Ammonia Level
0

Tank size(How many Gals) and How long has it been running
20L Gallon

Nitrite
Zero

How often do you change the water and how much?
Once a week - 50%

Nitrate
Zero

Filtration
Dual Filter Tetra up to 60 Gallons

Ph Level
7.8

Water additives/conditioners,
Tap Water Conditioner

What do you feed your fish?
ProGold and fresh Plants

Medications add to the tank?
None

How many fish in the tank and there size?
Two med sized (3.75 inch bodies)

Any new fish added to the tank?
Nope

Any unusual findings on the fish? Such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins, fungus
Nope

Any unusual behavior? Like staying at the bottom, not eating, ect..
Yeah, trouble maintaining level rest. Tendency to float.



Swim bladder disease is about ready to take another life. If I would have known this was going to be such a common issue, I might not have gotten into fishkeeping. It's heartbreaking for my family. This fish is the first fish we ever kept. She's been with us for 4 years now and I expected her to live a long healthy life. We lost our first to this disease last year. Our 2.5 year old Calico. This really sux. We have not replaced Spot. I'm not sure we'll replace Goldie either. I guess I'm just venting here. How common is this? Anyone have any figures?

I find it rather suspicious that you have no nitrates......even with a 50% water change there should be SOMETHING there if your bio-cycle was working. The ammonia is processed releasing the nitrites, which in turn is processed releasing the nitrates. A 50% water change will only dilute the nitrates to 50% of their original concentration, not remove them entirely. So, either you are not getting any cycle done at all (not likely, for your ammonia would be sky high), or your test kits are not doing their job.

What type of test kits are you using? Do you remember to shake the nitrate bottle well before adding it? (30 seconds). Do you remember to shake the nitrate solution in the tube at least 1 minute and allow it to develop for 5 minutes? Could your test be old or somehow compromised?

It seriously sounds like there is something wrong here - and my guess would be that there are toxins in the water that you are somehow not seeing because of faulty test equipment. The reaction of your fish suggests nitirte and/or nitrate poisoning.

Let us know what test kits you are using and what the expiration dates on them are.

Please do not give up on keeping fish - you must enjoy them or you would not have worked all this hard to keep them for 4 years! Flipover/floatyness are very very very common - usually because of some type of water difficulties. High nitrates and constipation are easily 50% of the problem fish I have been given, and these problems usually are a result of a fish that has been exposed to high ammonia or nitrites sometime in its life, making it far more suceptible to these difficulties.

The other 50% of the flipped fish I am given to cure are flipped because people did not keep the water in good condition through faulty information or a failure of equipment in many cases.

Since you obviously know what you are doing, and have had success for 4 years, I would guess that there is something here slipping past you because of a failure of equipment of some nature.

Go practice your superiority somewhere else, Daryl. You did this to me with Spot. The questions I posed are "How common is this? Anyone have any figures?" It's people like you that give this board a bad name. Please don't respond to my posts. For everyone else, I found this info...

http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/fres...f/swimbldr.html
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgoldfish.html

I suspect the ProGold diet has much to do with Goldie's condition. Only other food I've fed my fish is peas.

I am sorry about your inferiority. I am also sorry that you are such a snob that you do not feel comfortable enough to speak with people from all walks of life.

In the future I shall avoid your posts as per your request. I hope that others can help you in a simple enough form that you will be able to understand the answers.

Don't give up on keeping fish!!! I've always thought that you had the coolest tank of any I've seen on here, I love it!! As far as the SBD, I had a Ryukin that got it, and this was before I found this place. He had it for a year, off and on. he'd be fine for a month, then start floating again. This has been about a year ago, sadly, he passed on. The fish I have now haven't had it (knocks on wood), but I know that it's just the odds. One of them will probably end up getting it, cuz I've noticed that there's always ONE in the bunch that ends up being floaty or sinky.

Boy, are people being snarky today!

Gldfshkpr, you didn't specify what *kind* of fish you have. This is a big part of the problem/solution. The "fancy" fish -- Orandas, Ranchus, Moors, etc. -- are more prone to swim bladder problems than other varieties of goldfish, simply due to their body shape. I think it has to do with a degree of distortion -- I think the big stomach, and tiny back half we see in so many of these fish in some cases has altered the shape of their swim bladders, making them more susceptible.

As for how common it is, daryl does make a valid point about high nitrates and constipation. This is why peas are such a good food for goldies -- it is a natural laxative that helps clean out their system. I had 3 goldies, and lost one to advanced SBD almost a year ago. The other 2 are the same breed [Orandas] and I watch them carefully. I noticed float-y problems earlier this winter, tried a variety of foods, and as I still had the problems, I started making a gel food that is 50% peas. The float-y problems have largely gone away. They still surface from time to time, but I am waging a war with nitrates myself, and am fully convinced that is the rest of my problem.

I've never fed ProGold -- does it need to be soaked? Often times, food that's not soaked floats at the top, the fish gobble it, ingest a lot of air, and also, food that might later expand in their stomachs, thus creating a problem.

I don't think fish die OF swim bladder per se, if I can recall what the vet told me, I think the problem is, Lots of fish try to fight the swim bladder problem, ie, to swim normally, which simply puts excess strain on the body and heart. So, I guess they have mini-heart attacks, in some cases. I think. Don't quote me on that. It was a year ago I had that discussion, so ...

Hope that helps...
--Mav

Yes this is common to fancy goldfish. I read a post/article lately about chemicals being kept in the water that are beyond what we normally think of, like growth hormones. I wonder if a larger water change may help.

Over the years, problems may make it hard on older goldfish as they have been through more and swim bladder may have effected their insides which sometimes can't be reversed. Older GF's are know for this problem even more and they are also more susceptable to other problems.

It's not you, there is little you could have done to prevent this in my opinion.

Do you fast to help get rid of it? How about peas or spirulina? You might replace a large portion of his diet with spirulina to help him. He likely will always be susceptable to this so you have to treat him with added care.

I hope he gets better for you. But actually 4 years is awesome for me to hear. I hope I can be so lucky. You probably already know all the remedies, but I thought I'd add them just in case.

Good luck with everything.

Goldie is a (fancy) Fantail. She's smart and beautiful and strong. The pic in my sig is her from about 2 years ago. I appreciate your words of encouragement, Ed. That kind of talk makes me want to take action. Sometimes when tragedy strikes, I go numb. I'm a very passionate, patient and strong person. In a crisis, I'm the one holding back; being rational, but you know... It hurts and encouragement helps to make me take action. I wish there were more people like you here, Ed.

I bet she'd do better in a pond. Don't have that. Anyone think I should give her more room in her tank? Her partner (a male Fantail) has been with her since day one. Does anyone think she'd be better with our without him? More room would mean more water for her. I dunno. I thought about doing that with Spot, but didn't. He loved his little buddy, Cole. Cole was a mean little punk and Spot put up with him like a big brother. Cole is now a very affectionate and friendly fish. He's Spot's legacy. Anyhow, any thoughts on this?

Oh yeah, I did fast her when I saw this happening. I've fasted her about 4 days in the last 2 weeks. I fast all my fish along with her. I'm feeding peas tomorrow.

Aw. I wouldn't seperate them. If they've been together so long I think she'd get lonely........ and miss him. I don't think I could ever seperate my greusome twosome. They DO bond with eachother, and if you seperated them, she might just give up. If you have the resources to get another tank for both of them, go for it!! I dunno that it'd help the SBD, but they'd definetly love it. I wish you the best of luck.


Erika

Wow, I see what you mean. I think they would definatly do better a 30 gallon or whatever as all goldfish flourish with more room. Putting them togather is a good thing too. I don't know what I would do but I got myself a 72 gallon and really love it. The fish are just having a blast. I don't know your room constraints, or your budget, but yes, a bigger tank is definatly better. 55 gallons is cool too, but it depends on what you want to do.

Actually, in my opinion, until you get up to 100-200 gallon tanks, fishkeeping is a lot more worry free with more room.

Togather GF's seem happier and more lively, but my Ryukin is very active alone. I think its part of his personality, though.

If you get the new tank, you could keep them separate for treatment and then put them togather later. The sick one may like a rest anyways. It could take time but lots of Spirulina could help. Goldfish connection has specially designed stuff that a recent poster has raved about it taking care of just this same problem.

Hi,
I am so sorry to hear about your fish. Sadly, it is fairly common with fancies because of the body type.

I agree with ed586 that more space is better and could help with sbd. My fantail started floating upside down a couple of months ago. I recently moved her from a 20 gallon to a 50 gallon and she has been doing better--I have not seen her float upside down once since I put her in the 50 gallon (there are 3 goldies). So, I would say that more water helps.

When she was in the 20 gallon tank (with one other goldfish), the nitrates would hit 80ppm. I could get them down to 20ppm with a water change but they would zoom back up to 80ppm in a few days. I think that the high nitrates contributed to the floating upside down since I would see her upside right before a water change and not after.

In the larger tank, the nitrates are 10ppm and actually it is easier for me and the fish to have a larger tank.

I do feed soaked progold and soaked spiralina flakes.

I hope that I have helped a bit.

Hey, I just wanted to say that I think your comment to Daryl was completely inappropriate and uncalled for. What did she do wrong? She was answering your question and trying to help you out.

She is an extremely knowledgeable member and does not in any way give this board a bad name.

I agree. I can appreciate you are feeling upset about your fish but that is no reason to take out your temper on someone who is trying her best to help you.

As jsrtist said, Daryl is a veryknowledgeable and valued member of this board.

I feel for ya Gldfshkpr. I had to put a fish to "sleep" with severe swimbladder, a few months back, he had it for months and now he long time tank mate is getting kinda floaty now. They are both at 4 yrs old too. I havent had success trying to put him in a bigger tank, maybe from the water pressure I dont know. Every time I put him in the 55 his he goes vertical *sigh* , so I put him back in the 28. And they are both fantails too.

Might get some of those flakes to try from goldfish connection. The best success Ive had is from fasting but it doesnt last long, any time he eats now he gets flippy. I get quite frustrated as well. I cant tell you how many times I have said "You are killing me fish" lately. Good luck with your fish

I personally don't see anything wrong with complaining and if I had fish for 3 years and was loosing him, I would have trouble being measured and unbiased.

It sounded a little like gldfshkpr was being accused of lieing about the nitrates.

I thought that daryl went out of her way to suggest that this was an experienced person & that perhaps it was an equipment failure and that perhaps the person hadn't considered this.




I agree - if I were losing my fish I would have difficulty as well.

I just thought the OP response was harsh.

gldfshkpr, daryl was only trying to help. she was doing her best and i noted that she gave you a few compliments in her reply also. she recently lost a pet that was very dear to her and she was only trying to give you as much knowledge as she knew about the subject so that the same wouldnt happen to you. Daryl is a valued asset to this board and if you dont happen to like her replies, then just ignore them. but please, dont be rude to someone who was only trying their best to help you out a little.

I didn't read it that way at all and I also wondered why nitrates would be 0. In a cycled tank, there would at least be some nitrates and I would also suspect that the test kit had malfunctioned. She never inferred that he was lying.

I personally was very shocked by gldfshkprs violent reaction to Daryl. I really didn't know what to say earlier.

So many boards are ruined by bad tempers. I used to post on a board for people with hip replacements but quit because of the horrific rudeness of some people.

On this board, we work hard to keep it a friendly place. If we don't agree with something, it is best to just not respond.

Absolutely about not responding for me too.

I'm not suprised that it happens, though. People loosing a beloved pet aren't usually happy and may be blaming themselves or aren't really in "thinking" mode.

It is important to check the expiry date on the test kits, Daryl that was a very good reminder for us all.

I think constipation is fairly common, and I guess it is often mistaken for swimbladder. From what research I've read it seems swim bladder is usually a result of poor water quality, either now, or earlier on in life.




Jessica

I only have one fish out of 6 that tends to 'float' once and a while... and it's usually an hour after eating. I suspect that it's constipation. But he's a Blue Oranda and I've read that it's SBD is common because of their body shape. I have 3 orandas, a moor and weather loaches (x2). Peas tend to help. Reading this thread helped me too.... made me realize that perhaps it's just a constipation problem and not SBD after all. Hmmmmm

gldfshkpr , I hope all is better with your Tank. I'm sure you feel like you are in distres about this. I feel for ya.

I also don't judge or get in between a 'board misunderstanding', but I wouldn't judge either of you for what's posted here. You both have contributed tons to the community and I appreciate that.

Barb

Thank God somebody else said it. You guys are all cool. B)