes look at this:

http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_vtherm.asp

you can get the 25 watt (perfect for a 2.5 gallon) here:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...1;pcid1=;pcid2=

with most heaters, its a good idea to get a heater that is one step up from the recommended size. in theory, the heater wont have to work as hard to keep the water at a stable temp. the 25 watt, it should be perfect. but, thats entirely up to you.

Laurie-

My 2 2 gal tanks have been OK temp wise with the filters on (On is an ugf & the other is a whisper) The fish are acting fine - active etc.

The one I had with a very active bubbler (I just got it - it's the one I got under cover for my husband - ha ha ha) I had to turn it off. Too much current. Fins looked like those people in the memorex commercial.

I'm working on something else for that tank right now (the betta keeps hiding out in spongebob - he's very cute!!)

I'm not sure what'll happen in the winter. Right now even the big tank is at 74 without a heater (& we have central air).

Dunno if this helps???

Hope Chicken gets better soonest!



Jenn


Edit:
I didn't know Paul posted right before me. (Have to type faster I guess)

Paul you do the best research!!

Thanks Paul, I'll probably go with the Big Al's one. I may have to wait for a couple weeks. With my hubby laid off fish stuff isn't in the budget. I may wait on the filter as well, what do you think? I don't keep my house any where near 70 if anything it is about 68 sometimes cooler. So it is hard keeping Chicken's tank warm. I leave the light on and he is by a window, some sun not to much hits his tank. So far that is enough to keep it warm enough for him. But with the filter, do you think it would still keep him warm enough? I know it really is a judgement call but you guys have so much more experience.
Thanks again Paul, you have helped me so.

Thanks too Jenn.

i dont see any reason why you cant get the filter going right away. unless you dont have all the peices or something. why not?

as for keeping him warmfor now, thats a tough one. you seem to be doing all you can. 68-70 degrees is a bit nippy for a betta though. is there a room that you could keep him in that doesnt have a draft or stays relatively warm (you probably already have him there, huh?) anyway, im sure he can hold out for a coupla weeks. do get one eventually.

anyway, hows your little guy doing?

Thanks Paul. I am going to get the filter going soon. He is about the same. I worked today so I have yet to really spend some time with him. I changed his water as soon as I got home.
His attitude is great. Along with his appetite.
His fins don't look any worse. As for the heater, he is in the warmest spot, It has gotten so we move the tank away from the window at night so the breeze don't cool the tank down. I keep the light on and when he is by the window (so the sun will heat the tank) I keep the sunlight out by blocking the light with a towel.
What we won't do for these children.

Thanks again for your help

The ammonia reading is really puzzling... in a 2.5 you shouldn't get ammonia until after the first week..
How much are you feeding him? Do you have any live plants in the tank now?

I hope you get this stuff sorted!!

HI Lyndzi, I feed him about 5 - 6 pellets a day. I split them up into 2 feedings. He eats them in a matter of seconds. There is no live plant. Just a glass dish with some gravel and a silk plant in there. So I have no idea where the ammonia is coming from

Hey Laurie -

Have you tested your tap water?? Mine comes with .5 ammonia. Yup straight from the tap.

It's frustrating because even after water changes, I always have ammonia.

How's Chicken doing??

Jenn

I think he is still the same. I did notice a spot on each side of his gills, I'm watching it to see if there is something going on.

No ammonia out of the tap, I check that everytime I get an ammonia spike of some kind. You cant' be to careful.

Laurie

yeah, ammonia builds up a bit faster than one might think.


i hope chicken gets better soon!

Excellent information on diagnosing disease/problems with Bettas and treatments:

http://www.bettatalk.com/

Jeanne