Okay, I posted most of this in the "Treating with Amquel" topic, but here is the story (short version)

I had a bit of a catastrophe with my tank the first go round. I had it overpopulated and not yet cycled! The result is pretty evident - total loss. My stupidity and "newbie" intelligence (i.e. lack thereof).

I then cleaned everything (due to Ick and stuff) and started again. I had the tank going (for about 3 weeks at 80 deg F) and got a single Lionhead to help the cycle. That didn't work!

But I did not go back to square one. With the tank beginning to cycle prorperly with the residue he had left behind, I did daily water testing (no H2O changes). With the following results using TetraTest kits:

My NH3/4 (Ammonia) spiked and then gradually went to zero
N02 (Nitrites) went to 1.6, maybe plus a little, then started to come down and leveled out at the 1.6
N03 (Nitrates) went to about 50 at the highest now.

So, I could not wait any longer and I went and got a fish this past weekend, and now I have two in there (25 GAL Tank).

Ammonias are staying down, but NITRITES have not changed (decreased much at all) - still 1.6 before treatment, and NITRATES are staying steady (25-50). I was tring to control the NITRITES with filter cleaning (Millenium 2000), and water changes (20-30%), but it isn't working for the NITRITES. So......I started the AM-QUEL + Treatments. I have been doing them for the last 2 days, and when I test afterward using the TetraTest kits, NITRITES are down to .8 (so it only cuts them back by 1/2 I guess), and Ammonia and NITRATES are down to near nothing.

Any advice on this? Will the Nitrobacter Bacteria take a hold now? Have I doomed these two little guys by being too anxious to get fish in the tank? I guess the Am-Quel+ will not hurt them, but how can I help them get through this? Is salt the answer?? If so, how much/how often? No signs of sickness or anything yet, so they seem to be weathering it okay. But I thought I would ask since I saw this topic and I am using the same product to help control the situation here.

THANKS!!! Standing by for advice!

certain things you can't push.. best leave it to mother nature and you can only control water quality..

I will leave the filter alone.. dun wash it out.... add some salt of 0.1% concentration (1 teaspoon per gallon) to reduce the effect of nitrIte on the fish.. and reduce feeding.. change 20% of water if necessary... and remove any rotting food or floating leaf..

that's all.. simple.. maybe one more thing to add.. patience.. mother nature doesn't like to be rushed.. she will take the goldfish with her instead..

cheers

Keep up the water changes, twice a day if you need to. Use Amquel+ when you must, and skip feeding the fish for a couple of days. Then, just give them a flake or two for a couple of days.

Are you also using NovAqua? I hope so. Or, Prime can take the place of both, and is less expensive per gallon treated.

To protect your fish from the nitrites, please *do* add salt, 1tsp/gal. Don't let it get stronger than that while you're doing all those water changes and replacing evaporated water.

The 2 most important things: (1) Never ever ever add another fish too early just because you get smitten with each other at the store. (2) Do as I say, not as I do. (I have to stay out of fish stores for the duration of cycling, or I'll get myself and a poor fish or two into trouble.)

Good luck,
Caroline in San Jose

I did add some salt last night (6 tsp), so that means I need to add another 19 tsp tonight (25 gal tank). I will back off on the feeding, and I have been doing the water changes as I said. I will stop cleaning the filter element (blue fuzzy part with the Charcoal inside). I will vacuum up any left over food and stuff like that, but the wtaer is really clean and clear looking.

Should I also vacuum the rocks good? Or leave them alone in case that is where some of the bacteria are residing (and I realy need them to populate!!)???

"Use AMQUEL+ when I must", I'm not sure how I would know! I think I have been, if it gets to 1.6 (Red water in the test vial) I have used the AMQUEL and as I said it brings it back to about .8 (orange water in the test vial) on the next test. Maybe 12 hours later, it is back to 1.6 again. In fact, the next darkness level with the TetraTest kits is just a deep red and that reading is 3.3-33mg/l!! Jesus!!!! That's a pretty big swath of a reading! Maybe I just don't understand and there is not that much difference (where the fish are concerned) between 3.3 and 33, but it sure seems liek a lot to me! I hope my test never comes out that color!!

Since the AMQUEL treatment is supposed to be 1 tsp per 10 gal every 24 hours, I was trying to get by with .5 tsp per 10 gal every 12 hours. I mean, the total was the same, but I was giving it in the evening and in the morning. Maybe I should give it all in the morning (if needed) and do the water changing and cleaning stuff in the evening?? I just didn't want them in water getting really bad, and then once every 24 hours it get's nice for them, and then gradually back to bad, etc. I was trying to cut that whole "up and down" stuff to a minimum. Maybe I should just go witht he 24 hour treatment cycle??

I know, I do need to not go to the stores! I'm new at this though, my wife and I, and it's just tough seing a really cool fish and not getting it now thaty we have this nice tank and all! Oh well, hopefully all this works.

Thanks for the advice folks, we need all the help we can get! Actually, someone need so save my fish from me!!! I feel so bad, so stupid, and so behind the power curve! Kids do better with fish than I am!!!!

Change enough water to get your toxins down to (temporarily) tolerable levels. Overdose with the Amquel+ to temporarily keep the levels down for a few hours until the next change. (That overdose is less apt to be toxic than ammonia or nitrite.)

For example, in a crisis in which I had done a 30% water change in the morning, and maybe again in the evening, and still had high toxins, I would add enough Amquel+ to bring the ammonia or nitrite down to tolerable levels. (The bottle says how many ppm the "standard dose" will make nontoxic. You might need more than the standard dose.)

Caveat: If you are not also using NovAqua, keep an eye on the pH. Maybe Amquel+ isn't supposed to affect that--I don't remember--but my pH dropped too far when I was using lots more than the usual amount of Amquel+ without NovAqua.

I'd regularly vacuum up the worst debris on the top of the gravel, but not do a thorough gravel cleaning. Get the gunk that's big enough to see on the surface, but don't sift down through the gravel to get every spec. (Once you're cycled, you can do a more thorough cleaning regularly.)

Hope this makes sense. My brain already went to bed without me tonight.

Caroline

Salt is all in, and AMQUEL+ treatment reduced to 1/2 of the normal amount. We'll see how it goes. I have onl;y been changing water once/day, and right at 25% at that time. I guess I could switch to changing the water twice/day, and then maybe use less AMQUEL treatment. Going into the weekend, we'll see how it goes when I have a chance to watch them a little closer throughout the day.

Mahalo for all the help! I'll try to post any updates.

Over the weekend:

• I have done 10-25% water changes in the morning and the evening both (in my 25 gal tank).
• I have kept the salt content at 1tsp/gal.
• I have not added anymore AMQUEL+
• I cut back on the feeding, just gave them a couple flakes each, and a couple of the pellets. They gobbled!!!!
• Levels are as follows: NH3/4 - Near 0 (+ a little); NO2 - 1.6 before H2O changes and .8 afterwards; NO3 - 25-50.

So, the Nitrite levels are holding steady, they are not getting any worse, but they are not getting any better yet.

No signs of stress, no ick or anything else forming (that I have noticed. The salt is probably helping to reduce the effects of the Nitrites.

Whatelse should I do? Or si there nothing to but wait for the second bunch of nitrifying bacteria to take a hold?

This high NITRITE level thing is kicking my @$$!!! I have done everything you folks have suggested and it has not gotten any better! On the other hand, it has not gotten any worse either. Not blaming anyone, just really frustrated at this point and wondering what else to do to help the water chemistry, or if waiting is the best I can do???

Here is the current status:

• NH3/4 = .25 mg/l and I am testing for that every other day or so
• N02 = 1.6 mg/l at every test, and a 25% -33% H2O change and maybe an AMQUEL+ treatment of 1-2 tsp (25 gal tank) brings that down to .8 or less
• NO3 25-50 mg/l on initial tests, am only testing this every other day or so as well.

I cut back on feeding for a few days, but am back to feeding once per day, just not a lot of food (they gobble everything pretty quick).

What else can I do now?? The NITRITES will not stay down. I'm not sure but what all this water changing has had some affect on the bacteria colonies, and the tank is not going to ever cycle as along as I keep it up. I cut back on the AMQUEL+ use, but now I am not sure that was the right thing to do.

Fish still look healthy though, so that's another good sign

Standing by for any additional advice! THANKS again folks! I am sure you can sense my stress and anguish. I know that you all will give me the best advice available, I'm just frustrated and I do not want to lose my two little ones! THANKS again!!!

You could maybe try NitraZorb, it worked well for my nitrates, it says it does ammonia and nitrite too. NitraZorb

If you get it make sure you rinse it

Well, I am still battling the NITRITE level. This morning levels were as follows:

• NH3/4: .25, and it was 0 last night after the 20% water change
• NO2: almost 1.6 (just a little less) and it was .8 last night after the water change.
• N03: 50 this morning, 25 last night after the water change
• PH: 8, holding steady right there.

I have done the following:

• I have actually been able to decrease the water changes now to 10-20% down from the 30% I was changing.
• I am not adding any AMQUEL+ now either.
• I am still doing the 10-20%, twice a day.
• I am also still doing reduced feeding.
• I have also kept the salt content throughout the water changes at 1 tsp/gal equivalent.
• Additionally, I have added the initial treatment of Fritz-Zyme Nitrifying Bacteria, for a 25 gal tank (10oz), and have added another 2-4oz at a time during the water changes. I think the NITRITE eating stuff is taking hold!
• I have also cut back on cleaning (rinsing off) the carbon filter element in my Millenium 2000 Filter as someone suggested.

ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS AT THIS POINT?? THANKS again, so much ofr all of your help so far!!

Still looking for input? The tank is pretty much holding steady. Waer temp is around 78-81 24/7. The tank has been going for over 1 month now, and the two fish have been in there for at least the last two weeks of that! Why is the cycle not steadying out?

Just a thought.....

Have you tested your water directly from the tap? Could your water source be adding nitrite?

Daryl, this post was from back in April