Hi,
My lionhead Sir Salmon appears to be getting worse with fin rot and I am worried. His caudal fin is now affected - there are whitish marks on the tips. Also the pectoral fin is now split. He is in a 20 gallon tank with one other fish who is fine.

Water: I had stupidly removed all the filter material a few weeks back in one of my filters thinking that there were still enough good bacteria in the tank. I was wrong. The water had ammonia, and nitrites in it last week. Now, the water is better but not ideal. There were small amounts of nitrites and nitrates (water tester slightly pick). Ammonia was almost 0. I did a water change. I don't think the water is perfect yet.

Treatment I've done over past little while:
I had treated with Coppersafe and 2 rounds of Maracyn 11. I have since done a 25% water change after the treatment ended on Saturday. I added aquarium salt.

Since yesterday, things look worse, not better. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!
Should I just wait for the water to improve over the next week or will that be too late?
Should I treat with Maracyn 2 again? I fear do nothing!

Thanks, Lisa


I hade

I heard that coppersafe doesn't work that great so I took mine back. Then I salted to 0.3% which is 3 tsp per gallon or 3 TBS per 5 gallons. It's got to be that high apparently or it does no good. Another 25% water change couldn't hurt. If you do another water change, make sure you add more salt for the water taken out.

Could you test all the parameters and post them here? I'm testing almost every day until I get mine back to perfect...I did the exact same thing you did with the filter.

Keep us posted!

Thanks for your reply!


I added more aquarium salt. I can't say I am entirely sure now how much is in the tank, I can't remember what I added before. I believe I have at a therapeutic level, not sure.
So it should be 1 tbsp (or 3 tsp) per gallon or 3 TBsp /5 gallon (those don't seem to add up?)


I had added Prime to the water too.

Water is close to perfect but not. I use Hagan testing kits in Canada:

Ph about 7.8
Ammonia 0.1 mg/L
Nitrates 5mg l/L
Nitrites 0.1 mg/L

Question: Should I treat with Maracyn 2 again, or just add salt as I did and just wait? Or anything else?

Thanks again to anyone who can help, Lisa

Help!
Now he's starting to have floating trouble for the first Time!! Is is swimming with head down, tail up. I don't have any peas around.

Please help, thanks, Lisa

Thanks, I jsut noticed a bit of redness at the bottom of his fins. Boy, things seem to be changing fast. What about the trouble swimming normally now?
So it sounds like I should focus on clean water and waiting as opposed to adding Maracyn again. I didn't think the water was that bad, but it isn't 0. I will add the carbon back in.

If anyone has any other suggestions, that would help! Thanks,
Lisa

Martinez, it may have been me who told you that. I recall once making an analogy along the lines of treating the flu in a room filled with poisonous gas - how the flu isn't the biggest problem, and you're not going to feel better, even with meds, until you get out of that room. If it wasn't me you heard it from - well, it's still a great analogy!

Lisa, I would hold off treating with water meds until your water quality is better. You want to be able to change as much of the water as often as necessary to keep it healthy, and people tend to let the water go longer than they should when they've got meds in the tank. Definitely keep some salt in the tank, both to protect from the nitrites and to help with opportunistic bacteria. Add it slowly to keep your developing bacteria from being shocked. Dissolve the salt first and do not pour it directly in your filter, or near the filter uptake. 3 Tbsp per 5 gal is about .3%, and that's the doseage you're going for here. Try to be relatively sure of how much salt you have in the water before you add more. Too much salt will only stress your fish more.

The redness on his fins may just be from the water quality. If it progresses and definitely looks bacterial, but your water conditons aren't in good shape for medicating yet, you can take your fish out and swab the areas with iodine (or PP, HP, etc.), then blot dry and apply antibiotic cream if you have some. Cream works better than ointment, if you have the stuff with pain relievers that's alright, and if it comes off in the water and they eat it, that's fine, so don't worry. I would probably try swabbing first anyway, even if your water quality is good. Water meds may disrupt your cycle, even once it's completed, and perfect water goes a long way towards helping fish heal.

Poor water quality can cause a lot of your fish's other symptoms (ragged/whitish spots, split fins, boyancy problems), so try not to worry too much just yet. Your fish has been through a lot lately with the poor water conditions and stress of medicating.

I assume neither of these fish are especially new arrivals?

Good luck.

It showed up as a link! That's no good.

Let's try again.

Thank you both for your excellent information -- I really appreciate it.

I struggle with wanting to medicate - thinking, if I don't, I'm just not doing anything. I really hear what you are saying though. I will do a water change and add sald. I wish I knew exactly how much salt I put it at this point.

If things don't improve, should I consider getting medicated food as a possible treatment (medigold)? Maracyn 2 doesn't seem to eliminate the problem.

And yes, Happy Goldfish, I have had Sir Salmon for over a year so he/she is not new to the tank.

Thanks, Lisa

Oh, I meant to ask, about swabbing.

How do you remove a goldfish from the tank to swab it? I would think that would be impossible to do and perhaps way to stressful (for the fish as well as me

Lisa

How long have you had the other fish?

I would personally choose not to feed medicated food it unless I really thought it was necessary. I can't see how bad his fins look, so you'll have to decide whether or not something is needed. Swabbing would definitely help if fungus and/or bacteria are a problem, and if it doesn't look too bad and he doesn't have any open sores, I'd probably leave it at that. Medicated food may or may not help, but feeding it will lower your fish's own defenses.

I bought both of them -- Sir Salmon and Calimari (a fantail) in November 2002 so I've that them almost 1 1/2 years. Right now Calimari is in the tank with the sick fish.

I will buy medicated food, just to have on hold, but will see how things go. You may hear from me again Lisa

HappyGoldfish,

What kind of antibiotic cream can you use on a fish if I end up doing it? Do you mean something like polysporin?

Thanks, LIsa

I have changed the water again. The water is getting close to being perfect. My fish is doing worse!! A lump has developed on the left side.

Should I start treating with something now?????? It is hard to do nothing. He is floating much of the time - top down. I don't know if constipation is occuring as well. He did eat a pea this morning. Now won't eat.

Lisa

Here's how I hold my dudes. I picked a smaller one to show
how to cradle them. Make sure to hold them over the water
incase they flop out of your hand. Use a kleenex or paper
towel to blot the are dry. Then use a Qtip with either the
iodine or HP and apply to the affected area only once. Make
sure to not get any into the eyes or gill area. Let it dry for 15
seconds, dunk fish, then reblot and apply the cream. I use
neosporin + pain relief cream. Then slowly lower back
into the tank. When first bringing the fish out, you may get
a tail or two of water flung at in you defiance. <_< Let them
get the protest over before doing any work on them. The first
time will be more nerve racking on you.


Does the lump look like a pimple? Any chance of a pic? Those
always help!

Thanks pm94 and the rest!!

The lump is a big bump near his gill, not a pimple at all. It seems to be growing from within with no discolouration. No scales are sticking out. Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera to show. He did eat some peas a few hours ago but is spending a lot of time with face down, tail up. I haven't noticed a progression of the fin rot. But he is a mess! (His so cute with a chubby face - it's tough to see him sick, you know///

When should I start treatment and with what? I will continue to do a water change. There was still a small amount of ammonia in the water and trace ammounts of nitrites and nitrates (eg. 0.1) . I do use Prime in the water.

It's possible the bump might be related to the water quality. I'm
thinking you should be ok to do the swab and cream method.
Just keep working on bringing the water params in check. I'm
not sure what to do about the bump at the moment. If it should
happen to open up, you can do the swab and cream for that as
well. But, hopefully getting the water in good condition will help
bring it down.

Keep posting with any developments.

Ok I'm not happygoldfish, but I know if you use a topical cream, you will most likely want to use Neosporin, or Panalog. You can get Neosporin at the drugstore, and Panalog you will have to get from a vet.

Jessica

Hi,
Thanks Jessica and everyone! I really appreciate the help.

The big bump on Sir Salmon is much bigger.

I changed water. I managed to get him out with a little net to swab him. I didn't know they stopped moving.
I just swabbed the bump and the tip of his effected fins with Iodine and then Panalog. He is back in the water swimming rather clumsily. Still floats head to the bottom a lot of the time. I have a few peas in the water. He ate a little.

What happens next? Do I swab again tomorrow? If anyone has any idea about this big bump above his gill. He looks very defomed on this side. It may be a tumor I suspect.

Lisa

The cream you can do every day, the swab only once. How
are the water params coming along? Any improvements on
the head down, tail up? What temp is your tank at?

I haven't come across to much for what your bump may be.
I have found that your not suppose to pop it though. Keep
us updated, I'm still looking for info.

My fish is MUCH WORSE!
Since I swabbed, the fins look worse (he looked better before I did it). He is very weak. He was stuck in a plant, hanging upside down. The bump looks more pronounced and sharp now. He floats head down
I have been changing water everyday. I will check the water again right now. The water has been close to ).

I really really think something should be started ???

I have tetracycline on hand and Maracyn 1. I am waiting for my medigold food to be shipped

I don't know what to do!
Lisa

Re: he is MUCH WORSE
Just to add,
Out of "desperation" I added Tetracycline to the water to see if it may help.

The bump looks like something white is underneath and breaking through perhaps.

hi, i was just reading, and i am by no means an expert.. on anything... goldfish included.. but

i have read that a Ph too high can cause fin splitting. I didnt see your Ph level in you posts (perhaps i missed it?)
if the Ph is in your normal range (rememver that an increase in Ph level thats comfortable to your fish would be high and a reading of 8.0+ would be high for any goldfish)

then i would treat with an antibiotic.
Maracyn I does say it treats for Fin and Tail rot, as does Maracyn II.. One treats gram neg bacteria and one gram pos. The Mardel package also states that these 2 meds can be used together..

my opinion.. i would do this... (remember it is my opinion)
if you only have the Maracyn I.. start it. Keep a note on when started and your amount (Maracyn I you add more the first day, but Maracyn II you add same doseage) And try to get the MaracynII when you next can.)

I would also suggest that you run the treatment for an entire 10 days. (even though the package says 5) Just like in humans.. be sure to finish all the medicine dosages, even if there is an improvement.

My Little Fish had what i thought was fungus and i treated with fungus eliminator, when no improvement after the instructionsand she developed fin splitting and red streaks, i treated for bacterial. i dont know if it was gram pos or neg, but running the 2 maracyns together knocked it out.
(she is in a smaller tank, and i would do water changes Before i added the medicine for that day.)
It is frustrating when you dont know what to do, but in my opinion, where your water levels are near perfect i would get some meds into the fish.

I hope things go well -Tooter

i missed that you added TC (i may have been typing.. sorry)
Disregard my post.

i do believe though, that your fish has some sort of bacerial infection.
Remove charcoal when medicating.

-Toot

Thanks Tooter,
I had tried Maracyn 1 and 2 before and it didn't seem to help but I am open to any suggestion. I jumped ahead and added Tetracycline out of desperation really.

The Ph is around 7.8. There is still slight ammonia in the water 0.1 -it is taking forever to go to 0. I have done water changes everyday this week.

It isn't looking good

i saw that you had added the Maracyn II in the beginning of the post. Did you run the 2 together?

ok. do you still have your disease chart that came with the maracyn.

"Fish appears sluggish, hiding, not eating, or may have swollen body or red spots, red streaks or bleeding on body area."

That is for a bacterial infection..
Septicemia can cause red streaks on the bid, ulcers may also be present. Do you think the lump may be and ulcer forming?

it does state though, that tetracycline would treat tail and fin rot.

just another 2 cents.

My Sir Salmon seems to be improving slowing on the Tetracycline over the past 2 days!!!! The bump looked smaller. He is eating. His fins look horrible (it had spread to all of them after I used a q-tip, go figure??) but I think they are improving.

I JUST received Medigold in the mail. For those of you in the know, should I just start feeding him Medigold and stop the Tetracycline??? This is all new to me

And thanks for all the help so far - very nice!!!

I would continue the tetracycline for the minimum number of days directed, or you might wind up with some resistant germs. (Besides, it seems to be helping, right?)

And I would also start ASAP with the Medigold. With MediKoi, you're to use it--and no other foods--for a full 7 to 10 days to avoid creating resistant germs. MediGold is the same, true?

Good luck!