For those of you that have read my bottom drain thread, which ended up to mostly be about my fish who've been horribly sick, here is an update.

I know that all of my fish are eating except two. I just haven't seen those two eat, but I am not sure if they are, could be? I've caught all the other's eating, by luck and sneaking up on them. They refuse to eat if anyone is close to them. They aren't very happy with me, in fact they probably hate my guts right now. But they'll get over it after they've been back in the pond for a couple of months.

I followed the proform C directions for three days, did 45% water changes every day. Proform C only asks for 25% but since I have so many large fish in 100 gallons 45% isn't really enough. I have to tell you hauling 5 gallon buckets full of water from one end of the house to the other and to the garage isn't fun! I have to fill them up in the shower in order to get the exact temp for the fish. So this is what I've been doing, since last week some time? Not sure when it started I'm just glad that it could possibly be almost over!

I am going to use prazi on them. I felt it would be best though to do it in the pond since prazi doesn't need a water change and is so expensive that I want to make sure I get everyone. I still have some little guys in the pond. Unless you all think maybe I would be okay to leave the little guys out? It certainly would be cheaper yet to do prazi in 100 gallons rather than 4,000. Suggestions? The little guys in the pond seem fine. I did proform C them as well. They are eating, and swimming around, rather cautiously because of all the net action last week, but seem fine.

The two fish that aren't eating do not look well. I am going to keep them in after I turn the others loose. I figure these two could use some extra care. I will get some pictures of them as soon as I can. The Shiro Bekko looks horrible but is swimming around okay. I bought some debride ointment to rub on both of these fish for ulcers, the ulcers haven't opened up yet but they look like they will. I have been putting melafix in the water everyday in hopes that will stop the ulcers from opening and heal them. I don't know if that will work, but it's work a shot.


So all in all after all the excitment and me being hystarical, it seems that everyone is going to be alright. I hope. Thanks for all the help that I've had thus far from KevKoi, Rob, and Andrea. It's good to have someplace to go to ask questions and great to have people that understand that a person can go crazy over some dumb old fish!

Scott

Wow, Scott, I have to tell you I admire you for keeping up all that enormous work, not to mention the amount of money the Prazi must cost for such an amount of water, to get them all well. Not everybody would do that, I am pretty sure! I can see the difference clearly between goldie keepers and koi keepers, and I can only imagine what one would go through for a highly priced koi that suddenly gets sick. Sounds like a nightmare to me!!
Your fish will be very thankful to you, even though they might not see it that way now!! Keep us posted!! And good luck to those two who look the the worst!

Update on those left in the hospital.

I went to the video store this evening to get some movies, when I got home my 15" shusui was laying under the tool box gasping!!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it. I quickly picked him up and put him back in the hospital tank. He has several cuts from his little adventure. I decided to do a water change first then first aid.

I did a 60% water change (because I have 5 large fish in 100 gallons). I then got myself three large towels, my blue tub for taking pictures with, a roll of paper towels, large bottle of hydrogen peroxide, and a tube of Debride medicated ointment. Filled the blue tub and soaked one towel. I layed the two dry towels, still folded over twice, on the floor then folded the wet towel and placed it on the dry towels. I did this to give padding incase someone flopped, and of course the wet towel (which I rung out so its basically damp) is to place the fish on while they are being doctored.

I got the Shusui out, put him in the tub, then positioned myself infront of the towels and then picked up the fish making sure to have a hand over his eyes. The fish didn't protest. I put him on the damp towel, while keeping my hand over his eyes. Padded him lightly with a paper towel, put hydrogen peroxide on all cuts on one side, then padded him a little and put ointment on. I repeated this on the other side. The fish did not flinch! I decided since this went off sooooo easy I'd do everyone else. I have two other's with one tiny ulcer each, one with two HUGE places that look like ulcers coming out, and then one that has one place with a large ulcer coming out. I did the same procedure with each fish. I had no problems, zero, everyone was calm and didn't flip or flop. NO CLOVE OIL! No putting anyone out with anything. (I was waiting to get someone to help me with this chore, I didn't want to do it myself)


I think I am going to open up my own fish clinic! I am getting good at this stuff. I am not good with the death part yet, and thank God I've only lost two thus far. I think tomorow I may put the two fish with tiny ulcers back in the pond. They really looked pretty good. Everyone else stays in the hospital for sure.

Andrea, I am an animal lover I'd do the same thing for any pet that I have. It doesn't matter to me what the cost. They depend on me. I know I am nuts and believe me everyone around me would agree with that completly.

Yes this is a nighmare and I hate it! It is more work than I bargained for. I am in hopes that the light at the end of the tunnel is just up ahead though .


thanks for the concern and I'll keep you posted.


Scott

Take a look under the scope and see if you have flukes. They are the easiest parasite too identify and can even be seen under low power. They look like a slinky without the links They contract and extend their body giving them the appearence of a slinky. If you see them, prazi everything. If you have enough too do the 4,000 gallons, do it. Prazi is one of the chems out there that is completely safe. There are not many meds that can claim that, yet be so effective.
And since the proform c is done get the salt up. .3% would be a good level too elevate them too in the next couple of days.

Looked under the scope today, didn't see anything. I put the prazi in anyway. No one is jumping and it's been in the water since noon. I am thinking that I didn't have flukes. Somewhere I read that if they have flukes the fish will jump and flash like crazy while they are getting rid of them.

The Shusui that jumped out is looking good today. The only problem today was the shiro bekko was gasping and caughing at the top of the tank this morning. I checked the perameters and was shocked to see that the Ammonia and Nitrite levels were higher than I've ever seen before. As soon as I started putting drops of the agent in the test tubes they starting changing instantly, never seen that before. They usually take at least two to three minutes before they even start to change. So I did a 90% water change, took out the fish that looked good and put them in the pond. Two fish still remain in the tank the shiro bekko and the shusui. I did the prazi shake (which sux), and put it in the tank and then shook some more up and did the pond as well. The salt level in the tank is at .12% and tomorow I'll raise it to .2%.

No one is jumping or flashing after 6 hours of prazi. Before I put the prazi in the pond I backflushed twice to make sure I wouldn't have to backflush for awhile. I also removed some sand from the filter since I still think I may have had too much in there causing extra backflushing.

All fish in the pond are eating like they did before they got sick, pigs. It is a great thing to watch after a little over a month of worry.


Scott

Wow Scott,what a relief to finally see it all winding down. You had an awful month ,and you hung in there and kept at it like a trooper! See, all your hard work and dedication is finally going to pay off,and maybe you'll finally be able to sit down,take a breath,and enjoy!!

That learning curve sure is a bi#ch.
Glad too hear things are returning too normal.

Hi Scott, I am new to this board but have to say you have had quite a situation going on. I hope all is well. I redid my pond 3 times and would do it again if I could but am running out of room. Would post pics but can't yet. I don't want to sound dumb but doesn't anyone use PP anymore? I do it at least once and sometimes twice a year and its the bomb. There are probably newer things out there but it works great and my fish are doing wonderful. They are spawning like mad right now and its driving me nuts. I really need to get rid of some of them as much as I hate to but I don't want to risk the rest. I have duplicates of some so I can afford to. Good luck with your friends

Ice,


Well this might sound even dumber but what is pp? Is it Potassium? If so that stuff scares me. I did use it this year because i was so desperate and it pushed my largest (18 inches) butterfly over the edge. If I'm not mistaken Proform C followed by Prazi is a much better way to go. It's more expensive but that is what I am going to do from now on instead. I am still learning so what I say may not be true, don't hold it against me .

I hate getting rid of the babies. I don't trust anyone with them LOL. It looks like this year I am going to have to because I have too many fish as well.


Scott

My large Shiro Bekko (the one in the hospital tank or ISU) is swimming around fine, but.... She seems to be healing, the place where there is no scales has new white skin over it and attatched to this skin is what looks like a cotton ball? Is this something I should be concerned about does anyone know? It just looks like a white cotton ball. The salt is now at .3%


Scott

Hi Scott, I work very close with Carl Forss from Keirin Koi and they always recomend more salt. I would give them a phone call. They are exceptional in the koi desease department. Call and talk to Steve Morelli. He is their senior biologist and has not directed me wrong yet. Look them up on the net or Toll-free 1-888-4-KEIRIN. Sounds like a fungas problem or maybe columnaris. As I said before I am NOT an expert but have been through this a long time ago and learned a lot of stuff. Mostly from Keirin Koi. I submitted a photo for pic of the week. Lets see if they post it. Good Luck. I would be more careful who I cut loose in the pond till you are sure it is not contaigous.

I LOVE KEIRIN KOI! No I've never been there, and I've never delt with them but I enjoy looking at the fish they have for sale. Of course they haven't added any new fish to their site in quite a few months! This sounds like a job for my microscope as well! I was thinking it was just part of the healing process. Tomorow I'll call them but I'll also do a scope and I did get some neocide so I figured I'd do the Doc Johnson 'shake and bakr' on her also. Thanks Ice for the info and advice.

Scott

No problem Scott,
I am waiting for a call from him as we speak. They are not real fast at posting new stuff right away as they have so many I dare not take any form of payment with me when I know I am only going to look Its dangerously close to me )15 min away) and I could blow a paycheck there in a heartbeat. Seriously they have some incredible fish at truely affordable prices. Don't let their web page scare you. Steve Morelli is the best Bioligist I have ever met. (Thats saying alot as my son in law is a marine biologist as well). He knows his stuff inside and out and can recite it in his sleep. Yes please do call them and tell them I sent you (Nancy)