[Acupunk]

After what happened with Lulu, I am worried about pinworms now. I have four fish in quarantine that I got from Tommy's large outdoor pools. He did tell me that the pools are kept at 0.3% all the time, if that makes any difference. They are currently in QT at my house in 0.3% salt and prazi. Anyway, I would rather be safe than sorry, particularly because Scrappy is still thin and is not putting on weight as fast as I would like.

I have the following meds on hand:

• Metromeds
  
• Jungle Antiparasite
  
• Medigold
  
• Mediworm is on the way (I ordered it in haste this morning before Trinket told me that it will not kill pinworms).

Which, if any, of these meds is appropriate to preventatively address a potentially pinworm infested fish?

[hi-d]

here is a link hun, to the jungle anti parasite food

http://www.drsfoster...fm?pCatId=12788

scroll down to the info about the anti parasite food ,I belive the last ingrediant (lavamisole)is what takes care of the worms :hug when I used the prazi it was the 3rd day I saw the worms out in the water

This post has been edited by hi-d: 30 June 2008 - 03:33 PM

[Corrie]

Kristen, why wouldn't you just mix some of the prazi powder or flubendazole in the gel food?

[Acupunk]

Corrie, on Jun 30 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

Kristen, why wouldn't you just mix some of the prazi powder or flubendazole in the gel food?

It is my understanding, based on Trinket's comments in Heidi's thread, that prazi will not kill pinworms. I am not familiar with flubendazole.

[Corrie]

That's what prazi is for, round worms, hook worms, pin worms, ring worms, etc.

Ok, don't laugh, but I'll give you a recipe that does not involve drugs, and works.

You like garlic? your fish will
I swear, they did not come from China and Japan, they came from Italy.

Put about a cup of water in the blender.
Add four big garlic cloves, just the wet part no paper.

make it a liquid, takes a while

You can't heat the garlic, it will destroy what you need to work.

heat just enough water to make the gel melt - a thick paste

let it cool until it's almost gunking up on you.

Add just enough of the garlic juice to make up the difference

Garlic is a very good anti-microbial and anti-helminth, and it works.

[Pixiefish]

Just lost a very long reply which vanished from my keyboard!!
Here's the short version.

Prazi (ingredient of Mediworm) won't treat pinworms which are nematodes;

"That's what prazi is for, round worms, hook worms, pin worms, ring worms, etc."

These are all nematodes. Prazi is only effective for cestodes and trematodes ( tapeworms and flukes).

For pinworms, either Levamisol or Piperazine are suitable treatments.

Although the Jungle food contains some Levamisol, its main ingredient is Metro which is an antibiotic which works for Hexamita but is a very heavy-duty treatment to use as a prophylactic.

You can get a Piperazine Dewormer food here
http://rockymountain...medications.htm
scroll down for 'Dewormer'. Both Piperazine and Levamisol treat by paralyzing.

Flubendazole and Fenbendazole (variations of same drug group) are also effective wormers but sometimes hard to dose accurately and can be detrimental for goldfish under such circumstances. These drugs are especially good for Camallanus and Capillaria and are starvers (prevent nutritional uptake in the parasite)

Summary:
Nematodes or Roundworms: Best treated with Fenbendazole, Piperazine, or Levimasole.
(most common are camillanus and capillaria - Camillanus can often be seen hanging out of the fish's anus.)

Cestodes (Tapeworms) Best treated with praziquantel food.

Monogenean trematodes (flukes) : Best treated with water borne Praziquantel.

Flagellates, (Hexamita or Sprironucleus) In intestinal tract. Best treated with metronidazole.



Is it just the lack of growth that has you worried or are there other symptoms? White, slimey castings, for instance? Have you treated with Prazi at all, yet? Flukes can also slow growth.

[hi-d]

the worms coming out of LuLu were very noticable and there was ALOT of them probably years worth and Lulu was not at all skinny I assume she had them for a while I would be more worried of the tape worm which thank God prazi takes care of..I think your fish are ok sweetie :heart ..the ones you got from the stock ponds were probably more looked after than the one at the lfs..but if deworming can't hurt then I would do it hun :hug

This post has been edited by hi-d: 30 June 2008 - 09:14 PM

[Acupunk]

Pixiefish, on Jun 30 2008, 09:34 PM, said:

Is it just the lack of growth that has you worried or are there other symptoms? White, slimey castings, for instance? Have you treated with Prazi at all, yet? Flukes can also slow growth.

Thanks for your detailed reply, Pixie. Yes, I am ten days into a two week Prazi treatment (Aqua Prazi every 72 hours). This seems to have helped Winston feel MUCH perkier, so clearly he was infested with flukes. I have seen several white, slimely castings in the QT tank. I have not seen who is passing them -- they mostly appear during the night and are floating in the tank in the AM.

So it is reassuring that I have not seen any worms in the tank after prazi treatment?

Do you recommend against using the Jungle Antiparasite medication? I don't know if I am overreacting here or not. It was very distressing for us all to see what happened to Lulu.

[Quasi]

Pixiefish, on Jun 30 2008, 06:34 PM, said:

Just lost a very long reply which vanished from my keyboard!!
Here's the short version.

Prazi (ingredient of Mediworm) won't treat pinworms which are nematodes;

"That's what prazi is for, round worms, hook worms, pin worms, ring worms, etc."

These are all nematodes. Prazi is only effective for cestodes and trematodes ( tapeworms and flukes).

For pinworms, either Levamisol or Piperazine are suitable treatments.

Although the Jungle food contains some Levamisol, its main ingredient is Metro which is an antibiotic which works for Hexamita but is a very heavy-duty treatment to use as a prophylactic.

You can get a Piperazine Dewormer food here
http://rockymountain...medications.htm
scroll down for 'Dewormer'. Both Piperazine and Levamisol treat by paralyzing.

Flubendazole and Fenbendazole (variations of same drug group) are also effective wormers but sometimes hard to dose accurately and can be detrimental for goldfish under such circumstances. These drugs are especially good for Camallanus and Capillaria and are starvers (prevent nutritional uptake in the parasite)

Summary:
Nematodes or Roundworms: Best treated with Fenbendazole, Piperazine, or Levimasole.
(most common are camillanus and capillaria - Camillanus can often be seen hanging out of the fish's anus.)

Cestodes (Tapeworms) Best treated with praziquantel food.

Monogenean trematodes (flukes) : Best treated with water borne Praziquantel.

Flagellates, (Hexamita or Sprironucleus) In intestinal tract. Best treated with metronidazole.



Is it just the lack of growth that has you worried or are there other symptoms? White, slimey castings, for instance? Have you treated with Prazi at all, yet? Flukes can also slow growth.

Pixiefish: Is the explanation you just gave pinned anywhere? Because this is really usefull info :exactly

This post has been edited by Quasi: 01 July 2008 - 05:31 AM

[Trinket]

Good idea Quasi. I just pinned it :exactly

[Acupunk]

Thanks, Pixie. I just ordered the Dewormer from Rocky Mountain Discus. It sounds like it is a bath treatment (added to the water rather than fed)? If so, will it adversely affect my biological filter? If not, I think I will treat all my tanks just to be safe -- is this medication gentle enough to do that? I assume that I should proceed with feeding my fish their normal diet?

[Pixiefish]

Hi Kristen - I'm sorry I'm so late to answer but have been off until now.

The Piperazine is safe to use and is effective. Used in the water it kills any nematode eggs expelled in feces. It should also be mixed with food in order to purge the worms from inside. You can soak your food in it prior to feeding. Just follow the instructions on the box.
I think this is the best next step for you; the Prazi will treat your flukes and you can also use the Mediworm (prazi food) from Rick, once it arrives, to be sure of catching any possible tapeworms inside. Use them in sequence rather than together.
I think the Jungle P food would probably be overkill, as you have a very effective, non-toxic, 'catch all' for worms between the Prazi and Piperazine.
Hexamita is the only thing the Jungle food would deal with that these other treatments won't, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that from what you've said.
Keep us posted.